No Sonny Carey thread?

Long-shanks said:
Hes one of a number of players (lavery, Beasley, CJ, Norburn etc) that on their day can produce some magic. Problem is 'those days' are few and far between.
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See, I don't think he is. I think he's a technically able player who is actually quite consistent in what he does and drives us forward pretty regularly. If you value an energetic and technically able midfielder then you'll rate him. If you want Andy Morrison instead, you won't.

He scored today and that was probably just reward for a run of decent performances, which came in the wider context of some pretty poor overall displays from the team.

I think that's a fair summary. He's not perfect but he's decent. Judging players purely on 'how much magic' they produce is an indication that as a team, we're overly reliant on individual brilliance.
 
td53 said:
See, I don't think he is. I think he's a technically able player who is actually quite consistent in what he does and drives us forward pretty regularly. If you value an energetic and technically able midfielder then you'll rate him. If you want Andy Morrison instead, you won't.

He scored today and that was probably just reward for a run of decent performances, which came in the wider context of some pretty poor overall displays from the team.

I think that's a fair summary. He's not perfect but he's decent. Judging players purely on 'how much magic' they produce is an indication that as a team, we're overly reliant on individual brilliance.
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If he passed the ball forward more and occasionally tackled someone or body then I would agree with you and today he scored so he gets brownie points. His biggest problem I think is stamina. He invariably runs out of steam around 70mins (ala Clarkson from another era)
 
td53 said:
Why not?

We have a weekly one explaining that it's his fault (Global warming, inflation, a loss where he came off the bench for 6 minutes at the end) for not being Neil Bishop.

I demand a Sonny Carey thread! Now!

☀️⚽🧡🍊
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No mention of Kaikai?

On topic, always rated Carey if he gets a chance
 
Chesterbfc said:
If he passed the ball forward more and occasionally tackled someone or body then I would agree with you and today he scored so he gets brownie points. His biggest problem I think is stamina. He invariably runs out of steam around 70mins (ala Clarkson from another era)
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I'm not bothered about being agreed with - I know I'm right and the haterz are wrong. 🤣
 
td53 said:
I actually had a short chat with Sullay online after the game and he was really touched by his reception. He'll be in the blog for sure.
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You've gone and told him you love him, haven't you 😂

Felt bad for Sullay when he got injured at Sunderland and tried to make it for the next game but had to pull out. Just after finally getting to play in his proper position and smashing in the winner. One of the good guys I think.

Boom
 
td53 said:
See, I don't think he is. I think he's a technically able player who is actually quite consistent in what he does and drives us forward pretty regularly. If you value an energetic and technically able midfielder then you'll rate him. If you want Andy Morrison instead, you won't.

He scored today and that was probably just reward for a run of decent performances, which came in the wider context of some pretty poor overall displays from the team.

I think that's a fair summary. He's not perfect but he's decent. Judging players purely on 'how much magic' they produce is an indication that as a team, we're overly reliant on individual brilliance.
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Fair analysis but I think there's more to Carey. He can disappoint for England. He can easily go missing in a game. However, with an arm around him and an instruction to take the bull by the horns he can do what he did today. We need much more of that.
 
I've said this before. Sonny was just coming into form last November then he was "rested".
He's back and today he was my MOM.
We had a mid-field 2 today, to all intents and purposes, of Byers and Carey. In the 1st half he was picking the ball up deep and frequently ended in the box.
He certainly has ability but as others have said he needs to play with more confidence in that ability.
 
poolfc said:
You've gone and told him you love him, haven't you 😂

Felt bad for Sullay when he got injured at Sunderland and tried to make it for the next game but had to pull out. Just after finally getting to play in his proper position and smashing in the winner. One of the good guys I think.

Boom
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Ha!

He contacted me a while back to say he read my blog and enjoyed it (which was ** amazing to be honest and absolutely made my day) so in a very real sense, I have told him I love him if he's read more than about 3 paragraphs I've written.

I very occasionally send him a message to wish him luck (i.e. when he moved clubs) and he's immensely polite. He's just a really nice lad and he definitely loved his time here.
 
td53 said:
Ha!

He contacted me a while back to say he read my blog and enjoyed it (which was ** amazing to be honest and absolutely made my day) so in a very real sense, I have told him I love him if he's read more than about 3 paragraphs I've written.

I very occasionally send him a message to wish him luck (i.e. when he moved clubs) and he's immensely polite. He's just a really nice lad and he definitely loved his time here.
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Never spoken to him but can tell he's a good lad. It's a credit to you if he's read your stuff as your blogs keep us all going I think. Certainly during that lockdown time, which has bizarrely ended up feeling like a golden period.

