Prime minister’s GT

Very good performance by Rishi in PMQ, particularly enjoyed his response to the SNP MP who was banging on about Independence that put him right back in his box!
 
I think the question about officials flagging up Braverman as a security threat which was not Denied by Sunak will come back to bite him on the arse. What you have to remember with Starmer is there is always a reason for asking a particular question to get someone on the record. This trick was trick was used over and over again with Johnson.
 
Very smooth performance.
The House Speaker really needs to pin members down to answering the questions more though. Way too easy to skip a question by running off on some pre-prepared riff.
Labour clearly think they know something about Braverman’s appointment and previous security leaks.
 
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I think Sunak was always going to come out guns ablaze today with everything rehearsed.

But like all top Barrister's - Starmer will pull him apart over the forthcoming weeks, that is if the Tory Party don't do it for him.

There was already a public barney this morning involving Rees Mogg and another "fellow" Tory back bencher.
 
Interesting to see Tories turning against Sunak already. Jake Berry, last weeks Tory Party Chairman, sticking the boot in regarding Sunak’s recent boast about how he was able to funnel vital funds away from deprived areas.
 
Did his best Boris impression but his attempts at bluster left me thinking he was about to jump out of his shoes. He makes Keith look tough.
 
He can't just blame previous incumbents for the way things are. It's his Party and he's been a key part of that. Like everything though, they never take responsibility for anything.
 
Wizaard said:
He can't just blame previous incumbents for the way things are. It's his Party and he's been a key part of that. Like everything though, they never take responsibility for anything.
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More complicit than key part.

Funny how Tories can remember what Labour did in 1978 but cannot remember any of the failed policies they pushed through in the last 12 months.
 
Well bugger me, the LWNJs told us everything that happened under Boris Johnson's government was his responsibility. Now we're being told that some of these things were actually down to Rishi.
 
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I thought he did well but didn't really land anything on Starmer and vice / versa.
But I can see another public falling out looming over immigration with Suella Bravaman. Sunak is likely to want to relax controls (like Truss did) - this is the real reason that Bravaman resigned from the Truss government last week. You'd think that Sunak could also do a trade deal with India pretty easily if Bravaman wasn't in position (reportedly the Indians said to Truss they don't like the things that Bravaman has said about immigration and wouldn't do business with her in post). And besides she is nuts and likely to try to stoke culture wars which I am sure Sunak wouldn't want. I think that will be the first big rift - anyone would think she was in post only so Sunak could secure a block of votes in the leadership contest or something!
 
Macseasider said:
I think Sunak was always going to come out guns ablaze today with everything rehearsed.

But like all top Barrister's - Starmer will pull him apart over the forthcoming weeks, that is if the Tory Party don't do it for him.

There was already a public barney this morning involving Rees Mogg and another "fellow" Tory back bencher.
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I seriously doubt that Starmer will pull him apart, Sunaks biggest problems are going to be internal.
 
So not answering any question properly, and attacking the previous Labour leader was a good performance? Behave

The Braverman appointment is going to keep coming back weekly. A Home Secretary who cannot be trusted with documents will be under briefed by MI5 and GCHQ. Same as Boris and MI6 when he was Foreign Secretary. A Home Secretary sacked a week ago for insecure communications to unauthorised personnel.

The same failed politicians sitting round the Cabinet table, how many sacked for Code breaches, personal peccadilloes, supporting policies now 180 degrees from the Sunak government? Like Fracking, Tax raises, tax cuts, levelling up, levelling down.

Here's to the new Boss, same as the Old Boss
 
Tangerinemoss said:
So not answering any question properly, and attacking the previous Labour leader was a good performance? Behave

The Braverman appointment is going to keep coming back weekly. A Home Secretary who cannot be trusted with documents will be under briefed by MI5 and GCHQ. Same as Boris and MI6 when he was Foreign Secretary. A Home Secretary sacked a week ago for insecure communications to unauthorised personnel.

The same failed politicians sitting round the Cabinet table, how many sacked for Code breaches, personal peccadilloes, supporting policies now 180 degrees from the Sunak government? Like Fracking, Tax raises, tax cuts, levelling up, levelling down.

