Prostitution

Lala

Lala

Well-known member
Should it be legalised ?

The ripper drama got me thinking about this. Not sure I had an opinion before but I’ve got one now ! Open to be dissuaded though as ever.

I feel that if a woman, or man, wants to use their body to make money then why not ? If she/he isn’t controlled by a pimp and it is a properly regulated business what are the cons ? Safer, no threat of criminalisation and less stigma are surely all pro’s.

We sell our time and energy in any profession, why not this one ?

The ultimate rule must be though that it is their choice and their choice alone.

Thoughts ?

Happy Sunday guys, lovely out there today ☺️
 
It’s been around from the start of human kind and will to the end.

Broadly I agree with you Lala. If it could be regulated in a way that doesn’t involve exploitation then yes it should be. People want to pay for it (for what ever that reason might be?) like they pay for anything they desire, and others are happy to sell it.

It’s when they don’t want to sell it and are forced, or use the info to exploit the purchaser that pain is suffered.

Interesting debate.
 
tommytwojags said:
Morning Lala. Plenty of food for thought there. Of course they would have to be properly regulated as you say. And pay tax on their income. And trading standards would have to sample their services before they were approved and licensed.
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There would be some disappointed TS officers who had to sample the sex the didn’t desire 😂
 
Prostitution is already legal in the UK. It’s certain related activities that are illegal.
For instance, you can walk into any of the brothels on Cookson St. and legally pay for sex, but it would be illegal for someone to stand outside one of them enticing passers by to go in (soliciting).
As a cabbie, we often get brothels offering us cash payments to take people to their brothel, if we’re asked “Where’s the brothels, mate”.
If we were caught doing this, we’d end up on the sex offenders list for soliciting!

I’ve no problem with prostitution in principle, with the caveats already mentioned by previous posters, but I’d make this point -
Just because someone chooses to sell their body for sex, doesn’t necessarily make it a fair choice. For someone making 100’s of 1,000’s on Just Fans, or as a high end escort, then fair do’s, but someone in debt up to their eyeballs, and can’t afford to feed their kids, then prostitution may not be a free choice.
 
Lala said:
Should it be legalised ?

The ripper drama got me thinking about this. Not sure I had an opinion before but I’ve got one now ! Open to be dissuaded though as ever.

I feel that if a woman, or man, wants to use their body to make money then why not ? If she/he isn’t controlled by a pimp and it is a properly regulated business what are the cons ? Safer, no threat of criminalisation and less stigma are surely all pro’s.

We sell our time and energy in any profession, why not this one ?

The ultimate rule must be though that it is their choice and their choice alone.

Thoughts ?

Happy Sunday guys, lovely out there today ☺️
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Possibly & there will be many politicians who have the necessary knowledge to implement such a scheme. 😬
Joking apart it could be a good thing for those who want these kind of services. It does however open a can of worms as I guess there’s lots of exploitation especially where the people involved are using it to fuel a drug habit. How this would be policed I don’t know. Any such legislation would have to be carefully considered using statistical information from places where it is legalised.
 
Johnno said:
Prostitution is already legal in the UK. It’s certain related activities that are illegal.
For instance, you can walk into any of the brothels on Cookson St. and legally pay for sex, but it would be illegal for someone to stand outside one of them enticing passers by to go in (soliciting).
As a cabbie, we often get brothels offering us cash payments to take people to their brothel, if we’re asked “Where’s the brothels, mate”.
If we were caught doing this, we’d end up on the sex offenders list for soliciting!

I’ve no problem with prostitution in principle, with the caveats already mentioned by previous posters, but I’d make this point -
Just because someone chooses to sell their body for sex, doesn’t necessarily make it a fair choice. For someone making 100’s of 1,000’s on Just Fans, or as a high end escort, then fair do’s, but someone in debt up to their eyeballs, and can’t afford to feed their kids, then prostitution may not be a free choice.
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Re your latter point I get that Johnno. I don’t think it’s ever a free choice in terms of preferred option. But if it’s not a coerced decision then maybe it’s still classed as their choice.

