Might Critch surprise us with his hated system?

Dougall

Dougall

Well-known member
Interesting Marv says he thinks the system will eventually work but it might take time. I wonder now that Critch has a whole summer to find players who will work with that system if a few (including me) will end up eating our words. Is he actually a tactical genius who's just not had the right players to fit in to his system and next season will be a turning point?
 
Dougall said:
Interesting Marv says he thinks the system will eventually work but it might take time. I wonder now that Critch has a whole summer to find players who will work with that system if a few (including me) will end up eating our words. Is he actually a tactical genius who's just not had the right players to fit in to his system and next season will be a turning point?
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I won't be holding my breath on the quality signings needed to play such a system.

Just remember he persisted with CJ and most likely sanctioned his new contact.

A player(allegedly) who looked like an Obilisk in a pinhead-sized round hole in most of the games he played in.

Let that sink in 🥴🤛
 
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I think he's been too fearful and lacking confidence since he came back. We will improve if and when he gets bolder and has more self belief, I think. But we also need to recruit well, even just to stand still, with five or six key players from last season gone.

Football is so much about confidence energy and belief. And the managers and head coaches have to set the mood and instil it all in the players. Holloway came to us after a rest in which he'd visited top coaches and was full of energy and ideas. Larry moved from playing to coaching full of ideas and energy. Critch arrived first time full of Liverpool confidence and ideas and energy. Larry came back to us knackered and destroyed by Sunderland and Leeds. Appleton came here with zero confidence that he could replicate what Critch did and even said it out loud. McCarthy arrived from the golf course, mid retirement. Critch came back to us knackered and destroyed by Gerrard and QPR.

Choose carefully! It's an intense and knackering and pressurised job, and humans need to be in top top condition to succeed in it.

It's possible that Critch is gradually recovering. Time will tell. He's got a lot of determination, clearly, I just want to see him let go and trust people and not fearing defeat, dare to win, and accept that defeats happen. Not every game goes to plan. If you and the players are enjoying it and giving it a real go in each game, things tend to go better than if you try to eradicate mistakes and just stop the opposition. I reckon. Give youngsters chances too, it breathes life and energy.
 
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No, because the other teams appear to be able to make adjustments in game to their benefit while we just keep going until 70mins and even then stick with like for like subs. Having an inflexible dunderhead as head coach is not likely to surprise on the upside IMO when coupled with players who aren’t at least of average Championship level in ability and awareness. You can spend a lifetime trying to teach a class of GCSE unclassified failures on maths A level but it isn’t ever going to deliver a pass!
 
clappers said:
No, because the other teams appear to be able to make adjustments in game to their benefit while we just keep going until 70mins and even then stick with like for like subs. Having an inflexible dunderhead as head coach is not likely to surprise on the upside IMO when coupled with players who aren’t at least of average Championship level in ability and awareness. You can spend a lifetime trying to teach a class of GCSE unclassified failures on maths A level but it isn’t ever going to deliver a pass!
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You've never been a teacher have you? 🤦🏻 😉
 
Wizaard said:
I don't hate the system. Its having the right players to fit it that has been an issue, but even then, we scored our share of goals and no one hammered us.
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Leverkusen's 352 is a joy to watch. Alonso transmits energy and belief to his players, and they if course have quality in all positions. But are much better than the sum of their parts, I think.
 
Dougall said:
Interesting Marv says he thinks the system will eventually work but it might take time. I wonder now that Critch has a whole summer to find players who will work with that system if a few (including me) will end up eating our words. Is he actually a tactical genius who's just not had the right players to fit in to his system and next season will be a turning point?
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A tactical genius would make the system suit the players, would make in game changes if the system isn’t working and make substitutions at unpredictable times to suit the occasion. A numpty would, as the saying goes, keep doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome.
 
Dougall said:
Interesting Marv says he thinks the system will eventually work but it might take time. I wonder now that Critch has a whole summer to find players who will work with that system if a few (including me) will end up eating our words. Is he actually a tactical genius who's just not had the right players to fit in to his system and next season will be a turning point?
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He’s had a full season, it didn’t work, we didn’t get into the playoffs, we played appalling dire football, and our away record was abysmal.
 