Here's to the new Boss, same as the Old Boss
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I am actually really disappointed about the Braverman appointment.
Sunak is a massive improvement on both Truss and Johnson but he has sort of fallen at the first hurdle. It really is business as usual (as it was under the last two governments) and I can't believe she is actually his choice. The truth is, that if Braverman wasn't HS, Johnson would be about to become PM again - it's a real shit sandwich for the UK. And as I predict above, it surely won't be long before there is a difference of opinion between Braverman and Sunak and the party is split asunder again. So much for the national interest.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
So not answering any question properly, and attacking the previous Labour leader was a good performance? Behave

The Braverman appointment is going to keep coming back weekly. A Home Secretary who cannot be trusted with documents will be under briefed by MI5 and GCHQ. Same as Boris and MI6 when he was Foreign Secretary. A Home Secretary sacked a week ago for insecure communications to unauthorised personnel.

The same failed politicians sitting round the Cabinet table, how many sacked for Code breaches, personal peccadilloes, supporting policies now 180 degrees from the Sunak government? Like Fracking, Tax raises, tax cuts, levelling up, levelling down.

Here's to the new Boss, same as the Old Boss
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Sunak is streets ahead of the last 4 Tory leaders, That's why we need to be worried. He will do all the things that PM's do, he wont answer questions, he will twist the truth, he will deflect, he will lie. Unlike the last four he will have an end game to play for. He's not running to the tune of the ERG (although i do think he's done a deal with them - hence Legal Sue at the home office) his personal point of view is I think somewhat more radical than the general ERG consensus, and Legal Sue might be the political punch bag to give labour free hits, give it three weeks Legal sue is out because her position is untenable (and captain Penny comes in as H Sec) or legal sue and the loony tunes wing of the ERG is cut off at the knees and he gets to do the pragmatic stuff now. I don't think there is any evidence that the Tufton street groups have any hold over him like Truss or Boris, but he is definitely aligned with them. If the opposition don't get to grips with that and Sunak can stem the Tory in-fighting he will take them to a GE and win it hands down.

KMS might not understand British politics but he might actually be right.

The economic plan being suspended for two weeks I think might be to get some final dealings done with the dissenting elements, so that he releases to a Tory party more or less aligned behind the vision.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
I am actually really disappointed about the Braverman appointment.
Sunak is a massive improvement on both Truss and Johnson but he has sort of fallen at the first hurdle. It really is business as usual (as it was under the last two governments) and I can't believe she is actually his choice. The truth is, that if Braverman wasn't HS, Johnson would be about to become PM again - it's a real shit sandwich for the UK. And as I predict above, it surely won't be long before there is a difference of opinion between Braverman and Sunak and the party is split asunder again. So much for the national interest.
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i'm convinced that Legal Sue is in the Cabinet is because he's done a deal with the looney tunes elements of the ERG, (I know, the ERG is pretty much all Looney Tunes but there are aspects which are a bit more bugs bunny (sly and calculating) and some; JRM, legal Sue and a few more who are the full on Elma Fudd)

Braverman will be an easy target for labour, and when she fucks up, which she inevitably will, she is either a lame duck H sec, or is replaced. The Home Office is a bit of a problem if Sunak wants to do some very pragmatic things with the easy Brexit issues, customs union and NI border, so a lame duck H sec is a good thing. Braverman could quite easily end her political career for ever in the next three weeks, and to be honest I don't think she's got the intelligence to paly it cool.
 
glasshalffull said:
Bloody Hell man what have you done? I am pretty sure the Defence Secretary will get MI5 on to this. There could be a few on here getting a knock on their door shortly!
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🤣🤣🤣...been working undercover for a while ... have you not noticed the mysterious absence of a couple of our far left and right posters...decided now was the time to blow my cover...I’ve apologised for my mistakes... Ben accepted my apology... told me to lie low for a week... there’s a top job coming up in the Home Office... apparently I’m well qualified 🤞🤪🤣😉👍
 
glasshalffull said:
Very smooth performance.
The House Speaker really needs to pin members down to answering the questions more though. Way to easy to skip a question by running off on some pre-prepared riff.
Labour clearly think they know something about Braverman’s appointment and previous security leaks.
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Matesrates said:
Gin & tonic, he needs the tonic
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Watching charisma bypass Sir Keir and the dreadful SNP guy I thought Grumbling Time was more appropriate 😡
 
Newholland said:
🤣🤣🤣...been working undercover for a while ... have you not noticed the mysterious absence of a couple of our far left and right posters...decided now was the time to blow my cover...I’ve apologised for my mistakes... Ben accepted my apology... told me to lie low for a week... there’s a top job coming up in the Home Office... apparently I’m well qualified 🤞🤪🤣😉👍
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Yes where is Scaramanga? Have you had the Feds take him down?
 
