Positives

JJpool

JJpool

Well-known member
As annoying as 1 or 2 parts of that game were last night and need improving upon fast...

That comeback was great, Fleetwood or not, wrong starting line up or not, the way we came out 2nd half was like a side possessed. We also gave it a bloody good go against Peterborough with only 10 men and had them on the ropes.

When we are behind it's a good trait to have to be able to get back into games. The lads have a great spirit.

Carey has come in for a bit of criticism recently but he wasn't messing about with his shots 2nd half and that 2nd goal was an absolute belter, like a missile. 3 goals in the last 2 games now. Need to see more of this Carey.

Ok he gave the pass away for the goal but there was a long way to go before they were near the goal and the defenders didn't get close too.

Lavery is looking sharp again and he took his goal really well.

Dembele looks class every time he plays.

Surely now the penny has dropped for the manager and players, of what levels of performance are needed and will it be a turning point, has something just clicked?

When we play at that sort of intensity not many sides in this league can live with us.

Tbh we played well in quite a few aspects last night, it's just putting it all together now and cutting out silly mistakes.
 
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JJpool said:
As annoying as 1 or 2 parts of that game were last night and need improving upon fast...

That comeback was great, Fleetwood or not, wrong starting line up or not, the way we came out 2nd half was like a side possessed. We also gave it a bloody good go against Peterborough with only 10 men and had them on the ropes.

When we are behind it's a good trait to have to be able to get back into games. The lads have a great spirit.

Carey has come in for a bit of criticism recently but he wasn't messing about with his shots 2nd half and that 2nd goal was an absolute belter, like a missile. 3 goals in the last 2 games now. Need to see more of this Carey.

Ok he gave the pass away for the goal but there was a long way to go before they were near the goal and the defenders didn't get close too.

Lavery is looking sharp again and he took his goal really well.

Dembele looks class every time he plays.

Surely now the penny has dropped for the manager and players, of what levels of performance are needed and will it be a turning point, has something just clicked?

When we play at that sort intensity not many sides in this league can live with us.

Tbh we played well in quite a few aspects last night, it's just putting it all together now and cutting out silly mistakes.
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I've wondered if Critchleys plan with the lacklustre slow sideways & backwards stuff is some misguided attempt to tire/bore the opposition & lull them into a false sense of security, then hit them hard. But if that's the case we can't be giving teams a few goals head start.
 
Sooty59 said:
I've wondered if Critchleys plan with the lacklustre slow sideways & backwards stuff is some misguided attempt to tire/bore the opposition & lull them into a false sense of security, then hit them hard. But if that's the case we can't be giving teams a few goals head start.
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Obviously the whole game can't be at 100mph, so when we're having a breather and taking the sting out, that's when possession is key. It's also key to open teams up. If they don't have it they can't hurt us and are tiring chasing us.

But teams, players and even managers learn from mistakes. We've made a few and hopefully learn from them.

There was a game in league 1 last time, can't remember who it was, but they pressed us at home and we seemed to go... oh... we'll just press like that too then and from then on we were generally vastly improved.

I'm wondering, hoping, if that 2nd half was a bit of a moment like that. But we didn't learn from the opposition this time, but from ourselves.

Critchley had to go for it, in a local derby to be behind like we were to Fleetwood was unacceptable and the fan pressure and necessity forced us to come out like a team possessed.

Maybe we needed that after going through the motions at times in some games. The more times we show that, when they just believe and go for it, like Oxford 2nd half, Peterborough with 10 men, last night, the more it'll sink in?

Dembele is a big part of it, the more he plays the more obvious it's becoming that he must be heavily involved and the harder it is after the fan pressure last night for the manager to justify leaving him out.
 
The first 20 minutes of the second half we were absolutely superb, and I genuinely believe that no team in this league would live with us when playing like that. It was aggressive, positive, incisive. The movement was great, the decision making was spot on. 30 shots on goal. We deserved to win, even with the poor first half.

