Institutional Racism and Misogyny

[Ollygon]

In the London Fire Brigade!

Also can be applied to the Police and Armed Forces.

When I was working I had an Equalities Code drawn up in the 1990s. It was a case of 3 strikes and you were out. It certainly weeded out the dinosaurs and the environment was much better.

I found that offenders were in the main inadequates who had just about reached their level of incompetence, but they had a chip on their shoulder and just couldn't accept the fact that a woman or someone from an ethnic minority could do the job better than them.

But in 2022?

This is pathetic. It shouldn't be tolerated under any circumstances.

 

[Lala]

And 3 strikes is far too generous

 

[Ollygon]

And 3 strikes is far too generous

Yes it was. But at that time this was the same for every instance which wasn't deemed to be "gross misconduct"

I understand from former colleagues that the criteria has now changed, and it's a warning and then dismissal - so I suppose progress is being made

 

[1966_and_all_that]

I expect a degree of reactionary attitudes in the Police and the Army, but the fire brigade?!

 

[Victorsponge]

I'm afraid racism is pretty institutionalised throughout the country, you only have to look at the two current reality shows, I'm a celebrity and strictly the voting public can't wait to get rid of any black competitors

 

[Threepeaksphil]

I'm afraid racism is pretty institutionalised throughout the country, you only have to look at the two current reality shows, I'm a celebrity and strictly the voting public can't wait to get rid of any black competitors

But the votes on both shows are not voting people off but voting to keep people in.

 

[Chunkylad]

I believe the UK is possibly the least racist country(s) that I’ve visited. It’s not perfect of course, but we have a great mix of religions and cultures here going back generations.

We are though horribly elitist as a nation and that worries me more.

 

[Victorsponge]

But the votes on both shows are not voting people off but voting to keep people in.

I don't watch strictly but apparently one black competitor dropped two points out of 40 awarded by the judges and were second until the public vote, they had to compete against another couple in a "dance off" this implies the public aren't voting for dancing ability but skin colour.

 

[Lala]

I'm afraid racism is pretty institutionalised throughout the country, you only have to look at the two current reality shows, I'm a celebrity and strictly the voting public can't wait to get rid of any black competitors

Actually it was 3 women that went out first.

 

[Wizaard]

I'm afraid racism is pretty institutionalised throughout the country, you only have to look at the two current reality shows, I'm a celebrity and strictly the voting public can't wait to get rid of any black competitors

There really is something in that. Fleur has consistently been in the top two or three voted by the judges, then must pick up next to no votes from the public to end up in the dance off.

 

[Victorsponge]

Actually it was 3 women that went out first.

Which show Lala?

 

[Lala]

Which show Lala?

I’m a celeb, this year.

 

[Victorsponge]

Weren't the first two black women?

 

[Lala]

Weren't the first two black women?

They were but it depends on whether we spin it on racist or sexist. The first 4 out were 2 black and 2 white. 3 women and Boy George.

If it was racism how come the black man Babatunde stayed in longer


Personally I don’t think its either racist or sexist. The ones that went were either less known or more annoying. It was as simple as that.

 

[Mexboroseasider]

This sounds like an incredible show and I’m just sorry I’m missing it.

What channel is it on?

 

[Victorsponge]

I think if you look at past series of I'm a celebrity, 8 out of the 20 winners have been female (am I allowed to say the f word?) So I don't think it's a sexist thing.
I hope your right about it just being the most irritating ones, although I thought Scarlet was a great competitor.

 

[Chunkylad]

Wasn’t that on the Tory members vote paper?

White woman
Non white male

 

[Lala]

I think if you look at past series of I'm a celebrity, 8 out of the 20 winners have been female (am I allowed to say the f word?) So I don't think it's a sexist thing.
I hope your right about it just being the most irritating ones, although I thought Scarlet was a great competitor.

I don’t think it’s sexist. I think Scarlett was the least known in there and the problem with that is most of the others will have a baseline following already which left her at a disadvantage as it’s vote for your favourite.

I did vote for Scarlett but some people have favourites just based on who they are before they’ve even gone into the jungle.

