Our youth loans.

Thatseasider

Well-known member
@Insider might have a better handle on this than me.

But given we’ve seen how Arsenal have loaned out their best young talent to us a league below at the tender age of 18 in effect to groom him for top level football. Why are we doing things like this with Holmes?

Is it just me or should Holmes and people like Apter and Moore be advancing past these sort of Loans now and going for season longs to National League or League 2?

Edit to add I do have faith in how the club operates and this isn’t intended to be a standard moan at the club, but I’m just not sure I see what the value is here.

Holmes had a very poor set of loans last year and he really needs to have a good solid year, I heard that we’re bringing a ‘reserve’ team back this year so will he be playing in that more and this is just his warm up.

Just seems bizarre and not what I’d do.
 

Insider

Well-known member
Good question.
The thing about youth loans is that they are short term. If they don't work out you move on.
It's no good getting stuck at Barrow for 6, or even 12 months, not starting and not even training at BFC
I never really saw much of Brad through his u18s career because it was in the "Covid years" but he does look to have stalled a little bit in his progress so possibly youth loans will suit him best, hope he progresses, then look for a step up the ladder after Christmas
Jack Moore is in his first year so again I would have thought a Youth loan would suit him best.
Rob Apter is clearly the closest to the 1st team squad but with every forward player that comes in it looks like he's moving down the pecking order.
He wasn't even on the bench last Saturday so at the very least I'd say he needs at least a half season loan, if possible at League 2 or even above, but he needs to play and nobody will guarantee that.
I will be very interested to see what the decision on Rob is but in the very short term I'd at least give him a start in his correct position in the front three against Barrow Tuesday.
 

Seasidedaz

Well-known member
@Insider might have a better handle on this than me.

But given we’ve seen how Arsenal have loaned out their best young talent to us a league below at the tender age of 18 in effect to groom him for top level football. Why are we doing things like this with Holmes?

Is it just me or should Holmes and people like Apter and Moore be advancing past these sort of Loans now and going for season longs to National League or League 2?

Edit to add I do have faith in how the club operates and this isn’t intended to be a standard moan at the club, but I’m just not sure I see what the value is here.

Holmes had a very poor set of loans last year and he really needs to have a good solid year, I heard that we’re bringing a ‘reserve’ team back this year so will he be playing in that more and this is just his warm up.

Just seems bizarre and not what I’d do.
In my view Holmes quite simply is not good enough for National League let alone league 1 or 2. Showed real promise as a youth team striker but simply has not kicked on in the way Apter has. He was dreadful against Leeds I think it was and got hooked off after 30 mins or something I think as Appleton could see him struggling. Sad to say but when his contract is up (end of this season but might be wrong) he will be released unless he has a stella goal scoring year this season.
 

Grumpy_no_more

Well-known member
The ideal would be to loan our youth players to League 2 or even League 1, and we've probably taken some soundings. But there are two parties to every loan and it's likely we've had no interest in taking them. So we have to drop down the leagues.

If Holmes can play regularly at Fylde then it would be beneficial for him. Sitting on the bench with the occasional late sub, won't.

There's also the finance aspect that AFC Fylde will, I hope, be paying his wages.

I don't know how often this "reserve" team will play. Those not named in the main squad would benefit more by playing regularly wherever that is.
 

voyeur

Well-known member
It's a good sign for any future loans, Arsenal must be happy with MA to allow this.
They'll also have had feedback about the club from Ballard and TJJ. Safe pair of hands and a coach with a good track record with young loan players.

Holmes will get a higher level when his performances and stats at tier 6 indicate hes above that level.
 

KingZobo

Well-known member
What makes you think L1 & L2 teams want our untested players who haven't exactly lit up the conference?

* for the record I rate Holmes but youth players will never get a chance at Bpool. Too big of a gap from kids team to mens.
 

Thatseasider

Well-known member
Good question.
The thing about youth loans is that they are short term. If they don't work out you move on.
It's no good getting stuck at Barrow for 6, or even 12 months, not starting and not even training at BFC
I never really saw much of Brad through his u18s career because it was in the "Covid years" but he does look to have stalled a little bit in his progress so possibly youth loans will suit him best, hope he progresses, then look for a step up the ladder after Christmas
Jack Moore is in his first year so again I would have thought a Youth loan would suit him best.
Rob Apter is clearly the closest to the 1st team squad but with every forward player that comes in it looks like he's moving down the pecking order.
He wasn't even on the bench last Saturday so at the very least I'd say he needs at least a half season loan, if possible at League 2 or even above, but he needs to play and nobody will guarantee that.
I will be very interested to see what the decision on Rob is but in the very short term I'd at least give him a start in his correct position in the front three against Barrow Tuesday.
Thanks for the reply.

Sorry phrased it slightly wrongly as I was rushing to get out to Stoke.

