If I was Boris

[Matesrates]

I’d say sod it and get out, he’s got plenty of money, so why put up with all the hassle, and it’s going to get worse.

The decision to end legal restrictions will come back to bite him and he may well have to reimpose some. Let’s face it, he probably knew in the last two weeks when cases were spiralling and scientists were warning of catastrophe, that he should have extended again, but he would have faced a monumental backlash, so instead, he abdicated responsibility and put the onus on businesses.

The NI protocol will raise its head again in October when the grace period ends and the warnings are that sausages will be the least of his problems.

Then there’s the economy. Massive amounts of cash are going to need to be found to pay off debt and that can only mean one thing, tax rises. Very unpopular with everyone.

There’ll be more unemployment and business failures as government financial help ends, so why on earth would he or anyone else want to stick around and face criticism from all quarters.

 

[Tangerinemoss]

If writing that book about Shakespeare instead of going to Cobra meetings is true, he doesn't have much money, it has all gone on divorce settlements and paying for his numerous sprigs.

The rest of your post is so true, we are in for a bumpy ride even without Covid.

 

[poolseasider]

Nope he's doing exactly the right thing herd immunity through the back door let's face it the double jabbed ain't stopping people getting Covid thousands every day are catching the virus despite being vaccinated.

Time to crack on and learn to live with the virus it isn't going anywhere.

 

[rockontommy]

If I were Boris, I definitely wouldn't have seeded that eco loon but life is just a series of chaotic moments I suppose. Better to regret the things you do than the things you don't do imho

 

[Scaramanga]

I can see us back in lockdown by September. The excuse will be something along the lines of, well it appears the vaccination programme hasn’t worked, it seems the virus is evolving quicker than we can vaccinate. Lockdown to save Christmas.

 

[rockontommy]

I can see us back in lockdown by September. The excuse will be something along the lines of, well it appears the vaccination programme hasn’t worked, it seems the virus is evolving quicker than we can vaccinate. Lockdown to save Christmas.

If they did, some people would lap it up. Unfortunately, at this stage, it has now become quite difficult to find anyone who hasn't become a brain damaged **.

 

[Shandypants]

If they did, some people would lap it up. Unfortunately, it has now become quite difficult to find anyone who hasn't become a brain damaged **.

What a strange response. You interpret people's concern about rising cases and then translate this to people lapping it up? That's got to in the top ten talking bollocks moments of AVFTT and you can't even blame being pissed.

 

[Adams Kebab]

I can see us back in lockdown by September. The excuse will be something along the lines of, well it appears the vaccination programme hasn’t worked, it seems the virus is evolving quicker than we can vaccinate. Lockdown to save Christmas.

Pencil it in for the October half-term.

 

[L’étranger]

If I was Johnson I’d have several children with different mothers, refuse to acknowledge their existence and then preach to the nation how ‘personal responsibility’ will get us through this crisis.

 

[rockontommy]

What a strange response. You interpret people's concern about rising cases and then translate this to people lapping it up? That's got to in the top ten talking bollocks moments of AVFTT and you can't even blame being pissed.

Why should I care about the concerns of brain damaged twats again? And do you really think I've never been pissed on a Friday morning before?

 

[Matesrates]

I can see us back in lockdown by September. The excuse will be something along the lines of, well it appears the vaccination programme hasn’t worked, it seems the virus is evolving quicker than we can vaccinate. Lockdown to save Christmas.

The excuse/reason being given now, is not only rising cases which could lead to a nasty mutation, but young people who haven’t been vaccinated getting long Covid.

 

[Scaramanga]

The excuse/reason being given now, is not only rising cases which could lead to a nasty mutation, but young people who haven’t been vaccinated getting long Covid.

That’s today’s excuse mates, I’m talking about the potential for further down the line. Let’s be honest, it changes weekly at the moment.

 

[Adams Kebab]

The excuse/reason being given now, is not only rising cases which could lead to a nasty mutation, but young people who haven’t been vaccinated getting long Covid.

There will always be an excuse.