Carey is a very capable player when allowed to play in a part of the pitch that he can actually do damage in. Their third goal was in no way his fault - he tried a forward pass (which btw everyone's been calling for him to do!), and it didn't come off. When they got the ball, they were in their own half and it's reasonable to expect the defence to stop them. But it was an inch away from getting us to a likely 4-2 win. Fine margins. I'd sooner he tried that and lost it than turned and passed it back, because often that will come off and it'll be a comfortable win. Some may say that we should just be keeping the ball, but I find it hard to criticise him for trying to kill the game off.

Lavery is showing signs of getting back to his best, and he's a real asset when he is.

Rhodes is class. He didn't have the best game, but still managed to affect it. That control and pass for Lavery's goal was quality.

We showed a lot of fight. We shouldn't have been 2-0 down, but we have a lot of players who have the right attitude. The last two games have shown that there's no heads dropping. They care. They've reminded me a bit of that game away to Wimbledon under Critchley v1, when we went down to 9 men but still somehow managed to dominate and create enough chances to win. It was the start of our great run that season, hopefully this was another of those occasions.

We picked up a result without Norburn, Casey, Lyons, Gabriel, Joseph. You'd expect all of those players would be considered first teamers if fully fit and focused.

A word on Oakley Boothe - in the summer we declined to pay for Moxon, and signed OB instead because he's free. I'm not saying NC should be picking him, and I'm not saying we haven't spent any money. But the fact is that the difference between the top two teams and the also rans are decisions like that.
 
BFC_53 said:
The first 20 minutes of the second half we were absolutely superb, and I genuinely believe that no team in this league would live with us when playing like that. It was aggressive, positive, incisive. The movement was great, the decision making was spot on. 30 shots on goal. We deserved to win, even with the poor first half.

Carey is a very capable player when allowed to play in a part of the pitch that he can actually do damage in. Their third goal was in no way his fault - he tried a forward pass (which btw everyone's been calling for him to do!), and it didn't come off. When they got the ball, they were in their own half and it's reasonable to expect the defence to stop them. But it was an inch away from getting us to a likely 4-2 win. Fine margins. I'd sooner he tried that and lost it than turned and passed it back, because often that will come off and it'll be a comfortable win. Some may say that we should just be keeping the ball, but I find it hard to criticise him for trying to kill the game off.

Lavery is showing signs of getting back to his best, and he's a real asset when he is.

Rhodes is class. He didn't have the best game, but still managed to affect it. That control and pass for Lavery's goal was quality.

We showed a lot of fight. We shouldn't have been 2-0 down, but we have a lot of players who have the right attitude. The last two games have shown that there's no heads dropping. They care. They've reminded me a bit of that game away to Wimbledon under Critchley v1, when we went down to 9 men but still somehow managed to dominate and create enough chances to win. It was the start of our great run that season, hopefully this was another of those occasions.

We picked up a result without Norburn, Casey, Lyons, Gabriel, Joseph. You'd expect all of those players would be considered first teamers if fully fit and focused.

A word on Oakley Boothe - in the summer we declined to pay for Moxon, and signed OB instead because he's free. I'm not saying NC should be picking him, and I'm not saying we haven't spent any money. But the fact is that the difference between the top two teams and the also rans are decisions like that.
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Carlisle chose not to sell Moxon iirc.

I'm feeling positive after watching the game back today. As JJ says, the fight backs in the last two games show what we are capable of. Dembele is looking way above L1 level.

We need to sort the back 3/ wing back thing out. It's not working. Tighten that up and get Dembele on the pitch more and we should climb. For me, we either put full backs behind the wingers, or change the wing backs. Teams are exploiting it. As well as the inexperience of Casey and the lack of confidence of Marv.
 
We need Norburn back or someone as his replacement when injured as none of the others who have come in have done the dirty party of the DM role well protect your defence.
I'm surprised Connolly hasn't had a shot but his ball playing ain't all that.
 