Obviously if there are vulnerabilities that prevent that choice from ever being classed as autonomous, then the regulation in place needs to be stringent enough to pick up on that.

I didn’t know that about legal prostitution, I thought it was still sold under the pretence of massages and alike. Is it stringently regulated now ? Can you start a business in your own home ( asking for a friend - not 😆).
 
Lala said:
Re your latter point I get that Johnno. I don’t think it’s ever a free choice in terms of preferred option. But if it’s not a coerced decision then maybe it’s still classed as their choice.

Obviously if there are vulnerabilities that prevent that choice from ever being classed as autonomous, then the regulation in place needs to be stringent enough to pick up on that.

I didn’t know that about legal prostitution, I thought it was still sold under the pretence of massages and alike. Is it stringently regulated now ? Can you start a business in your own home ( asking for a friend - not 😆).
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I’m not an expert 😊 but it’s not regulated to the level of Germany or the Netherlands.
Thinking about it, I think the brothels are only allowed to advertise as massage parlours, otherwise they’d fall into the ‘soliciting’ laws. The act of sex for money is legal, so what goes on inside is ok, it’s the touting for business that’s illegal.
 
Lala said:
Re your latter point I get that Johnno. I don’t think it’s ever a free choice in terms of preferred option. But if it’s not a coerced decision then maybe it’s still classed as their choice.

Obviously if there are vulnerabilities that prevent that choice from ever being classed as autonomous, then the regulation in place needs to be stringent enough to pick up on that.

I didn’t know that about legal prostitution, I thought it was still sold under the pretence of massages and alike. Is it stringently regulated now ? Can you start a business in your own home ( asking for a friend - not 😆).
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My starting point is always that sex between consenting adults is really none of my business and that includes where the consent is given in return for payment. That said, Johnno’s point about some women not really having “free choice” because of their economic circumstances is a valid one, although I suppose ultimately in theory at least they always have a choice.

To answer your question, yes it’s legal for a woman to operate alone from her home or other property. However if she asked another girl to join her that would make the property a brothel and illegal. This is despite the fact two or more girls working together is obviously much safer than one girl working alone (a point working girls often make when arguing for legalisation).

As for brothels, as I said above, they are technically illegal but in practice the police often turn a blind eye. There are all sorts of reasons for that but mainly because it’s a way of controlling the industry and many of the brothel owners act as gatekeepers and keep an eye out for girls who may have been trafficked. In effect they can be a source of intelligence for the police by reporting pop up operations run by foreign organised crime groups (this isn’t wholly altruistic; obviously it’s to their advantage to have the police close down competitors). There is in fact a string of brothels operated by a former Beds police officer which has been reported in the media.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Does this ex-detective's sex empire prove police brothels are legal?

Amid growing concerns that police forces are turning a blind eye to brothels, Karl Evanson appeared on television this week bragging about his ‘good working relationship’ with the police.
www.dailymail.co.uk
 
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Mexboroseasider said:
My starting point is always that sex between consenting adults is really none of my business and that includes where the consent is given in return for payment. That said, Johnno’s point about some women not really having “free choice” because of their economic circumstances is a valid one, although I suppose ultimately in theory at least they always have a choice.

To answer your question, yes it’s legal for a woman to operate alone from her home or other property. However if she asked another girl to join her that would make the property a brothel and illegal. This is despite the fact two or more girls working together is obviously much safer than one girl working alone (a point working girls often make when arguing for legalisation).

As for brothels, as I said above, they are technically illegal but in practice the police often turn a blind eye. There are all sorts of reasons for that but mainly because it’s a way of controlling the industry and many of the brothel owners at as gatekeepers and keep an eye out for girls who may have been trafficked. In effect they can be a source of intelligence for the police by reporting pop up operations run by foreign organised crime groups (this isn’t wholly altruistic; obviously it’s to their advantage to have the police close down competitors). There is in fact a string of brothels operated by a former Beds police officer which has been reported in the media.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Does this ex-detective's sex empire prove police brothels are legal?