 

[Matesrates]

Remember, Boris is a libertarian at heart, he doesn’t like rules, or imposing them on others and that’s the reason we are where we are. He didn’t want to lockdown, or to close borders at any stage throughout this pandemic, and that has led to the high level of cases and deaths. Plus he’s under pressure from many MPs who themselves are under pressure from businesses in their area to get rid of all restrictions. On the other side, he’s got pressure from the WHO and our own scientists and medical organisations to impose restrictions again.

 

[poolseasider]

Pencil it in for the October half-term.

Brilliant when all the adult population has had 2 jabs might as well say now the vaccine doesn't work.

The campaign will be not save our NHS but save our vaccine.

 

[gjr69]

Johnson hasn't got plenty of money, that's why he has to try to blag free stuff all the time off people that do.
He will go soon enough, he is only doing the job because of the money it can bring him in the future and the boost it gave his ego.
He himself said it was ridiculous him being the PM but then reassured himself that it was no more ridiculous than anything his recent Eton contemporaries had done in politics.
The Eton boys know that them running the country is ridiculous when they have so little knowledge of it, when will the majority of the UK population come to the same realisation!!

 

[1966_and_all_that]

Why should I care about the concerns of brain damaged twats again? And do you really think I've never been pissed on a Friday morning before?

The evidence is starting to mount up.

 

[tommytwojags]

Johnson hasn't got plenty of money, that's why he has to try to blag free stuff all the time off people that do.
He will go soon enough, he is only doing the job because of the money it can bring him in the future and the boost it gave his ego.
He himself said it was ridiculous him being the PM but then reassured himself that it was no more ridiculous than anything his recent Eton contemporaries had done in politics. The Eton boys know that them running the country is ridiculous when they have so little knowledge of it, when will the majority of the UK population come to the same realisation!!

I don't know why anyone goes for PM. Most back street accountants earn more and don't get any stick.

 

[southshorepool]

If I was Boris, I'd have the snip.

 

[gjr69]

I don't know why anyone goes for PM. Most back street accountants earn more and don't get any stick.

The money comes later i suppose when you are out of the top job but that also shows us that the whole thing is about doing favours for people that can help you at some point further down the line while you pretend to care about the masses that populate your country.
Best thing anyone can do in this country is to try and make themselves as politician proof as possible. Unless you are the sort of person that can pay to decorate 10 Downing St, provide a holiday yacht or villa or pay 100,000 for a game of tennis with the PM, they probably aren't going to do a lot for you.

 

[Lytham_fy8]

Poor Boris, stabbed people in the back for the top job, lied for the top job, now he's got the top job and it's all a bit tricky and a bit more than rifling through your thesaurus and quoting other people's literary works before shouting THE KETCHUP OF THE CATCH UP! and hoping that'll do.

 

[poolseasider]

The money comes later i suppose when you are out of the top job but that also shows us that the whole thing is about doing favours for people that can help you at some point further down the line while you pretend to care about the masses that populate your country.
Best thing anyone can do in this country is to try and make themselves as politician proof as possible. Unless you are the sort of person that can pay to decorate 10 Downing St, provide a holiday yacht or villa or pay 100,000 for a game of tennis with the PM, they probably aren't going to do a lot for you.

They do it for the money is a new one on me Sunak and Starmer are already very wealthy and Rishi's wife's wealth is off the chart.

Never understood that argument some are just career political types who study politics at Uni with no guarantee they are going to get top jobs others like the two above go and do other things and then turn their hand to politics.

 

[gjr69]

They do it for the money is a new one on me Sunak and Starmer are already very wealthy and Rishi's wife's wealth is off the chart.

Never understood that argument some are just career political types who study politics at Uni with no guarantee they are going to get top jobs others like the two above go and do other things and then turn their hand to politics.

Sunak and Johnson are in different universes financially. Johnson will be looking to cash in all over the place when he ceases to be PM. I would guess Sunak gets off on the power and ego side of being a senior politician, we have to hope that he has the majority of peoples interests at heart and not just the interests of the people that inhabit his world.
Starmer will be well off compared to most but not in a serious mega money sort of way no where near, I guess his motivation for doing the job is to make the country a better place but only he knows.

 

[straightatthewall]

The country deserves Boris.

 

[Bottle]

Herd Immunity via mass infection rather than mass vaccination is just going to be a breeding ground for new variations innit! But there won’t be any more lockdowns or NHS App if its pinging away at its current rate - mind you it might all be part of the plan to batter the NHS into the ground and the introduction of Private Health Insurance, for those that can afford.

