Is this the road to a European super league?

It's stopped the proposed super league these changes to the CL more likely the PL goes down to 18 like the top clubs want no wonder the Palace chairman is worried all about self-interest.
 
The fact that they are using phrases like "superior historical co-efficient" should tell you all you need to know.

It's a device to involve more hand-picked clubs, playing in a format that will be heavily rigged in the favour of a select few. A Super League by proxy, diluted just enough to disguise the taste. Eventually, they'll find a way to get Juventus past the last 16.....
 
basilrobbie said:
The fact that they are using phrases like "superior historical co-efficient" should tell you all you need to know.

It's a device to involve more hand-picked clubs, playing in a format that will be heavily rigged in the favour of a select few. A Super League by proxy, diluted just enough to disguise the taste. Eventually, they'll find a way to get Juventus past the last 16.....
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Get rid of Ronaldo. 😂
 
What do the media moguls want though, they seem to rule the sport? I thought they wanted super leagues to razzmatazz (Great Nazareth Album) the armchair supporter and those billions of people who have to support a club because they are the "Best"

It could be a compromise but I think it is a good few steps on the road to the breakaway leagues.

If so how do you see the remaining football pyramid coping, will it be a good or a bad thing? Is it too divisive or will it bring football back to the people outside of these plastic leagues?
 
The moment they start handing places to clubs based on their history rather than their league position, you remove the very reason for the league competition itself. There would be no value to winning points any more, there would be no reason for clubs to better themselves as they'd have nothing to strive for. It would be a ridiculous thing to bring in if you have any concern for the future of the game.
 
BFC_53 said:
The moment they start handing places to clubs based on their history rather than their league position, you remove the very reason for the league competition itself. There would be no value to winning points any more, there would be no reason for clubs to better themselves as they'd have nothing to strive for. It would be a ridiculous thing to bring in if you have any concern for the future of the game.
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So would football be better off if these teams did break away to their so called elite leagues leaving a reformed Premier League and football pyramid?

My own thoughts are that it would be better for football if they did go and we have a restructured league. But I would want the "Elite" league to have nothing to do with the Football league. If they go, they go. They can play their Manchester United home games in Dubai or wherever they want around the world. Bring in their own rules and gimmicks. But the players who play in these "elite" leagues can't play for their countries that will be the honour bestowed on those in the Football leagues who aren't part of the "elite" leagues. There is no way back for them, they pays their money and takes their chance.

It may seem radical but maybe it would make football more affordable, wages more sensible and grounds actually fuller. It is likely to see the rise of new teams from the areas that will have left for pastures new as many supporters, already disenfranchised by the way their clubs are run will want to be part of being in a ground where they can be football supporters, not priced out by corporate or the mega wealthy which is a problem now.

I would be glad to be shot of them to be honest.

😴😴😴😴 I just woke up....... what a lovely dream!
 
It's all a load of elitist bollocks really.

'Historical co-efficient' is laughable and of course will be selective anyway, you can't imagine Forest or Villa being allowed in despite having won it whereas Citeh will be welcomed with open arms.

You do have to feel sympathy for the paid up fans of these clubs, I'm not sure your died in the wool Liverpool fan (for example) would be too happy schlepping it to Milan every fortnight.
 
BFC_53 said:
The moment they start handing places to clubs based on their history rather than their league position, you remove the very reason for the league competition itself. There would be no value to winning points any more, there would be no reason for clubs to better themselves as they'd have nothing to strive for. It would be a ridiculous thing to bring in if you have any concern for the future of the game.
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But, but, but, I want to see the best play each other...

😂😂
 
hertfordseasider said:
So would football be better off if these teams did break away to their so called elite leagues leaving a reformed Premier League and football pyramid?

My own thoughts are that it would be better for football if they did go and we have a restructured league. But I would want the "Elite" league to have nothing to do with the Football league. If they go, they go. They can play their Manchester United home games in Dubai or wherever they want around the world. Bring in their own rules and gimmicks. But the players who play in these "elite" leagues can't play for their countries that will be the honour bestowed on those in the Football leagues who aren't part of the "elite" leagues. There is no way back for them, they pays their money and takes their chance.

It may seem radical but maybe it would make football more affordable, wages more sensible and grounds actually fuller. It is likely to see the rise of new teams from the areas that will have left for pastures new as many supporters, already disenfranchised by the way their clubs are run will want to be part of being in a ground where they can be football supporters, not priced out by corporate or the mega wealthy which is a problem now.

I would be glad to be shot of them to be honest.