L’étranger said:
Interesting to see Tories turning against Sunak already. Jake Berry, last weeks Tory Party Chairman, sticking the boot in regarding Sunak’s recent boast about how he was able to funnel vital funds away from deprived areas.
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He has poor advisers. Will be churned up media and voters won't forget.
 
glasshalffull said:
Yes where is Scaramanga? Have you had the Feds take him down?
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The Leftwaffe got scaramanga in the end as he warned us several times

Cat was forced to give up after the NHS threatened to sue AVFTT. Apparently there was a strong correlation between his posting times and blood pressure problems in Fylde coast middle aged men. It was considered better that he stepped aside for the public good.
 
It was obvious that Starmer was going to mention 'Non Dom's" and Floella Benjamin coming back so Sunak had all the answers prepared. He needs to be more original
 
I thought Starmer did okay asking questions about non-doms and Braverman, which Sunak avoided answering without the Boris bluster by deflecting with rehearsed answers and put-downs back. It is obvious that Labour will keep targeting the Tories because they are in it for themselves and not for the good of the people. That they only look after the big businesses and their rich friends because they look after them.

It is obvious that Sunak will not be a popular choice with voters that defected to the Torys at the last election the red wall voters, and will become less popular when the tax rises come on dividends and company tax, which will affect small businesses and those that take their wages as dividends. Sunak will also face the problems of pensions, NHS workers, teachers, etc all wanting increases.

Starmer knows that he just has to keep attacking Sunak's weaknesses the fact he is so rich and out of touch compared to the floating voters,
and the fact that the cabinet is made up of lots of people that have done deals to get there. and are not the best people.

It will be interesting going forward to see what Sunak plans to do, but I suspect his options will be limited by his cabinet and the
state of the economy. If Sunak is to succeed he needs to show that he is leveling up, by putting in a fuel levy on the fuel companies
and by introducing a tax on non-doms.
 
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Macseasider said:
I think Sunak was always going to come out guns ablaze today with everything rehearsed.

But like all top Barrister's - Starmer will pull him apart over the forthcoming weeks, that is if the Tory Party don't do it for him.

There was already a public barney this morning involving Rees Mogg and another "fellow" Tory back bencher.
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Haha you’re deluded.

Everything rehearsed? He only got the job the day before and you may not have noticed but he’s been busily assembling his cabinet and taking calls from world leaders.
So yeah whilst Starmer by contrast has been doing nothing but sniping away as usual, and whilst Starmer has done countless PMQs, you think it was what unfair? Cos Richi has been rehearsing? Do you realise how sill that sounds?
 
Killingmesoftly said:
You probably right, but starmer has zero charisma and as leader make labour unelectable imo….😎
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We had the lettuce out last Liz Truss.
But I doubt the wet lettuce Starmer will be so successful. He’s boring. He’s whining and sneering and doesn’t at all come over well. No chance.
 
Malced said:
Haha you’re deluded.

Everything rehearsed? He only got the job the day before and you may not have noticed but he’s been busily assembling his cabinet and taking calls from world leaders.
So yeah whilst Starmer by contrast has been doing nothing but sniping away as usual, and whilst Starmer has done countless PMQs, you think it was what unfair? Cos Richi has been rehearsing? Do you realise how sill that sounds?
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You call it Starmer's "sniping". I call it deliberated and clinical questioning.

Starmer just doesn't leap about gawforring like Boris did and the over exuberant Sunak did today. Yes it probably appeals to the popularist right wingers seeing someone putting on an act but the public are starting to see that telling lies to be popular is no longer in vogue. People want good honest politics.

And that's why the Tories dare not call a GE because they would be slaughtered at the polls. And yes Starmer's questioning may be staid and deliberate - slightly dull even for those of you who want to see the critical issues of this nation to be entertaining.

Starmer is doing a fine job. Slowly slowly he's outing them all one by one for what they are.
 
I'm not sure Sunak was as accomplished as some on here say. Why would he never look at starmer when responding? Some strange body language going on there.
 
Rishi is far tougher opposition for KS. He's not the bogeyman Boris and he's not robotic Liz.

Firstly, he can point to his decisions during Covid. It doesn't matter that it's cost us £300bn or that everyone else was doing it - he made a significant amount of money available and did increase UC by £20/wk, pay for FSM, make grants to businesses etc etc. The only people who might have an issue were those self employed, who chose to avoid paying tax previously - but most people did ok. He can say, "I have a record of protecting the most vulnerable" and he's right.

