Is Boris stupid?

Davepick

Well-known member
Boris Johnson keeps going on about having aa arrangement like Canada.
Keeps saying 'Why can't we be like Canada?'
Boris, Canada is not in Europe, we are.
Canada is special in that a great proportion of the residents, or their descendants, are from GB and France, so there is a special relationship.
We are actually in Europe and want out of the EEC. Get the title? EUROPEAN Economic Community. 🙄
 
Why would the EU offer the UK anything like a good deal, it's not in their interest.
The UK must be punished for leaving and I agree! Brexit is the most hideous out come.
 
Wars have started for less (Jenkins’ Ear). Not that I am saying we will end up there, but if Macron’s determination to hold onto current EU fishing rights is matched by Johnson’s stubbornness over British coastal sovereignty, then we could have the hardest of Brexits over a relatively trivial issue. And could be heading for some level of violent confrontations. Bozo is going to need some more Navy coastal cutters.

But I suspect Bozo will sell out the British fishermen at some point in the negotiations. He obviously does not think he has got a high enough price yet from the EU for the sell-out. He’ll try to get the City of London financial passporting rights throughout the EU as the price. Looking after his own and sod the rest.
 
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Wars have started for less (Jenkin’s Ear). Not that I am saying we will end up there, but if Macron’s determination to hold onto current EU fishing rights is matched by Johnson’s sovereign stubbornness over British coastal rights, then we could have the hardest of Brexits over a relatively trivial issue. And could be heading for some level of violent confrontations. Bozo is going to need some more Navy coastal cutters.
Do we still have a Navy?
 
Boris Johnson keeps going on about having aa arrangement like Canada.
Keeps saying 'Why can't we be like Canada?'
Boris, Canada is not in Europe, we are.
Canada is special in that a great proportion of the residents, or their descendants, are from GB and France, so there is a special relationship.
We are actually in Europe and want out of the EEC. Get the title? EUROPEAN Economic Community. 🙄

What point are you making Dave? The UK has said it will settle for a deal like Canada has with the EU. Why should the UK being in Europe have any bearing on that?
 
What we'll end up with is a tariff war, France playing hardball with hauliers and a general rise in the cost of living in this country. Oh, barring the cheaper chlorinated chicken. Can't wait 👍
 
I hope that it is just posturing at the moment from both sides.
Both sides should realise that to scupper the deal over fishing rights would be another act of gross stupidity. The more likely stumbling block is over state aid for industries. But hopefully a deal will be struck, it sounds like we are quite close.
 
OP yes he is.

He is also a proven liar.

Get on with it Boris you've had months and years to sort it you useless Tory 🥺
 
If the official spokesman for No 10 is to be believed the talks are over and it’s No Deal.

Barnier is due on Monday. I wonder whether he’ll get a refund on his Eurostar tickets?
 
Watching him earlier today talk about Andy Burnham having to move on his position, talking about the EU have to move on its position. It’s never him, he has no self-awareness. A cheap firework of a politician with zero diplomatic skills.
 
The EU will string it out as long as they can but their position on fishing is untenable and the 3 year transition already offered is the most likely outcome. Most commentators I've seen suggest that we can concede a little on state aid because EU countries typically offer more state aid than the UK so logically, they would be most likely be the ones in default.
It will be huge embarrassment for the EU if they can't agree a deal. The rest of the world doesn't hold a grudge against the UK and will wonder at the motives and the competency of the Union.
 
The EU will string it out as long as they can but their position on fishing is untenable and the 3 year transition already offered is the most likely outcome. Most commentators I've seen suggest that we can concede a little on state aid because EU countries typically offer more state aid than the UK so logically, they would be most likely be the ones in default.
It will be huge embarrassment for the EU if they can't agree a deal. The rest of the world doesn't hold a grudge against the UK and will wonder at the motives and the competency of the Union.
I think you'll find many countries across the world hold grudges against the UK. Colonialism saw to that.
 
The EU will string it out as long as they can but their position on fishing is untenable and the 3 year transition already offered is the most likely outcome. Most commentators I've seen suggest that we can concede a little on state aid because EU countries typically offer more state aid than the UK so logically, they would be most likely be the ones in default.
It will be huge embarrassment for the EU if they can't agree a deal. The rest of the world doesn't hold a grudge against the UK and will wonder at the motives and the competency of the Union.

