MSG & BST…..

SEASIDE2020 said:
I don't know if criticism of BST is allowed but I'd say that their "constitution" is very flexible.

It would appear that they are perhaps more interested in being seen to do things properly than doing things properly ?

The SLO tells us about how they aim to hold the clubs owners to account in the interests of community or whatever he said but I don't think BST like being questioned themselves.

Whenever they are questioned, they never seem to address those questions and prefer to inform folk that they are volunteers and then blow smoke up each others @rses.

That is not to say that they have not made a positive contribution and that they should be proud of their efforts, they just don't like to be questioned themselves.
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I think it’s natural for an organisation to retreat into their shell when they come under fire.

Anyone is free to put themselves up for election to the committee and it’s definitely not a closed shop like we saw with BSA.

The committee work extremely hard and I’ve seen that first hand.

I do agree that they maybe don’t appear to handle criticism or any questions particularly well at times, but they also get a lot of unfair flack..

For me, the whole thing is an unwanted distraction. I’m glad we have people willing to do this stuff, because frankly I can’t be arsed with any of it, but I’d rather it was just going on in the background, unless there are genuine issues with the Club.
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
But you wouldn't have been asked if you hadn't of been part of BST would you?

That's the point

Nobody begrudges you getting a job after all the work you put in during the troubles against the Oystons, just be honest about it

Also it doesn't look like you have answered my other point
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I think you’ve answered your own question Phil.
You’re splitting hairs and trying to be clever.
Personally Christine fought the “Odious Ones” as many more did.
Anyone who is highly qualified to do a job and a vacancy is available should be able to satisfy a “win-win” situation without question.
My issue with BST is as professional as they undoubtly are, they should more actively involve ALL fans more on their top table.
My concern here is that SS is trying to control BST and therefore restrict “the independent voice” of ALL fans.
SS has been an “amazing owner” so far and I for one will remain in “total gratitude” for forking out what I understand to be around £9 million to buy the club and invest millions further from then.
SS is not perfect and ALL fans should be allowed access to air their views when they are well-intended for the success of OUR “Beloved BFC”.
I respect Christine,Tim, Robbie & Tony Wilkinson for their dedication but as a “top table” I think they are too “rank & file” as a group that’s why I would like to see a Raggy-Type amongst them to compliment the views of the likes of Mark Turner, Andy Higgins & Tony Hodgson to represent the angle of fans views that are more of MSG/TK thinking.
Whoever is on that top table must NOT pbe in awe of SS and be able to assert the views of ALL fans across the widest-church possible.

Ashley
PLFS……”We Only Do Boats🛳️ & Coaches🚌 Not Politics”🍊🧡
 
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Phil_bfc deux said:
You are (if you ever did) comment is completely patronising

Of course I've checked the aims and I've been a member of BST I think I still am, I also recall when the primary aim was for Blackpool fc to be a fans owned club and to have fans on the board

And I actually pointed out how ridiculous that was at the time
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BFC being a fan-owned club was never a primary aim of BST, as I recall (more a long-term objective at that time in 2014). Anyway, the idea was discarded years ago.
 
