Pensions

Shandypants

Shandypants

Well-known member
Just read a stat that within two years the state pension will cost the govt per annum more than the combined budget for education, police and defence.
This figure will rise dramatically over the next 10 years and be a massive strain on society, plus the NHS will be under huge pressure with an aging population. This is an issue that won't go away, what is the solution? People work longer, give big incentives for people to have children to rebalance the demographics or encourage immigration?
 
Shandypants said:
Just read a stat that within two years the state pension will cost the govt per annum more than the combined budget for education, police and defence.
This figure will rise dramatically over the next 10 years and be a massive strain on society, plus the NHS will be under huge pressure with an aging population. This is an issue that won't go away, what is the solution? People work longer, give big incentives for people to have children to rebalance the demographics or encourage uimmigration?
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Increase national insurance contributions maybe. Which they did, and then reverted back again. It wasn’t a huge increase but the extra resource in the govt coffers would be a help.

Increasing retirement age has been utilised a lot recently but I think that has to stop now. Any further increase possibly wouldn’t impact me, I’ve already had mine moved 7 years upwards from the day I started work, but I don’t think it’s fair on the next generations to keep upping it further.

Enrolment into company schemes now has to be offered as compulsory, but these are still nominal amounts for the employee and from the employer, so I would look towards encouraging the masses to look at putting more into a personal scheme. Many people don’t and it’s crazy really.
 
About 15 years ago, nattering with our accountant, he was telling us about this unfunded state pension bomb. The Government have to have been aware as well.

I guess, as you have suggested, there have to be many solutions. Average life expectancy is now going down, so I don't suppose increasing pension age again will be popular, and for many, even possible. I have 2 years to go, and the thought of doing my partly physical job in a few years time is not attractive.

A decent workforce, allowing businesses to thrive instead of cut back, is essential to a decent tax base. WE know several businesses locally who cannot open the hours they want 7 days per week because they cannot get staff, housing is an issue here too.

Incentives for children, as a follower of Gaia, not a fan, there are already too many people in this world. Increase the working population by allowing working age people to settle here as above.

And so on to the elephant in the room, taxation. If you want to do business or live in the UK, you should pay a fair rate of tax. Multi nationals, energy companies tax breaks, offshore trust funds, stop them. The tax avoided by Shell and BP alone would contribute a decent percentage of the gap. Taking on companies like Amazon who are happy to do mega business, but offshore it all to low tax Eire. I read recently that Tesco CEO is Eire domiciled so doesn't pay tax in the UK?????

Bottom line, there is plenty of money, it is up to your politics whether it is fair.
 
Shandypants said:
Just read a stat that within two years the state pension will cost the govt per annum more than the combined budget for education, police and defence.
This figure will rise dramatically over the next 10 years and be a massive strain on society, plus the NHS will be under huge pressure with an aging population. This is an issue that won't go away, what is the solution? People work longer, give big incentives for people to have children to rebalance the demographics or encourage immigration?
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Maybe they should spend more on education, police and defence then.
 
Ollygon said:
Compulsory euthanasia at 70.

I'm costing the country a fortune.
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Sounds like the classic 1973 film, Soylent Green, starring Charlton Heston and Edward G Robinson. At a certain age people are terminated. They are allowed a special death. The death scene of EGR is memorable, with a film of spectacular nature and classical music, as he drifts away from the injection. Then a sinister corporation takes over and recycles the dead bodies into Soylent Green, the staple diet of the population which is marketed as a form of plankton. It is set in 2022, when the world is overpopulated, polluted, food, money and resources are in short supply and only an elite can live decently. Fact or fiction? Hmmm?

Ironically, EGR knew he was terminally ill with cancer and his 'death scene' was his last scene as an actor. He died 2 months later and none of the cast knew he was ill.
 
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ansdellmafia said:
And yet our pathetic state pension is just about the lowest in Europe . So we should maybe lower it further ?
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One of the reasons I ploughed as much as could into my occupational and private pensions as early as I could. I was encouraged to do so by my boss when in my early 20s and what good advice that was. Allowed me to retire at 60.
 
bfcpete said:
Sounds like the classic 1973 film, Soylent Green, starring Charlton Heston and Edward G Robinson. At a certain age people are terminated. They are allowed a special death. The death scene of EGR is memorable, with a film of spectacular nature and classical music, as he drifts away from the injection. Then a sinister corporation takes over and recycles the dead bodies into Soylent Green, the staple diet of the population which is marketed as a form of plankton. It is set in 2022, when the world is overpopulated, polluted, food, money and resources are in short supply and only an elite can live decently. Fact or fiction? Hmmm?