I sort of miss Critchley having Sullay awkwardly hanging about on the left wing so he could make runs to the six yard box in case it looks like CJ manages a cutback on his wrong foot for the xG stats. Everything arse about face but it worked a few times.
 
poolfc said:
Never spoken to him but can tell he's a good lad. It's a credit to you if he's read your stuff as your blogs keep us all going I think. Certainly during that lockdown time, which has bizarrely ended up feeling like a golden period.

I sort of miss Critchley having Sullay awkwardly hanging about on the left wing so he could make runs to the six yard box in case it looks like CJ manages a cutback on his wrong foot for the xG stats. Everything arse about face but it worked a few times.
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It was weird - I realised today that I hadn't actually seen Sullay in the flesh play since Larry was here - cos of course, peak Sullay was lockdown and though he hobbled round at Wembley, he of course, was nowhere near fit.

I know what you mean. It's odd how the lockdown team are kind of a 'classic side' even though we only barely saw them.
 
Insider said:
I've said this before. Sonny was just coming into form last November then he was "rested".
He's back and today he was my MOM.
We had a mid-field 2 today, to all intents and purposes, of Byers and Carey. In the 1st half he was picking the ball up deep and frequently ended in the box.
He certainly has ability but as others have said he needs to play with more confidence in that ability.
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Yes, and his best form earlier coincided with being paired with Dougall and Byers is not a million miles away from Kenny. He benefits from having other forward thinking players. He definitely enjoyed played with Coulson and there was a nice thing going on with him and Kaddy running for each other.

I hate to say it, but I don't think Norburn is really the ideal player as the heartbeat of the team.
 
Carey was our best player today. He maybe should have had a hat trick in the first half, going past two then taking a touch too many before having a shot blocked, plus putting one into the side netting from a decent position.

He also put in some decent challenges and kept us on the front foot.

That follows on from a decent performance against Wycombe. Long may it continue.
 
Wizaard said:
Carey was our best player today. He maybe should have had a hat trick in the first half, going past two then taking a touch too many before having a shot blocked, plus putting one into the side netting from a decent position.

He also put in some decent challenges and kept us on the front foot.

That follows on from a decent performance against Wycombe. Long may it continue.
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Amen. He was also probably best player second half vs Derby. Pretty much anything we did in that game came through him.
 
td53 said:
Why not?

We have a weekly one explaining that it's his fault (Global warming, inflation, a loss where he came off the bench for 6 minutes at the end) for not being Neil Bishop.

I demand a Sonny Carey thread! Now!

☀️⚽🧡🍊
Click to expand...
He drives us forward, can be that link from midfield to attack, instead if just passing it backwards.

He can create goals, score goals and looks like he'll be a decent player sometimes.

Other times though he can go missing, can be wasteful, like the pass to no-one today when he didn't look.

Whether he's been misused or is just hit an miss is hard to say.
 
He was decent today but still hangs onto the ball a bit too long & loses it rather than passing it, that said the movement in front is next to none existent.
 
JJpool said:
He drives us forward, can be that link from midfield to attack, instead if just passing it backwards.

He can create goals, score goals and looks like he'll be a decent player sometimes.

Other times though he can go missing, can be wasteful, like the pass to no-one today when he didn't look.

Whether he's been misused or is just hit an miss is hard to say.
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It was a quick pass anticipating a run that didn't happen. So what. Go again. He did.

When he's struggling he dithers and holds the ball too long. I'd far rather him play a quick attacking pass that didn't work out than him pivot and go backwards. Half of our problem as a team is an obsession with not losing possession. Sometimes the crowd drive me mad as they both hate Critchley's sideways and backwards shit but also get on the backs of players who lose the ball going forward. We can't have it both ways. Exciting teams lose the ball all the time. Players need to not fear that to play quick, incisive, instinctive football. I actually want Carey trying no look passes. I want some impudence. I want some confidence. I want us trying things.

Players will make mistakes. A player like Sonny will always cost you a goal here and there and he'll never be a great tackler, though to be honest, I think he's improved himself in that regard and he presses pretty well. I'd genuinely like to see the running stats as he's always moving.

He shoots more than anyone else (he's had 14 shots in the last 3 games and been the most shooty player in each one) and he'll thread it and try stuff and put little flipped balls in the box and so on. More of that and less of the crab football, shuffle it sideways don't shoot cos we might turn the ball over stuff.
 