CSSeasider said:
BST have NEVER tried to oust other groups- quite the opposite. We support the position that the club should engage with all supporter groups and are glad that Julian Winter has indicated that the club intend to do just that. We are all Blackpool fans and should be supporting each other and the club.
People can be members of more than one group and many are. The Trust is an open and democratic organisation and it makes absolute sense that any club will engage with a Trust where there is one, but not to the exclusion of all others
As for this "top table" nonsense- what does that even mean? If being on the Trust committee is supposed to give special benefits then they have certainly passed me by! We don't get special treatment, we don't get freebies, so what is the poster suggesting? The role from where I'm sitting is hard work, a big responsibility in trying to represent the views of members and all Blackpool fans, the donation of hours of our time and being the object of abuse from certain quarters. Thankfully there are plenty of fans who can see the good work being done and being part of something constructive and positive is the reward.
This supposed "war" between MSG and BST is manufactured nonsense. There is an element among the fanbase that like to stir up trouble that isn't real, grab the headlines and manipulate the narrative. Please don't just accept every headline you see. If you want an answer to any question then contact BST directly. Might not be as "exciting" as a thread on AVFTT with hundreds of comments but you will get the real story that way.
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Christine, as you know I have enormous respect for all the hard work and unpaid time you all put into the BST
However, as a life long member of BST I think the top table of the committee ie the likes of You Robbie Tony Wilkinson and at times Tim are too “rank and file” to be the sole representatives of ALL fans views with respect to communication with our owner.
Despite my respect and appreciation of SS Custodianship of OUR “Beloved BFC” I think if he is choosing to ONlY reach out to BST in his dialogue he creating divisions across the overall fans base…….that is not healthy in my book.
I fully understand many fans hearing alarm bells and being traumatised by thinking of the past “KO & BSA” sole communication channels.
Yes BST are currently Independent but what is SS’s respect for that Independence, and what is the current “top table’s” ability to stand up to SS?……Not strong enough is “My” personal opinion.
#AFootballClubWithoutFansIsNothing
 
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x3

"I think it’s natural for an organisation to retreat into their shell when they come under fire"

Natural reactions are exactly that and it may be natural to retreat but any organisation that genuinelly wants to be open and do things properly would welcome any questionning and treat it as an opportunity to demonstrate their openness.

"Anyone is free to put themselves up for election to the committee and it’s definitely not a closed shop like we saw with BSA"

I never suggested otherwise but now that you have done, I'd suggest there are/were questions marks over the democracy of both BST and BSA despite both holding elections.

"The committee work extremely hard and I’ve seen that first hand"

I never suggested otherwise and I don't know who did ?

I have continually referred to their positive contribution towards initiatives, it's perfectly possible that people can work extremely hard AND demonstrate that hard work to you AND not always do things in exactly the right way.

"I do agree that they maybe don’t appear to handle criticism or any questions particularly well at times"

THAT WAS THE ONLY POINT I MADE REALLY, WE ARE IN AGREEMENT.

"but they also get a lot of unfair flack"

Absolutely no doubt.

"For me, the whole thing is an unwanted distraction. I’m glad we have people willing to do this stuff, because frankly I can’t be arsed with any of it, but I’d rather it was just going on in the background, unless there are genuine issues with the club"

A good summary and for me you talk the most sense on these threads, just stating the basic common sense things that everybody knows if they are honest about things.

Although I agree with you on just about everything, I think it's only enevitable that people will ask questions on threads like this and asking questions of people/organisations does not mean that you don't appreciate that person/organisation and past achievements of that person/organisation does not and should not make them immune from any criticism.
 
SLO_BFC said:
BFC being a fan-owned club was never a primary aim of BST, as I recall (more a long-term objective at that time in 2014). Anyway, the idea was discarded years ago.
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It was!!! Anyway that's my point aims change

Is it still an aim to have fan representation on the board l?

And anyway why are you answering for BST I thought you were independent
 
Torycorner said:
Christine, as you know I have enormous respect for all the hard work and unpaid time you all put into the BST
However, as a life long member of BST I think the top table of the committee ie the likes of You Robbie Tony Wilkinson and at times Tim are too “rank and file” to be the sole representatives of ALL fans views with respect to communication with our owner.
Despite my respect and appreciation of SS Custodianship of OUR “Beloved BFC” I think if he is choosing to ONlY reach out to BST in his dialogue he creating divisions across the overall fans base…….that is not healthy in my book.
I fully understand many fans hearing alarm bells and being traumatised by thinking of the past “KO & BSA” sole communication channels.
Yes BST are currently Independent but what is SS’s respect for that Independence, and what is the current “top table’s” ability to stand up to SS?……Not strong enough is “My” personal opinion.
#AFootballClubWithoutFansIsNothing
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If only there was a way for others to become part of the Trust committee.
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
It was!!! Anyway that's my point aims change

Is it still an aim to have fan representation on the board l?