Ironically, EGR knew he was terminally ill with cancer and his 'death scene' was his last scene as an actor. He died 2 months later and none of the cast knew he was ill.
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Great film that.

I think the music was Beethovens Pastoral Symphony.

I think I'd like to go out in a hospitality box watching the Pool win the Champions League.

I'll have to hang on at least 5 more years then.
 
Thank your lucky stars the Colombian and Mexican cartels can get their money laundered through London. All adds to GDP.
 
Shandypants said:
How about deporting anyone over 65 to Rwanda?
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I hear it's very pleasant at this time of the year.

The malaria's partly under control, there hasn't been a case of dysentery for over a week, and the dengue fever season doesn't start until next month.

You're also guaranteed at least 5 hours of power each day, and the average walking distance to the nearest clean well has been reduced to just 5 miles.

The only problem is I won't get pension increases as an ex-pat; still I doubt if I'd live another year over there, so it wouldn't matter anyway.
 
Shandypants said:
Just read a stat that within two years the state pension will cost the govt per annum more than the combined budget for education, police and defence.
This figure will rise dramatically over the next 10 years and be a massive strain on society, plus the NHS will be under huge pressure with an aging population. This is an issue that won't go away, what is the solution? People work longer, give big incentives for people to have children to rebalance the demographics or encourage immigration?
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Another pandemic with no vaccine if you’re over 70
 
Maybe people should stop talking about it being stopped at some point because doing so makes it more likely to happen!
A seed is planted, the concept grows in the media and in 20 years everybody says it was inevitable it would be stopped they've been talking about that for years!!
 
gjr said:
Maybe people should stop talking about it being stopped at some point because doing so makes it more likely to happen!
A seed is planted, the concept grows in the media and in 20 years everybody says it was inevitable it would be stopped they've been talking about that for years!!
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Agree with this.
 
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Lala said:
Agree with this.
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I think it ties in with the keep calm and carry on mentality we have in this country, also goes hand in hand with us having a national psyche of their being a hierarchy that knows best.
Planting the idea and watching it grow so that it becomes normal thinking makes us more compliant.
Contrast with France and then look at how limited media coverage of their huge pension protests was over here.
We are encouraged to quietly grumble about stuff while in the background things are changed without the majority consent but you were given an illusion of genuine democracy.
NHS and pensions have both been talked about in the same way, will they still be around in 2050, if not is that what most of us wanted?
 
How about another film, Logan's Run, which depicts a dystopic malthusian future society in which both population and the consumption of resources are maintained in equilibrium by requiring the death of everyone reaching the age of 21. When people reach this Lastday they report to a Sleepshop in which they are willingly executed via a pleasure-inducing toxic gas. Nobody grows old and nobody gets ill. That would solve the problems
 
Am due my work pension on 01 Dec this year

Following the Mcloud judgement the £42k I reckon I would have lost in additional contributions later retirement age etc. Will be rectified to what I originally signed up for
They have to offer my 2 figures - one with alpha included the second reverting back to my classic until 31 March 22. I finished work 5 months later so my alpha pension is negligible however the alpha scheme allowed me to finish 15mths earlier than planned with no detriment.
I know they won't be able to work it out, however I will be able to , to the penny but I know it won't be paid on time.

Apologies if it sounds double Dutch but if you are in the same schemes then it should hopefully make sense.
 
Mcewans Mullet said:
Am due my work pension on 01 Dec this year

Following the Mcloud judgement the £42k I reckon I would have lost in additional contributions later retirement age etc. Will be rectified to what I originally signed up for
They have to offer my 2 figures - one with alpha included the second reverting back to my classic until 31 March 22. I finished work 5 months later so my alpha pension is negligible however the alpha scheme allowed me to finish 15mths earlier than planned with no detriment.
I know they won't be able to work it out, however I will be able to , to the penny but I know it won't be paid on time.

