Lucy Letby

glasshalffull

Well-known member
What an utterly tragic case. Totally disastrous for the children and families concerned and no doubt all those people working and living around her.
What on earth could have led her to such baffling and inexplicable psychology and actions? Truly terrible.
 
What an utterly tragic case. Totally disastrous for the children and families concerned and no doubt all those people working and living around her.
What on earth could have led her to such baffling and inexplicable psychology and actions? Truly terrible.
Attention seeking to get near a married doctor more often apparently. Absolutely tragic and mindless.
 
Its hard to comprehend how someone could do this.

It must have been heartbreaking for the families involved to go through.

Tragic 😔
 
Tragic case and big questions for the Hospital to be forced to answer. A doctor reported it, was ridiculed and forced to go to mediation with her.

Some of you may remember Beverley Allit, our neighbours and friends in the Lakes youngest was one of her victims, thankfully surviving.

Is it mental illness or is it plain evil? I never know

I hope all those families can at least not get some closure, but their lives will be forever damaged.
 
The surprising thing is that it took the jury over 100 hours to reach their verdict, which suggests there must have been some doubters in there.
 
Terrible for the babies; terrible for their parents: terrible for her colleagues - and also terrible for Lucys parents.

People will ask why, but we'll probably never know.

Very sad all round.
 
The surprising thing is that it took the jury over 100 hours to reach their verdict, which suggests there must have been some doubters in there.

I wondered about that too, but then I saw the number of separate charges there were - they had to consider each one individually, and evidently a lot of the cases were different - use of air, use of milk, and use of insulin.
 
Tragic events. Awful woman. NHS management should be charged with corporate manslaughter. I'll say their neglect allowed it to happen. I wouldn't be surprised if they said " ain't my job to sort this ". 1 death could be classed as a careless mistake, 2 the police should have been involved.
It won't be 'ain't my job', more let's not bring any investigation down for fear of what might be discovered.
 
Because of the nature of her job looking after very vulnerable, defenceless babies, the amount she killed and attempted to kill I would think she will qualify for the whole life tariff. Im not sure she's even showed genuine remorse.
 
Because of the nature of her job looking after very vulnerable, defenceless babies, the amount she killed and attempted to kill I would think she will qualify for the whole life tariff. Im not sure she's even showed genuine remorse.
She hasnt as she still denying any involvement.
 
Im aware of that, hence a NG plea, but she can still show remorse for the circumstances that happened. She has appeared as a cool calculated individual.
 
Her legal team have told the court that she will refuse to be present for sentencing on Monday.
Another coward, like Thomas Cashman (murderer of Olivia Pratt-Korbel) a few months ago.

It really is time that defendants were forced to attend sentencing hearings.
Imposing a longer sentence for non-attendance wouldn't be a deterrent for the likes of Letby, who is already likely to spend the rest of her life behind bars.
 
Her legal team have told the court that she will refuse to be present for sentencing on Monday.
Another coward, like Thomas Cashman (murderer of Olivia Pratt-Korbel) a few months ago.

It really is time that defendants were forced to attend sentencing hearings.
Totally agree. They shouldn’t have a choice 😡
 
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I'd stop her parents visiting until she confesses.

Less so for punishment...more because it would be incredibly useful for criminal psychologists to study her and hopefully prevent similar cases.

Not to shift any of the blame and evil away from her though. Sickening individual
 
I know someone who's just had a baby & with this in the forefront I'm bloody sure they won't take their eyes of their new baby, whilst in hospital. Unfortunately it can tar a whole department with the same brush. I'm sure the vast majority of health professionals will have the best interests of the people/babies in their care. This case is truly bizarre & especially sad as is always the case with young unnecessary losses of life.
 
It may have been a factor but I doubt it was the main reason. I think they’re now looking into suspicious deaths in a hospital where she previously worked. Sometimes there just isn’t any explanation.
So many people seemed to think she just wasn‘t capable of this. She really did fool people. On the news tonight an old friend said until she actually said she was guilty she wouldn’t believe it.
Its just so tragic for the families regardless.
 
With cases like this, it's exceptionally difficult to fathom how someone could be capable of doing it, and why anyone would want to do it. The only thing I can think of is that these people don't actually have any kind of conscience, because if they did there's just no way it would be possible.
An absolutely devastating case. It should be law that if there is more than one baby death within a set timeframe with the same person on duty for both, it automatically triggers a police investigation. It should not be up to the personal opinions of management as to whether the police are called in.
 