And anyway why are you answering for BST I thought you were independent
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FFS Phil Mate,
Steve, kept BST together when that “Vile Owner” sued Tim.
Without BST the fans would have had no “protest engine-room” to work along side the likes of the TK’s and later on the MSG.
Steve is a massive fan and a dedicated SLO a role that’s a poison-chalice if there ever was one, in my personal opinion.
Steve was answering your question in his past role of chairman of BST and is 100% independent in his new role of SLO.
 
Torycorner said:
FFS Phil Mate,
Steve, kept BST together when that “Vile Owner” sued Tim.
Without BST the fans would have had no “protest engine-room” to work along side the likes of the TK’s and later on the MSG.
Steve is a massive fan and a dedicated SLO a role that’s a poison-chalice if there ever was one, in my personal opinion.
Steve was answering your question in his past role of chairman of BST and is 100% independent in his new role of SLO.
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Sorry Ash

But he isn't independent at all, how can he be given his BST connections?

Steve Rowlands is a life time member of BST ffs, how is that independent?

All this talk of fan engagement at a national level and the nonsense regarding associations and affiliations sounds just like he's swallowing the FSA and BST jiz that we have been hearing about ever since Seddon, Whitaker and Wilkinson got involved with the FSA

You can see exactly how this is going hence why the MSG are pissed off with it
 
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AmericanTangerine said:
Have no clue how people even view MSG as credible after they directly attacked Rhys Williams last season over a clearly fake message. They’re embarrassing.
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The MSG is different and the communication tends to be up front and in your face, but they are good lads and have been a positive force for the Club and Community…

Genuine people and what you see is what you get 👍
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
The MSG is different and the communication tends to be up front and in your face, but they are good lads and have been a positive force for the Club and Community…

Genuine people and what you see is what you get 👍
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Get that and have no doubt they act in good faith, have done a lot and are necessary to an extent, but can’t get over how a group with such pull could publicly attack a player over something that wasn’t even verified.

Was embarrassing and made it all but impossible for that player to fail at the club. Don’t think I’ll ever excuse that.
 
AmericanTangerine said:
Get that and have no doubt they act in good faith, have done a lot and are necessary to an extent, but can’t get over how a group with such pull could publicly attack a player over something that wasn’t even verified.

Was embarrassing and made it all but impossible for that player to fail at the club. Don’t think I’ll ever excuse that.
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To be honest I'm really not arsed about all that Williams stuff

Whist it didn't look great it's just a stick some people use to beat them with

It really isn't that important, it wasn't then and even less so now but still gets wheeled out at least once a week
 
AmericanTangerine said:
Get that and have no doubt they act in good faith, have done a lot and are necessary to an extent, but can’t get over how a group with such pull could publicly attack a player over something that wasn’t even verified.

Was embarrassing and made it all but impossible for that player to fail at the club. Don’t think I’ll ever excuse that.
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Agree with that,what was even more embarrassing was when Williams denied having anything to do with the text message instead of apologising the guy who runs the MSG Twitter account said that "we'll just have to take your word for it"
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
To be honest I'm really not arsed about all that Williams stuff

Whist it didn't look great it's just a stick some people use to beat them with

It really isn't that important, it wasn't then and even less so now but still gets wheeled out at least once a week
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It’s absolutely important, people can’t on one hand say that MSG is a reputable supporters group that deserves representation and dialogue with the club while MSG operates in a toxic, irresponsible and immature manner online.

What they did wasn’t just a one off mistake, it was a complete repudiation of their reputation and credibility as a supporters group.

MSG play an important role in creating atmosphere and engaging the community to do good will and are important, BUT they should be nowhere close to having dialogue with the club and I think the club are in the right for not giving them a voice or platform.
 