It’s not the system that doesn’t work. It’s worked plenty of times this season and plenty of clubs use it. It’s his hesitation to change it when it isn’t working, or the fact he simply can’t. It’s fairly easy to change it when hubby for example was playing centre half. Move him to left back, and move the attacking full back to left wing. Gabriel can easily play on the wing if needed during the game, so having someone to come on that right back to play right back. And then all of a sudden you have 4-4-2 and can change to three up top to play 4-3-3. I understand it’s not as simple as that all the time, but that’s three different formations with only one or two subs. I’m not a manager or ever will be, but a bit of tinkering can change it during games, which doesn’t happen enough.
 
It's not all about the formation. I'm not sure we'd see a huge difference in City's results whatever formation they played.
Without wishing to state the obvious it is about the players. Aside from when Grimmy and the back 3 were playing "from me to you" our pass success rate was poor. It doesn't matter what system you play if you regularly give the ball away.
Again using City, which I accept is a bit of an unfair comparison, they always seem to have one or more players in space which makes passing a lot easier. We need to find players that can do that or coach them better.
Of course its not just the mid-fielders and attackers that need to pass the ball it's the defenders too and that's not been great this season.
 
Dougall said:
Interesting Marv says he thinks the system will eventually work but it might take time. I wonder now that Critch has a whole summer to find players who will work with that system if a few (including me) will end up eating our words. Is he actually a tactical genius who's just not had the right players to fit in to his system and next season will be a turning point?
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1. Doubt it.
2. Hope so.
 
Insider said:
It's not all about the formation. I'm not sure we'd see a huge difference in City's results whatever formation they played.
Without wishing to state the obvious it is about the players. Aside from when Grimmy and the back 3 were playing "from me to you" our pass success rate was poor. It doesn't matter what system you play if you regularly give the ball away.
Again using City, which I accept is a bit of an unfair comparison, they always seem to have one or more players in space which makes passing a lot easier. We need to find players that can do that or coach them better.
Of course its not just the mid-fielders and attackers that need to pass the ball it's the defenders too and that's not been great this season.
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Surely it’s the tempo and attacking intent aswell..we concentrate on 500 backwards and sideways passes and teams are happy to let us do that especially when we are behind in games..it’s all done in slow motion and we are very easy to play against . The team selection has at times been comical and if we beat Fleetwood away then we make the play offs..we played tashan Oakley booth in a weird formation and left Dembele on the bench…astonishing really. Next season we need to speed it up and show some attacking intent from the get go.
 
TANGERINETOWERPOWER said:
Surely it’s the tempo and attacking intent aswell..we concentrate on 500 backwards and sideways passes and teams are happy to let us do that especially when we are behind in games..it’s all done in slow motion and we are very easy to play against . The team selection has at times been comical and if we beat Fleetwood away then we make the play offs..we played tashan Oakley booth in a weird formation and left Dembele on the bench…astonishing really. Next season we need to speed it up and show some attacking intent from the get go.
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Absolutely the tempo but I didn't want to add any more at the risk of getting a call from Simon offering me the Manager's job. I'm retired. 😁
 
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voyeur said:
I think he's been too fearful and lacking confidence since he came back. We will improve if and when he gets bolder and has more self belief, I think. But we also need to recruit well, even just to stand still, with five or six key players from last season gone.

Football is so much about confidence energy and belief. And the managers and head coaches have to set the mood and instil it all in the players. Holloway came to us after a rest in which he'd visited top coaches and was full of energy and ideas. Larry moved from playing to coaching full of ideas and energy. Critch arrived first time full of Liverpool confidence and ideas and energy. Larry came back to us knackered and destroyed by Sunderland and Leeds. Appleton came here with zero confidence that he could replicate what Critch did and even said it out loud. McCarthy arrived from the golf course, mid retirement. Critch came back to us knackered and destroyed by Gerrard and QPR.