It may have been a factor but I doubt it was the main reason. I think they’re now looking into suspicious deaths in a hospital where she previously worked. Sometimes there just isn’t any explanation.
So many people seemed to think she just wasn‘t capable of this. She really did fool people. On the news tonight an old friend said until she actually said she was guilty she wouldn’t believe it.
Its just so tragic for the families regardless.
They are looking into 4000 further cases she might be involved with
 
With cases like this, it's exceptionally difficult to fathom how someone could be capable of doing it, and why anyone would want to do it. The only thing I can think of is that these people don't actually have any kind of conscience, because if they did there's just no way it would be possible.
An absolutely devastating case. It should be law that if there is more than one baby death within a set timeframe with the same person on duty for both, it automatically triggers a police investigation. It should not be up to the personal opinions of management as to whether the police are called in.
I don’t know how or whether it was done deliberately, but apparently the way the deaths were recorded meant it was never flagged up. There will always be Lucy Letbys, Harold Shipmans et al, but the systems in place should always ensure that it’s impossible for them to go undetected for so long.
 
The surprising thing is that it took the jury over 100 hours to reach their verdict, which suggests there must have been some doubters in there.
The great majority of the evidence was not direct but circumstantial. For example, the shift patterns which showed Letby present at every incident. Not direct proof but strong circumstantial evidence, which the jury had to carefully consider. Getting into the assessment of probabilities.

Babies were premature and under special care, so in these cases post mortems may not have been always carried out, as they should have been, according to guidelines – and that where postmortems did take place, they did not include systematic blood tests and toxicology. In some PMs air was seen present in X-rays, so we know now likely to be caused by air injection, but not definite proof which is why doctors let it go.

In one case, an extremely high insulin concentration (> 4,300 when 200-300 is normal) was found days after a blood sample was taken, but there was a very low C-peptide level (present when insulin is naturally formed) which meant the high insulin was the likely result of poisoning. But the baby had been transferred to another hospital after the sample was taken and it was assessed at the time by another doctor not in the neonatal unit, who did not suspect foul play and it was not reported back. This hard evidence was finally discovered two years afterwards by a neonatal unit Consultant carrying out a thorough review, instigated by the police investigation, of all the medical records of all the babies harmed.

The clearest lessons may be the dreadful management culture in denial/obstruction resulting in management preventing the police being called in. Also the lack of oversight over all incidents by people independent of management and medical staff .

Personally, I hope the parents sue the CEO and the Medical Director of the Hospital Trust for their alleged culpability in partly leading to at least the last two deaths and many injuries. Because the Inquiry will not be a statutory Judicial Inquiry these people can refuse to appear and cannot be held accountable.
 
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I don’t know how or whether it was done deliberately, but apparently the way the deaths were recorded meant it was never flagged up. There will always be Lucy Letbys, Harold Shipmans et al, but the systems in place should always ensure that it’s impossible for them to go undetected for so long.
It does seem though that management were having meetings about what to do due to issues raised over her, so they must have known there had been numerous deaths and near misses, because they were flagged in email and verbally. So they did know it had happened and it took them an absolute age to do anything. It shouldn't have been up to them, it should have been the law that after concerns were raised by numerous people, a police investigation was automatically triggered. I'm actually amazed it already isn't law! Apparently they can decide if they want to just call in the nursing college instead to have a look. It should be taken out of management hands, who quite clearly have been shown to prioritise their own interests.
 
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I'd stop her parents visiting until she confesses.

Less so for punishment...more because it would be incredibly useful for criminal psychologists to study her and hopefully prevent similar cases.

Not to shift any of the blame and evil away from her though. Sickening individual

Should they have stopped visitors for the man wrongly convicted of rape? He protested his innocence throughout.
 
For me it’s the impact of what she did that’s the thing to focus on.
I can’t get angry at her. She’s mentally ill. No doubt about it.
We increasingly see the mental health card played nowadays. Whether it be a bbc newsreader that’s been sending pics of his knob to young men, or whether it’s a fanatic terrorist that’s stabbed innocent passers by.
But if ever there was a case of mental illness, this is it. She’s not evil. She’s just wrong in the head. Badly wrong.
So I actually pity her and her family. Through my main thoughts are for the victims.
 
Attention seeking to get near a married doctor more often apparently. Absolutely tragic and mindless.

With respect, there’s absolutely no foundation to that claim. It’s a claim from the prosecution as they needed to try and show motive.

