O/T Global warming!!

There's so much shite posted on climate change from both sides of the argument. Sorry but were all pissing in the wind on this one.
 
April13th1970 said:
I wonder if they thought that in the Medieval period when the earth is believed to have been warmer than it is today?
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The Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and Global Change is run by its president, Sherwood B. Idso, and his sons, founding chairman Craig Idso and vice chairman Keith Idso. The Center owns the website “CO2 Science,” and is closely affiliated with a longtime climate denial outfit called the Science and Environmental Policy Project, a name-on-paper organization that has promoted doubt over established scientific research for decades.

The Idso’s have produced a decades worth of scientific papers that have been used to attack U.S. and international climate change policies. Their conclusions represent an extreme fringe of scientific viewpoints–touting the supposed benefits of industrial carbon dioxide emissions–that are at odds with a majority of the world’s science institutions and 97% of published scientific research on the topic.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
The Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and Global Change is run by its president, Sherwood B. Idso, and his sons, founding chairman Craig Idso and vice chairman Keith Idso. The Center owns the website “CO2 Science,” and is closely affiliated with a longtime climate denial outfit called the Science and Environmental Policy Project, a name-on-paper organization that has promoted doubt over established scientific research for decades.

The Idso’s have produced a decades worth of scientific papers that have been used to attack U.S. and international climate change policies. Their conclusions represent an extreme fringe of scientific viewpoints–touting the supposed benefits of industrial carbon dioxide emissions–that are at odds with a majority of the world’s science institutions and 97% of published scientific research on the topic.
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il_340x270.3811597768_afiz.jpg
 
No media hysteria. This is folk confusing basic and solid science with political agendas. For some unknown reason climate change is now a right/left issue, it should not be.

Its actually pretty simple. You increase greenhouse gas concentrations in the atmosphere (CO2, methane etc), it traps heat in and the planet warms.

In the past 100 years CO2 concentrations have increased from 300 ppm to around 415 ppm. An astonishing rise. This is causing exceptional change to our global climate. This heatwave in the UK has obliterated all records and would not have possible without human induced climate change. It will have caused 100s/1000s excess deaths. It happens in every heatwave all over the world.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
Air conditioning created by electricity tht has been generated (very probably) by fossil fuels, thereby compounding the climate change problems.
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I think you’ll find most of the developed world has air conditioning, I doubt many people would go to Spain, Italy, Greece, Portugal etc, if they didn’t have air conditioning in hotels and restaurants.
 
Matesrates said:
I think you’ll find most of the developed world has air conditioning, I doubt many people would go to Spain, Italy, Greece, Portugal etc, if they didn’t have air conditioning in hotels and restaurants.
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I would, cant stand the thing.
 
It's not difficult to understand that the carbon sequestrated by trees etc which ultimately become coal and oil, is subsequently released when we burn it.

The issue is how long it to to sequestrate relative to how long it's taken to release it, which ultimately is about an over populated planet relative to the natural resources we have to live in relative equilibrium.

The renewable stuff will start making noticeable impacts on our dependency on fossil fuels in the developed world, far less likely in the developing world in the near future; but won't fundamentally shift the over population of the planet.

It's tricky, but we are more than capable of engineering our way out of it.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
Thank you for your courteous reply. Since global warming first came to everyone's notice and the public began to favour carbon-saving policies we have seen the election of Britain's first Green MP and councillors. Domestic waste has begun to be seperated into marked bins. There has been a growth in green energy initiatives, both domestically and commercially.The large oil companies have been falling over each other to publicise their green credentials. Governments have legislated to remove diesel-fuelled cars from the road. Commercial aircraft manufacturers have brought more carbon-efficient engines to the market. Energy-efficient lightbulbs are now a significant part of the lighting industry - again, domestically and commercially.

In addition to these few things I have quickly reeled off, there are far more initiatives cropping up all the time. Yes, some of them will be more PR than reality but my point stands. Businesses and Governments make these changes because there is a public that sees the importance of making these changes. Your scornful words are empty of meaning.
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I think you will find that MOST of them are more PR than reality. The stark reality is that if we all wanted to be green and save the planet then all we would have to do would be to stop eating meat and stop raising livestock. Noones wants to know as soon as someone says that. Green bulbs and electric cars mean shit all in the war on climate change if everyone continues to eat meat. Do some research and then come back to me please hun.
 