We have offered to compromise on state aid, but the EU want their court (ECJ) to police our compliance. They are not happy to accept the UK proposal that compliance be judged by an independent international tribunal, as other international trade disputes are.

It seems that Macron is coming under pressure on fishing, from Germany. The German equivalent of the CBI is alarmed that we are heading for 'no deal', which is in no one's interests.

I hope we can get a deal but when Macron's fisheries minister described British proposals to regain sovereignty over coastal waters and fisheries, under international law, as “unacceptable”, I doubt it. Regaining sovereignty over our own waters is 'unacceptable'? That's some statement.

It's not all Boris's fault this.
 
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I was of the view that a deal would be done with compromise on fishing rights, state aid and the few other outstanding matters but it looks like the EU is insisting the UK gives way on all of these. Macron refuses point blank to give up any of France's fishing quota and with elections due in less than two years he dare not lose the fishing sector vote. Since he has the backing of Ireland, Holland and Denmark it looks increasingly likely that no deal will be struck by 31 December. Shame, but it won't hold the UK back for long. EU governments and businesses will soon realise what they have done when the UK is buying Korean cars, South American wine and Japanese technology. As the Irish foreign minister was heard to say, punishing the UK is just punishing ourselves.
 
I think you'll find many countries across the world hold grudges against the UK. Colonialism saw to that.
I think that's just a narrative played out in a particular political spectrum. In practical terms I know of no country who would put great emphasis on 200 year old history and I've personally never visited anywhere in the world where that mentality holds sway. In fact, it's in this country where those views seem to hold most traction.
 
Boris Johnson keeps going on about having aa arrangement like Canada.
Keeps saying 'Why can't we be like Canada?'
Boris, Canada is not in Europe, we are.
Canada is special in that a great proportion of the residents, or their descendants, are from GB and France, so there is a special relationship.
We are actually in Europe and want out of the EEC. Get the title? EUROPEAN Economic Community. 🙄
Thought it was about business, not where your from.
 
Do we still have a Navy?
Very much so.

Anyway, how do you deal with an organization that is clearly taking the piss?
As I have always said, its more than likely that a deal will be done on the 31st December and brokered by Merkel.
The divorce money is at risk, and a no deal means we will slash business tax and vat to attract business and investment.
In other words, shit just got real.
 
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I think that's just a narrative played out in a particular political spectrum. In practical terms I know of no country who would put great emphasis on 200 year old history and I've personally never visited anywhere in the world where that mentality holds sway. In fact, it's in this country where those views seem to hold most traction.
Sadly, I've had first hand conversations on my travels in some of the world's poorer countries with people who are still very bitter to this day that their country had its wealth stripped by Britain. It's not something you get to hear much about here because it's an uncomfortable truth.
 
Sadly, I've had first hand conversations on my travels in some of the world's poorer countries with people who are still very bitter to this day that their country had its wealth stripped by Britain. It's not something you get to hear much about here because it's an uncomfortable truth.

First hand conversations eh.
Ah well it must be true.
 
So are you seriously denying we as a country stripped others of their resources? Have you not heard of the British Empire? What do you think we were doing in all of those countries?

Tell me what resources we stripped?

Anyway, I was not denying that at all you crazy old man. I was highlighting that one mans experience doesnt make it gospel.
 
Tell me what resources we stripped?

Anyway, I was not denying that at all you crazy old man. I was highlighting that one mans experience doesnt make it gospel.

Tell me what resources we stripped?

£45 trillion from India alone. You idiot.
 
What point are you making Dave? The UK has said it will settle for a deal like Canada has with the EU. Why should the UK being in Europe have any bearing on that?
TTJ, I though itwas implicit in the O/P. Boris keeps saying 'Why can't we have an arrangement like Canada'? Canada is not in Europe, hence the 'Special' arrangement. We are in Europe and either drop out of the EEC altogether, or remain under the current arrangements.
Seems fairly straight forward to me.
 
So are you seriously denying we as a country stripped others of their resources? Have you not heard of the British Empire? What do you think we were doing in all of those countries?

£45 trillion from India alone. You idiot.


Yes, we almost destroyed India. Just look for example at the mess we left them in.

Language. The English language taught to Indians opened the doors of the world to the country, helped in improving knowledge and thought process and allowed the population to read and appreciate the most famous literary works of the world.

Railways. The founding stone of one of the largest railway networks in the world was laid by the British. Most of the central stations were the work of the British Infrastructure

Army. The pride and honor of the Indian nation, the Indian army, was formed with British training and discipline, the culture of its army practices still persist today.