But it’s complete speculation. She’s denied committing the crimes. A lead detective said only she will know why she did it. So whilst this theory of attention seeking could be true, there’s no basis to it, other than a prosecutor’s speculation, as they’ve tried to make the case against her; and somehow get in the mind of someone who’s mind clearly works differently to the rest of us.

Throughout evolution, women have found many ways to get the attention of men, without having to serial killing. Whether that be their looks, their body language, and through to err, I don’t know…… incessant talking? 😮😉
 
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She should be made to attend court on Monday for sentencing even if she’s dragged by her feet.
She’s killed 7 babies possibly even more she simply has to face the parents eye to eye during sentencing.

Agree. It should be mandatory. It’s part of the justice process for all involved. Convicts should have to face the responsibility of attending the court, which after all is a trial affecting their liberty. They’re why the trial has taken place. So it’s perverse they can simply opt out and disengage.
The victims family’s should get to see the offender as they’re sentenced. It’s part of the healing process and so they see justice being done. The inability to look the offender in the eye upon sentencing, takes something away from the justice itself.

Once it’s mandatory, there’ll be little need to drag anyone as they’ll know from the outset they have to be there, so it won’t be a thing.

The main reason it’s a thing, is because they have a choice.
 
The great majority of the evidence was not direct but circumstantial. For example, the shift patterns which showed Letby present at every incident. Not direct proof but strong circumstantial evidence, which the jury had to carefully consider. Getting into the assessment of probabilities.

Babies were premature and under special care, so in these cases post mortems may not have been always carried out. In one case, a high insulin concentration was found days after a blood sample was taken, but there was a very low C-peptide level (present with insulin naturally formed) which meant the high insulin was the likely result of poisoning. But the baby had been transferred to another hospital after the sample was taken and it was assessed at the time by another doctor not in the ward unit who did not suspect foul play and it was not reported back. In some PMs air was seen present in X-rays, so we know now likely to be caused by air injection, but not definite proof which is why doctors let it go.

The clearest lessons may be the dreadful management culture in denial/obstruction resulting in management preventing the police being called in. Also the lack of oversight over all incidents by people independent of management and medical staff .

Personally, I hope the parents sue the CEO and the Medical Director of the Hospital Trust for their alleged culpability in partly leading to at least the last two deaths and many injuries. Because the Inquiry will not be a statutory Judicial Inquiry these people can refuse to appear and cannot be held accountable.
I had the misfortune to spend 18months as an interim exec on an NHS Trust Board. On one hand, it was the easiest piece of work I ever did. On the other, it was the least value to anyone and utterly frustrating.

There is a deep pervasive culture of ‘avoidance’ that cascades through many levels of management. Many trusts are rife with a blame culture and a good day is one when a manager has kept their head down, taken no risks, shown no initiative and do the same as they’ve always done.

What is missing from the commentary on all this is that the most senior execs in this case were medical professionals. And that is normal. The Medical Director was a former surgeon, the Nursing Director has awards for nursing ….

There is a deep malaise in the monolithic organisation which is not helped by the hierarchical and arrogant medical profession.
 
Should they have stopped visitors for the man wrongly convicted of rape? He protested his innocence throughout.
Apples and oranges really. There are thousands of rapists in the prison system, so it's not like if the poor guy confessesed there would be any value from a criminal psychiatry perspective.

The first research paper into female serial killers wasn't until 1985. Incentivising her to confess could help prevent future cases. As it stands she will be enjoying playing the wrongly accused, and the sympathy she gets from parents and the few that believe her.

Letby clearly fits a type. Quick google:

"American serial killer and former nurse Kristen Gilbert was convicted of killing four of her patients...prosecutors theorized that along with playing the hero, Gilbert was trying to attract the attention of hospital police officer James Perrault."

"Jane Toppan is perhaps one of the most infamous sadistic medical killers. Nicknamed "Jolly Jane" for her apparently warm and friendly demeanor, Toppan worked as a nurse in Boston during the late 1800s"

"Women serial killers often have been to college, with almost 40 per cent being nurses or health care workers. Dr Harrison said: “She’s probably white...she’s probably in her 20s or 30s, likely middle class, a Christian, displays at least average intelligence and has average or above average attractiveness.”
 
I agree she’s mentally ill.

But I don’t agree that she doesn’t have the mental capacity to know that what she’s doing or done is truly awful. So what stops her from stopping herself.
 
‘Do no harm’…..what a betrayal…
She’s a psychopath by stealth. Serious mental health issues (and the requisite compassion and forgiveness) certainly weren’t attributed/awarded to Ted Bundy or Myra Hindley,…so why should they to Lucy Letby?
 
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