 

[Victorsponge]

I don’t think it’s sexist. I think Scarlett was the least known in there and the problem with that is most of the others will have a baseline following already which left her at a disadvantage as it’s vote for your favourite.

I did vote for Scarlett but some people have favourites just based on who they are before they’ve even gone into the jungle.

Maybe I should get off my fat arse and vote!

 

[Lala]

Maybe I should get off my fat arse and vote!

You should !!!! Get the app for next year

 

[SEASIDE2020]

They were but it depends on whether we spin it on racist or sexist. The first 4 out were 2 black and 2 white. 3 women and Boy George.

If it was racism how come the black man Babatunde stayed in longer


Personally I don’t think its either racist or sexist. The ones that went were either less known or more annoying. It was as simple as that.

LALA

You could have just said, "It depends on how we spin it".

A perfect example would be a thread on here on how current politicians aren't up to scratch.

I said that I thought that Priti Patel, Liz Truss and Angela Rayner were "thick as feck" - I appreciate that's not a nice term and have already apologised for using it but it's hardly a hanging offence and I'm sure plenty of posters have been more abusive towards other politicians.

I included a caveat in my post, clearly explaining that I'm sure there will be male politicians that are thick, that I have selected two Tories and one Labour MP and I'm sure nobody would describe my post as racist.

I am then told by a moderator that although my post is not racist or misogynistic, it is snobbery to include Angela Rayner.

As you say, it just depends how we choose to spin it, if a person is determined to pin something on somebody then they will just do so without any justification.

To introduce snobbery after what I had said was a perfect example of the moderators own prejudice.

 

[1966_and_all_that]

There really is something in that. Fleur has consistently been in the top two or three voted by the judges, then must pick up next to no votes from the public to end up in the dance off.

Yes it's worrying. If I'm being kind I might say it's also a matter of how well the celebrities are known to the public. Also, those at the top of the leaderboard will lose votes to the strugglers because people might be using their vote to save someone in trouble, assuming that the better dancers will score highly anyway.

 

[ElBurroSinNombre]

Matt Hancock hired a PR firm to orchestrate his winning of the 'I'm a celebrity' show. So his success had little to do with racism or sexism and a lot to do with cheating. Not at all surprising that Matt turns out to be a cheat in this as well, he has no shame.

How did he survive? PR and TikTok votes kept Matt Hancock in I’m a Celebrity jungle

An online campaign to boost his popularity has helped the former Tory minister to the final four of the TV reality contest

www.theguardian.com

 

[Davepick]

When I was at Luton Airport (HM Customs) we had a Sikh (with full turban) and a West Indian.
Harry, the WI, was one of my best friends and wouldn't take any bullshit off anyone.
His wife, also West Indian, was a Town Councillor at Luton.
Everyone got on together. You had to.
Harry, the W, Indian sadly passed away this year, he had dementia. I am still in contact with his wife.

 

[Lala]

Matt Hancock hired a PR firm to orchestrate his winning of the 'I'm a celebrity' show. So his success had little to do with racism or sexism and a lot to do with cheating. Not at all surprising that Matt turns out to be a cheat in this as well, he has no shame.

How did he survive? PR and TikTok votes kept Matt Hancock in I’m a Celebrity jungle

An online campaign to boost his popularity has helped the former Tory minister to the final four of the TV reality contest

www.theguardian.com

I don’t use tik Tok and his so called PR will not have had access to me in anyway. And I voted for him.

Its time to accept that not everyone thinks he’s the devil incarnate despite the fact we are being told he is time and time and time again.

You do not come 3rd if you are hated so much, no matter what PR you have.

 

[ElBurroSinNombre]

I don’t use tik Tok and his so called PR will not have had access to me in anyway. And I voted for him.

Its time to accept that not everyone thinks he’s the devil incarnate despite the fact we are being told he is time and time and time again.

You do not come 3rd if you are hated so much, no matter what PR you have.