😴😴😴😴 I just woke up....... what a lovely dream!
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I have the same thoughts Herts. And if the EPL don't have the balls to cut them off I reckon the EFL should basically go it alone. Football has lost its soul in the top tier and especially amongst the so called 'big clubs'. In this brave new world the Championship winners would become the champions. Let's not forget the EFL is the second biggest league structure in the world in terms of supporters. The biggest relative strength for clubs is what I would call 'localisation' and by re-engaging with their local communities and turning clubs into community focused assets it should ultimately lead to an increase in the local support base and a reduction in the number of glory hunter 'big club' followers. Another obvious area to differentiate on is treating supporters as supporters of the club rather than just 'customers' to be exploited to the max. Luckily we have an owner who is making get strides in these areas already...
 
hertfordseasider said:
So would football be better off if these teams did break away to their so called elite leagues leaving a reformed Premier League and football pyramid?

My own thoughts are that it would be better for football if they did go and we have a restructured league. But I would want the "Elite" league to have nothing to do with the Football league. If they go, they go. They can play their Manchester United home games in Dubai or wherever they want around the world. Bring in their own rules and gimmicks. But the players who play in these "elite" leagues can't play for their countries that will be the honour bestowed on those in the Football leagues who aren't part of the "elite" leagues. There is no way back for them, they pays their money and takes their chance.

It may seem radical but maybe it would make football more affordable, wages more sensible and grounds actually fuller. It is likely to see the rise of new teams from the areas that will have left for pastures new as many supporters, already disenfranchised by the way their clubs are run will want to be part of being in a ground where they can be football supporters, not priced out by corporate or the mega wealthy which is a problem now.

I would be glad to be shot of them to be honest.

😴😴😴😴 I just woke up....... what a lovely dream!
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I have a lot of sympathy with that view, but wonder how far it will hamstring the English National side if the elite players are not available.
 
Completely agree

Let the greedy ones go and forget about them
Manchester-based real football fans rally around a new club etc etc, or even FCOM
Invite the non-elite Prem clubs to rejoin the football league
Rebuild around community ownership and a fair distribution model
Spending and salary caps with a super tax for those who want to spend more, feeding into a community facilities / youth dev fund
Cap the number of youth players allowed at clubs
Ban 'European' UK club players from playing for national teams at any level
Watch as the elite clubs start wars over finances, oil, territory, religion and the rest
Legislate to prevent any of this nonsense happening again
 
hertfordseasider said:
So would football be better off if these teams did break away to their so called elite leagues leaving a reformed Premier League and football pyramid?

My own thoughts are that it would be better for football if they did go and we have a restructured league. But I would want the "Elite" league to have nothing to do with the Football league. If they go, they go. They can play their Manchester United home games in Dubai or wherever they want around the world. Bring in their own rules and gimmicks. But the players who play in these "elite" leagues can't play for their countries that will be the honour bestowed on those in the Football leagues who aren't part of the "elite" leagues. There is no way back for them, they pays their money and takes their chance.

It may seem radical but maybe it would make football more affordable, wages more sensible and grounds actually fuller. It is likely to see the rise of new teams from the areas that will have left for pastures new as many supporters, already disenfranchised by the way their clubs are run will want to be part of being in a ground where they can be football supporters, not priced out by corporate or the mega wealthy which is a problem now.

I would be glad to be shot of them to be honest.

😴😴😴😴 I just woke up....... what a lovely dream!
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i would agree with that as well. The proposals are not just a path to a superleague but towards a franchised league. If Manures American owners and the russian, Arab and and other corporate entitities and equity funds that are involved in football at the highest level, want a more protected source of income from the game which is what they really want then give it to them and exclude them from national leagues. The FA, and FL administrators are complicit in these plans as the people who run football are only concerned with financial success.

It would last a decade at most and then all these teams would be end up based out of Dubai or Singapur or someplace in the states with a friendly tax regime. The administration of the league will become a corporate entity owned by a hedge fund or something similar. I can imagine the advertising, Dubai's Red Devils United vs Singapur Sant Germaine this week at Las Vegas Bowl, sponsored by a myriad of tax evading global companies. Played in a 100,000 seat stadium of which all but 5000 are are reserved for sponsors and then pay per view for anyone who might actually be interested.
 
All good points as always folks.

Costero, I remember a friend of mine saying something similar a few years ago, he could see a time in a "super league" or whatever you want to call it, where individual club identity stops and the teams became regional. The type of corporate game you mention above - wwich I think is sadly a real possibility - wouldn't care that London has 4 , 5, 6 top flight clubs, they would just want the best players against the best. Not a mile away from what Kerry Packer did with the cricket, although he at least kept the team identities (but I am struggling to see how you can re-name Australia and the West Indies, but I do have some alternatives for Australia at least!)

The bit that really mystifies me - I think Lytham touched on above. My only concern is for the game as I know it, if any club wants to go down this route then fine do that, but shut the door on your way out and don't bother coming back. I love the proper English 1st Division, the whole set up of the game as it was, but I was a fan of a team that was never going to trouble that area back then, so like with the formation of the Prem - massively against it in its current structure and modus operandi, but it wasn't going to affect me at the time. Let them get on with it.