Sanitation. Britain helped combat illnesses such as the smallpox epidemic. Britain passed a Compulsory Vaccination Act in India in 1892 and set up ‘Sanitary Commissioners’ in the various regions to keep a check on the disease by setting up dispensaries.

Social practices. Britain directed the removal of social practices like Sati, child marriage, untouchability. Not only did they ban such cruel inhumane practices, they also promoted a widow’s remarriage and passed many acts and ordinances to eradicate abhorrent social practices.

Census. The British started the census in 1871 in India to collect the statistical data of age, gender, religion, caste, occupation, education of the population

Geography. Britain set up the department of Geographical Survey of India in 1851, the institution surveyed villages, cities, and made maps of India. Many places use the same maps today which were made during the British time. Using advanced surveying instruments, the British surveyed every inch of India.

Trade. The British East India Company came to India as traders in spices, a very important commodity in Europe back then as it was used to preserve meat and with other British companies brought money and prosperity to parts of India, helping to create India’s important trading position in the world.
 
First hand conversations eh.
Ah well it must be true.
Astounding naivity. It's unbelievable to me to think you don't actually know something so fundamental to our own British history. Try travelling to places like Zimbabwe, Kenya, India or West Indies etc. and ask some of the poor locals what they think about British colonialism and what it did to their land. You'll quickly find out.
 

£45 trillion from India alone. You idiot.

45 trillion pounds 😀. Are you Doctor Evil?
Crazy old man.
 
Astounding naivity. It's unbelievable to me to think you don't actually know something so fundamental to our own British history. Try travelling to places like Zimbabwe, Kenya, India or West Indies etc. and ask some of the poor locals what they think about British colonialism and what it did to their land. You'll quickly find out.

Yeah its usually the first conversation that pops up.
Excuse me mate..sorry do you speak english? Yeah? Good ok, do you think I am a complete bastard ?

😂 ffs
 



Yes, we almost destroyed India. Just look for example at the mess we left them in.

Language. The English language taught to Indians opened the doors of the world to the country, helped in improving knowledge and thought process and allowed the population to read and appreciate the most famous literary works of the world.

Railways. The founding stone of one of the largest railway networks in the world was laid by the British. Most of the central stations were the work of the British Infrastructure

Army. The pride and honor of the Indian nation, the Indian army, was formed with British training and discipline, the culture of its army practices still persist today.

Sanitation. Britain helped combat illnesses such as the smallpox epidemic. Britain passed a Compulsory Vaccination Act in India in 1892 and set up ‘Sanitary Commissioners’ in the various regions to keep a check on the disease by setting up dispensaries.

Social practices. Britain directed the removal of social practices like Sati, child marriage, untouchability. Not only did they ban such cruel inhumane practices, they also promoted a widow’s remarriage and passed many acts and ordinances to eradicate abhorrent social practices.

Census. The British started the census in 1871 in India to collect the statistical data of age, gender, religion, caste, occupation, education of the population

Geography. Britain set up the department of Geographical Survey of India in 1851, the institution surveyed villages, cities, and made maps of India. Many places use the same maps today which were made during the British time. Using advanced surveying instruments, the British surveyed every inch of India.

Trade. The British East India Company came to India as traders in spices, a very important commodity in Europe back then as it was used to preserve meat and with other British companies brought money and prosperity to parts of India, helping to create India’s important trading position in the world.
I didn't say we didn't provide any benefits. I provided evidence of taking from the country which was apparently in question. You Tories love an Empire but are seemingly in denial that there was any downside for the locals.
 
Yeah its usually the first conversation that pops up.
Excuse me mate..sorry do you speak english? Yeah? Good ok, do you think I am a complete bastard ?

😂 ffs
It tended to start off with an innocent conversation, then they ask where you are from, then they hit you with a tirade of uncomfortable truth about Britain's past.
 
Of course we SHOULD be able to sign a Canada style deal, but the EU are being deliberately stubborn / obtrusive to set an example to other countries considering leaving the club.
I believe a deal will be struck at a later date. Maybe individually, as France are the main blockers to a deal.
 



Yes, we almost destroyed India. Just look for example at the mess we left them in.

Language. The English language taught to Indians opened the doors of the world to the country, helped in improving knowledge and thought process and allowed the population to read and appreciate the most famous literary works of the world.