It's not time for me to accept anything and I don't care what other people think of him.
I don't watch that sort of thing but he really shouldn't be on entertainment TV just out of respect for the people who died on his watch. I wonder what my employer would say if I asked for paid leave to appear on a TV programme that would enrich me after failing disastrously in my job.
Here are a few of the things that cuddly Matt has done, prior to arriving in the jungle;

• Broke the COVID rules that he himself made, whilst having an affair behind his wife's back
• Gave his wife and kids a few minutes notice of leaving the family home, one of his children had to be woken up to hear the news
• Oversaw the discharge of COVID positive patients into care homes, there is no way that he couldn't have known the potential effect of this
• Doubled down on the mistake by repeating the lie 'We threw a protective ring around care homes' many, many times. This is simply a lie and a grossly insulting lie to the relatives of the dead.
• Tried to take credit for the vaccine development - this had nothing to do with him
• Amazingly his friend and local pub landlord lands a contract to produce PPE despite having no experience - Matt wants us to believe that this is nothing to do with him, it looks like blatant case of corruption with the public purse.

The guy is a narcissistic slime ball, who should IMO, be facing criminal charges for misconduct in public office, rather than appearing on prime time TV. This is attempt by Matt to publicise his book and to reinvent himself in the eyes of the public, and it would seem some are falling for it. But I'm not.

 

[Lala]

It's not time for me to accept anything and I don't care what other people think of him.
I don't watch that sort of thing but he really shouldn't be on entertainment TV just out of respect for the people who died on his watch. I wonder what my employer would say if I asked for paid leave to appear on a TV programme that would enrich me after failing disastrously in my job.
Here are a few of the things that cuddly Matt has done, prior to arriving in the jungle;

• Broke the COVID rules that he himself made, whilst having an affair behind his wife's back
• Gave his wife and kids a few minutes notice of leaving the family home, one of his children had to be woken up to hear the news
• Oversaw the discharge of COVID positive patients into care homes, there is no way that he couldn't have known the potential effect of this
• Doubled down on the mistake by repeating the lie 'We threw a protective ring around care homes' many, many times. This is simply a lie and a grossly insulting lie to the relatives of the dead.
• Tried to take credit for the vaccine development - this had nothing to do with him
• Amazingly his friend and local pub landlord lands a contract to produce PPE despite having no experience - Matt wants us to believe that this is nothing to do with him, it looks like blatant case of corruption with the public purse.

The guy is a narcissistic slime ball, who should IMO, be facing criminal charges for misconduct in public office, rather than appearing on prime time TV. This is attempt by Matt to publicise his book and to reinvent himself in the eyes of the public, and it would seem some are falling for it. But I'm not.

You do have to accept that other people just don’t feel the hate the same way you do. Some do yes, but a lot don’t.

Or you dont have to accept it, but it’s still the case whether you do or not.

And back to your original point, he came 3rd because people voted for him. Simple as.

 

[ElBurroSinNombre]

You do have to accept that other people just don’t feel the hate the same way you do. Some do yes, but a lot don’t.

Or you dont have to accept it, but it’s still the case whether you do or not.

And back to your original point, he came 3rd because people voted for him. Simple as.

Yes I don't have to accept it.

My only contact with my 19 year old daughter during the pandemic, who was exposing herself to considerable risk by working in an ITU, was her standing outside my front gate while I was stood on my doorstep. This went on for months. I'm not special, I am just like the vast majority of people. I did what I was asked to by Matt Hancock because it was the right thing to do. And it turns out that the same rules don't apply to him. Of course I am angry about this. And there are millions who were in worse positions than me.

So yes, I will never be ready for the rehabilitation of cuddly Matt into public life. As I said he should be facing criminal charges.

 

[Lala]

Yes I don't have to accept it.

My only contact with my 19 year old daughter during the pandemic, who was exposing herself to considerable risk by working in an ITU, was her standing outside my front gate while I was stood on my doorstep. This went on for months. I'm not special, I am just like the vast majority of people. I did what I was asked to by Matt Hancock because it was the right thing to do. And it turns out that the same rules don't apply to him. Of course I am angry about this. And there are millions who were in worse positions than me.