All about quality. The team that ended had far more quality than the team that started. How Critchley hasn't seen this, I will never know.
 
We've played some great attacking football in the last few games. Mainly when Dembele has been on the pitch. If we sort out the defensive structure we stop leaking goals and we will be as good as anyone above us, if not better.
 
voyeur said:
We've played some great attacking football in the last few games. Mainly when Dembele has been on the pitch. If we sort out the defensive structure we stop leaking goals and we will be as good as anyone above us, if not better.
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Easy to sort out defensive structure
4 at the back Eki plays
3 at the back keep him off the pitch
Grimmy needs to be challenged as well.
I know I am over simplifying but both these actions will reduce the soft goals we concede
 
tangysider said:
Easy to sort out defensive structure
4 at the back Eki plays
3 at the back keep him off the pitch
Grimmy needs to be challenged as well.
I know I am over simplifying but both these actions will reduce the soft goals we concede
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We've conceded loads with three at the back with Eki off the pitch.
 
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voyeur said:
We've conceded loads with three at the back with Eki off the pitch.
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It’s a small sample size, but interestingly we’ve not conceded when Lyons has been playing as wing back (not scored either mind !!). We’ve arguably been more solid with the much maligned Connolly in that position too.

That possibly shouldn’t come as a great surprise, but it is something to bear in mind.

Moving forward for example, we would have the option to solidify the set up… by bringing JG on as the RWB and switching CJ to the left or Lyons on and leaving CJ on the right… or both JG and Lyons
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
...

It’s a small sample size, but interestingly we’ve not conceded when Lyons has been playing as wing back (not scored either mind !!). We’ve arguably been more solid with the much maligned Connolly in that position too.

That possibly shouldn’t come as a great surprise, but it is something to bear in mind.

Moving forward for example, we would have the option to solidify the set up… by bringing JG on as the RWB and switching CJ to the left or Lyons on and leaving CJ on the right… or both JG and Lyons
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Hubby is a possibility on the left. Or Thompson with Hubby at LCB. Lyons or Gabriel on the right. Also need to settle on who plays in the middle of the back three. Feels like a cornerstone position.
 
tangysider said:
The Carey pass that did not work out was a knats whisker from being a killer pass.
Carey at least tries to look at the difficult option rather than the safe back pass all the time. He will come good 3 goals and a further 2 hit the woodwork is a decent return from an attacking midfielder
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everytime he plays well he's playing a slightly freeer role and more advanced and slightly more central
 
voyeur said:
Hubby is a possibility on the left. Or Thompson with Hubby at LCB. Lyons or Gabriel on the right. Also need to settle on who plays in the middle of the back three. Feels like a cornerstone position.
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I think Lyons has played LWB / LB for his previous club as well as fir us earlier in the season. Thompson remains a liability for me…

I’m not sure about the CD as both Casey and Ekpiteta have different strengths and weaknesses. As I’ve said on another thread, I’d possibly look to bring an experienced loan in if we couldn’t get the quality in by other means.

If I had to choose from the two I’d probably favour Casey and hope he can improve certain aspects of his game… I’m not convinced Marv has the ability to play a part in any team looking to build from the back, which is a) a real shame and b) a bit of a lightbulb moment really as I think it almost renders him surplus to requirements moving forward.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I think Lyons has played LWB / LB for his previous club as well as fir us earlier in the season. Thompson remains a liability for me…

I’m not sure about the CD as both Casey and Ekpiteta have different strengths and weaknesses. As I’ve said on another thread, I’d possibly look to bring an experienced loan in if we couldn’t get the quality in by other means.

If I had to choose from the two I’d probably favour Casey and hope he can improve certain aspects of his game… I’m not convinced Marv has the ability to play a part in any team looking to build from the back, which is a) a real shame and b) a bit of a lightbulb moment really as I think it almost renders him surplus to requirements moving forward.
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Seems off to now be discarding our player of the season from the good Championship season. Missed the second half of last season. Needs his confidence back.