It's all a bit primitive predicting end of days scenarios every five minutes. Like medieval, let me just consult the soothsayer, I'll dunk you in the pond if you disagree, primitive.
 
Matesrates said:
Unless some nutter decides to eliminate humans with some yet to be discovered bomb, I think we can guarantee that. Chill, it’s going to be fine.
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A bit idiotic as usual Matesrates. You're arguing against the vast majority of scientific evidence. When you take a paracetamol you trust the silence right??..so why not on climate change. There's so much evidence out there now but you choose to look the other way.

My eleven year old daughter could win a debate on global warming against people like you.
 
kuriousoranj said:
A bit idiotic as usual Matesrates. You're arguing against the vast majority of scientific evidence. When you take a paracetamol you trust the silence right??..so why not on climate change. There's so much evidence out there now but you choose to look the other way.

My eleven year old daughter could win a debate on global warming against people like you.
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Well there we go, you’ve made an assumption without knowing me, and then proceeded to insult me, I guess that makes you feel good behind your keyboard. For the record, I do agree global warming is happening and that man has contributed. I’m not though, accepting that Armageddon is imminent
 
Matesrates said:
Well there we go, you’ve made an assumption without knowing me, and then proceeded to insult me, I guess that makes you feel good behind your keyboard. For the record, I do agree global warming is happening and that man has contributed. I’m not though, accepting that Armageddon is imminent
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But the science says it may be too late if we don't act now. It also warns that it may be too late whatever we do. Average temperatures across the plant are on the rise and excelerating year on year. Hot extreme weather like today starts forest fires which destroy millions of trees globally every year and therefore more carbons are released. It also weakens the atmospheres defences. It's a vicious cycle.

"but it'll be all reet"

"I’m not though, accepting that Armageddon is imminent"

Tell me, how do we break the cycle, vote for muppets like Trump and Johnson?
 
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kuriousoranj said:
But the science says it may be too late if we don't act now. It also warns that it may be too late whatever we do. Average temperatures across the plant are on the rise and excelerating year on year. Hot extreme weather like today starts forest fires which destroys millions of trees globally every year and therefore more carbons are released. It also weakens the atmospheres defences. It's a vicious cycle.

"but it'll be all reet"

"I’m not though, accepting that Armageddon is imminent"

Tell me, how do we break the cycle, vote for muppets like Trump and Johnson?
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You seem to have all the knowledge, so tell us what you would do, I’m not an expert in this field.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
Thank you for your courteous reply. Since global warming first came to everyone's notice and the public began to favour carbon-saving policies we have seen the election of Britain's first Green MP and councillors. Domestic waste has begun to be seperated into marked bins. There has been a growth in green energy initiatives, both domestically and commercially.The large oil companies have been falling over each other to publicise their green credentials. Governments have legislated to remove diesel-fuelled cars from the road. Commercial aircraft manufacturers have brought more carbon-efficient engines to the market. Energy-efficient lightbulbs are now a significant part of the lighting industry - again, domestically and commercially.

In addition to these few things I have quickly reeled off, there are far more initiatives cropping up all the time. Yes, some of them will be more PR than reality but my point stands. Businesses and Governments make these changes because there is a public that sees the importance of making these changes. Your scornful words are empty of meaning.
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Well said. There are far too many D&Gers.

Being at the forefront of decarbonisation, I have done a lot of research and there are many solutions that are currently in their infancy. But, if we utilise them all, then they will eventually have a massive effect on the planet. I'll throw a few names out there. Green hydrogen (not keen myself, but has uses), carbon capture (so many companies competing with various technologies), supercritical CO2 Gas turbines (a brilliant invention by a British professor), geothermal energy (my favourite and potential global saviour) combined with the Organic Rankine Cycle.

Cheer up everyone. Britain is even leading with some of these!
 