Amid growing concerns that police forces are turning a blind eye to brothels, Karl Evanson appeared on television this week bragging about his ‘good working relationship’ with the police.
www.dailymail.co.uk
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Happy to be corrected about the legal status of brothels, it’s a complicated set up legally.
👍
 
Johnno said:
Happy to be corrected about the legal status of brothels, it’s a complicated set up legally.
👍
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The law is confusing and a bit of a mess frankly. The Mail article attached to my last post gives a brief overview of the legal position at the end.

Edit to add - given the law is a bit of a mess (which politicians don’t appear to have an appetite to sort out) the police and the CPS have taken a pragmatic approach.

See attached.

Prostitution and Exploitation of Prostitution | The Crown Prosecution Service

www.cps.gov.uk www.cps.gov.uk
 
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Personally, I'd never want to use a prostitute as I believe that sex should be between one man and one women, exclusively where they are husband and wife.

Us to whether prostitution should be legalized, my view is that it is wrong as it destroys that exclusive relationship that I believe sex is meant to be, as does any sexual activity outside of the marital bond.

Other than that I have no views on the subject. Other than it's not a practice, I would wish to engage in
 
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What's wrong with usual Great British compromise. We get on our high horses and loudly tut at prostitution in a blissful moral outrage then turn a blind eye to what goes on. Outright legalisation is problematic as it can hide trafficking and God knows what else. Just muddling along is fine.
 
tommytwojags said:
Morning Lala. Plenty of food for thought there. Of course they would have to be properly regulated as you say. And pay tax on their income. And trading standards would have to sample their services before they were approved and licensed.
Click to expand...
Pay tax on their services? Would you pay by card and insist on a receipt Tommy?
 
Lala said:
Re your latter point I get that Johnno. I don’t think it’s ever a free choice in terms of preferred option. But if it’s not a coerced decision then maybe it’s still classed as their choice.

Obviously if there are vulnerabilities that prevent that choice from ever being classed as autonomous, then the regulation in place needs to be stringent enough to pick up on that.

I didn’t know that about legal prostitution, I thought it was still sold under the pretence of massages and alike. Is it stringently regulated now ? Can you start a business in your own home ( asking for a friend - not 😆).
Click to expand...
I would imagine anything’s possible on the internet, but I doubt it’s regulated.
 
It works in Amsterdam along with smoking canabis in designated places. Well policed and regulated all so makes the areas massive tourist attractions for not only people wanting these services but everyone visiting Amsterdam.
Unlike a late night trip around Soho back when it was a large red light attraction a walk through Amsterdams is a must and feels anything but seedy and dirty. Courting couples, young and old all experiencing Amsterdams unique tourist attractions.
 
April13th1970 said:
Personally, I'd never want to use a prostitute as I believe that sex should be between one man and one women, exclusively where they are husband and wife.

Us to whether prostitution should be legalized, my view is that it is wrong as it destroys that exclusive relationship that I believe sex is meant to be, as does any sexual activity outside of the marital bond.

Other than that I have no views on the subject. Other than it's not a practice, I would wish to engage in
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Apart from when a marriage ends in divorce. Then if one of the parties either a man or woman is richer then a judge awards the poorer

person an amount for their time spent with them. That sounds like prostitution to me.
 
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April13th1970 said:
Personally, I'd never want to use a prostitute as I believe that sex should be between one man and one women, exclusively where they are husband and wife.

Us to whether prostitution should be legalized, my view is that it is wrong as it destroys that exclusive relationship that I believe sex is meant to be, as does any sexual activity outside of the marital bond.

Other than that I have no views on the subject. Other than it's not a practice, I would wish to engage in
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I wouldn’t engage in it either, but it’s not about me, it’s about those who want to engage in it for a living, for whatever reasons.
As for the sanctity of marriage, I guess that’s between the people in the marriage.

Legalising prostitution doesn’t have to affect you personally, if you don’t want it to.
 
southshore said:
Pay tax on their services? Would you pay by card and insist on a receipt Tommy?
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I think that’s part of the debate.