But what do actual genuine fans of the top clubs really think? I've wondered that right through the Premiership years. Man City for example, I used to watch them every once in a while, and generally everyone felt a bit sorry for them, mainly because unless you're actually a United fan then no-one I've ever met has any time for United, me definitely included. City had big support, were generally very average throughout the whole of the 80-90s, but no-one particularly wished them any bad because they weren't doing any harm to anyone. Their fans often enjoyed seeing Utd lose more than them playing well, it seemed to me.

Now, they've changed so far, they can't even see that they've become a carbon copy of what they despised about Utd. But it's acceptable now because they're one of the top teams in the land.

All the clubs are paying the daft wages, everyone says how bad it is for the game, including fans of the top clubs I'm sure. Until it comes to their own club doing it to keep pace, then it's OK.

Summary - if the game we know is to survive with as many current clubs as possible, then I think let whoever go off to their fantasy land. Enough money will still be around that the game continues at a good competitive national level, but without the ridiculous overspend we currently have. It'll take years to restabilise of course, but it can happen.
 
Some excellent contributions on here but really what does anyone expect? Its all underpinned by folk paying for subscription TV and until that changes money will continue to destroy the traditional game.

If you pay for Sky etc then you're part of the problem
 
hertfordseasider said:
So would football be better off if these teams did break away to their so called elite leagues leaving a reformed Premier League and football pyramid?

My own thoughts are that it would be better for football if they did go and we have a restructured league. But I would want the "Elite" league to have nothing to do with the Football league. If they go, they go. They can play their Manchester United home games in Dubai or wherever they want around the world. Bring in their own rules and gimmicks. But the players who play in these "elite" leagues can't play for their countries that will be the honour bestowed on those in the Football leagues who aren't part of the "elite" leagues. There is no way back for them, they pays their money and takes their chance.

It may seem radical but maybe it would make football more affordable, wages more sensible and grounds actually fuller. It is likely to see the rise of new teams from the areas that will have left for pastures new as many supporters, already disenfranchised by the way their clubs are run will want to be part of being in a ground where they can be football supporters, not priced out by corporate or the mega wealthy which is a problem now.

I would be glad to be shot of them to be honest.

😴😴😴😴 I just woke up....... what a lovely dream!
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All good and well, but that dream will turn into a nightmare. Money domestically would fall drastically and take out a lot of clubs.

My understanding is this CL is the prelude to a full ESL 1 & 2, which will have some kind of promotion and relegation, meaning the PL clubs not in the ESL- 14 now would all be wanting to get to the ESL (owners more than fans), hence any money in the domestic game will still gravitate to the PL. There won't be any wealth redistribution going on, and the poorer get pooper.
 
Plumbs said:
Some excellent contributions on here but really what does anyone expect? Its all underpinned by folk paying for subscription TV and until that changes money will continue to destroy the traditional game.

If you pay for Sky etc then you're part of the problem
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Sky will be small fry when it happens. It will be Amazon and netflix, as it stands now, but without doubt other players will come in to the market.

I fully expect Sky to launch a 'Save Our Football' campaign in order to protect subscription levels and charged consumer costs.
 
fcblackpool said:
Sky will be small fry when it happens. It will be Amazon and netflix, as it stands now, but without doubt other players will come in to the market.

I fully expect Sky to launch a 'Save Our Football' campaign in order to protect subscription levels and charged consumer costs.
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I think the Sky model is doomed regardless, if Amazon can stream games advert free for £10 a month (with all the other Amazon benefits) why are people going to keep paying Sky £100 for their advert laden coverage? If Amazon or Netflix want to bid seriously for it then Sky are done, they're already small fry compared to those two.
 
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Plumbs said:
Some excellent contributions on here but really what does anyone expect? Its all underpinned by folk paying for subscription TV and until that changes money will continue to destroy the traditional game.

If you pay for Sky etc then you're part of the problem
Click to expand...

This is a hard message for some to hear. But I think it is the right one.
 
We've had this debate before. My position is unchanged. Clubs can leave if they want, but go in the knowledge that they can't come back.

I won't be watching. Just don't see the attraction.

Why would I want to support a league that is actively trying to prevent my club from joining it. Entry via historic significance? How are Man City getting in? For 3 of the last 4 decades they've been mediocre at best.
 
Wizaard said:
We've had this debate before. My position is unchanged. Clubs can leave if they want, but go in the knowledge that they can't come back.

I won't be watching. Just don't see the attraction.

Why would I want to support a league that is actively trying to prevent my club from joining it. Entry via historic significance? How are Man City getting in? For 3 of the last 4 decades they've been mediocre at best.
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PSG as well, not exactly a glorious European history, but they'll be in.
 
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