Rotterdam+Sussex_Seasider said:
Well said. There are far too many D&Gers.

Being at the forefront of decarbonisation, I have done a lot of research and there are many solutions that are currently in their infancy. But, if we utilise them all, then they will eventually have a massive effect on the planet. I'll throw a few names out there. Green hydrogen (not keen myself, but has uses), carbon capture (so many companies competing with various technologies), supercritical CO2 Gas turbines (a brilliant invention by a British professor), geothermal energy (my favourite and potential global saviour) combined with the Organic Rankine Cycle.

Cheer up everyone. Britain is even leading with some of these!
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Love it
 
What annoys me is Sky news headline saying multiple deaths and then goes on to tell us of 3 people who have died in beach/water incidents. Tragic for those peoples families of course, but the headline is just ridiculously wrong.
 
Matesrates said:
You seem to have all the knowledge, so tell us what you would do, I’m not an expert in this field.
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I vote for political parties that seriously attempt to address environmental issues. I would never laugh at Extinction Rebellion or the Greta Grunbergs of this world. You've got to be really simple to not realise this its the biggest issue facing the planet.
 
kuriousoranj said:
I vote for political parties that seriously attempt to address environmental issues. I would never laugh at Extinction Rebellion or the Greta Grunbergs of this world. You've got to be really simple to not realise this its the biggest issue facing the planet.
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Now you’re suggesting I’m simple even though I’ve told you I agree that global warming is a problem. You seem to just want to argue with somebody, so I’ll let you get on with it.
 
Rotterdam+Sussex_Seasider said:
Well said. There are far too many D&Gers.

Being at the forefront of decarbonisation, I have done a lot of research and there are many solutions that are currently in their infancy. But, if we utilise them all, then they will eventually have a massive effect on the planet. I'll throw a few names out there. Green hydrogen (not keen myself, but has uses), carbon capture (so many companies competing with various technologies), supercritical CO2 Gas turbines (a brilliant invention by a British professor), geothermal energy (my favourite and potential global saviour) combined with the Organic Rankine Cycle.

Cheer up everyone. Britain is even leading with some of these!
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Nice list.

"There are far too many D&Gers"
I prefer realists.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
Can you remember the last time we had a cold winter, five years ago?
kuriousoranj said:
I vote for political parties that seriously attempt to address environmental issues. I would never laugh at Extinction Rebellion or the Greta Grunbergs of this world. You've got to be really simple to not realise this its the biggest issue facing the planet.
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I’m just wondering if once again this is an aged based debate?
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It seems to be (my opinion based on people I know) that it is the over 60s that don’t seem to care about climate change or the impact.
40-60s are split down the middle and below 40 are significantly concerned and want immediate action even if it reduces living standards in the short term.

I’m wondering if the same is happening here in terms of age and viewpoints?
 
Looking at this objectively…..

We know over the history of our planet it has been hotter and colder than it is today, and that those temperatures have varied globally.

If you have any doubt In this - there is no argument we had an ice age - and fossil fuels were also created around the planet which generally needs different conditions than ice and snow.

So how much of this is down to man or nature??

What I do think I know is, that pumping crap into the atmosphere is bad and that consuming everything is really bad, dropping plastics everywhere is nothing short of criminal and not doing anything is probably earth genocide!!!

So although I am not 100% convinced how much man (or woman or whatever) is causing this - we are defo not helping and making it worse.

…and yes we need to do something big and probably fast!!!

…but can we change this long term? - I doubt it, but we can probably slow it down!!!
 
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seasideone said:
Looking at this objectively…..

We know over the history of our planet it has been hotter and colder than it is today, and that those temperatures have varied globally.

If you have any doubt In this - there is no argument we had an ice age - and fossil fuels were also created around the planet which generally needs different conditions than ice and snow.

So how much of this is down to man or nature??

What I do think I know is, that pumping crap into the atmosphere is bad and that consuming everything is really bad, dropping plastics everywhere is nothing short of criminal and not doing anything is probably earth genocide!!!

So although I am not 100% convinced how much man (or woman or whatever) is causing this - we are defo not helping and making it worse.