Legalising it in all forms would make it a legitimate business transaction with all that comes with that, taxation and contactless payments et al 👌
 
I think it's a first world question, in that the only semi ethical way it could be conceived as morally ok is if you had absolute proof that 100% of the sex workers weren't trafficked or forced into it.

The general difficulty of doing so makes it close to impossible to legalise.
That said, I've read about people with disabilities or difficult circumstances whose families have found a sex worker...it feels cruel to restrict that.

Culturally...when I lived in China it was seen as a much lesser sin than having a mistress. Almost as if the fact it was a monetary transaction made it less hurtful than having an illicit relationship with someone else.

Interesting hypothetical. Would you be more hurt if you found out your partner had been having an affair with someone they saw a future with, date nights, romantic mini breaks etc...or if due to a compulsive desire they'd been paying any old sort for a fumble in a Lidl car park?

Both gross but I suspect the former hits harder.
 
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Back to the Amsterdam model, all legal and above board. Tax and insurance paid along with regular inspections of premises and sexual health checks.
A business model that should and hopefully cuts out pimps, underage and vulnerable participants std's and racketeering.
 
look.its.luke said:
I think it's a first world question, in that the only semi ethical way it could be conceived as morally ok is if you had absolute proof that 100% of the sex workers weren't trafficked or forced into it.

The general difficulty of doing so makes it close to impossible to legalise.
That said, I've read about people with disabilities or difficult circumstances whose families have found a sex worker...it feels cruel to restrict that.

Culturally...when I lived in China it was seen as a much lesser sin than having a mistress. Almost as if the fact it was a monetary transaction made it less hurtful than having an illicit relationship with someone else.

Interesting hypothetical. Would you be more hurt if you found out your partner had been having an affair with someone they saw a future with, date nights, romantic mini breaks etc...or if due to a compulsive desire they'd been paying any old sort for a fumble in a Lidl car park?

Both gross but I suspect the former hits harder.
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The former would certainly hit harder. Both would flag up problems in the marriage though, in my opinion.
 
I’ve never used such services but how does it work as regards time and VFM? So as an example if the Lady Prostitute asks for say £50. What time do you get for that? So as an example SPS would pay the £50 but famously would “go off” after 15 seconds or so whereas a Stallion like say me could be there right through til breakfast time…….would SPS get a second go on the ride?, would I get charged extra even though that wasn’t agreed in the verbal contract or risk getting roughed up by a Pimpman?

We should be told these things
 
Lala said:
Should it be legalised ?

The ripper drama got me thinking about this. Not sure I had an opinion before but I’ve got one now ! Open to be dissuaded though as ever.

I feel that if a woman, or man, wants to use their body to make money then why not ? If she/he isn’t controlled by a pimp and it is a properly regulated business what are the cons ? Safer, no threat of criminalisation and less stigma are surely all pro’s.

We sell our time and energy in any profession, why not this one ?

The ultimate rule must be though that it is their choice and their choice alone.

Thoughts ?

Happy Sunday guys, lovely out there today ☺️
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Lala , I hope this is not an alternative career option linked to the retirement thread?😦
On a serious note, there are two concerns I would have with legalising it. The first relates to the fact that many young people and women have been trafficked, controlled and exploited into prostitution and drugs by organised gangs and odious individuals, who are often quite violent as well. When I worked with the community safety partnership this was an increasing problem, including across counties. Would legalisation encourage more of that and make it more difficult to prosecute them? Secondly, I like to think that young children have inocent minds, but they are impressionable, and having a legal and a public face of it could impact on that. Even moreso in a place like Blackpool , with its seafront arcades, clubs and shows. Madamme Tussaud's could have a whole new facade! Aren't we trying to improve the image and look of Blackpool, not degrade it further?
There would be zero chance it would be effectively regulated.
 