The Thompson is a liability thing is OTT, in my opinion. I'd want Hubby behind him in the three but he's had some good games. Things are exaggerated so often. A player is brilliant, or a player is dogshit or something. CJ and Dale can't defend at all. Connolly can't attack. Thommo is a compromise, decent at both but not perfect at either. Better crosser of a ball than CJ and maybe Dale. Neither of those are getting decent balls into the box. Thommo set up Laverys goal with a great cross last Saturday.

Lyons can play left or right but he's probably better on the right and we need him there, Gabriel made of glass.

I suggested an experienced CB on SATs thread and he suggested it was impossible to recruit one. But we have recruited such players umpteen times.
 
voyeur said:
Seems off to now be discarding our player of the season from the good Championship season. Missed the second half of last season. Needs his confidence back.

The Thompson is a liability thing is OTT, in my opinion. I'd want Hubby behind him in the three but he's had some good games. Things are exaggerated so often. A player is brilliant, or a player is dogshit or something. CJ and Dale can't defend at all. Connolly can't attack. Thommo is a compromise, decent at both but not perfect at either. Better crosser of a ball than CJ and maybe Dale. Neither of those are getting decent balls into the box. Thommo set up Laverys goal with a great cross last Saturday.

Lyons can play left or right but he's probably better on the right and we need him there, Gabriel made of glass.

I suggested an experienced CB on SATs thread and he suggested it was impossible to recruit one. But we have recruited such players umpteen times.
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Yep, it does seem off, but when you reflect on the situation and look at historic performances along with more recent ones, I think it's become apparent that he's a foot through the ball man. and for all his other defensive qualities, which are top notch IMO, he's missing a vital ingredient. For me, the ability of out CD to be competent in possession, to be able to quickly pass the ball and if need be bring it forward is an pre-requisite for the style of football we are aiming to play... And I'd go further and suggest that it is the lack of that key component, which has held us back previously and forced us to change our approach.

I was really taking previously about the options available to try and shore us up defensively. We might want to employ a Thompson or a Dale in the WB position when we are looking to be more attack minded and I have no problem with that. However we might also want to look more solid too...It might be that we are playing different opposition or that we are winning and wanted to make a substitution to protect a lead... In those circumstances I think that Gabriel on the right and Lyons on the Left are the more solid options...Lyons has also scored a few by cutting in and I think that 'inverted' option adds an important dimension to this formation.... You could also maybe shift Hubby out Left and put Connolly as the other CH.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Yep, it does seem off, but when you reflect on the situation and look at historic performances along with more recent ones, I think it's become apparent that he's a foot through the ball man. and for all his other defensive qualities, which are top notch IMO, he's missing a vital ingredient. For me, the ability of out CD to be competent in possession, to be able to quickly pass the ball and if need be bring it forward is an pre-requisite for the style of football we are aiming to play... And I'd go further and suggest that it is the lack of that key component, which has held us back previously and forced us to change our approach.

I was really taking previously about the options available to try and shore us up defensively. We might want to employ a Thompson or a Dale in the WB position when we are looking to be more attack minded and I have no problem with that. However we might also want to look more solid too...It might be that we are playing different opposition or that we are winning and wanted to make a substitution to protect a lead... In those circumstances I think that Gabriel on the right and Lyons on the Left are the more solid options...Lyons has also scored a few by cutting in and I think that 'inverted' option adds an important dimension to this formation.... You could also maybe shift Hubby out Left and put Connolly as the other CH.
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Lyons still has to prove himself, for me, but needs and deserves a run of games. Gabriel is hypothetical, he's hardly ever fit.