So yes, I will never be ready for the rehabilitation of cuddly Matt into public life. As I said he should be facing criminal charges.

He’s already said his political career is over. Looks like he knew that before he went into the jungle.

He’s participating in all the relevant enquiries. I’m not a vociferous supporter of his but I’ll judge more when the enquiry details are known.

It’s a shame about the limited time you saw your daughter during the pandemic.

On the flip side 95% of everyone I know broke one covid rule or other. I’m one of them. Very few of us are perfect.

 

[ElBurroSinNombre]

He’s already said his political career is over. Looks like he knew that before he went into the jungle.

He’s participating in all the relevant enquiries. I’m not a vociferous supporter of his but I’ll judge more when the enquiry details are known.

It’s a shame about the limited time you saw your daughter during the pandemic.

On the flip side 95% of everyone I know broke one covid rule or other. I’m one of them. Very few of us are perfect.

I'm not going to answer this other than to say that if you are asking other people to make sacrifices then you should make sure that you are prepared make the same sacrifices yourself. It's called leading by example. If you make rules like those that Matt did then you have to be purer than the driven snow.
If you want to convince yourself that he is a good person despite all of the many pieces of evidence to the contrary then that is up to you. The latest twist is that he is probably not as popular as you think as many of his votes were driven by a PR campaign. In the campaign followers were instructed on how to vote many times for Matt.

 

[straightatthewall]

Fleur doesn’t get votes because the people that vote on strictly don’t like dancers who pretend to be non-dancers. Same reason Molly doesn’t get votes.

Charlene was useless and Scarlett was boring but nice. Babatunde wasn’t funny (neither was Sean). There’s no conspiracy

 

[Lala]

I'm not going to answer this other than to say that if you are asking other people to make sacrifices then you should make sure that you are prepared make the same sacrifices yourself. It's called leading by example. If you make rules like those that Matt did then you have to be purer than the driven snow.
If you want to convince yourself that he is a good person despite all of the many pieces of evidence to the contrary then that is up to you. The latest twist is that he is probably not as popular as you think as many of his votes were driven by a PR campaign. In the campaign followers were instructed on how to vote many times for Matt.

Sorry. But the PR thing is just hilarious and hardly cheating and it didn’t impact one person I know with regards their voting,

As regards ‘ a good person’ I tend to think most people fit somewhere in-between on a long sliding scale with good on one end and bad on the other and Matt Hancock is no different. Very few sit firmly on either end of all good or all bad.

 

[Lytham_fy8]

Sorry. But the PR thing is just hilarious and hardly cheating and it didn’t impact one person I know with regards their voting,

As regards ‘ a good person’ I tend to think most people fit somewhere in-between on a long sliding scale with good on one end and bad on the other and Matt Hancock is no different. Very few sit firmly on either end of all good or all bad.

His voting record is abysmal, so fuck him, the **.

 

[1966_and_all_that]

It's not time for me to accept anything and I don't care what other people think of him.
I don't watch that sort of thing but he really shouldn't be on entertainment TV just out of respect for the people who died on his watch. I wonder what my employer would say if I asked for paid leave to appear on a TV programme that would enrich me after failing disastrously in my job.
Here are a few of the things that cuddly Matt has done, prior to arriving in the jungle;

• Broke the COVID rules that he himself made, whilst having an affair behind his wife's back
• Gave his wife and kids a few minutes notice of leaving the family home, one of his children had to be woken up to hear the news
• Oversaw the discharge of COVID positive patients into care homes, there is no way that he couldn't have known the potential effect of this
• Doubled down on the mistake by repeating the lie 'We threw a protective ring around care homes' many, many times. This is simply a lie and a grossly insulting lie to the relatives of the dead.
• Tried to take credit for the vaccine development - this had nothing to do with him
• Amazingly his friend and local pub landlord lands a contract to produce PPE despite having no experience - Matt wants us to believe that this is nothing to do with him, it looks like blatant case of corruption with the public purse.

The guy is a narcissistic slime ball, who should IMO, be facing criminal charges for misconduct in public office, rather than appearing on prime time TV. This is attempt by Matt to publicise his book and to reinvent himself in the eyes of the public, and it would seem some are falling for it. But I'm not.

