Just back

I've defended Appleton and desperately wanted him to succeed. If we're going more direct, can we not just play wingers wide in a 4 and Madine and Beesley together as a front 2 ?

Don't over complicate things and have the balls to leave one of Beesley, Madine or Yates out.
 
We gave them a game early doors of the first half and pretty much controlled the 2nd half.

SU spoiled the game and broke up play every time we threatened to go forward. So they were able to re-group and re-position 10 behind the ball.

It's a cold hard fact; with key players missing the current squad is having to play at 110% every game just to compete.

Whenever we come up a little short we give away a silly foul or collect an injury. You just cant run on full cylinders + 10% all game, every game.

But they are competing.

I've been consistent on this point - were at the money end of the squad and SS needs to go big or go home.
 
SlaveToTheRythm said:
We gave them a game early doors of the first half and pretty much controlled the 2nd half.

SU spoiled the game and broke up play every time we threatened to go forward. So they were able to re-group and re-position 10 behind the ball.

It's a cold hard fact; with key players missing the current squad is having to play at 110% every game just to compete.

Whenever we come up a little short we give away a silly foul or collect an injury. You just cant run on full cylinders + 10% all game, every game.

But they are competing.

I've been consistent on this point - were at the money end of the squad and SS needs to go big or go home.
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The ref allowed them to stroll off with the ball time and time again, both time-wasting and breaking up momentum, yet added next to nothing in injury time. The one time Husband wrestled the ball off them, he got the talking to. Compare and contrast with the 10 mins added at Bramall Lane. The amount of times they fouled Poveda as he got into his stride beggars belief. There is no way that any of our players would have been allowed to break 90 yards and score. There would be a foul early on.

Naivety on our part.
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
I actually think the blinkered people are the ones expecting us to play like 1970s Brazil with a team playing their second season in the Championship with one of the lowest budgets in the league and missing key players in key positions

At the start of the season we needed a right back, still not got one, we needed strength in centre midfield, not got that either and we needed a proper creative replacement for Bowler (our best players by a million miles)

We played OK last night against one of the best teams in the league, the players probably played to their maximum ability

We just got edged out be a better side
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Fighting spirit I would agree with, we showed that against Hull also. But when your manager gets so much wrong and continually uses square pegs in round holes because he's too stubborn to see this squad cannot play 433! He's every bit as much to blame as the players because pretty much the same players did well last season. Absolving Appleton of blame is silly, he's the single biggest issue.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
I suspect that’s right. Although another view point is that being involved in a relegation dogfight is exactly the character building experience a young player should have.
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I read a debate on the internet before he'd even signed for us and there were plenty of Arsenal supporters who thought he'd be better having a year in the French or Belgium top divisions than the Championship.

I can definitely hear what you say re character building, maybe our style of play didn't matter as his loan spell was going to toughen him up but now we are in a relegation battle, things will become all about our survival and that - for his Arsenal future - he's better off elsewhere ?
 
NewburyOne said:
It's amazing how blinkered some people can be. That performance was woeful, other than effort it was lacking in any real quality or tactical nouse. Our central midfield is weak, playing strikers on the wing, Madine isolated and our defence totally exposed. Yet you think playing 3 strikers and a winger in the middle of the pitch brave. I'd call it desperately poor tactics. Appleton is as clueless as the goons still backing him.
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I'd say you are equally blinkered in the opposite direction.
 
the_stockport_one said:
WBA fans said what options do we have, and how they have changed it round since the manager left.
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I'm not saying we should or shouldn't sack Appleton but I'm thinking you need a bigger sample than one to support your argument.

How did Remi Garde do at the Villa when he replaced Tim Sherwood ?
 
Voice of Reason said:
I'd say you are equally blinkered in the opposite direction.
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I can't stand the bloke, he's utterly useless as a coach, manager and motivator. He hides behind excuses and hasn't brought a single positive to our club. Convince me otherwise? Where have we improved? Which player is being well coached and has improved? What light can you see at the end of this winless tunnel? So yes, my mind is firmly made up, I just want someone to say why they think this clown should be given more time and trusted with another transfer window. What are you seeing on the pitch that warrants it?
 