Allmodcons said:
Aside from the goal I thought it was a typical Sonny performance, some good bits but ultimately let down by his inability to pick a pass.
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Total bollocks that . . probably the only midfielder we have that CAN pick a pass. The bar is low but try someone else to slag off please.
 
TimperleyTangerine said:
Pleased for Sonny, thought he did ok today. I just wish he’d have more confidence to do what he’s good at. Sadly, like others, he often looks for a pass when he could carry it. It’s our generally cautious approach.

Good goal and with Dembele our stand out players today.
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Aye, it’s good to see us looking as though we want to take them on and go at teams. Confidence will come as long as fans don’t keep slating them. I thought Byers was brilliant in holding midfield calming things down and making us play. It would’ve been a much more ‘sudden death’ game without him there.
 
P t Barnum said:
You've got to ask why and wheres he been just as he got confidence he got dropped maybe injured?
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Sounds like he may slack off a bit in training. Young lad but I think critch is starting to get something out of him. As long as he’s consistent in training, I can’t see him losing his place for the remainder
 
Always liked him, young player who will come good, hopefully for us.
He played with a bit of freedom, obviously gonna be dropped next game for ignoring Critchley’s tactics
 
td53 said:
It was a quick pass anticipating a run that didn't happen. So what.
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Or a total lack of awareness of what is going on around him. Good players know where their teammates are before they even get the ball themselves.
 
Loco said:
Or a total lack of awareness of what is going on around him. Good players know where their teammates are before they even get the ball themselves.
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That's odd because Carey is a good player so what you say mustn't be true even though it sounds like something Jamie Carragher might say.

Good players are trained 5 days a week to play within a system' that allows them to pass on instinct and not have to look everytime.. They don't always pass to a man. They sometimes pass to an area where a man should be. Good teams work like that. If you put flippin' Messi on our team he'd occasionally drop one into no one because we don't always move like the machine that good teams are.

The quality of a link player is massively dictated by those around him.
 
td53 said:
That's odd because Carey is a good player so what you say mustn't be true even though it sounds like something Jamie Carragher might say.

Good players are trained 5 days a week to play within a system' that allows them to pass on instinct and not have to look everytime.. They don't always pass to a man. They sometimes pass to an area where a man should be. Good teams work like that. If you put flippin' Messi on our team he'd occasionally drop one into no one because we don't always move like the machine that good teams are.

The quality of a link player is massively dictated by those around him.
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Then the problem must be that our lot are never in the right place and Sonny should be going to the Euros. Good players are still aware of where their team mates are.
 
Loco said:
Sonny should be going to the Euros.
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I'm glad we've come around to my point eventually 👍

I agree, good players are aware. They're not ALWAYS aware and passes sometimes go astray.

Sonny is a decent passer of a ball. He's not elite level mind blowing but in the context of our squad he's good. If you watch him, he's always 'scanning' - turning his head side to side and yes, he sometimes will hit an ambitious pass to no one, but Morgan does that and as I've said, I'm far less bothered about that than him going into his shell and getting 95% passing accuracy but not hitting anything ambitious. Same with Morgan.
 
Loco said:
At least he can take a corner.
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Here's a mad idea. Maybe we need more than one player who is any good and perhaps it's not player a) Vs player b) but actually a squad game?

Didn't have a problem when Morgan was playing ahead of Sonny and in that purple patch. He was excellent.

Morgan is not fit and hasn't been for weeks and Sonny is now playing well.

It's literally that simple.
 
Wizaard said:
Carey was our best player today. He maybe should have had a hat trick in the first half, going past two then taking a touch too many before having a shot blocked, plus putting one into the side netting from a decent position.

He also put in some decent challenges and kept us on the front foot.

That follows on from a decent performance against Wycombe. Long may it continue.
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Unfortunately it’s a low bar at the moment
 
td53 said:
It was a quick pass anticipating a run that didn't happen. So what. Go again. He did.

When he's struggling he dithers and holds the ball too long. I'd far rather him play a quick attacking pass that didn't work out than him pivot and go backwards. Half of our problem as a team is an obsession with not losing possession. Sometimes the crowd drive me mad as they both hate Critchley's sideways and backwards shit but also get on the backs of players who lose the ball going forward. We can't have it both ways. Exciting teams lose the ball all the time. Players need to not fear that to play quick, incisive, instinctive football. I actually want Carey trying no look passes. I want some impudence. I want some confidence. I want us trying things.