…and yes we need to do something big and probably fast!!!

…but can we change this long term? - I doubt it!!!
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This is somewhat confusing:

On the one you seem to accept the scientific body of literature that shows there have been substantial variations in our climate in the past over a variety of different timescales and causes.

But then on the other hand you do not accept that the same group of scientists who have discovered past variations in climate, also say, unequivocally, that current warming has been driven entirely by humans.
 
MeanLeanTangerineMachine said:
This is somewhat confusing:

On the one you seem to accept the scientific body of literature that shows there have been substantial variations in our climate in the past over a variety of different timescales and causes.

But then on the other hand you do not accept that the same group of scientists who have discovered past variations in climate, also say, unequivocally, that current warming has been driven entirely by humans.
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I think on the balance of probability it’s the planet and man definitely accelerating it.
 
Rotterdam+Sussex_Seasider said:
Well said. There are far too many D&Gers.

Being at the forefront of decarbonisation, I have done a lot of research and there are many solutions that are currently in their infancy. But, if we utilise them all, then they will eventually have a massive effect on the planet. I'll throw a few names out there. Green hydrogen (not keen myself, but has uses), carbon capture (so many companies competing with various technologies), supercritical CO2 Gas turbines (a brilliant invention by a British professor), geothermal energy (my favourite and potential global saviour) combined with the Organic Rankine Cycle.

Cheer up everyone. Britain is even leading with some of these!
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Way beyond my Ken RSS but it sounds positive.
 
TheAppyBus said:
I think you will find that MOST of them are more PR than reality. The stark reality is that if we all wanted to be green and save the planet then all we would have to do would be to stop eating meat and stop raising livestock. Noones wants to know as soon as someone says that. Green bulbs and electric cars mean shit all in the war on climate change if everyone continues to eat meat. Do some research and then come back to me please hun.
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Courteous as ever. Yes, stopping eating meat and raising livestock would be a major - but not sufficient - contributor to a solution.
Why do you have to be so objectionable in saying so?
 
Rotterdam+Sussex_Seasider said:
As my work is heavily involved in the energy transition, I hear the arguments for and against every day. I totally agree that our impact is small compared to India, China etc. but I do believe that we should take the moral lead. Also, being the leader should have a positive impact on the developing industry in this country.

Oh, and as a pedant, the current 'weather' is not down to global warming but the climate (and frequency of such events) is.
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It's not per head though and I'm surprised someone so connected to the subject presents this as an argument.
China has made relatively big reductions in energy use and emissions over a relatively short period.
 
MeanLeanTangerineMachine said:
No media hysteria. This is folk confusing basic and solid science with political agendas. For some unknown reason climate change is now a right/left issue, it should not be.

Its actually pretty simple. You increase greenhouse gas concentrations in the atmosphere (CO2, methane etc), it traps heat in and the planet warms.

In the past 100 years CO2 concentrations have increased from 300 ppm to around 415 ppm. An astonishing rise. This is causing exceptional change to our global climate. This heatwave in the UK has obliterated all records and would not have possible without human induced climate change. It will have caused 100s/1000s excess deaths. It happens in every heatwave all over the world.
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I don't believe it is a left v right issue.I believe it is an issue between those who want to protect the the world, its life and humanity, and those wo benefit from carbon-based fuels, those who profit and their political clients.
 
Matesrates said:
What annoys me is Sky news headline saying multiple deaths and then goes on to tell us of 3 people who have died in beach/water incidents. Tragic for those peoples families of course, but the headline is just ridiculously wrong.
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So far In Spain and Portugal nearly 2,000 people have died, all heat related and in just one week.
 
So many with their knickers in a twist over a few extra ppm of CO2 (which is causing the planet to become greener) and yet no-one gives a shit that we are consuming untold amounts of micro-plastics which are now so prevalent they are present in people's internal organs.

You want your doomsday scenario? Mass sterility from plastic poisoning.

Modern society is evil. Tear it all down and start again.
 
Ships having to be rescued by an ice cutter, in the Artic, as the thickest July ice for a number of years reported. But you won't hear that on the BBC.
 
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