SEASIDE2020 said:
I read a debate on the internet before he'd even signed for us and there were plenty of Arsenal supporters who thought he'd be better having a year in the French or Belgium top divisions than the Championship.

I can definitely hear what you say re character building, maybe our style of play didn't matter as his loan spell was going to toughen him up but now we are in a relegation battle, things will become all about our survival and that - for his Arsenal future - he's better off elsewhere ?
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He just keeps giving the ball away that's more of a concern to me rather than his physical presence
 
NewburyOne said:
Fighting spirit I would agree with, we showed that against Hull also. But when your manager gets so much wrong and continually uses square pegs in round holes because he's too stubborn to see this squad cannot play 433! He's every bit as much to blame as the players because pretty much the same players did well last season. Absolving Appleton of blame is silly, he's the single biggest issue.
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It's nothing like last season and it's even more silly to think 442 would work given we have a weak midfield and have lost our 2 wingers from last season in Bowler and Keshi
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
I didn't hear any of that in the South and I'm glad I didn't or they would have got a right gob full

Yet again I saw players in Tangerine trying their bollux off
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Bloody hell Phil
You have gone from someone I ignored to one of my favourite posters.
Also really get annoyed when people say he has lost the dressing room, the team were as you said trying their Bollux off, which would not be happening if they wanted him out.
Played an attacking line up, good use of subs, Poveda was far more influential in the middle of the park than he would have been out wide and reminded me of Wes.
The crap Appleton is getting reflects badly on the fanbase, who seem hell bent on getting rid, while some alternatives they offer are laughable
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
It's not poorly judged at all

Critchley had backing from the board Appleton hasn't had that

So I will judge the manager once he can get some better players in
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Yeah, it’s a real shame Appleton hasn’t managed to make any signings, especially permanent ones.

The squad overall is arguably stronger than last seasons.

Not winning in 8 games is sackable at any other club, he needs to go ASAP and take his depressing attitude with him.
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
It's nothing like last season and it's even more silly to think 442 would work given we have a weak midfield and have lost our 2 wingers from last season in Bowler and Keshi
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442 could hardly produce worse results than Appleton's 433 now could it? Both Poveda and CJ were fit last night, Madine or Beesley alongside our best striker Yates. Carey and Patino are not a midfield pair, as much as we need better, it has to be Dougall and Patino until we do. That would offer the defence a little more protection and would also mean every player, barring Connolly who has done very well, is in their best positions. I wouldn't call that silly.
 
NewburyOne said:
442 could hardly produce worse results than Appleton's 433 now could it? Both Poveda and CJ were fit last night, Madine or Beesley alongside our best striker Yates. Carey and Patino are not a midfield pair, as much as we need better, it has to be Dougall and Patino until we do. That would offer the defence a little more protection and would also mean every player, barring Connolly who has done very well, is in their best positions. I wouldn't call that silly.
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Appleton has reverted to a 442 in situations three times this season we haven't been overrun in midfield in any of them
 
I’ve nothing against the players trying last night, and we made a game of it. However, I don’t understand the formation selection last night. Carey and Patino in midfield was as weak as it gets -why was Dougall not there with them? He’s the nearest we’ve got to a midfielder with bite. We then bring him on when we’re trailing and take Patino off. At times, United just ran past those two without a tackle being made. Why have Poveda in the middle? Beesley on the right who had a very average game?
Last night’s selection smacked of desperation and gambling, I don’t see any system or style of play Appleton is trying to instill.
If I was one of the Sheffield full backs I’d have loved playing against Thompson and Connolly last night as there was no real threat from them going forward. No overlapping (CJ and Poveda on either side a better idea?)
We look clueless at the moment, and that is down to the manager.
God help us if Madine gets injured, as without him the ball will be coming back even more frequently.
I accept Sheffield United look like a team ready for promotion, and we’ve not the same calibre of players, but I don’t accept us looking like there’s no game plan or something that is being worked on that will eventually pay off.
 