I understand the issue with Marv, but I'm not ready to say he's surplus by any stretch. I wouldn't back against him getting back to being a first pick and helping us to promotion again. The new system doesn't suit him so well, but the system is making life difficult for all our defenders. Hubby got pulled about by Fleetwood first half, betwixt and between, several times.
 
voyeur said:
Lyons still has to prove himself, for me, but needs and deserves a run of games. Gabriel is hypothetical, he's hardly ever fit.

I understand the issue with Marv, but I'm not ready to say he's surplus by any stretch. I wouldn't back against him getting back to being a first pick and helping us to promotion again. The new system doesn't suit him so well, but the system is making life difficult for all our defenders. Hubby got pulled about by Fleetwood first half, betwixt and between, several times.
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Of course it's hypothetical in both cases...

However.. every time Lyons has played at LWB this season we have kept a clean sheet and Gabriel is going to be available for selection soon.

Marv has a lot of work to do if he's going to turn this around.... I've never seen a player look quite so awkward on the ball.
 
I think Marv unless filing in can only play in a 4 with a ball player next to him so he doesn't have to do it.
Marv did an absolutely great recovery tackle against Fleetwood it was fantastic defending, the only problem was that it was his dawdling and poor control etc that gave them the good chance in the first place.
That sums Marv up really.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Of course it's hypothetical in both cases...

However.. every time Lyons has played at LWB this season we have kept a clean sheet and Gabriel is going to be available for selection soon.

Marv has a lot of work to do if he's going to turn this around.... I've never seen a player look quite so awkward on the ball.
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But he's been out player of the season in the Championship. It wasn't a fluke.
 
Good O/P @JJpool . After Wednesday, I’m still not worried about our campaign.

It felt like we should have won, but say if Norburn was fit, there’s no way we’re drawing that game. The second and third goals wouldn’t have happened under his watch.

I’d like to see Lyons get a decent run in the team. He can offer us so much. The midfield needs Carey or Dembele not both unless we are seriously chasing a game.
 
voyeur said:
But he's been out player of the season in the Championship. It wasn't a fluke.
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Well it was actually a bit of a fluke I'd say....

It was almost a case of the stars aligning IMHO...

Firstly, we decided to drop any idea about playing possession football and largely reverted to a 442
Secondly, it coincided with a great season for Gaz Goals which allowed Marv to simply hoof it to Gaz
Thirdly, he was had Keogh to literally baby-sit him through the entire season

As I have said, I think his heading, tackling, recovery and pace are all at Upper Championship and possibly even Lower Premier League level, but his ball skills are Non-League.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Well it was actually a bit of a fluke I'd say....

It was almost a case of the stars aligning IMHO...

Firstly, we decided to drop any idea about playing possession football and largely reverted to a 442
Secondly, it coincided with a great season for Gaz Goals which allowed Marv to simply hoof it to Gaz
Thirdly, he was had Keogh to literally baby-sit him through the entire season

As I have said, I think his heading, tackling, recovery and pace are all at Upper Championship and possibly even Lower Premier League level, but his ball skills are Non-League.
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Incredibly disingenuous that x3.

Ridiculous. He had two great seasons for us. Then Appleton landed.
 
voyeur said:
Incredibly disingenuous that x3.

Ridiculous. He had two great seasons for us. Then Appleton landed.
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Perhaps... Perhaps.. The Baby Sit comment is probably harsh... I don't think you can over-emphasise the positive impact that an experienced head did have on Marvin's game though and of course, Keogh was competent on the ball.

But I really don't think you can ignore the circumstances.... Let's not forget that under Critchley's previous tenure, we struggled to play possession based football and build from the back..... Coincidence? I don't think so

The moment Appleton tried to employ a similar tactic... Big Marv struggles ... Coincidence? I don't think so

I just think that that particular style places so much influence on the ability of the CD to play the ball, that it exposes that one flaw in ME's game to the cost of his all of his other fantastic attributes.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Of course it's hypothetical in both cases...