Apologies if it sounds double Dutch but if you are in the same schemes then it should hopefully make sense.
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I get it. I partially retired two years ago and the McCloud ruling means there should have been 7 more years in my classic pot than there was.
I’m due 2 revised figures now and it will impact what I have been paid if I choose to switch back to the classic for those years.
I can’t imagine they will get mine right either, but like you, I am on it 👌
 
It's a no brained for me Lala.
Full Classic for me
Due to my age I was 18m too young to retain classic until the end however I got deferred starting Alpha until Oct 18.
I'm asking for all.my additional contributions back too, I'm not paying g foe something I haven't had the benefit of.
The only + was Alpha has an anticipated retirement age of 67, so the way I went early meant I wasn't in my last 3 years so my pension was unaffected.
 
Mcewans Mullet said:
It's a no brained for me Lala.
Full Classic for me
Due to my age I was 18m too young to retain classic until the end however I got deferred starting Alpha until Oct 18.
I'm asking for all.my additional contributions back too, I'm not paying g foe something I haven't had the benefit of.
The only + was Alpha has an anticipated retirement age of 67, so the way I went early meant I wasn't in my last 3 years so my pension was unaffected.
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I was kicked out of classic in 2015 so a big difference for me too.

I’m not sure they are relenting regarding the contributions aspect, but good luck with that.
 
I'm certain they ein't but will get a bo win no fee for the case approach.
Some colleagues different union got £2600 comoensation recently so I know there's a way in 😁
 
Mcewans Mullet said:
Am due my work pension on 01 Dec this year

Following the Mcloud judgement the £42k I reckon I would have lost in additional contributions later retirement age etc. Will be rectified to what I originally signed up for
They have to offer my 2 figures - one with alpha included the second reverting back to my classic until 31 March 22. I finished work 5 months later so my alpha pension is negligible however the alpha scheme allowed me to finish 15mths earlier than planned with no detriment.
I know they won't be able to work it out, however I will be able to , to the penny but I know it won't be paid on time.

Apologies if it sounds double Dutch but if you are in the same schemes then it should hopefully make sense.
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All makes perfect sense. It's appallingly managed, and relies you doing all the work, by the way. They don't actually confirm anything but put all the onus on you.
 
Wizaard said:
All makes perfect sense. It's appallingly managed, and relies you doing all the work, by the way. They don't actually confirm anything but put all the onus on you.
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You are so right Wiz. I worked all mine out with no confirmation until right at the end. Then I got sucked into working out the ins and outs and figures for partial retirement for 6 other colleagues 😳

Another person I don’t know came to me for help last week and said ‘I believe you are the pensions person ‘ 🤦‍♀️ no I am not !
It shouldn’t be this hard for people at all.
 
Lala said:
You are so right Wiz. I worked all mine out with no confirmation until right at the end. Then I got sucked into working out the ins and outs and figures for partial retirement for 6 other colleagues 😳

Another person I don’t know came to me for help last week and said ‘I believe you are the pensions person ‘ 🤦‍♀️ no I am not !
It shouldn’t be this hard for people at all.
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Yes, that's happened to me too, having taken partial retirement. A fair few have now gone down the same path after asking me.

A few didn't realise about how you're docked money through abatement if you don't get it right. It shouldn't be left to you to do all the maths. What's the point of a pensions team if they don't advise, just apply your figures?

I'm still not 100% sure as to what will happen when I quit altogether, in terms of the Alpha I'm still accruing presumably, from my part time earnings.
 
Wizaard said:
Yes, that's happened to me too, having taken partial retirement. A fair few have now gone down the same path after asking me.

A few didn't realise about how you're docked money through abatement if you don't get it right. It shouldn't be left to you to do all the maths. What's the point of a pensions team if they don't advise, just apply your figures?

I'm still not 100% sure as to what will happen when I quit altogether, in terms of the Alpha I'm still accruing presumably, from my part time earnings.
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You are definitely still accruing from your alpha yes 👍

The abatement, the not going above your old gross with your new wage and pension figures, making sure you drop at least 20%, then they all wanted to know what they would take home and how much they will still get when they eventually retire.

Then someone even came to me with her sisters pension details who is a nurse and could I look at when she could partially retire and what she would get 😳 can you believe that ! Not even the same employment or scheme 🤣

I went into hiding for a few months, my brain was frazzled 🥹
 
Lala said:
You are definitely still accruing from your alpha yes 👍

The abatement, the not going above your old gross with your new wage and pension figures, making sure you drop at least 20%, then they all wanted to know what they would take home and how much they will still get when they eventually retire.