Appleton has no fans, he just has excusers and ‘explainers’. There is always an excuse or an explanation as to why we continue to be unable to deliver a win at home time after time after time.
 
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1966_and_all_that said:
If it's true it would be reasonable to think that Arsenal don't believe his development is best served in the current environment.
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I think a case of never going back unless we were in a relegation battle and with that now obvious so the grim returner may appear.

Yet do the business early and get the midfield working as a midfield, not a dog's dinner and he won't go.
 
NewburyOne said:
I can't stand the bloke, he's utterly useless as a coach, manager and motivator. He hides behind excuses and hasn't brought a single positive to our club. Convince me otherwise? Where have we improved? Which player is being well coached and has improved? What light can you see at the end of this winless tunnel? So yes, my mind is firmly made up, I just want someone to say why they think this clown should be given more time and trusted with another transfer window. What are you seeing on the pitch that warrants it?
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All fair comments, and greetings from close-ish to Newbury :)

My thoughts are thus. I think NC was an inspired and great appointment, perfect for us in every way that Grayson and most of our preceding Managers hadn't been. It was a project and he would be given a lot of leeway because we were all reading from the same page. Football being what it is, every decision is primarily motivated by money, not much to say there ... 95% or so of us make the decisions on the same basis. However the manner and timing of his leaving reflect very badly on NC. Where would we have been had he stayed? We'll never know. He shafted us. In more ways than one. Cocker.

So. Cut adrift, mid project. We need another Manager pronto. Now believe it or not, BFC is not an attractive proposition. We have a limited pull punter wise and are not an attractive proposition despite what others would have you believe. Aside from the usual dead legs, I suspect there was a very limited pool of candidates. Pointless speculating here, but naysayers will always claim things would have been better if we had got the other bloke. Usually someone who had played for us in the past, or cut the Bloomfield Road grass etc.

After the final bullshittery of NC I expect Appleton seemed a safe option. I didn't think it was an inspiring choice, but given the paucity of options I wasn't unhappy. Regards the long contract, it doesn't matter. We don't know the truth, and contracts will always end in a negotiation when the time comes.

MA has had to deal with the sale of JB (understandable and unavoidable), the loss of Keogh (major), countless injuries to key players, loan players not working out too well, idiotic red cards and a real slump in form. Also an owner who will not commit unrealistic resources to the football club. Who would? We have been a team on the slide and it's tough to stop that when you keep getting hit with these issues, alongside the lack of support from the fanbase. MA has to take some blame also. I cannot understand why we give the ball away so much. Drives me mad.

So ... where do we go from here? Sack MA? Who would take the job? Let's forget the daft suggestions (Ollie, Charlie etc etc)
Would it not be better to stick with your Manager and support him in the January window? What kind of Manager that we might get would be able to reinvigorate the same set of players to battle to keep us up.

My decision would be based on one criteria. Are the players behind him? No one on AVFTT knows. Last two games I have seen a reaction that would make me think they are. I think a new manager at this point is as likely to relegate us as sticking with MA is. I guess sacking him might make a few on here feel justified though.
 
SEASIDE2020 said:
I read a debate on the internet before he'd even signed for us and there were plenty of Arsenal supporters who thought he'd be better having a year in the French or Belgium top divisions than the Championship.

I can definitely hear what you say re character building, maybe our style of play didn't matter as his loan spell was going to toughen him up but now we are in a relegation battle, things will become all about our survival and that - for his Arsenal future - he's better off elsewhere ?
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And Arsenal don’t want to be associated with a potential relegation side I suppose.
 
Voice of Reason said:
All fair comments, and greetings from close-ish to Newbury :)

My thoughts are thus. I think NC was an inspired and great appointment, perfect for us in every way that Grayson and most of our preceding Managers hadn't been. It was a project and he would be given a lot of leeway because we were all reading from the same page. Football being what it is, every decision is primarily motivated by money, not much to say there ... 95% or so of us make the decisions on the same basis. However the manner and timing of his leaving reflect very badly on NC. Where would we have been had he stayed? We'll never know. He shafted us. In more ways than one. Cocker.