Choose carefully! It's an intense and knackering and pressurised job, and humans need to be in top top condition to succeed in it.

It's possible that Critch is gradually recovering. Time will tell. He's got a lot of determination, clearly, I just want to see him let go and trust people and not fearing defeat, dare to win, and accept that defeats happen. Not every game goes to plan. If you and the players are enjoying it and giving it a real go in each game, things tend to go better than if you try to eradicate mistakes and just stop the opposition. I reckon. Give youngsters chances too, it breathes life and energy.
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That post is deserved of some marching accompanying music.
I've instantly got energy & self belief 🤔 I possibly might do a bit of ironing 💪
 
Insider said:
We need to find players that can do that or coach them better.
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Not happening on our budget in league one unless we go for one talismanic player a level up form everyone else that can inspire and coach the rest to do it. So the formation and system need changing to one that can deliver results. Or we end up exactly where we were this year or worse.
 
Dolphins may yet surprise us by actually becoming ostriches this year, and yet….

Mr Critch & dolphins, eh, though? Both are often seen as wet, yet only 1 is perceived as smart enough to identify a pending threat & adapt accordingly within less than 70 minutes.
 
I don't mind 3 at the back Bolton play that way and posters are constantly bigging up Evo.

The difference is the quality of our squad compared to there's.
We had an OK first 11 but you'd look over at the bench and think we've strikers who don't score goals,Virtue and a couple of defenders who's going to change anything?

Apart from when Dembelle when he was used as a sub, I'm struggling to think of that many who made a difference or turned a game when they game on.
Maybe Morgan once or twice.
 
poolseasider said:
I don't mind 3 at the back Bolton play that way and posters are constantly bigging up Evo.

The difference is the quality of our squad compared to there's.
We had an OK first 11 but you'd look over at the bench and think we've strikers who don't score goals,Virtue and a couple of defenders who's going to change anything?

Apart from when Dembelle when he was used as a sub, I'm struggling to think of that many who made a difference or turned a game when they game on.
Maybe Morgan once or twice.
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Coulda used Apter as backup. Could have made a difference. Didn't need him though did we?!! 😉

Hating the system is a bit daft isn't it? We just need to play it well and confidently. As Insider articulated above.
 
voyeur said:
Coulda used Apter as backup. Could have made a difference. Didn't need him though did we?!! 😉

Hating the system is a bit daft isn't it? We just need to play it well and confidently. As Insider articulated above.
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Nope preferd Apter doing a full season and getting tons of game time elsewhere not bits and bobs with us.
Comes back a lot stronger for it with us next season.😉
 
Dougall said:
Interesting Marv says he thinks the system will eventually work but it might take time. I wonder now that Critch has a whole summer to find players who will work with that system if a few (including me) will end up eating our words. Is he actually a tactical genius who's just not had the right players to fit in to his system and next season will be a turning point?
Click to expand...
Would a tactical genius not use the players he’s got in a system that suits them? Personally I want to be entertained not bored to death. A tactical genius should be able to implement a system that both entertains and is successful.
 
poolseasider said:
I don't mind 3 at the back Bolton play that way and posters are constantly bigging up Evo.

The difference is the quality of our squad compared to there's.
We had an OK first 11 but you'd look over at the bench and think we've strikers who don't score goals,Virtue and a couple of defenders who's going to change anything?

Apart from when Dembelle when he was used as a sub, I'm struggling to think of that many who made a difference or turned a game when they game on.
Maybe Morgan once or twice.
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This is the issue isn’t it? Sure we discussed this many times on the north too. As I said before plenty of teams play this system and if critch is going to continue with it (which he clearly will) then we just have to have better options to change it when needed.
Hopefully getting rid of those that we have will allow him to sign players who can fit the system or change it.
For all his criticism Connelly is the type of versatile player we need (with slightly more ability granted)
 
traffordtang said:
Would a tactical genius not use the players he’s got in a system that suits them? Personally I want to be entertained not bored to death. A tactical genius should be able to implement a system that both entertains and is successful.
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Not being bored to death helps when things arnt going well, but I’d argue I’d be happy with slightly boring football at times if we were up the top. By all accounts (from what I’ve read here and on Twitter) Bolton hardly set the world alight but we would take that if we were 3rd in the table.
 