CSSeasider said:
BST have NEVER tried to oust other groups- quite the opposite. We support the position that the club should engage with all supporter groups and are glad that Julian Winter has indicated that the club intend to do just that. We are all Blackpool fans and should be supporting each other and the club.
People can be members of more than one group and many are. The Trust is an open and democratic organisation and it makes absolute sense that any club will engage with a Trust where there is one, but not to the exclusion of all others
As for this "top table" nonsense- what does that even mean? If being on the Trust committee is supposed to give special benefits then they have certainly passed me by! We don't get special treatment, we don't get freebies, so what is the poster suggesting? The role from where I'm sitting is hard work, a big responsibility in trying to represent the views of members and all Blackpool fans, the donation of hours of our time and being the object of abuse from certain quarters. Thankfully there are plenty of fans who can see the good work being done and being part of something constructive and positive is the reward.
This supposed "war" between MSG and BST is manufactured nonsense. There is an element among the fanbase that like to stir up trouble that isn't real, grab the headlines and manipulate the narrative. Please don't just accept every headline you see. If you want an answer to any question then contact BST directly. Might not be as "exciting" as a thread on AVFTT with hundreds of comments but you will get the real story that way.
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What I was explaining was that you AREN’T representing the views of fans. Quite the opposite.

You’re going behind your members backs, having secret meetings with the club and only releasing statements on meetings YOU believe should have statements released about. We realised that a few months ago when your secret meeting was found out about and posted all over AVFTT. Then, believe it or not, a few days - a statement was posted.
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
It was!!! Anyway that's my point aims change

Is it still an aim to have fan representation on the board l?

And anyway why are you answering for BST I thought you were independent
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Phil, I'm not answering for BST. I'm engaging with you in a conversation from my past knowledge. As for independence, just credit me with the integrity to be able to be impartial and unbiased as SLO, because that's the undertaking I gave and that's how I perform the role.
 
SLO_BFC said:
Phil, I'm not answering for BST. I'm engaging with you in a conversation from my past knowledge. As for independence, just credit me with the integrity to be able to be impartial and unbiased as SLO, because that's the undertaking I gave and that's how I perform the role.
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Yet you are a life time member of BST and on the BST roll of honour on the website, so I honestly can't see how you can have any impartiality when discussing BST

Btw I followed your rather patronising advice and had a look at the BST aims on the website and I'm surprised BST still want fan representation on the board and also a minority share in the club

I thought BST had done away with such ridiculous notions
 
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Torycorner said:
Christine, as you know I have enormous respect for all the hard work and unpaid time you all put into the BST
However, as a life long member of BST I think the top table of the committee ie the likes of You Robbie Tony Wilkinson and at times Tim are too “rank and file” to be the sole representatives of ALL fans views with respect to communication with our owner.
Despite my respect and appreciation of SS Custodianship of OUR “Beloved BFC” I think if he is choosing to ONlY reach out to BST in his dialogue he creating divisions across the overall fans base…….that is not healthy in my book.
I fully understand many fans hearing alarm bells and being traumatised by thinking of the past “KO & BSA” sole communication channels.
Yes BST are currently Independent but what is SS’s respect for that Independence, and what is the current “top table’s” ability to stand up to SS?……Not strong enough is “My” personal opinion.
#AFootballClubWithoutFansIsNothing
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This top table thing is all a bit elitist. As a democratic organisation BST needs to involve more of its members in its activities. If the Trust were to meet more regularly then ordinary members could start to take on initiatives of their own, under the umbrella of BST. That way it's not all the same old names cropping up all the time.
 
ItsGrimUpNorth said:
What I was explaining was that you AREN’T representing the views of fans. Quite the opposite.

You’re going behind your members backs, having secret meetings with the club and only releasing statements on meetings YOU believe should have statements released about. We realised that a few months ago when your secret meeting was found out about and posted all over AVFTT. Then, believe it or not, a few days - a statement was posted.
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I'm doing my best to give the BST Committee the benefit of the doubt here and say that I don't believe they are secretive. However, in order to stop even the suggestion of such a thing requires, to my mind, more visibility and open discussion with the members.
 
I'm interested in this Fan engagement charter that this Julian bloke is preparing. I wonder if this is being drawn up independently by the club or with assistance from outside ?
Anyone know ?
 
Hertsseasider said:
I'm interested in this Fan engagement charter that this Julian bloke is preparing. I wonder if this is being drawn up independently by the club or with assistance from outside ?
Anyone know ?
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Given the mention of affiliate and associate, which is to do with the FSA, maybe they are advising the club. But I am only guessing.
 