So. Cut adrift, mid project. We need another Manager pronto. Now believe it or not, BFC is not an attractive proposition. We have a limited pull punter wise and are not an attractive proposition despite what others would have you believe. Aside from the usual dead legs, I suspect there was a very limited pool of candidates. Pointless speculating here, but naysayers will always claim things would have been better if we had got the other bloke. Usually someone who had played for us in the past, or cut the Bloomfield Road grass etc.

After the final bullshittery of NC I expect Appleton seemed a safe option. I didn't think it was an inspiring choice, but given the paucity of options I wasn't unhappy. Regards the long contract, it doesn't matter. We don't know the truth, and contracts will always end in a negotiation when the time comes.

MA has had to deal with the sale of JB (understandable and unavoidable), the loss of Keogh (major), countless injuries to key players, loan players not working out too well, idiotic red cards and a real slump in form. Also an owner who will not commit unrealistic resources to the football club. Who would? We have been a team on the slide and it's tough to stop that when you keep getting hit with these issues, alongside the lack of support from the fanbase. MA has to take some blame also. I cannot understand why we give the ball away so much. Drives me mad.

So ... where do we go from here? Sack MA? Who would take the job? Let's forget the daft suggestions (Ollie, Charlie etc etc)
Would it not be better to stick with your Manager and support him in the January window? What kind of Manager that we might get would be able to reinvigorate the same set of players to battle to keep us up.

My decision would be based on one criteria. Are the players behind him? No one on AVFTT knows. Last two games I have seen a reaction that would make me think they are. I think a new manager at this point is as likely to relegate us as sticking with MA is. I guess sacking him might make a few on here feel justified though.
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You offer a Hobson's choice but it's realistic all the same.
 
The set up was like Mike Basset without the talent. All the observations in the World don’t get past the manager is utterly clueless. You can make a grazzilion signings, you can have as many mini breaks in Spain as you like, he is not good enough.
 
Voice of Reason said:
All fair comments, and greetings from close-ish to Newbury :)

My thoughts are thus. I think NC was an inspired and great appointment, perfect for us in every way that Grayson and most of our preceding Managers hadn't been. It was a project and he would be given a lot of leeway because we were all reading from the same page. Football being what it is, every decision is primarily motivated by money, not much to say there ... 95% or so of us make the decisions on the same basis. However the manner and timing of his leaving reflect very badly on NC. Where would we have been had he stayed? We'll never know. He shafted us. In more ways than one. Cocker.

So. Cut adrift, mid project. We need another Manager pronto. Now believe it or not, BFC is not an attractive proposition. We have a limited pull punter wise and are not an attractive proposition despite what others would have you believe. Aside from the usual dead legs, I suspect there was a very limited pool of candidates. Pointless speculating here, but naysayers will always claim things would have been better if we had got the other bloke. Usually someone who had played for us in the past, or cut the Bloomfield Road grass etc.

After the final bullshittery of NC I expect Appleton seemed a safe option. I didn't think it was an inspiring choice, but given the paucity of options I wasn't unhappy. Regards the long contract, it doesn't matter. We don't know the truth, and contracts will always end in a negotiation when the time comes.

MA has had to deal with the sale of JB (understandable and unavoidable), the loss of Keogh (major), countless injuries to key players, loan players not working out too well, idiotic red cards and a real slump in form. Also an owner who will not commit unrealistic resources to the football club. Who would? We have been a team on the slide and it's tough to stop that when you keep getting hit with these issues, alongside the lack of support from the fanbase. MA has to take some blame also. I cannot understand why we give the ball away so much. Drives me mad.

So ... where do we go from here? Sack MA? Who would take the job? Let's forget the daft suggestions (Ollie, Charlie etc etc)
Would it not be better to stick with your Manager and support him in the January window? What kind of Manager that we might get would be able to reinvigorate the same set of players to battle to keep us up.