Hear, hear!

 

[1966_and_all_that]

You do have to accept that other people just don’t feel the hate the same way you do. Some do yes, but a lot don’t.

Or you dont have to accept it, but it’s still the case whether you do or not.

And back to your original point, he came 3rd because people voted for him. Simple as.

You do have to accept that other people just don’t feel the hate the same way you do.

Which is a sad reflection on British society. Also, nothing is ever, "simple as."

 

[Mexboroseasider]

Is it finished yet?

Is it safe to turn my TV back on?

 

[Lala]

You do have to accept that other people just don’t feel the hate the same way you do.

Which is a sad reflection on British society. Also, nothing is ever, "simple as."

I disagree, sometimes they are.

 

[Wizaard]

I don’t use tik Tok and his so called PR will not have had access to me in anyway. And I voted for him.

Its time to accept that not everyone thinks he’s the devil incarnate despite the fact we are being told he is time and time and time again.

You do not come 3rd if you are hated so much, no matter what PR you have.

Is it not bizarre that two people went into the jungle seeking public redemption.

They were treated the same despite one being in the bad books for killing thousands of pensioners through his decisions on care homes and hospital ward clearance, while the other kissed a dancer.

What does that say about the Great British public?

 

[SEASIDE2020]

Matt Hancock hired a PR firm to orchestrate his winning of the 'I'm a celebrity' show. So his success had little to do with racism or sexism and a lot to do with cheating. Not at all surprising that Matt turns out to be a cheat in this as well, he has no shame.

How did he survive? PR and TikTok votes kept Matt Hancock in I’m a Celebrity jungle

An online campaign to boost his popularity has helped the former Tory minister to the final four of the TV reality contest

www.theguardian.com

I wouldn't have much time for Hancock myself, I'd rather he made a better job of being Health Secretary than of completing Bushtucker Trials but I'd be struggling to say that he cheated on this silly celebrity thing.

I'd say his PR firm have done a great job, I'm not going to pretend that I like him but whether you or I like him or not, I think it's fair to say that his stint in the jungle will not have done the sales of his book any harm.

 

[SEASIDE2020]

Is it not bizarre that two people went into the jungle seeking public redemption.

They were treated the same despite one being in the bad books for killing thousands of pensioners through his decisions on care homes and hospital ward clearance, while the other kissed a dancer.

What does that say about the Great British public?

It says that Wiz has no time for the Great British public whenever they form a different opinion on an issue/matter than his own !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[SEASIDE2020]

Fleur doesn’t get votes because the people that vote on strictly don’t like dancers who pretend to be non-dancers. Same reason Molly doesn’t get votes.

Charlene was useless and Scarlett was boring but nice. Babatunde wasn’t funny (neither was Sean). There’s no conspiracy

What the feck does all that even mean Straighters ?

 

[SEASIDE2020]

Sorry. But the PR thing is just hilarious and hardly cheating and it didn’t impact one person I know with regards their voting,

As regards ‘ a good person’ I tend to think most people fit somewhere in-between on a long sliding scale with good on one end and bad on the other and Matt Hancock is no different. Very few sit firmly on either end of all good or all bad.

I'm with you all the way on this thread but I'm still saying Hancock's a wrong un.

 

[straightatthewall]

What the feck does all that even mean Straighters ?

Those that know, know. Those that don't know, don't know...

 

[SEASIDE2020]

Those that know, know. Those that don't know, don't know...

I know that I don't know.

 

[Johnno]

Did anyone watch ‘This England’?
I know it was a drama, but it made me think a lot about the likes of Hancock and how much say they have on their own responsibilities. There’s a scene where Hancock is being told what figures he has to quote in a press conference, but he’s arguing they’re not correct. He basically gets ordered to use the wrong figures (albeit that they’ve been spinned, so not actually lying), and as he walks off he says to an aide “We’re being set up, here”.
Does anyone believe that he came up with the policy of sending elderly hospital patients back to nursing homes without testing on his own? Without all the government medical expert advice? Without Johnson agreeing (if not ordering it)?
I’m not a Tory fan, but I’m not sure Hancock is the devil incarnate, just your average politician yes man.