Then someone even came to me with her sisters pension details who is a nurse and could I look at when she could partially retire and what she would get 😳 can you believe that ! Not even the same employment or scheme 🤣

I went into hiding for a few months, my brain was frazzled 🥹
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The employer really should be answering all these questions, and it's out of order that they don't, instead leaving it to us 🤣
 
Wizaard said:
The employer really should be answering all these questions, and it's out of order that they don't, instead leaving it to us 🤣
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I know, I had visions of getting sued for getting someone‘s figures wrong and it would be too late for them to back out 🥹🤣🤣
 
It grips my 💩
I waited 5 mths for them to finish me and give me my pension figures, in which time 01 April 22 came and went and with that expectation of working to 67 I got them to dismiss me rather than me go straight to pension.
Its been like a second gratuity.
That said they worked out that figure and offered me 40% of what it should have been, no apology from CSP but the tax man walloped me. Have had to wait 9mths and a self assessment to get back my overpayment to them, and that was only after finally having to submit a complaint as the self assessment helplines shut until Sept!! No apology from them either.
I had 32 years of working to deadlines, targets etc. and yet no other departments seem to have the same pressures in hitting deadlines that I had to.
I've paud in to that for 32yrs, I only want what I'm due and when I'm due it, nothing else.
 
Wizaard said:
The employer really should be answering all these questions, and it's out of order that they don't, instead leaving it to us 🤣
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Imagine being a manual worker in a formally state owned company, we haven't got a clue how to work this stuff out, we'll I haven't and I have to soon. I'm sure my grandparents didn't have these issues, this isn't progress for most people but maybe for a few!!!
 
Don’t worry the number of fast food outlets and takeaways serving unhealthy food is leading to a country full of fatties.
They will be lucky to reach pension age.
This is a serious concern for the younger generations who many take little exercise.
 
gjr said:
Imagine being a manual worker in a formally state owned company, we haven't got a clue how to work this stuff out, we'll I haven't and I have to soon. I'm sure my grandparents didn't have these issues, this isn't progress for most people but maybe for a few!!!
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Places like the post office and the civil service should have an in-house pension person who you can book an appointment with like a financial advisor to discuss your pension and figures.

Infact any large company should. It’s simply not fair expecting folk to work it all out and have all that knowledge themselves. It goes way way over some people‘s heads. And it’s such an important thing to get right.
 
A good friend of mine was a qualified actuary. I remember in the 1980s he enthusiastically took me through the "ticking timebomb" of pensions and retirement ages.

It was well known then that these problems were inevitable, but that the solutions were potentially so radical that politicians would keep putting them off, and let someone down the line deal with them.

We've also seen it with care for the elderly. How many times have Governments considered reports on this, and then done nothing? One of the few good things Johnson did was to meet this head on, and introduce NI increases to partly fund the problem. However, at the first sign of difficulties, the Government U-turned.

My actuary friend reassured me that I'd be fine with my pension arrangements - and thankfully he was right, but sadly he died before he could enjoy his pension!
 
Lala said:
You are definitely still accruing from your alpha yes 👍

The abatement, the not going above your old gross with your new wage and pension figures, making sure you drop at least 20%, then they all wanted to know what they would take home and how much they will still get when they eventually retire.

Then someone even came to me with her sisters pension details who is a nurse and could I look at when she could partially retire and what she would get 😳 can you believe that ! Not even the same employment or scheme 🤣

I went into hiding for a few months, my brain was frazzled 🥹
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LaLa - are you covered with Financial Services accreditation? !
 
I'm taking pension from nhs and going down to 30 hours a week at the end of October ( just started 3 month notice.) That will mean dropping one day a week but no more shifts ,nights etc .

Pension will cover basics with pay making me comfortable( McLoud correction pending.- will be taking on more training role so less stressful. Can still pay into current nhs pendion

I'm 56 so reckon in new job can do another 4 years at 4 days a week.

Apologies for rambling but my point was I think there will be varied routes to retirement in the future and we may work longer but less hours and combine pendions/savings with part time ,less demanding work.
I think the idea of working for 30 or 40 years then just stopping is a thing of the past .

As for the state pension - will eventually go - the triple lock will go first but politicians know it will be a risky move
 
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