 

[poolseasider]

Sunak and Johnson are in different universes financially. Johnson will be looking to cash in all over the place when he ceases to be PM. I would guess Sunak gets off on the power and ego side of being a senior politician, we have to hope that he has the majority of peoples interests at heart and not just the interests of the people that inhabit his world.
Starmer will be well off compared to most but not in a serious mega money sort of way no where near, I guess his motivation for doing the job is to make the country a better place but only he knows.

A very one sided argument with not a shred of evidence to back it up.
Starmer personal wealth is a lot more than Boris so who knows what his motivation was.

I just don't buy that people set off to make loads of money out of politics from any party they represent when they set off, different when the get onto gravy train and start employing partners, having second homes and obscene expenses.

 

[southshorepool]

A very one sided argument with not a shred of evidence to back it up.
Starmer personal wealth is a lot more than Boris so who knows what his motivation was.

I just don't buy that people set off to make loads of money out of politics from any party they represent when they set off, different when the get onto gravy train and start employing partners, having second homes and obscene expenses.

I suspect his record as head of the CPS (prosecuting terrorists etc) and being a human rights lawyer, defending people against dodgy regimes may play some part in his motivation.

 

[gjr69]

A very one sided argument with not a shred of evidence to back it up.
Starmer personal wealth is a lot more than Boris so who knows what his motivation was.

I just don't buy that people set off to make loads of money out of politics from any party they represent when they set off, different when the get onto gravy train and start employing partners, having second homes and obscene expenses.

I wasn't trying to make a one sided argument and I think I agree with you, I don't vote Tory or Labour , I'm currently not inclined to vote for anybody.
My point that I'm trying to make is that unless somebody blatantly gets caught with their snout in the trough or their hands in the till we don't usually know what their motivation is.
Let's deal with Johnson and his motivation to be the PM, any ideas what that might be?
I struggle to come up with anything that reflects positively on him but I'm only guessing and basing my thoughts on what I see him doing and saying. Maybe he is a thoroughly decent bloke with caring and altruistic thoughts for those less fortunate than himself, if he is all that money spent on his education was poorly spent because he doesn't communicate that very well!!

 

[Shandypants]

Boris has become PM which will enable him to cash in when he vacates. It'll be soon, the dark clouds are gathering. Its going to be one hell of a mess to sort out. And some scoffed at labour's legacy when Gordon Brown vacated, its a damn sight better than what we currently face.

 

[Lytham_fy8]

I wasn't trying to make a one sided argument and I think I agree with you, I don't vote Tory or Labour , I'm currently not inclined to vote for anybody.
My point that I'm trying to make is that unless somebody blatantly gets caught with their snout in the trough or their hands in the till we don't usually know what their motivation is.
Let's deal with Johnson and his motivation to be the PM, any ideas what that might be?
I struggle to come up with anything that reflects positively on him but I'm only guessing and basing my thoughts on what I see him doing and saying. Maybe he is a thoroughly decent bloke with caring and altruistic thoughts for those less fortunate than himself, if he is all that money spent on his education was poorly spent because he doesn't communicate that very well!!

I honestly think it's because he's got some kind of weird Churchill self fantasy, the problem being Churchill for all his faults was quite the towering intellect with actual ideas, Johnson has neither.

I've no idea otherwise, the man has never stood for any principal in his life.

 

[Lost Seasider]

I can see us back in lockdown by September. The excuse will be something along the lines of, well it appears the vaccination programme hasn’t worked, it seems the virus is evolving quicker than we can vaccinate. Lockdown to save Christmas.

The modelling suggests a peak in the 3rd week in August, so I think the numbers might get a bit scary around that time, but I don't think another lockdown is likely.

 

[straightatthewall]

It's inevitable that if you allow increased personal contact and then increase testing and record cases, then you're going to see an increase. The same would happen at any point of the year for any similar type of virus. We would never have tested like this before and the majority with mild or even stronger symptoms would never show up on any records.
Hospital numbers and the wider impact on services is critical here. If there's likely to be increased hospital cases - and I have no idea if that will be the case or not - then there's a danger that another lockdown becomes inevitable to manage the stress on health services. It also tells us that the billions and billions being spent, would be better invested in the same health services to increase capacity and capability. Otherwise we'll have increased preventable deaths from loads of other things.