I just meant the strategy we have for our youth players seems disjointed, so whilst the actual Youth loans for people like Moore are probably still appropriate, Apter and Holmes really need strong season long loans at this point to cement their careers.

Look at Rhys Williams for instance. At 18 spent a season with Kidderminster, his interviews after that show how beneficial regular means football was to him.

Something seems to be out of kilter with it all why haven’t we identified clubs and managers that can develop these boys where they go to a place where without agreement we know they’ll get regular game time.
Maybe it takes time and the youth set up here is still in its infancy.

Or perhaps as @Seasidedaz says, Holmes unfortunately won’t be able to compete at the level the club currently operates in. Sad to see as I’m starting to lean that way too. I was disappointed at how poor he was in the Leeds game. Holmes really seems to have stalled and I just hope Apter doesn’t now as he is a real talent.

To me Apter needs at least a 6 month league loan.
 

Insider

Well-known member
Thanks for the reply.

Sorry phrased it slightly wrongly as I was rushing to get out to Stoke.

I just meant the strategy we have for our youth players seems disjointed, so whilst the actual Youth loans for people like Moore are probably still appropriate, Apter and Holmes really need strong season long loans at this point to cement their careers.

Look at Rhys Williams for instance. At 18 spent a season with Kidderminster, his interviews after that show how beneficial regular means football was to him.

Something seems to be out of kilter with it all why haven’t we identified clubs and managers that can develop these boys where they go to a place where without agreement we know they’ll get regular game time.
Maybe it takes time and the youth set up here is still in its infancy.

Or perhaps as @Seasidedaz says, Holmes unfortunately won’t be able to compete at the level the club currently operates in. Sad to see as I’m starting to lean that way too. I was disappointed at how poor he was in the Leeds game. Holmes really seems to have stalled and I just hope Apter doesn’t now as he is a real talent.

To me Apter needs at least a 6 month league loan.
I think the answer is partly the (unjustified) criticism that is levelled against me by those that keep reminding me we are a Category 3 Academy which means they can't be any good. Poolseasider even says it at #5 above.
You can of course have good players in a Cat 3 Academy but quite obviously overall they are below the standard of Categories 1 & 2 so they need to progress starting at a lower level than, using your example, Rhys Williams.
A bit of patience is needed until the new training ground is up and running and then hopefully our Academy will move up a level.
 

tangysider

Well-known member
I think Jack Moore is needed in the squad till Gabriel is fit to cover Connolly.
Again Apter probably needed to cover Thompson till Hubby fit, and possibly play him in place of CJ.
I would bet both get game time against Barrow, as Appleton singled them out for praise
 

1966_and_all_that

Well-known member
It might also be the case that the club is trying to give Holmes experience at a level where he might be able to build a career. It can't be just about what the youngsters can do for the club.
 

tommytwojags

Well-known member
Brad Holmes was hooked by Fylde's manager after about an hour. He won't be an automatic starter at Fylde but will learn a lot from experienced players like Haughton and Cullen.
 

Thatseasider

Well-known member
I think the answer is partly the (unjustified) criticism that is levelled against me by those that keep reminding me we are a Category 3 Academy which means they can't be any good. Poolseasider even says it at #5 above.
You can of course have good players in a Cat 3 Academy but quite obviously overall they are below the standard of Categories 1 & 2 so they need to progress starting at a lower level than, using your example, Rhys Williams.
A bit of patience is needed until the new training ground is up and running and then hopefully our Academy will move up a level.
I had similar thoughts as to this.

Our youth set up will no doubt go through the gears in the next 5 years. Perhaps Holmes and Apter are good enough and just unfortunate with the timing of their careers with us.

I hope Apter gets a solid loan at league level this year. He’s a real talent.
 

Kh093

Active member
In my view Holmes quite simply is not good enough for National League let alone league 1 or 2. Showed real promise as a youth team striker but simply has not kicked on in the way Apter has. He was dreadful against Leeds I think it was and got hooked off after 30 mins or something I think as Appleton could see him struggling. Sad to say but when his contract is up (end of this season but might be wrong) he will be released unless he has a stella goal scoring year this season.
Hi guys can
@Insider might have a better handle on this than me.

But given we’ve seen how Arsenal have loaned out their best young talent to us a league below at the tender age of 18 in effect to groom him for top level football. Why are we doing things like this with Holmes?

Is it just me or should Holmes and people like Apter and Moore be advancing past these sort of Loans now and going for season longs to National League or League 2?

Edit to add I do have faith in how the club operates and this isn’t intended to be a standard moan at the club, but I’m just not sure I see what the value is here.

Holmes had a very poor set of loans last year and he really needs to have a good solid year, I heard that we’re bringing a ‘reserve’ team back this year so will he be playing in that more and this is just his warm up.

Just seems bizarre and not what I’d do.
holme
@Insider might have a better handle on this than me.