IF KS insists on the 'you've got loads of money' it won't work - other than the left, most people don't care what other people have - they just want to be able to have more for themselves. Politics of envy is so old hat.

I've heard that we are going to have windfall taxes on the energy companies - which is a good move. KS - "it's a Labour policy" - RS - "and.. I said I'd make tough decisions in the best interests of the UK and I will..." he gets the benefit of doing it. He'll also cap the profits that they can make - essentially part-nationalising them and using that to target energy intensive businesses (which will include cafe's etc).

There will be more; but he is going to really push himself as a champion for compassionate conservatism - we need to look after the most vulnerable but create the conditions where more people can keep more of their own money - in the medium term when we've ridden out the current economic storm - which is mostly Ukraine, and Covid - and a bit of Truss and Johnson - I'm not either of them though.

The stuff about Braverman, matters not a jot to most people who aren't political anoraks, they are more interested what the department does etc etc.

KS is going to have to start spelling out what Labour are for - rather than what they are against. It's not easy. His idea of a nationalised renewable energy producer is a good start, as is their desire to allow for community asset ownership - but they've a long way to go.

It's going to be interesting to see how things unfold over the next two years.
 
TSSeasider said:
Rishi is far tougher opposition for KS. He's not the bogeyman Boris and he's not robotic Liz.

Firstly, he can point to his decisions during Covid. It doesn't matter that it's cost us £300bn or that everyone else was doing it - he made a significant amount of money available and did increase UC by £20/wk, pay for FSM, make grants to businesses etc etc. The only people who might have an issue were those self employed, who chose to avoid paying tax previously - but most people did ok. He can say, "I have a record of protecting the most vulnerable" and he's right.

IF KS insists on the 'you've got loads of money' it won't work - other than the left, most people don't care what other people have - they just want to be able to have more for themselves. Politics of envy is so old hat.

I've heard that we are going to have windfall taxes on the energy companies - which is a good move. KS - "it's a Labour policy" - RS - "and.. I said I'd make tough decisions in the best interests of the UK and I will..." he gets the benefit of doing it. He'll also cap the profits that they can make - essentially part-nationalising them and using that to target energy intensive businesses (which will include cafe's etc).

There will be more; but he is going to really push himself as a champion for compassionate conservatism - we need to look after the most vulnerable but create the conditions where more people can keep more of their own money - in the medium term when we've ridden out the current economic storm - which is mostly Ukraine, and Covid - and a bit of Truss and Johnson - I'm not either of them though.

The stuff about Braverman, matters not a jot to most people who aren't political anoraks, they are more interested what the department does etc etc.

KS is going to have to start spelling out what Labour are for - rather than what they are against. It's not easy. His idea of a nationalised renewable energy producer is a good start, as is their desire to allow for community asset ownership - but they've a long way to go.

It's going to be interesting to see how things unfold over the next two years.
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Good!
 
TSSeasider said:
Rishi is far tougher opposition for KS. He's not the bogeyman Boris and he's not robotic Liz.

Firstly, he can point to his decisions during Covid. It doesn't matter that it's cost us £300bn or that everyone else was doing it - he made a significant amount of money available and did increase UC by £20/wk, pay for FSM, make grants to businesses etc etc. The only people who might have an issue were those self employed, who chose to avoid paying tax previously - but most people did ok. He can say, "I have a record of protecting the most vulnerable" and he's right.

IF KS insists on the 'you've got loads of money' it won't work - other than the left, most people don't care what other people have - they just want to be able to have more for themselves. Politics of envy is so old hat.

I've heard that we are going to have windfall taxes on the energy companies - which is a good move. KS - "it's a Labour policy" - RS - "and.. I said I'd make tough decisions in the best interests of the UK and I will..." he gets the benefit of doing it. He'll also cap the profits that they can make - essentially part-nationalising them and using that to target energy intensive businesses (which will include cafe's etc).

There will be more; but he is going to really push himself as a champion for compassionate conservatism - we need to look after the most vulnerable but create the conditions where more people can keep more of their own money - in the medium term when we've ridden out the current economic storm - which is mostly Ukraine, and Covid - and a bit of Truss and Johnson - I'm not either of them though.

The stuff about Braverman, matters not a jot to most people who aren't political anoraks, they are more interested what the department does etc etc.

KS is going to have to start spelling out what Labour are for - rather than what they are against. It's not easy. His idea of a nationalised renewable energy producer is a good start, as is their desire to allow for community asset ownership - but they've a long way to go.