However.. every time Lyons has played at LWB this season we have kept a clean sheet and Gabriel is going to be available for selection soon.

Marv has a lot of work to do if he's going to turn this around.... I've never seen a player look quite so awkward on the ball.
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Marv 'can' be good defensively, although not always, but his ability to pass it is a real problem in today's game and for the type of football most want to play.

Like Thompson, but worse, always has a huge mistake from no real pressure in him.

For the way we want to play he doesn't really fit, unless we're going long to Kouassi or unless he's just able to play it simple, but even that escapes him at times.

Casey is far better on the ball, growing in stature and improving all the time. If he had Marvs experience and telescopic legs, he'd be playing far higher.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Perhaps... Perhaps.. The Baby Sit comment is probably harsh... I don't think you can over-emphasise the positive impact that an experienced head did have on Marvin's game though and of course, Keogh was competent on the ball.

But I really don't think you can ignore the circumstances.... Let's not forget that under Critchley's previous tenure, we struggled to play possession based football and build from the back..... Coincidence? I don't think so

The moment Appleton tried to employ a similar tactic... Big Marv struggles ... Coincidence? I don't think so

I just think that that particular style places so much influence on the ability of the CD to play the ball, that it exposes that one flaw in ME's game to the cost of his all of his other fantastic attributes.
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Marv has a weakness, but he has greater strengths than a lot of our other players. He not playing close to his best level, and that's the issue for me. He needs to recover confidence and form.
 
JJpool said:
As annoying as 1 or 2 parts of that game were last night and need improving upon fast...

That comeback was great, Fleetwood or not, wrong starting line up or not, the way we came out 2nd half was like a side possessed. We also gave it a bloody good go against Peterborough with only 10 men and had them on the ropes.

When we are behind it's a good trait to have to be able to get back into games. The lads have a great spirit.

Carey has come in for a bit of criticism recently but he wasn't messing about with his shots 2nd half and that 2nd goal was an absolute belter, like a missile. 3 goals in the last 2 games now. Need to see more of this Carey.

Ok he gave the pass away for the goal but there was a long way to go before they were near the goal and the defenders didn't get close too.

Lavery is looking sharp again and he took his goal really well.

Dembele looks class every time he plays.

Surely now the penny has dropped for the manager and players, of what levels of performance are needed and will it be a turning point, has something just clicked?

When we play at that sort of intensity not many sides in this league can live with us.

Tbh we played well in quite a few aspects last night, it's just putting it all together now and cutting out silly mistakes.
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Good post that. I'm more frustrated that we don't play to our potential more often than I am concerned that we're fundamentally shit. We're weirdly good and bad at the same time.

The comeback should surely solidify in everyone's minds how we should play more often. It should give the players a lot of belief that they CAN blow teams away.

I dunno, it's like riding a bike. When you're getting going, you keep falling off. Then you ride for say 100 yards and you fall off. The fact you fell off doesn't mean the 100 yards weren't massive progress.

I think there's more to enjoy in the way we play than 6 weeks ago by a long way. I just hope Critch doesn't take from the last few games "defend better and be more solid" as the learning point that he focuses on above anything else.
 
JJpool said:
Marv 'can' be good defensively, although not always, but his ability to pass it is a real problem in today's game and for the type of football most want to play.

Like Thompson, but worse, always has a huge mistake from no real pressure in him.

For the way we want to play he doesn't really fit, unless we're going long to Kouassi or unless he's just able to play it simple, but even that escapes him at times.

Casey is far better on the ball, growing in stature and improving all the time. If he had Marvs experience and telescopic legs, he'd be playing far higher.
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Yep... And that's another problem... As soon as we introduce Kouassi into the equation, it allows Marv to default to what he is comfortable with and we just start hoofing the hopeful ball... And ironically Kylian for a big lad is a much better player with the ball played into his feet from what I've seen so far.
 
td53 said:
Good post that. I'm more frustrated that we don't play to our potential more often than I am concerned that we're fundamentally shit. We're weirdly good and bad at the same time.