 

[SEASIDE2020]

If they did, some people would lap it up. Unfortunately, at this stage, it has now become quite difficult to find anyone who hasn't become a brain damaged **.

I am not commenting on whether we should be in lockdown or not now or at any later date.

They are plenty of people who believe that we should not be coming out of lockdown on Monday.

 

[ElBurroSinNombre]

It's inevitable that if you allow increased personal contact and the increase testing and record cases, then you're going to see an increase. The same would happen at any point of the year for any similar type of virus. We would never have tested like this before and the majority with mild or even stronger symptoms would never show up on any records.
Hospital numbers and the wider impact on services is critical here. If there's likely to be increased hospital cases - and I have no idea if that will be the case or not - then there's a danger that another lockdown becomes inevitable to manage the stress on health services. It also tells us that the billions and billions being spent, would be better invested in the same health services to increase capacity and capability. Otherwise we'll have increased preventable deaths from loads of other things.

Hopefully the damage will not be too bad in terms of human lives lost.
If we are recording 50,000+ infections a day then (there are probably many more unrecorded infections), it has the effect of at least an extra 50,000+ extra vaccinations per day which is sort of a good thing as eventually the virus will burn out. But it is only good thing if we do not sacrifice too many people along the way. But how many deaths would be OK? Some very difficult decisions being made by the government.
When this started 100 deaths a day would probably have been considered far too many by most people, now 18 months later we are heading that way and most seem to accept it. Whitty mentioned 200 per day at the peak I think recently.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

Hopefully the damage will not be too bad in terms of human lives lost.
If we are recording 50,000+ infections a day then (there are probably many more unrecorded infections), it has the effect of at least an extra 50,000+ extra vaccinations per day which is sort of a good thing as eventually the virus will burn out. But it is only good thing if we do not sacrifice too many people along the way. But how many deaths would be OK? Some every difficult decisions being made by the government.
When this started 100 deaths a day would probably have been considered far too many by most people, now 18 months later we are heading that way and most seem to accept it. Whitty mention 200 per day at the peak I think recently.

I think the Government attitude is that once they have offered everyone a vaccine, then that is Government responsibility fulfilled. So I'm not convinced that 'number of deaths' will feature particularly high on the priority list... The issue they seem to be focused on is managing the level of hospitalisations to a point that prevents the NHS from collapse.

 

[ElBurroSinNombre]

I think the Government attitude is that once they have offered everyone a vaccine, then that is Government responsibility fulfilled. So I'm not convinced that 'number of deaths' will feature particularly high on the priority list... The issue they seem to be focused on is managing the level of hospitalisations to a point that prevents the NHS from collapse.

That has been the strategy all along, both figures are clearly linked in any case

 

[SEASIDE2020]

There will always be an excuse.

Kebab

Is BHOK involved in the decision making now ?

In all seriousness, if we didn't lift restrictions now, when will ever do ?

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

That has been the strategy all along, both figures are clearly linked in any case

Yes, I think it has… I appreciate that they are linked, but the point I was trying to make is that deaths aren’t driving the decision making.

Plus they see the vaccine as having done for their bit. So if you refuse the vaccine and die, then ‘tough shit’

So maybe not a shift in policy, but certainly in their rhetoric

 

[SEASIDE2020]

That has been the strategy all along, both figures are clearly linked in any case

I was just going to the same re the strategy all along but to be fair to BFC I think he was stating the obvious while addressing another point.

While there is an obv link between deaths and cases, i.e. if no cases there will be no deaths but surely the deaths to cases figure is now lower an the same with the hospitalisation to cases.

I'm thinking I might be jumping in during the middle of the debate and have missed something somewhere ?

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

I was just going to the same re the strategy all along but to be fair to BFC I think he was stating the obvious while addressing another point.

While there is an obv link between deaths and cases, i.e. if no cases there will be no deaths but surely the deaths to cases figure is now lower an the same with the hospitalisation to cases.

I'm thinking I might be jumping in during the middle of the debate and have missed something somewhere ?