It's going to be interesting to see how things unfold over the next two years.
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Not very often I agree with you, but I think you are right on most things here.

I think you are wrong on a couple of details: he wants to be perceived in the short term as a compassionate conservative, and will implement short term policies to that end, for the simple reason that that perception will get him through to the GE and, based on a record over a two year period, probably a landslide. at which point he will be able to implement the things he truly believes in, which constitutes an ultra libertarian capital economy. Small hands off government, ultra privatisation, Low regulation, low tax for capital: and low wage, low protection, relatively high tax, and significant policing of personal lives for those who actually work.

The stuff about Braverman does matter because ideologically she is in genuine extreme authoritarian territory, with everything that implies. Today its shipping immigrants and asylum seekers to Rwanda, and limiting / removing the right to protest - which rights tomorrow does she want to remove; free association, Independence of the judiciary (which is teetering on the edge as it is), additional police powers. The right to trial.

KS and Labour have to start thinking long term or at least medium term, but I think the nature of Starmer is that he's someone who thinks he can win an argument at PMsQT at which point he's won and everything is suddenly fixed.
 
TSSeasider said:
Rishi is far tougher opposition for KS. He's not the bogeyman Boris and he's not robotic Liz.

Firstly, he can point to his decisions during Covid. It doesn't matter that it's cost us £300bn or that everyone else was doing it - he made a significant amount of money available and did increase UC by £20/wk, pay for FSM, make grants to businesses etc etc. The only people who might have an issue were those self employed, who chose to avoid paying tax previously - but most people did ok. He can say, "I have a record of protecting the most vulnerable" and he's right.

IF KS insists on the 'you've got loads of money' it won't work - other than the left, most people don't care what other people have - they just want to be able to have more for themselves. Politics of envy is so old hat.

I've heard that we are going to have windfall taxes on the energy companies - which is a good move. KS - "it's a Labour policy" - RS - "and.. I said I'd make tough decisions in the best interests of the UK and I will..." he gets the benefit of doing it. He'll also cap the profits that they can make - essentially part-nationalising them and using that to target energy intensive businesses (which will include cafe's etc).

There will be more; but he is going to really push himself as a champion for compassionate conservatism - we need to look after the most vulnerable but create the conditions where more people can keep more of their own money - in the medium term when we've ridden out the current economic storm - which is mostly Ukraine, and Covid - and a bit of Truss and Johnson - I'm not either of them though.

The stuff about Braverman, matters not a jot to most people who aren't political anoraks, they are more interested what the department does etc etc.

KS is going to have to start spelling out what Labour are for - rather than what they are against. It's not easy. His idea of a nationalised renewable energy producer is a good start, as is their desire to allow for community asset ownership - but they've a long way to go.

It's going to be interesting to see how things unfold over the next two years.
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I agree with that. If the Braverman attack on Sunak is the worst the opposition can come up with it's a pretty feeble effort. Not that they need to spend all their time trying to undermine the government. I'm sure people would rather hear about their policies. On the subject of compassionate conservatism, Rishi needs to have a re-think about pensions. OAPs have had a really bad deal and although they are not a militant group they are a powerful voting sector that the Tories could do without upsetting.
 
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Costero Poderoso said:
Not very often I agree with you, but I think you are right on most things here.

I think you are wrong on a couple of details: he wants to be perceived in the short term as a compassionate conservative, and will implement short term policies to that end, for the simple reason that that perception will get him through to the GE and, based on a record over a two year period, probably a landslide. at which point he will be able to implement the things he truly believes in, which constitutes an ultra libertarian capital economy. Small hands off government, ultra privatisation, Low regulation, low tax for capital: and low wage, low protection, relatively high tax, and significant policing of personal lives for those who actually work.

The stuff about Braverman does matter because ideologically she is in genuine extreme authoritarian territory, with everything that implies. Today its shipping immigrants and asylum seekers to Rwanda, and limiting / removing the right to protest - which rights tomorrow does she want to remove; free association, Independence of the judiciary (which is teetering on the edge as it is), additional police powers. The right to trial.

KS and Labour have to start thinking long term or at least medium term, but I think the nature of Starmer is that he's someone who thinks he can win an argument at PMsQT at which point he's won and everything is suddenly fixed.
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I'm not sure that we will ever see a government as you've described in what RS really believes in. I think at worst, it'll be shavings off tax, and the odd cut here and there. IF that does happen, it's a one election wonder as they'll be voted out.
 
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