HerefordSeasider said:
This is the issue isn’t it? Sure we discussed this many times on the north too. As I said before plenty of teams play this system and if critch is going to continue with it (which he clearly will) then we just have to have better options to change it when needed.
Hopefully getting rid of those that we have will allow him to sign players who can fit the system or change it.
For all his criticism Connelly is the type of versatile player we need (with slightly more ability granted)
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Unless the recruitment team show some real balls and get some real players in through the door it will be more of the same…a mixed bag of average lads of differing ages crowbarred into the system. Always developing but never really delivering.

I await to be proven wrong this time around, as he didn’t prove me wrong last season. I just hope Sadler drives home his message that only promotion will do and it has the desired effect.
 
Dougall said:
Interesting Marv says he thinks the system will eventually work but it might take time. I wonder now that Critch has a whole summer to find players who will work with that system if a few (including me) will end up eating our words. Is he actually a tactical genius who's just not had the right players to fit in to his system and next season will be a turning point?
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Question:

Might Critch surprise us with his hated system?​

Answer: NO - Unless we sign 10 new PL outfield players (Grimmy is Fine)
 
HerefordSeasider said:
Not being bored to death helps when things arnt going well, but I’d argue I’d be happy with slightly boring football at times if we were up the top. By all accounts (from what I’ve read here and on Twitter) Bolton hardly set the world alight but we would take that if we were 3rd in the table.
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There’s a difference between slightly bored and bored to death. Bolton were actually the second highest scorers in the league. Our players get a lot of criticism but those same players kept us in with a chance of the playoffs until the last game, playing a system that didn’t suit them. If only Critchley had shown a bit more flexibility and given the players a bit more freedom throughout the season especially away from home we might have fared better.
 
Dougall said:
Interesting Marv says he thinks the system will eventually work but it might take time. I wonder now that Critch has a whole summer to find players who will work with that system if a few (including me) will end up eating our words. Is he actually a tactical genius who's just not had the right players to fit in to his system and next season will be a turning point?
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No he wasted five million pounds blinded by his ego instead of doing his job which is to get the best from the resources he does have.
 
voyeur said:
I think he's been too fearful and lacking confidence since he came back. We will improve if and when he gets bolder and has more self belief, I think. But we also need to recruit well, even just to stand still, with five or six key players from last season gone.

Football is so much about confidence energy and belief. And the managers and head coaches have to set the mood and instil it all in the players. Holloway came to us after a rest in which he'd visited top coaches and was full of energy and ideas. Larry moved from playing to coaching full of ideas and energy. Critch arrived first time full of Liverpool confidence and ideas and energy. Larry came back to us knackered and destroyed by Sunderland and Leeds. Appleton came here with zero confidence that he could replicate what Critch did and even said it out loud. McCarthy arrived from the golf course, mid retirement. Critch came back to us knackered and destroyed by Gerrard and QPR.

Choose carefully! It's an intense and knackering and pressurised job, and humans need to be in top top condition to succeed in it.

It's possible that Critch is gradually recovering. Time will tell. He's got a lot of determination, clearly, I just want to see him let go and trust people and not fearing defeat, dare to win, and accept that defeats happen. Not every game goes to plan. If you and the players are enjoying it and giving it a real go in each game, things tend to go better than if you try to eradicate mistakes and just stop the opposition. I reckon. Give youngsters chances too, it breathes life and energy.
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Great post that.

The twinkle hasn't been there. The fear has.
 
voyeur said:
He's been trying to control every detail for fear of getting it wrong. I think. The players become heavy and bogged down and there's no real freedom and creative, the spirit is not there. And we die a thousand deaths.
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I couldn't agree more.
 