Well the point I’m saying is that even if deaths increased beyond previous levels, so long as the NHS could cope, then it wouldn’t be an issue.

There has also been a shift in what Tory Party members are prepared to say in the issue in parliament also. So as I’ve repeated they are kind of shifting the responsibility onto the people and vaccination….

So in essence they are willing to allow deaths to go unchecked, because they have vaccinated the population.

 

[ElBurroSinNombre]

Well the point I’m saying is that even if deaths increased beyond previous levels, so long as the NHS could cope, then it wouldn’t be an issue.

There has also been a shift in what Tory Party members are prepared to say in the issue in parliament also. So as I’ve repeated they are kind of shifting the responsibility onto the people and vaccination….

So in essence they are willing to allow deaths to go unchecked, because they have vaccinated the population.

I'd agree, there does seem to have been a shift in thinking recently.
A lot less fixation on numbers (except for the numbers vaccinated of course).

 

[Kip]

Hopefully the damage will not be too bad in terms of human lives lost.
If we are recording 50,000+ infections a day then (there are probably many more unrecorded infections), it has the effect of at least an extra 50,000+ extra vaccinations per day which is sort of a good thing as eventually the virus will burn out. But it is only good thing if we do not sacrifice too many people along the way. But how many deaths would be OK? Some very difficult decisions being made by the government.
When this started 100 deaths a day would probably have been considered far too many by most people, now 18 months later we are heading that way and most seem to accept it. Whitty mentioned 200 per day at the peak I think recently.

I think the number of a daily 'acceptable deaths' is fairly easy to calculate.

It should be the average daily deaths from the worst influenza/pneumonia winter plus a certain percentage to acknowledge the consequences of lockdown.

Quick search reveals that in 2018 29516 people died of flu/pneumonia.
Assume 75% were in the winter months so 22137 spread over Nov-Feb (120 days) gives 184 daily.
Add assumed 'consequence' percentage of 40% and you get around 258 daily deaths before we start thinking about imposing restrictions.

Obviously you can play around with the percentages and need to get accurate death data but it certainly shouldn't be below levels society has previously tolerated for other illnesses.

 

[SEASIDE2020]

Well the point I’m saying is that even if deaths increased beyond previous levels, so long as the NHS could cope, then it wouldn’t be an issue.

There has also been a shift in what Tory Party members are prepared to say in the issue in parliament also. So as I’ve repeated they are kind of shifting the responsibility onto the people and vaccination….

So in essence they are willing to allow deaths to go unchecked, because they have vaccinated the population.

BFC

Yet, I get what you were saying re the focus on the NHS coping , I was just reading different posts in different order and originally thought you were stating the obvious then noticed somebody had said the same.

 

[Adams Kebab]

Kebab

Is BHOK involved in the decision making now ?

In all seriousness, if we didn't lift restrictions now, when will ever do ?

People like BHOK don’t ever want restrictions lifted. When cases start dropping again, he’ll be going on about Long Covid again.

He defended the Oyston’s and is pro-lockdowns and restrictions

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

BFC

Yet, I get what you were saying re the focus on the NHS coping , I was just reading different posts in different order and originally thought you were stating the obvious then noticed somebody had said the same.

My main point, which I probably haven’t made too well is more about a) the government becoming more emboldened about what might have formerly been an ‘unspoken’ policy and b) how they are looking to shift or offload responsibility into the public.

It’s that kind of Trumpian type of approach, whereby they are seeking a deadline by which they can draw a line under CoViD or at least draw a line under their responsibility for the impact of Covid, under the guise of ‘Freedom of Choice’. They view vaccination (or the offer of vaccination) as that handover process.

 

[SEASIDE2020]

My main point, which I probably haven’t made too well is more about a) the government becoming more emboldened about what might have formerly been an ‘unspoken’ policy and b) how they are looking to shift or offload responsibility into the public.

It’s that kind of Trumpian type of approach, whereby they are seeking a deadline by which they can draw a line under CoViD or at least draw a line under their responsibility for the impact of Covid, under the guise of ‘Freedom of Choice’. They view vaccination (or the offer of vaccination) as that handover process.

No problem, I just made a quick lazy comment before.