 

[Lala]

Did anyone watch ‘This England’?
I know it was a drama, but it made me think a lot about the likes of Hancock and how much say they have on their own responsibilities. There’s a scene where Hancock is being told what figures he has to quote in a press conference, but he’s arguing they’re not correct. He basically gets ordered to use the wrong figures (albeit that they’ve been spinned, so not actually lying), and as he walks off he says to an aide “We’re being set up, here”.
Does anyone believe that he came up with the policy of sending elderly hospital patients back to nursing homes without testing on his own? Without all the government medical expert advice? Without Johnson agreeing (if not ordering it)?
I’m not a Tory fan, but I’m not sure Hancock is the devil incarnate, just your average politician yes man.

Agree Johnno. They have subject matter experts who advise them on everything, or tell them what to say and what to so.

They are often just the communicating figurehead for the department they lead.

 

[rockontommy]

Did anyone watch ‘This England’?
I know it was a drama, but it made me think a lot about the likes of Hancock and how much say they have on their own responsibilities. There’s a scene where Hancock is being told what figures he has to quote in a press conference, but he’s arguing they’re not correct. He basically gets ordered to use the wrong figures (albeit that they’ve been spinned, so not actually lying), and as he walks off he says to an aide “We’re being set up, here”.
Does anyone believe that he came up with the policy of sending elderly hospital patients back to nursing homes without testing on his own? Without all the government medical expert advice? Without Johnson agreeing (if not ordering it)?
I’m not a Tory fan, but I’m not sure Hancock is the devil incarnate, just your average politician yes man.

Loads of politicians on both sides colluded in hiding behind expert advice which was bang on until Neil Ferguson came along. Credit to those few politicians which didn't and stuck their heads above parapet at risk of being called all sorts.

 

[Johnno]

Loads of politicians on both sides colluded in hiding behind expert advice which was bang on until Neil Ferguson came along. Credit to those few politicians which didn't and stuck their heads above parapet at risk of being called all sorts.

I don’t disagree with that, I just think that some think Hancock was some kind of leading policy maker, which he wasn’t (imo), just a typical politician who followed the line instead of what was right

 

[1966_and_all_that]

Did anyone watch ‘This England’?
I know it was a drama, but it made me think a lot about the likes of Hancock and how much say they have on their own responsibilities. There’s a scene where Hancock is being told what figures he has to quote in a press conference, but he’s arguing they’re not correct. He basically gets ordered to use the wrong figures (albeit that they’ve been spinned, so not actually lying), and as he walks off he says to an aide “We’re being set up, here”.
Does anyone believe that he came up with the policy of sending elderly hospital patients back to nursing homes without testing on his own? Without all the government medical expert advice? Without Johnson agreeing (if not ordering it)?
I’m not a Tory fan, but I’m not sure Hancock is the devil incarnate, just your average politician yes man.

Agree Johnno. They have subject matter experts who advise them on everything, or tell them what to say and what to so.

They are often just the communicating figurehead for the department they lead.

He is still an MP, whose first responsibility is to his constituents, not to his own pocket-lining, self-interest.

 

[Wizaard]

Did anyone watch ‘This England’?
I know it was a drama, but it made me think a lot about the likes of Hancock and how much say they have on their own responsibilities. There’s a scene where Hancock is being told what figures he has to quote in a press conference, but he’s arguing they’re not correct. He basically gets ordered to use the wrong figures (albeit that they’ve been spinned, so not actually lying), and as he walks off he says to an aide “We’re being set up, here”.
Does anyone believe that he came up with the policy of sending elderly hospital patients back to nursing homes without testing on his own? Without all the government medical expert advice? Without Johnson agreeing (if not ordering it)?
I’m not a Tory fan, but I’m not sure Hancock is the devil incarnate, just your average politician yes man.

With power comes responsibility and accountability. As Secretary, it was on his watch and ultimately the buck stops with him for Health matters.