Macseasider said:
So in a nutshell the group that likes committee meetings, voting on stuff and sending emails are preferred by the club owner to the group that like swearing and fighting.
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Think that's "swearing, fighting and causing embaressing headlines" tbf.
 
I think everyone should stop moaning and get off the clubs back, the war was won and is over, SS is the polar opposite of our former owners and has no doubt the best interests of the club at heart. If at some point in the future that changes the varying fans groups can sharpen there swords but in the mean time cut them some slack.
 
Wizaard said:
Yet BST have approached other groups for their input.
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I appreciate that you are not an official BST spokesman Wiz so no problem at all if you can't or don't want to answer but I was wondering if you or BST could explain the allegation of secret meetings that is made somewhere up above on this thread.

I didn't make the allegation myself but if memory serves the chap who explained it was bob on, the BST committee held a secret meeting with the club that would have remained secret and nobody would have known anything about it if somebody - I don't know who ? - hadn't bubbled them.

Once they were rumbled, BST then decided to tell everybody about their secret meeting ?
 
Torycorner said:
I think you’ve answered your own question Phil.
You’re splitting hairs and trying to be clever.
Personally Christine fought the “Odious Ones” as many more did.
Anyone who is highly qualified to do a job and a vacancy is available should be able to satisfy a “win-win” situation without question.
My issue with BST is as professional as they undoubtly are, they should more actively involve ALL fans more on their top table.
My concern here is that SS is trying to control BST and therefore restrict “the independent voice” of ALL fans.
SS has been an “amazing owner” so far and I for one will remain in “total gratitude” for forking out what I understand to be around £9 million to buy the club and invest millions further from then.
SS is not perfect and ALL fans should be allowed access to air their views when they are well-intended for the success of OUR “Beloved BFC”.
I respect Christine,Tim, Robbie & Tony Wilkinson for their dedication but as a “top table” I think they are too “rank & file” as a group that’s why I would like to see a Raggy-Type amongst them to compliment the views of the likes of Mark Turner, Andy Higgins & Tony Hodgson to represent the angle of fans views that are more of MSG/TK thinking.
Whoever is on that top table must NOT pbe in awe of SS and be able to assert the views of ALL fans across the widest-church possible.

Ashley
PLFS……”We Only Do Boats🛳️ & Coaches🚌 Not Politics”🍊🧡
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There should be no top table simple as that
 
I hope there not relying on that spreadsheet for anything. I gave a load of moody info when I was asked. Who wouldn't?
 
SEASIDE2020 said:
I appreciate that you are not an official BST spokesman Wiz so no problem at all if you can't or don't want to answer but I was wondering if you or BST could explain the allegation of secret meetings that is made somewhere up above on this thread.

I didn't make the allegation myself but if memory serves the chap who explained it was bob on, the BST committee held a secret meeting with the club that would have remained secret and nobody would have known anything about it if somebody - I don't know who ? - hadn't bubbled them.

Once they were rumbled, BST then decided to tell everybody about their secret meeting ?
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I have no idea of 'secret' meetings as I'm just an ordinary member, like the other thousand or more who pay their subs, but I do trust those in the organisation, such as Christine, Andy and Tony, to do what they do in the best interests of all fans. They're not at all interested in elitism and keeping others out, as any conversation with them would show.
 
Wizaard said:
I have no idea of 'secret' meetings as I'm just an ordinary member, like the other thousand or more who pay their subs, but I do trust those in the organisation, such as Christine, Andy and Tony, to do what they do in the best interests of all fans. They're not at all interested in elitism and keeping others out, as any conversation with them would show.
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Thanks Wiz, no problem with anything you say and no reason to doubt you but I was really looking for an explanation of the secret meeting, or perhaps I should say alleged secret meeting.

I think there should be some balance.

Plenty are tripping over themselves to defend BST while at the same time everybody is expected to take it as a given that all the Muckers fight with opposing supporters, snort cocaine and throw dangerous missiles on to the pitch so I think it's only fair that a harmless question around a secret meeting can be asked.
 
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