Over 60k Deaths

Most of those of course were from the first wave, we're actually doing quite well in the second wave compared to some of our neighbours.


Edit:

I'm a bit surprised when looking more deeply that the split is only 35:25 for the first wave, I thought that would've been more pronounced.
 
Most of those of course were from the first wave, we're actually doing quite well in the second wave compared to some of our neighbours.


Edit:

I'm a bit surprised when looking more deeply that the split is only 35:25 for the first wave, I thought that would've been more pronounced.
Yes i dont think we are doing a lot better with the 2nd wave tbh. Over 10k people have died in just over 3 weeks.
Hopefully with the recent lockdown & restrictions the figures will now come down significantly and we wont lose 10s of thousands more before the vaccine can be rolled out.
 
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In a matter of months & thats with 2 lockdowns and a load of restrictions.
Some suggest that number is conservative
Imagine how many without most people making an effort to stop the spread.
Some people dont believe its an issue.
Very Sad ☹️

How do you know it would have been any different without these pathetic lockdowns?
 
Yes i dont think we are doing a lot better with the 2nd wave tbh. over 10k people have died in just over 3 weeks.

Not good.

That said things are worse in Belgium, France, Spain, Italy and if you look at the rate at which they're occuring it was increasing far more slowly than in the first wave, never reached anywhere near the same peak and is now declining.

The problem is that the first wave was at the tail end of winter with Spring able to help us out, this second wave is as we're going in to winter so it's going to hang around much longer and be harder to get rid of.

Also it does depend upon what metric you use, that 60,000 is the deaths within 28 days of a test excludes about 14,000 deaths from the first wave where Covid was suspected and on the death certificate, but no test was available, in comparison the "28 day" measure is if anything now overcounting the number of deaths.
 
ten months in and you still cant understand how these deaths are being falsely recorded.

On a massive scale btw.
 
What surprised me was to hear that of the lives to be saved by the vaccine as many as 99% were going to be amongst those considered to be the in the highest priority for receiving the vaccine. I don’t quite know what to say about that as whatever I may write is likely to offend someone or other!
 
How do you know it would have been any different without these pathetic lockdowns?
Common sense my pretty Poulton lass.
Do you think virtually the whole of the planet imposed measures & restrictions to curb the spread of the virus for sweet FA? 🤣 🤣
 
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do you know any that’s had flu yet this autum?
Personally dont know anyone who has had flu in the last 5 years.
Im sure people have though. Are you saying Covid is flu? Its not if it was we would have a vaccine already.
 
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I've been told of two people I know who have died today, plus one more just come off a ventilator. Making light of the impact is putting everyone at risk, as a blasé attitude will undoubtedly lead to a higher infection rate.
Very sorry to hear that Wiz.
Unfortunately some will continue to think people suffering & losing loved ones doesnt matter.
 
I've been told of two people I know who have died today, plus one more just come off a ventilator. Making light of the impact is putting everyone at risk, as a blasé attitude will undoubtedly lead to a higher infection rate.
Agree
 
Personally dont know anyone who has had flu in the last 5 years.
Im sure people have though. Are you saying Covid is flu? Its not if it was we would have a vaccine already.
Nope but I’m saying if youve got flu and have one of these daft tests you’d be positive☹️
 
So what's the true number of deaths Obi Wan?
well without going through every single death certificate and being able to determine what level of cycle threshold was used in each deceased individual then I would look at the false positive rate of the PCR test which is between 0.8% and 4%. I would then subtract that false positive rate from the total number of tests undertaken,not from the positive tests recorded.Very important. I would then be left with a figure of false positive tests that I could subtract from the number of positive tests recorded and it would leave me with an approximate figure of true deaths.
 
Half a million dead was the estimated figure given if we did nothing...
You've only got to look at countries and US states that didn't lock down to understand this figure is complete make believe. I'm not saying people aren't dying from this thing but as for whether all of these interventions actually do anything - or cause more harm than good - well, the jury is out.
 
well without going through every single death certificate and being able to determine what level of cycle threshold was used in each deceased individual then I would look at the false positive rate of the PCR test which is between 0.8% and 4%. I would then subtract that false positive rate from the total number of tests undertaken,not from the positive tests recorded.Very important. I would then be left with a figure of false positive tests that I could subtract from the number of positive tests recorded and it would leave me with an approximate figure of true deaths.
So in your best estimate 4% of deaths are not from Covid 🧐 . So thats 2400 from 60k? Erm Yippee
Excess deaths are at nearly 70k for the year, surely that says it all?
 