Dougall said:
Interesting Marv says he thinks the system will eventually work but it might take time. I wonder now that Critch has a whole summer to find players who will work with that system if a few (including me) will end up eating our words. Is he actually a tactical genius who's just not had the right players to fit in to his system and next season will be a turning point?
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No. He’s just a stubborn b’stard trying to hammer in a nail with a spanner.
 
There's nothing wrong with the formation, the system that he builds which he is quite obviously forcing players to play, is cautious, ponderous, predictable and generally doesn't allow players to play to their strengths. Bearing in mind he's going to have a lot of new players, I think we can expect the random selections for the first 40 games of next season as well
 
poolseasider said:
Nope preferd Apter doing a full season and getting tons of game time elsewhere not bits and bobs with us.
Comes back a lot stronger for it with us next season.😉
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yep, i can agree with that. Apter was a big talking point on here last season . What have we learnt? That he had a full season out on loan in L2 where he was a resounding success. But it's now time for us to benefit from the experience he gained. Critchley has to give him that chance.
 
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Eli said it'll take a while for the system to really work and soon surprise that he didn't change it during the season. Is clearly playing the long game. We'll see who he brings in and how that changes it.
 
The energy issue is interesting I think. Klopp seems to have burnt himself out, winning one EPL trophy, one FA Cup and one Champions League, plus a few runners up spots. Guardiola looks as chilled and fresh as ever despite 6 titles in 7 years.

I also think Critch's "year out" affected his mentality. He is a pretty measured calm type, built for longevity like Pep perhaps. But his positive energy if his first spell was missing last season, he seemed strained and contained and defensive. Probably needs to see the sports psychologist! Probably has, actually. Work in progress!
 
voyeur said:
The energy issue is interesting I think. Klopp seems to have burnt himself out, winning one EPL trophy, one FA Cup and one Champions League, plus a few runners up spots. Guardiola looks as chilled and fresh as ever despite 6 titles in 7 years.

I also think Critch's "year out" affected his mentality. He is a pretty measured calm type, built for longevity like Pep perhaps. But his positive energy if his first spell was missing last season, he seemed strained and contained and defensive. Probably needs to see the sports psychologist! Probably has, actually. Work in progress!
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It’s almost like after being sacked from QPR he needed a break like Holloway did and come back fresh of mind. Lurching from one sacking to another isn’t helpful.
Grayson was another who developed battle scars and was no better from experience.
 
King Billy said:
It’s almost like after being sacked from QPR he needed a break like Holloway did and come back fresh of mind. Lurching from one sacking to another isn’t helpful.
Grayson was another who developed battle scars and was no better from experience.
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Grayson got steadily worse.
 
I agree with the points about him being scared to commit, safety first etc.

But if Sadler's made it clear that he expects success second time round, isn't there a danger that will drive him to more safety first stuff, rather than go for it?
 
CGP1 said:
I agree with the points about him being scared to commit, safety first etc.

But if Sadler's made it clear that he expects success second time round, isn't there a danger that will drive him to more safety first stuff, rather than go for it?
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Hopefully he will realise that avoiding abject failure is not the same thing as success!
 
Dougall said:
Interesting Marv says he thinks the system will eventually work but it might take time. I wonder now that Critch has a whole summer to find players who will work with that system if a few (including me) will end up eating our words. Is he actually a tactical genius who's just not had the right players to fit in to his system and next season will be a turning point?
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Wow,talk about clutching at straws……
 
voyeur said:
The energy issue is interesting I think. Klopp seems to have burnt himself out, winning one EPL trophy, one FA Cup and one Champions League, plus a few runners up spots. Guardiola looks as chilled and fresh as ever despite 6 titles in 7 years.

I also think Critch's "year out" affected his mentality. He is a pretty measured calm type, built for longevity like Pep perhaps. But his positive energy if his first spell was missing last season, he seemed strained and contained and defensive. Probably needs to see the sports psychologist! Probably has, actually. Work in progress!
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I think it's also about the blend of people. Not just the coaching staff but also the squad.

First time round he had some vocal and actually a few quite wild characters. It was clear that for some of those, Critchley was a calming, focussing influence.

Now he's got a group who feel a bit like they need winding up, not calming down.
 
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