The comeback should surely solidify in everyone's minds how we should play more often. It should give the players a lot of belief that they CAN blow teams away.

I dunno, it's like riding a bike. When you're getting going, you keep falling off. Then you ride for say 100 yards and you fall off. The fact you fell off doesn't mean the 100 yards weren't massive progress.

I think there's more to enjoy in the way we play than 6 weeks ago by a long way. I just hope Critch doesn't take from the last few games "defend better and be more solid" as the learning point that he focuses on above anything else.
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I hope he DOES focus on defending better. But not at the expense of progressing our attacking play, which has developed a lot since early season.
 
voyeur said:
Marv has a weakness, but he has greater strengths than a lot of our other players. He not playing close to his best level, and that's the issue for me. He needs to recover confidence and form.
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I’m not disputing his ability Voy and that’s why this situation is so frustrating and why I really referred to it as a bit of a lightbulb moment for me.

I’d liken it to suddenly finding out that the partner you’ve been living with for the last 10 years and who you love dearly is actually your half sister from another marriage..!!

Despite everything else, that one issue, means you just have to let go.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I’m not disputing his ability Voy and that’s why this situation is so frustrating and why I really referred to it as a bit of a lightbulb moment for me.

I’d liken it to suddenly finding out that the partner you’ve been living with for the last 10 years and who you love dearly is actually your half sister from another marriage..!!

Despite everything else, that one issue, means you just have to let go.
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Except that it's a terrible analogy. 😆
 
Graves said:
Good O/P @JJpool . After Wednesday, I’m still not worried about our campaign.

It felt like we should have won, but say if Norburn was fit, there’s no way we’re drawing that game. The second and third goals wouldn’t have happened under his watch.

I’d like to see Lyons get a decent run in the team. He can offer us so much. The midfield needs Carey or Dembele not both unless we are seriously chasing a game.
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Dembele created the spaces to allow Carey to exploit.
Some games 2 defensive midfielders but others we need 2 attacking midfielders, so we can win easily and improve our goal difference.
 
voyeur said:
Except that it's a terrible analogy. 😆
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It's certainly a bad analogy if you come from Burnley... 😂

Seriously though, I do think if we are set on this type of football, then I think we might be better getting a fee for Marv (assuming he's got some time left under contract), because I'm sure he'd be fantastic in a side that favoured the clear your lines, longer ball approach and obviously has a value.

That way we can bring in the right kind of player that suits the way we really want to play going forward. For me at least, that seems like a more pragmatic way to look at it than the idea of assigning him to the scrapheap or keeping him as back up. The alternative is that we are compromising on what we really need don't you think?
 
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BFC_BFC_BFC said:
It's certainly a bad analogy if you come from Burnley... 😂

Seriously though, I do think if we are set on this type of football, then I think we might be better getting a fee for Marv (assuming he's got some time left under contract), because I'm sure he'd be fantastic in a side that favoured the clear your lines, longer ball approach and obviously has a value.

That way we can bring in the right kind of player that suits the way we really want to play going forward. For me at least, that seems like a more pragmatic way to look at it than the idea of assigning him to the scrapheap or keeping him as back up. The alternative is that we are compromising on what we really need don't you think?
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I don't know. I'm open minded. I think Critch likes Marv and he knows him inside out. And where's he's at right now. I doubt we'd get a big fee at the moment cos he hasn't played much in 2023 and his contract can't have too long to run. I'm going to treat it as Critchs problem I think!

I'm actually quite encouraged by recent performances, unlike a lot of people. We've done both the shutting out of teams, and the quick attacking with goals this season. Just not at the same time! It'll come together. It's just a couple of issues of selection and player fitness and positional tweaking, I think.
 
voyeur said:
I don't know. I'm open minded. I think Critch likes Marv and he knows him inside out. And where's he's at right now. I doubt we'd get a big fee at the moment cos he hasn't played much in 2023 and his contract can't have too long to run. I'm going to treat it as Critchs problem I think!