Players will make mistakes. A player like Sonny will always cost you a goal here and there and he'll never be a great tackler, though to be honest, I think he's improved himself in that regard and he presses pretty well. I'd genuinely like to see the running stats as he's always moving.

He shoots more than anyone else (he's had 14 shots in the last 3 games and been the most shooty player in each one) and he'll thread it and try stuff and put little flipped balls in the box and so on. More of that and less of the crab football, shuffle it sideways don't shoot cos we might turn the ball over stuff.
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Yeah he can make a difference in driving us on, tye kink from the defence onwards, I'd rather see that than a safe backwards pass from Norburn tbh.

He's not perfect and has his flaws but you have to question why he's not thrived as much as people thought and whether the way we have played has been limiting.
 
Sooty59 said:
He was decent today but still hangs onto the ball a bit too long & loses it rather than passing it, that said the movement in front is next to none existent.
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If there's one thing that glaringly stands out in this division it's hanging on to the ball too long; just one more touch and....the chance has gone. It's not just Carey. It happens up and down League One.
 
Sonny impressed in the 2nd 45 at Derby and the first 45 against both Wycombe and Cambridge. My issue is that he rarely gives a complete 90 minute performance and when he does go off the boil he's almost invisible. It's a shame because the ability is there, he has a goal in him, he certainly has more vision than most. We've been told to be patient with him but how much time do you give him? I sort of hope we can agree a new deal but on the same hand wouldn't be overly disappointed if we moved on. He's a real enigma.
 
td53 said:
I'm glad we've come around to my point eventually 👍

I agree, good players are aware. They're not ALWAYS aware and passes sometimes go astray.

Sonny is a decent passer of a ball. He's not elite level mind blowing but in the context of our squad he's good. If you watch him, he's always 'scanning' - turning his head side to side and yes, he sometimes will hit an ambitious pass to no one, but Morgan does that and as I've said, I'm far less bothered about that than him going into his shell and getting 95% passing accuracy but not hitting anything ambitious. Same with Morgan.
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I watch him regularly and one of his best attributes this season has been hiding while pointing a lot and watching the game go by. Probably captain material! He does have a decent shot on him and has been better the last few games TBF, but he needs to do it more often. Can't help feeling he should have gone on loan when we first signed him.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
If there's one thing that glaringly stands out in this division it's hanging on to the ball too long; just one more touch and....the chance has gone. It's not just Carey. It happens up and down League One.
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See, I think that's partly about how we play. Critchley is cautious. He doesn't believe 'ok, we'll get another goal' - he thinks 'fine margins, keep it tight' and so on.

Peterborough are prone to lose the odd game quite badly. They're also prone to smash teams. You could really see when we played them (pk, be fair, we won one of those games) that they didn't worry at missing a chance or turning over possession. They believed deep down that they could just make another chance - and in all three games, the had long spells where they were excellent and just created opening after opening after opening.

I think Carey, Morgan, Joseph and a few other players (even Lavery to a degree) we have are those kind of players potentially. They would thrive in a forward thinking team. Byers too perhaps. Coulson I could see being decent thus.

I listened to Critchley before the game. Andy Bayes said 'how do you score more goals?' and Critchley said 'shooting boots, better finishing' and I thought... Neil... what about 'make more chances?' - it just seems to sum him up, he talks about 'quality in key moments' as the problem as if the system and process is unimpeachable.

WE'RE A LEAGUE ONE TEAM ON A LEAGUE 1 BUDGET.

The 'quality in key moments' is never going to be perfect, 100% clinical etc. If we want more goals, we need to make more chances and we're quite midtable in terms of the chances we've made. I'm getting tired of that 'it's the players not doing it perfectly that is the only problem' subtext.
 
Loco said:
I watch him regularly and one of his best attributes this season has been hiding while pointing a lot and watching the game go by. Probably captain material! He does have a decent shot on him and has been better the last few games TBF, but he needs to do it more often. Can't help feeling he should have gone on loan when we first signed him.
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The classic 'we don't move enough' vs 'why is Sonny trying to look for space' argument.

'Hiding' ffs.

I think some of you won't be happy till we've got 10 outfield players rushing after the ball and brawling and hacking to get it, like it's 1872.
 
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He played really well along with Byers in the first half.
He's an attacking midfield player who should be told to just surge forward and make things happen.
I still think we need to be stronger in midfield and dominate possession - we seem obsessed with wide players and the back 3 / 5.
I recall seeing that Byers is a free agent in the summer - let's hope we sign him.
Sheff Wed staying up would help that surely.
 
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