My decision would be based on one criteria. Are the players behind him? No one on AVFTT knows. Last two games I have seen a reaction that would make me think they are. I think a new manager at this point is as likely to relegate us as sticking with MA is. I guess sacking him might make a few on here feel justified though.
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Fair enough, although right now the only way we get out of this mess is by everyone coming together. As that alone is an impossibility with Appleton as manager, I don't see any other option. Yes we need to have an exceptional transfer window but equally we need a manager who is more adaptable, better tactically and will actually engage with our support in a positive way. I do get your point about a replacement, that would not be a simple task but if the board have enough ambition, there are good coaches out there.
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
Smashed it going home as hardly any traffic on the roads

Thought it was a brave selection with so many forward players in the line up and we started well

But yet again a couple of individual mistakes cost us

Battled back well enough and on another day could have got a draw against a top side who simply have better players than us

Yet again I find it difficult to understand all the grief Appleton is getting

Granted most of its probably from people who didn't go to the game, , but that's not the point

Anyway he's going nowhere so get used to it and I've heard there are 3 or 4 new signings lined up

Let's hope he can strengthen the midfield as that's the problem
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Because you could write that report before the game kicked off. It's his job to sort it, otherwise me or you may as well do it.
 
The positives…

The 4-2-3-1 worked pretty well I thought. Poveda did work hard and got involved in the midfield battle at times. It was 3 v 3 in there and I didn’t feel we were being overrun. Poveda drifted into wider areas well and also caused danger through the middle. Overall in my opinion he did well as a 10. Keep playing like that and the rewards will come for him.

Marvin was much better. They never really got in behind us which was pleasing.

Going longer much more often was also not a disaster. At times Yates and Poveda were able to get close enough to Madine to cause them some problems.

The negatives…

Thompson very poor. Arguably at fault for the first and terrible defending for the second. His distribution was poor. I don’t like to criticise too much. He will know he simply has to improve. Appleton could have gone with Williams at CB and Husband at LB.

Beesley has no place on the left. He failed to track Bogle properly in the first half and stood and watched Ndiaye for the first goal. His poor first touch more exposed playing wide. Lavery might have been a better bet there if CJ not fit enough. Beesley better as a sub for when we really went long towards the end.

I don’t know why Poveda was subbed. Charitably that was perhaps a fitness related decision. When it was more of a 4-4-2 we lacked some of the previous fluency.

We need to win the next game, we really do.
 
tangysider said:
Bloody hell Phil
You have gone from someone I ignored to one of my favourite posters.
Also really get annoyed when people say he has lost the dressing room, the team were as you said trying their Bollux off, which would not be happening if they wanted him out.
Played an attacking line up, good use of subs, Poveda was far more influential in the middle of the park than he would have been out wide and reminded me of Wes.
The crap Appleton is getting reflects badly on the fanbase, who seem hell bent on getting rid, while some alternatives they offer are laughable
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Behave

Things have gone so badly I can't see him turning it around

I'll wage you HE doesn't keep us up. For me they'll give him the transfer window and he'll be gone end of Feb with us no better off
 
Mexboroseasider said:
And Arsenal don’t want to be associated with a potential relegation side I suppose.
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?

No, that's not what I was suggesting.

I don't know when Charlie is going back to the Arsenal, all I was suggesting is that there could possibly become a time when the people at Arsenal thought that it was not in the best interests of his development for him to be with us.

Just common sense really, I'm sure they will have people in roles who manage the development of their players and probably people who are responsible specifically for players who are out on loan.

Please don't get me wrong, I have no desire to see him return to the Arsenal and it's perfectly possible that the people at Arsenal think that his time with us has been good for his development and continues to be so.

Sorry for chunnering Mex, I didn't get what you were suggesting and apologies if I misunderstood.
 
haggertyf said:
He just keeps giving the ball away that's more of a concern to me rather than his physical presence
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No problem Haggs but I wasn't questioning his ball retention or his physical presence, I was just really stating the obvious in that it is possible that there could come a time when Arsenal thought that it would be better for his career development for him to be back at Arsenal or elsewhere.
 
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