Inverted Wing Backs
- Thread starter SpionKop
- Start date
Phil_bfc deux
Well-known member
Loads of teams do it with wide attacking players so they can cut inside and shoot or pack the middle areas allowing a fullback to overlap
I can't think of one successful team who do it with wing backs in a back 5 as it makes zero sense
SpionKop
Well-known member
i know that mate but who has come up with the word “inverted” as that has only come to the fore the last couple of years. Is it the new buzz word.
LA1 Seasider
Well-known member
Cruyff was doing it at Barcelona back in the day - Guardiola does it now. Guardiola was one of the first inverted wingbacks at Barcelona
For the record inverted doesn’t necessarily mean playing on the opposite side to their weakest foot - it just so happens that that is usually a symptom of the tactic. Gabriel will almost certainly play in the RWB role once fit and I imagine Lyons will continue at LWB.
The key thing with inverted WB’s is that the position doesn’t rely on individual ability but also on teammates on the opposite wing, midfielders and CB’s doing their jobs properly in order to release the WB. I think it’s therefore pretty tricky to judge Lyons or CJ at this point when the midfield aren’t doing their job properly
Wilburrabbit
Well-known member
We have three players who are wing backs in the squad (Gabriel, Lyons and Thompson) and the rest are makeshift. I don’t really think inverted wing backs work at this level but have had some success at Premier League level.
Lyons played on the left side of midfield in a mostly 3-4-3 formation in Ireland but our3-5-2 is a different beast.
With Norburn in the team we could play 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 as he does the job in front of the back four allowing full backs to go forward. That would give us width but our midfield is not working hard enough to support the strikers.
4-2-3-1 is probably our best option at present but the full backs would need to get forward at every opportunity and the three would need to work harder supporting Rhodes or Lavery.
Lyons played on the left side of midfield in a mostly 3-4-3 formation in Ireland but our3-5-2 is a different beast.
With Norburn in the team we could play 4-3-3 or 4-4-2 as he does the job in front of the back four allowing full backs to go forward. That would give us width but our midfield is not working hard enough to support the strikers.
4-2-3-1 is probably our best option at present but the full backs would need to get forward at every opportunity and the three would need to work harder supporting Rhodes or Lavery.
SpionKop
Well-known member
thanks LA1.Cruyff was doing it at Barcelona back in the day - Guardiola does it now. Guardiola was one of the first inverted wingbacks at Barcelona
For the record inverted doesn’t necessarily mean playing on the opposite side to their weakest foot - it just so happens that that is usually a symptom of the tactic. Gabriel will almost certainly play in the RWB role once fit and I imagine Lyons will continue at LWB.
The key thing with inverted WB’s is that the position doesn’t rely on individual ability but also on teammates on the opposite wing, midfielders and CB’s doing their jobs properly in order to release the WB. I think it’s therefore pretty tricky to judge Lyons or CJ at this point when the midfield aren’t doing their job properly
So that’s where i was going wrong when i played as a WB. I used to bomb forward irrespective and amble back no wonder i regularly got the hook after 60ish minutes
LA1 Seasider
Well-known member
In theory the 5 at the back should be a 4 at the back with one of the WB’s always rotating into the midfield. Atm it seems neither know when to rotate and we either end up attacking without either of the WB’s getting forward to support (when we can actually afford both if the midfield stays alert) or we end up defending with both WB’s caught out of position.thanks LA1.
So that’s where i was going wrong when i played as a WB. I used to bomb forward irrespective and amble back no wonder i regularly got the hook after 60ish minutes
It’s a formation that relies on intelligence and confidence. Under Critchley I truly believe that the understanding(intelligence) will come - that’s what he does best. The players wax lyrical about his ability to prepare them and educate them - even the senior pros. But intelligence and understanding takes time.