But given we’ve seen how Arsenal have loaned out their best young talent to us a league below at the tender age of 18 in effect to groom him for top level football. Why are we doing things like this with Holmes?

Is it just me or should Holmes and people like Apter and Moore be advancing past these sort of Loans now and going for season longs to National League or League 2?

Edit to add I do have faith in how the club operates and this isn’t intended to be a standard moan at the club, but I’m just not sure I see what the value is here.

Holmes had a very poor set of loans last year and he really needs to have a good solid year, I heard that we’re bringing a ‘reserve’ team back this year so will he be playing in that more and this is just his warm up.

Just seems bizarre and not what I’d do.
hi jus to put a point out there brad didn’t have poor loan he started aunited an scored 12 in 16…an a fan favourite…he then went to Chorley that didn’t work out as he was used jus for a number…when he finally got his chance an started he got 2 goals an assist in 4 games also got fans player of the month…Chorley then went a got a permanent forward which put Brad on bench..at 19 it totally knocked his confidence…
In my view Holmes quite simply is not good enough for National League let alone league 1 or 2. Showed real promise as a youth team striker but simply has not kicked on in the way Apter has. He was dreadful against Leeds I think it was and got hooked off after 30 mins or something I think as Appleton could see him struggling. Sad to say but when his contract is up (end of this season but might be wrong) he will be released unless he has a stella goal scoring year this season.
wow you guys know how to put a player down..we talkin about kids here with a lot of talent…and they all develop at diff levels and times…he played against Leeds who were a seriously strong side his head went,so obvs not ready but I thought he defended well bar couple mistakes,..he then went back to 23’s an scored 5 in 7 so u tell me he not good enough how
 

Kh093

Active member
Brad Holmes was hooked by Fylde's manager after about an hour. He won't be an automatic starter at Fylde but will learn a lot from experienced players like Haughton and Cullen.
How was brads hooked??it was his first day with a team he never trained with…you guys on here baffle me…give him some positive an you’ll get a great player
 

BlackpoolJord

Well-known member
Because every time we have seen them, they have looked lightweight and not very good at football?

Yes we would all love it if we produced our own players, but at the end of the day, if they are shit then there isn't much we can do about it
 

Barmy tangerine

Well-known member
@Insider might have a better handle on this than me.

But given we’ve seen how Arsenal have loaned out their best young talent to us a league below at the tender age of 18 in effect to groom him for top level football. Why are we doing things like this with Holmes?

Is it just me or should Holmes and people like Apter and Moore be advancing past these sort of Loans now and going for season longs to National League or League 2?

Edit to add I do have faith in how the club operates and this isn’t intended to be a standard moan at the club, but I’m just not sure I see what the value is here.

Holmes had a very poor set of loans last year and he really needs to have a good solid year, I heard that we’re bringing a ‘reserve’ team back this year so will he be playing in that more and this is just his warm up.

Just seems bizarre and not what I’d do.
lol
Because every time we have seen them, they have looked lightweight and not very good at football?

Yes we would all love it if we produced our own players, but at the end of the day, if they are shit then there isn't much we can do about it
so you have seen Every game then ?? Saying he’s shit can’t play football from what 29 mins of football you’ve seen how many games have you seen him play?? to state he’s shit also I’m just wondering what coaching qualification you have and managerial skills in football to state you spot he can’t play football I’d love to do that course or is it your little tatty arm chair that’s prob in dented from your fat arse that only gets a little break when you go to pick your dole up these young lads get the odd few minutes that’s not enough time for anyone to judge unless you go to these games especially the youth games in which they do play I dont think you can have any opinion some people on here are an absolute joke claim they go and watch the youth week in week out but then admittedly claim they haven’t actually seen certain ones play due to Covid . Yet give little updates on here on match days of the academy Twitter and then say Holmes struggling to find his old form now I might be wrong but the lads scored 5 goals in 6 games unless you’ve watched evry game in person I don’t know how you can make that claim secondly they have played a lot of games behind closed doors I know last week they played Burnley I was there because of work Charlie Adam was Burnley’s u23 manager I over heard him grab Holmes after the game and say you played fucking brilliant today so opinions from pros and REAL managers that know what there talking about are what counts not some wannabe that think they know better than the managers and directors calling players shit the only person that’s shit pal is you
 

Barmy tangerine

Well-known member
In my view Holmes quite simply is not good enough for National League let alone league 1 or 2. Showed real promise as a youth team striker but simply has not kicked on in the way Apter has. He was dreadful against Leeds I think it was and got hooked off after 30 mins or something I think as Appleton could see him struggling. Sad to say but when his contract is up (end of this season but might be wrong) he will be released unless he has a stella goal scoring year this season.
Just wondering how many games you’ve seen him play also being as your so knowledgable of Holmes career and talent how many goals has he scored for you to state he’s not good enough even for national league how many games did you go to last year and see him ?? Have you been to any of the u23 games of late where he’s actually played full games first time in over 12 months and scored evry game bar 1 🤣 I over heard the academy manager say it’s nice to see you back smiling Brad seeing you play regular football it’s obv knocked his confidence not playing for so long there only kids and writing them off is a joke especially saying he’ll be released unless you watch evry minute of every game you’ve got no idea to make that claim absolute pathetic comment
 