Railways. The founding stone of one of the largest railway networks in the world was laid by the British. Most of the central stations were the work of the British Infrastructure

Army. The pride and honor of the Indian nation, the Indian army, was formed with British training and discipline, the culture of its army practices still persist today.

Sanitation. Britain helped combat illnesses such as the smallpox epidemic. Britain passed a Compulsory Vaccination Act in India in 1892 and set up ‘Sanitary Commissioners’ in the various regions to keep a check on the disease by setting up dispensaries.

Social practices. Britain directed the removal of social practices like Sati, child marriage, untouchability. Not only did they ban such cruel inhumane practices, they also promoted a widow’s remarriage and passed many acts and ordinances to eradicate abhorrent social practices.

Census. The British started the census in 1871 in India to collect the statistical data of age, gender, religion, caste, occupation, education of the population

Geography. Britain set up the department of Geographical Survey of India in 1851, the institution surveyed villages, cities, and made maps of India. Many places use the same maps today which were made during the British time. Using advanced surveying instruments, the British surveyed every inch of India.

Trade. The British East India Company came to India as traders in spices, a very important commodity in Europe back then as it was used to preserve meat and with other British companies brought money and prosperity to parts of India, helping to create India’s important trading position in the world.
India gained independence in 1947. That wouldn't have happened if the benefits to them of British rule had outweighed the negatives.

By the way, smallpox was only eradicated in India in 1979 so some generations after the British had left.
 
I think that's just a narrative played out in a particular political spectrum. In practical terms I know of no country who would put great emphasis on 200 year old history and I've personally never visited anywhere in the world where that mentality holds sway. In fact, it's in this country where those views seem to hold most traction.
200 years ago? The Mau Mau rising was 1952 till 1960, colonialism was rife before the 2nd works war, Irish issues within my lifetime, 3 million Bengalis starved in 1943 and Indian partitioning in 1947 caused up to 2 million deaths. Chuck a bit of the middle East Israeli/palestinian issues into the mix as well, the Malayan conflict where we used and abused the communists in the war then stitched them up (my father in law fought in that as a conscript)
You might think we are well respected and they might be pleasant to your face but the West have short memories, they don't. Keep rewriting history it's in our genes.
 
Of course we SHOULD be able to sign a Canada style deal, but the EU are being deliberately stubborn / obtrusive to set an example to other countries considering leaving the club.
I believe a deal will be struck at a later date. Maybe individually, as France are the main blockers to
The EU are protecting their position, that's it. That isn't being awkward at all, thats "project fear" and "scaremongering" coming home to roost.
 
India gained independence in 1947. That wouldn't have happened if the benefits to them of British rule had outweighed the negatives.

By the way, smallpox was only eradicated in India in 1979 so some generations after the British had left.

What we did to India was what the Romans did to us. Both benefited. Stop trying to change history.
 
What we did to India was what the Romans did to us. Both benefited. Stop trying to change history.
And stop trying to deny that we took anything from them. Remember the Ghandi quote that was always bandied about in relation to the fans and Oyston. It was aimed at the British Empire.
 
Of course we SHOULD be able to sign a Canada style deal, but the EU are being deliberately stubborn / obtrusive to set an example to other countries considering leaving the club.
I believe a deal will be struck at a later date. Maybe individually, as France are the main blockers to a deal.

It seems increasingly unlikely that a deal will be struck while Macron has a say in matters. The other leaders are pushing him to soften his demands but he has made promises to the powerful French fishing industry that he is under immense pressure to keep. The media are reporting that Merkel has reminded Macron that a reduced quota deal on fishing is better than a complete ban from UK waters. Ireland, Holland and Denmark already know this.

1st Jan 2021 is a deadline in name, but you are right that a trade deal with the EU can be struck at any time after that date. However, the EU leaders know it's going to be much harder to appease the UK later, especially if by then it's trading within the TPP and CANZUK. I get the impression that over the past few weeks Boris has become less and less enamoured by Barnier forcing the UK to compromise on all the contentious issues and can see the enormous trading opportunities outside the EU.
 
Tell me what resources we stripped?

Anyway, I was not denying that at all you crazy old man. I was highlighting that one mans experience doesnt make it gospel.
Ladies and gentlemen, with a world of information at his/her fingertips they exist, the good old British education system.
What we did to India was what the Romans did to us. Both benefited. Stop trying to change history.
Bit of a different timescale, people like you are keen to remind us that historical events don't count. Just remind me when the Romans occupied Britain and we occupied India.
 
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