SpionKop
Well-known member
interesting to read that.
switching it slightly on Saturday Thommo was doing the co-commentary and said the problem was in the centre and when Norburn (who he crucified) comes out of there looking for the ball no one fills the hole and consequently we are wide open - looking back i think lincoln’s second goal was a prime example. So i suppose what i’m getting at is do we have the players to play at an advanced Critchley level or as you suggest is it just a time thing?
AllTheBoysAreCheerin'
Well-known member
Some idiot that doesn't know the meaning of the word "inverted", obviously.
We've had this discussion before, don't get the Sky tv watching text book reading "it doesn't mean what it actually means" lot started again!
SpionKop
Well-known member
adjectiveSome idiot that doesn't know the meaning of the word "inverted", obviously.
We've had this discussion before, don't get the Sky tv watching text book reading "it doesn't mean what it actually means" lot started again!
- 1.
placed or lying upside down or in the opposite position, order, or arrangement from usual.
"press into an inverted U shape"
Just read a piece in the Guardian about Grealishs reluctance to use his left foot while playing on the left side of City's attack and how it slows play down too much.
So what chance has Hamilton got of being an attacking threat on Blackpools right side when he also has defensive responsibilities!!
So what chance has Hamilton got of being an attacking threat on Blackpools right side when he also has defensive responsibilities!!
midfield general
Well-known member
It was Steve Eyre, whoever he is.
He was right in a lot of what he said particularly with Norburn and CJ , although with ref to Norburn who he said was doing the others job for them, I have a lot of sympathy, he was the captain and he obviously takes that role seriously and in this instance to the detriment of his own game.
A_Tense_Grin
Well-known member
I don’t think people want to understand it because it’s a load of bollocks.Some idiot that doesn't know the meaning of the word "inverted", obviously.
We've had this discussion before, don't get the Sky tv watching text book reading "it doesn't mean what it actually means" lot started again!
I like the 3 5 2 system but please play a right footed player on the right and a left footed on the left
The wing back is a full back/ winger
Would you think inverted fullbacks a good idea because that is what we're playing
Lyons on the right Thompson on the left Tuesday night
The wing back is a full back/ winger
Would you think inverted fullbacks a good idea because that is what we're playing
Lyons on the right Thompson on the left Tuesday night
SwannDangerous
Well-known member
I really don't understand where this even came from for us.
We played with he wingbacks on the opposite sides a couple of times for literally a few halves and then 60 minutes of a game.
We were always worse when playing with the wing backs swapped.
Even when we played for the 60 mins with the inverted, we scored one goal. Then we played 30 mins without the inversion and scored 2 goals.
What the ** fuck? No sense.
City play with inverted forwards, as in forwards on the opposite sides so they can shoot, fine whatever I get that, we did it with Bowler.
They invert their full backs in a different way, whereby they still play on the correct sides, but they just come inside rather than occupying the space out wide.
Correct me if I'm wrong but that is not what we do.
What we so is ** digshit senseless wankerage.
We played with he wingbacks on the opposite sides a couple of times for literally a few halves and then 60 minutes of a game.
We were always worse when playing with the wing backs swapped.
Even when we played for the 60 mins with the inverted, we scored one goal. Then we played 30 mins without the inversion and scored 2 goals.
What the ** fuck? No sense.
City play with inverted forwards, as in forwards on the opposite sides so they can shoot, fine whatever I get that, we did it with Bowler.
They invert their full backs in a different way, whereby they still play on the correct sides, but they just come inside rather than occupying the space out wide.
Correct me if I'm wrong but that is not what we do.
What we so is ** digshit senseless wankerage.
tommytwojags
Well-known member
The 'inverted' expression must have started on here because it makes no sense at all. Let's have a look at some of the best right footers ever who preferred to play on the left: Lionel Messi, Arjen Robben, Cristiano Ronaldo, Franck Ribéry, Neymar Jr. But they're all forwards I hear you say. OK what about defenders? A quick google and there are loads of international right-footed players who have represented their country at left back: Maehle (Denmark), Trippier (England), Spinazzola (Italy) Hubocan (Slovakia). In the last Euros 12% of left backs were right footed.