I'm actually quite encouraged by recent performances, unlike a lot of people. We've done both the shutting out of teams, and the quick attacking with goals this season. Just not at the same time! It'll come together. It's just a couple of issues of selection and player fitness and positional tweaking, I think.
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Agree it's a Critch problem... (I suppose I'm saying from my perspective, I was attached to him as a player and wanted to see him stay.... I've probably reached that point of acceptance... 'if it happens it happens' as it were).

I also agree that recent performances are encouraging and I think that this 'cup game' might have come at a good time for us. An opportunity to get some extra work in with the first team on the training ground and the classroom and work through our shortcomings, make some tweaks and come out firing in the run up to Christmas 👍
 
td53 said:
Good post that. I'm more frustrated that we don't play to our potential more often than I am concerned that we're fundamentally shit. We're weirdly good and bad at the same time.

The comeback should surely solidify in everyone's minds how we should play more often. It should give the players a lot of belief that they CAN blow teams away.

I dunno, it's like riding a bike. When you're getting going, you keep falling off. Then you ride for say 100 yards and you fall off. The fact you fell off doesn't mean the 100 yards weren't massive progress.

I think there's more to enjoy in the way we play than 6 weeks ago by a long way. I just hope Critch doesn't take from the last few games "defend better and be more solid" as the learning point that he focuses on above anything else.
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The thing is, if we had sat back after going 3-2 up and not left ourselves exposed we'd probably win. If the plan is to tighten up the game then the tactics must reflect that.

It is about finding that balance, but the time to start playing shouldn't be once we go behind.

If we got into leads by playing similar football to the other night 2nd half, then defended to see games out, we'd see out the majority.

If we kept going and tried to score more, we'd probably still win most from winning positions, provided the subs suit whatever we're doing.

It's about mentality for me. When we're at it not many can live with us, so time to believe and go for it from the off. Then you can decide how best to close out a game. We can't keep chasing games then start playing.
 
tangysider said:
Dembele created the spaces to allow Carey to exploit.
Some games 2 defensive midfielders but others we need 2 attacking midfielders, so we can win easily and improve our goal difference.
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I suppose that was a positive that Dembele and Carey seemed to complement each other. But neither should be relied on for any defensive work so I worry that we’re exposed behind with both thriving in the final third.

I wonder why Connolly didn’t start alongside Dougall instead of Oakley-Boothe? CC has dipped a bit recently but used to do well in that role and is a defensive minded player.

Back to Oakley Boothe- I think that’s his last start for me as something wasn’t right with his attitude.
 
JJpool said:
As annoying as 1 or 2 parts of that game were last night and need improving upon fast...

That comeback was great, Fleetwood or not, wrong starting line up or not, the way we came out 2nd half was like a side possessed. We also gave it a bloody good go against Peterborough with only 10 men and had them on the ropes.

When we are behind it's a good trait to have to be able to get back into games. The lads have a great spirit.

Carey has come in for a bit of criticism recently but he wasn't messing about with his shots 2nd half and that 2nd goal was an absolute belter, like a missile. 3 goals in the last 2 games now. Need to see more of this Carey.

Ok he gave the pass away for the goal but there was a long way to go before they were near the goal and the defenders didn't get close too.

Lavery is looking sharp again and he took his goal really well.

Dembele looks class every time he plays.

Surely now the penny has dropped for the manager and players, of what levels of performance are needed and will it be a turning point, has something just clicked?

When we play at that sort of intensity not many sides in this league can live with us.

Tbh we played well in quite a few aspects last night, it's just putting it all together now and cutting out silly mistakes.
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I agree with pretty much all of this. I'd also add that I think that second half performance was the best half we have played this season. We were relentless and absolutely battered them for almost all of the half...
 
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