Barmy tangerine

Well-known member
Just wondering how many games you’ve seen him play also being as your so knowledgable of Holmes career and talent how many goals has he scored for you to state he’s not good enough even for national league how many games did you go to last year and see him ?? Have you been to any of the u23 games of late where he’s actually played full games first time in over 12 months and scored evry game bar 1 🤣 I over heard the academy manager say it’s nice to see you back smiling Brad seeing you play regular football it’s obv knocked his confidence not playing for so long there only kids and writing them off is a joke especially saying he’ll be released unless you watch evry minute of every game you’ve got no idea to make that claim absolute pathetic comment
Also being as your so knowledgable on Holmes you’d notice against Leeds he was OUT of position also plus the ball never came his end he’s a striker they got beat 4.0 I think you’ll find there was many that was dreadful mate
 

TKL_Seasider

Well-known member
The club arnt a charity
It’s got nothing to do with being a charity.

Clearly a footballer who signs for a club wants to have a career with that club.

By the same token, becoming a first-team player for the club you apprentice with is very long odds. Only a handful even manage an appearance.

The second choice is, for most young players, to make something else of their experience … whether that’s getting some academic qualifications, getting a US scholarship (as one of our young lads did recently) … or making a career at a lower level.

Showing that you can offer a pathway to these things *if the ultimate goal of reaching the first team doesn’t happen* is therefore an attractive recruiting tool when competing for young players (or to stop them going to Cat1/2 poachers)
 

Insider

Well-known member
Also being as your so knowledgable on Holmes you’d notice against Leeds he was OUT of position also plus the ball never came his end he’s a striker they got beat 4.0 I think you’ll find there was many that was dreadful mate
I've no problem you coming on here and defending Brad, it's admirable. I certainly don't have any coaching qualifications just a life time of watching football and I just offer opinions. If you read anything I do post I will never come on here after watching a youth game and say "Joe Bloggs" was shit.
Just for the record though what level of coaching badges have you got?
Secondly how many times has Charlie Adam watched Brad play?
Finally I sincerely hope that Brad becomes an established first team player.
 

Thatseasider

Well-known member
It’s got nothing to do with being a charity.

Clearly a footballer who signs for a club wants to have a career with that club.

By the same token, becoming a first-team player for the club you apprentice with is very long odds. Only a handful even manage an appearance.

The second choice is, for most young players, to make something else of their experience … whether that’s getting some academic qualifications, getting a US scholarship (as one of our young lads did recently) … or making a career at a lower level.

Showing that you can offer a pathway to these things *if the ultimate goal of reaching the first team doesn’t happen* is therefore an attractive recruiting tool when competing for young players (or to stop them going to Cat1/2 poachers)
You’ve misunderstood why I said that. The suggestion was, we’re setting up these sub optimal loans for him because We’re being kind to him with the implication by 1966 that he isn’t going to make it with us. Therefore we’re being charitable and offering him loans that are acclimatising him to a level of football he can make a career in.

I’m sorry that’s just utter nonsense for a few reasons.
 

Thatseasider

Well-known member
I've no problem you coming on here and defending Brad, it's admirable. I certainly don't have any coaching qualifications just a life time of watching football and I just offer opinions. If you read anything I do post I will never come on here after watching a youth game and say "Joe Bloggs" was shit.
Just for the record though what level of coaching badges have you got?
Secondly how many times has Charlie Adam watched Brad play?
Finally I sincerely hope that Brad becomes an established first team player.
I was about to reply to them both but I just can’t bring myself to.

They’re obviously Brad’s family or close friends and only post on threads related to him. I actually had half a thought that it might be Brad himself, I sincerely hope not because a player reading this board isn’t healthy.

Anyway they can’t seem to grasp that this the majority of this thread and the majority of posts about Homes and other young players is never a criticism, they’re often asking questions of he club and how the young players are progressing.

As you correctly point out we all hope people like Holmes and Apter have cracking careers and with us to boot.
 

AndrewDuncanSmith

Well-known member
Brad Holmes is only on loan for a month possibly to keep his fitness levels up
Appleton may have plans to gradually introduce him to the 1st team squad as
our present forwards aren t scoring many goals.
 

Kh093

Active member
As well as people have been puttin holmes down…did u guys know he goes out of his way on a Sunday to help support grass roots football around the town…he also promoted a girls football team the other week..to me a very humble boy that lost his confidence…
 
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