A talented two footed defender/midfielder like Andy Lyons can play equally well on the left or the right. This is NOT the cause of BFC's current on-field problems.
A talented two footed defender/midfielder like Andy Lyons can play equally well on the left or the right. This is NOT the cause of BFC's current on-field problems.
Matesrates
Well-known member
Mickey Burns used to do it and scored some fantastic.
SpionKop
Well-known member
Mickey Burns oh how we could do with the like in todays “inverted” team
Mark_GT
Well-known member
Dean Saunders was talking about this yesterday in talksport. He said the main reason managers do it is to flood the midfield and create overloads. We can hardly say that option has worked for us, if anything we look at least one player down in midfield and Norburn became the victim of that weakness on Saturday. Saunders also pointed out the obvious flaw when players need to waste time getting onto their stronger foot, also the fact it can dry up the number of decent crosses.
I can't stand our five at the back obsession, but if we are going to persist with it we need wing backs who are high energy and comfortable on either foot. Not many of them around
SpionKop
Well-known member
Interesting that Mark. Or the alternative you don’t cut in but skin the full back and put in a “pony” cross as it’s on your wrong footDean Saunders was talking about this yesterday in talksport. He said the main reason managers do it is to flood the midfield and create overloads. We can hardly say that option has worked for us, if anything we look at least one player down in midfield and Norburn became the victim of that weakness on Saturday. Saunders also pointed out the obvious flaw when players need to waste time getting onto their stronger foot, also the fact it can dry up the number of decent crosses.
I can't stand our five at the back obsession, but if we are going to persist with it we need wing backs who are high energy and comfortable on either foot. Not many of them around
Insider
Well-known member
A couple of years back we had a fairly decent 2 footed winger, Nathan Shaw. He was another young pro that got fed up with not getting a chance and left. He's now doing reasonably well at Inverness playing in the No. 10 role and scored last Saturday.
Josh Miles, who we signed from Southport, and is playing for our u18s, is showing early promise on the left wing and he scored a couple of goals last Saturday against the Nobbers.
Josh Miles, who we signed from Southport, and is playing for our u18s, is showing early promise on the left wing and he scored a couple of goals last Saturday against the Nobbers.
Adams Kebab
Well-known member
I think to play as “inverted wing back” or even wing-back you need to have a footballing brain.
I’m not being harsh when I say that CJ Hamilton is probably one of the worst players I’ve seen professionally with footballing intelligence. He’s completely braindead on a pitch.
This is a major flaw in our current system.
His strengths are raw pace and keeping it simple on his position and where he needs to be. Wing back on the wrong side is confusing the life out of him and this is a player that caught the ball on the pitch last season.
I’m not being harsh when I say that CJ Hamilton is probably one of the worst players I’ve seen professionally with footballing intelligence. He’s completely braindead on a pitch.
This is a major flaw in our current system.
His strengths are raw pace and keeping it simple on his position and where he needs to be. Wing back on the wrong side is confusing the life out of him and this is a player that caught the ball on the pitch last season.
LA1 Seasider
Well-known member
You’re absolutely right. CJ’s biggest flaw appears to be the lack of intelligence. He can get into the right positions but he just doesn’t know what to do once in place. The number of times he makes the wrong pass, fails to make the run or shoots from an impossible angle really beggars belief. I hope once everyone around him gets a little better at what they’re doing and it all becomes second nature to CJ - the fact he won’t have to think may help him be a much better player for us
SpionKop
Well-known member
i agree with both of you on CJ. When you look at him on the pitch he seems like a startled rabbit.
I really think he has regressed from the last time we were in L1.
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A bit undecided on the formation, then ...
SwannDangerous
Well-known member
Forgot to say I was on about during pre season when I was referencing the amount of time we were playing with/without inverted wingbacks