 

[SEASIDE2020]

People like BHOK don’t ever want restrictions lifted. When cases start dropping again, he’ll be going on about Long Covid again.

He defended the Oyston’s and is pro-lockdowns and restrictions

Kebab

I was being lazy when replying to you to.

I only mentioned BHOK because somebody else referred to Long Covid.

I am not suggesting that Long Covid doesn't exist and that it won't cause problems, it's just that we have people using it as justification for a continued lockdown.

Surely we can't lockdown because something might happen along way down the line ?

It doesn't matter what I think, I'm just amazed at how many people appear happy to stay at home - I mean not return to work, I don't mean never leave the house - forever and there seems very little appetite to get back to normal or even towards normal.

Criticism of Boris/Government on here is mostly that he hasn't taken it seriously enough, I know it's not easy but I don't think the Government have been strong enough in ensuring that restrictions are lifted on Monday and too many are getting away with ignoring the lifting of restrictions.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

Criticism of Boris/Government on here is mostly that he hasn't taken it seriously enough, I know it's not easy but I don't think the Government have been strong enough in ensuring that restrictions are lifted on Monday and too many are getting away with ignoring the lifting of restrictions.

Not only are they not being strong enough, but they're also making half hearted policy decisons, which 'yet again' negatively impact businesses. In particular failing to revise the Self-Isolation Policy for those who have been double jabbed.

To put into context, I've now been self-isolated for one reason or another for 28 Days in total since the beginning of June and at no time during that period have I had Covid. Whilst of course, the AVFTT masses have bnenefitted greatly by me having extra time available to post my wealth of wisdom on this forum, it has been a right royal pain in the arse to be honest and cost me time I ought to have been enjoying the summer break... As an employer, I'm fortunate that staff can work from home if required, but many businesses are in a right pickle and that will only get worse...

 

[SEASIDE2020]

Not only are they not being strong enough, but they're also making half hearted policy decisons, which 'yet again' negatively impact businesses. In particular failing to revise the Self-Isolation Policy for those who have been double jabbed.

To put into context, I've now been self-isolated for one reason or another for 28 Days in total since the beginning of June and at no time during that period have I had Covid. Whilst of course, the AVFTT masses have bnenefitted greatly by me having extra time available to post my wealth of wisdom on this forum, it has been a right royal pain in the arse to be honest and cost me time I ought to have been enjoying the summer break... As an employer, I'm fortunate that staff can work from home if required, but many businesses are in a right pickle and that will only get worse...

BFC

On the strong enough one, I guess some will say to me that you can't force people not to remove restrictions but I'm just hearing too many cries for the Government to intervene, surely the have already intervened by removing the restrictions ?

On isolation you will certainly get no argument from me on that but I'd imagine things are going to change on that front - it has to ?

If everybody had followed everything correctly and used these silly apps, the country would have been brought to a standstill in no time.

I'm hearing - yes, that's hearing and I have no actual evidence - that the NHS and the coppers are being advised to switch off, I was listening to Sanuk - don't know why he was talking about it but he was on some TV news program - the other day and he almost advised everybody to switch off but stopped shorting of actually doing so.

They are going to struggle to advise everybody not to bother with all the tracing when it cost £22bn last year and will cost another £15bn this year.

 

[BFC_BFC_BFC]

BFC

On the strong enough one, I guess some will say to me that you can't force people not to remove restrictions but I'm just hearing too many cries for the Government to intervene, surely the have already intervened by removing the restrictions ?

On isolation you will certainly get no argument from me on that but I'd imagine things are going to change on that front - it has to ?

If everybody had followed everything correctly and used these silly apps, the country would have been brought to a standstill in no time.

I'm hearing - yes, that's hearing and I have no actual evidence - that the NHS and the coppers are being advised to switch off, I was listening to Sanuk - don't know why he was talking about it but he was on some TV news program - the other day and he almost advised everybody to switch off but stopped shorting of actually doing so.

They are going to struggle to advise everybody not to bother with all the tracing when it cost £22bn last year and will cost another £15bn this year.

I'm not convinced Track and Trace has a great deal of practical use in our current situation really. It's might have been useful in the early stages of the pandemic (when it wasn't working ), but it's likely not to be of much use until we have aother pandemic in maybe 50 years time!!