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Nope but I’m saying if youve got flu and have one of these daft tests you’d be positive☹️
I dunno not sure how many people catch flu each year? Highly doubt over 1 million people in the UK have caught flu since march?
This is a different virus that seems a lot easier to catch than flu.
 
well without going through every single death certificate and being able to determine what level of cycle threshold was used in each deceased individual then I would look at the false positive rate of the PCR test which is between 0.8% and 4%. I would then subtract that false positive rate from the total number of tests undertaken,not from the positive tests recorded.Very important. I would then be left with a figure of false positive tests that I could subtract from the number of positive tests recorded and it would leave me with an approximate figure of true deaths.

Okay, so first off, we're carrying out about 20 tests per case detected, which is to say 5% of them are positive, so for that 4% figure to be true then you have to think that 80% or so of the positive tests are in fact false positives, likewise back in June/July we were doing 200+ tests per case detected, so even 0.8% false positive looks unlikely when only 0.5% of tests are positive anyway.

The 0.8% - 4% figure comes from Mayers & Baker (3 June), that paper starts with the words "the UK operational false positive rate is unknown"; as far as I can see the specificity of the test is now estimated to be 99.9% or higher, which is to say <0.1% false positive, so the test itself is highly accurate, the only substantial risk comes from cross-contamination and as evidenced above there doesn't seem to be much of that.

Next you will want to consider the fact that the probability of a test being a false positive is dependant on the probability of the patient having the virus in the first place, across the summer with very little virus about the chance is quite high that any individual test is false, in the middle of winter with lots of cases the chance becomes much smaller.

You will of course be aware that tests are usually only available for those with symptoms, thus people who take the test are likely to have the virus, and the chance of a test being a false positive becomes vanishingly small.

You'll also want to remember that those who've died after a positive test will likely have shown symptoms of the virus first, and died of something afterwards, which is a clue that something might've been wrong with them and again further reduces the chance of that test being a false positive.

None of which is to say that the 28 day measure is perfect, some deaths will be unconnected to the virus, not all deaths with a positive test end up with Covid on the death certificate, on the up side it is the most rapidly available measure so it's a good way to see which way we are going.

Finally, there is the simple fact of excess deaths, which doesn't care about PCR tests, or what's on the death certificate, and which also shows over 70,000 excess deaths so far this year.
 
Wales going back in to lockdown (again) from today after a big spike in Covid-19 infections.
Someone say we’re past the worst?🤔
 
The excess death figures are at somewhere near 80,000 since March and that is with all of the measures that we have taken. And as stated above, deaths from other infectious diseases will be lower this year because of the social distancing that is taking place, so the vast majority of these 80,000 are due to CV. In context, 80,000 excess deaths means that 1 in every 850 Britons has died since March above what could normally be expected.
 
Excess deaths is the figure that should be reported and in the news...that is the true cost of Covid and more importantly how poorly we have dealt with it...the knock on effect from how we have dealt with Covid to cancer, heart and other problem diseases is a massive factor and that is why the excess death figure is so important.
 
Wow didn’t realise we had so many eminent internationally qualified epidemiologists on this board.

However you try to nitpick, fiddle the figures or apply your swivel-eyed, foil-hatted ‘logic’ to it, Britain handled the pandemic abysmally and huge numbers of people are dead or facing health concerns that could last a lifetime because of it.

Lockdown one came too late, ended too quickly. Lockdown two came way too late, is ending way too quickly. Bending so Becky and Darren could have week in Spain this summer was a disaster brought about by a self-obsessed populace scaring weak-willed politicians. Kill granny Christmas will be another one. Gotta hope this vaccine works.

So glad to be out of it...
 
The excess death figures are the tell tale sign. Pushing 80 thousand in around 9 months is absolutely frightening & shows the true impact of the disease.
We are now just coming into our 1st full on winter with Covid. Unfortunately i think the figure will continue to rise significantly over the winter months until the vaccine rollout
OVER 500 MORE today ☹️
There should be a fall off soon though because of the recent lockdown.
Wouldnt be surprised if figures start to rise again in Jan though.
 
That's only the halfway house figure ie covid mentioned on the death certificate. If you want to look at deaths above the normal average...actually don't look, it's too shocking.

61,809 according to PHE https://fingertips.phe.org.uk/stati...lance/excess-mortality-in-england-latest.html

Very slightly over the "28 days" measure, about 8,000 below the number with Covid on the death certificate.

It's killed a lot of people across Europe, if you want to see shocking look at Belgium, Spain and Italy are both ahead of us (per capita), France just behind and closing, Czech Republic have got to within 90% of us from virtually zero at the end of September, Poland are having a hard time now, Austria too, compared to a lot of our neighbours our second wave is relatively mild.
 
The impact of restrictions is interesting pretty much all countries have imposed them in some form or other to try & limit the spread.
Most scientists agree that until there is a mass vaccine rollout it is the best way to limit the impact of the disease & keep infections & deaths down.

Some would prefer to crack on & think they are not needed.
Some think the impact of the disease has been overplayed and deaths exaggerated

If anything i think unfortunately the true number of deaths will have been seriously underreported & downplayed in a number of Countries.
 
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