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bfcpete said:
Lala , I hope this is not an alternative career option linked to the retirement thread?😦
On a serious note, there are two concerns I would have with legalising it. The first relates to the fact that many young people and women have been trafficked, controlled and exploited into prostitution and drugs by organised gangs and odious individuals, who are often quite violent as well. When I worked with the community safety partnership this was an increasing problem, including across counties. Would legalisation encourage more of that and make it more difficult to prosecute them? Secondly, I like to think that young children have inocent minds, but they are impressionable, and having a legal and a public face of it could impact on that. Even moreso in a place like Blackpool , with its seafront arcades, clubs and shows. Madamme Tussaud's could have a whole new facade! Aren't we trying to improve the image and look of Blackpool, not degrade it further?
There would be zero chance it would be effectively regulated.
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On your first point, I think legalisation would make the involvement of victims of trafficking much more difficult. Following your logic then trafficked people would currently be employed by legitimate businesses. This is also why law enforcement currently turn a blind eye to brothels. The brothel owners are a source of intelligence and effectively gatekeepers. Read the article I posted earlier about the ex copper who operates a string of brothels with the sanction of Thames Valley and the Met police forces. Combating trafficking and controlling the industry is precisely why he’s allowed to operate.

On your second point, brothels could be restricted to particular areas away from public view (industrial estates etc). If they breach their licences then they could be closed down. And specifically on Blackpool, I pass numerous brothels on my way to the Blue Room from Blackpool north so it couldn’t be much more obvious or worse!
 
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My one association with a prostitute is as follows.
I had a part-time Summer job in the amusement arcade outside the bingo hall that was Central Station..
Late summer, a cold blustery wind and not many people about.
I was just outside the front when a 'Lady' came out of the New Inn and walked past me. I knew who and what she was. 😉
As she walked past I just said 'It's not very warm is it?'
She kept on walking and said, 'Fuck off'.😟
Needless to say, I never spoke to her again.😉
 
A couple were having financial difficulties, so in desperation, the wife offered to go out and offer 'services'. At the end of the first night, she came back with £40 and 50p. The husband said 'that's great but who gave you the 50p'. She said 'they all did!'
 
Having been in the hotel and pub trade for 25 years, I have come across a few of these ladies. Two who worked from home and didn't hide the fact.
One, who had since retired then passed away, told me a great deal about herself, how she has started, why she had carried on and a lot about the street walkers who she was quite bluntly totally against. I hasten to add that the goods were never sampled, even though the offer had been made.

Security was always her main concern and she had been trading, as she called it, for a number of years, all her clients were regulars and new clients were blokes who had been recommended to her. She was in full control of whatever went on. I remember her saying I won't stand for any funny business or violence of any kind. She would also not acknowledge any of her clients if she were out and seen by them.

I've always thought that if her life was used as a model, it would be perfect to have it legalised. She knew her way around and who to trust and often related things to me that she had heard on the grape vine to ensure I didn't let the wrong kind in the pub. I believe its still illegal to allow known prostitutes to use a public house.

Anyway that is my ten peneth to the conversation.
 
I'm not sure what the answer is TBH... It's all a bit seedy for me.... I'm not sure it really needs to be encouraged any more than it already is. It's a pretty grim way to make a living and I'm not convinced anybody really goes there out of choice.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I'm not sure what the answer is TBH... It's all a bit seedy for me.... I'm not sure it really needs to be encouraged any more than it already is. It's a pretty grim way to make a living and I'm not convinced anybody really goes there out of choice.
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I agree with you in principle. I don’t think it’s ever ‘a choice ‘ as such .

I just think maybe legislating for it may make it safer for those who are going to do it anyway.
 
Fom what I have read over the years, the safest model for prostitution and those involved in all ways is the Amsterdam one.

If people wish to make money from their bodies, are doing it of their own free will and others wish to pay them, I think that is none of my business. I'm sure seeing the Ripper programme focused many of us on how dreadfully those prostitutes were treated after the event by those who wished to use them. Similarly, violence was tolerated because 'they were only tarts'.
 
Davepick said:
My one association with a prostitute is as follows.
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Mine is as follows.

I was walking home from work in the early evening. At the time I was working as a teacher in a small Chinese city.

Two ladies, dressed in a way that clearly suggested an horizontal inclination were having a playfight at the side of the road with a beautiful golden retriever puppy.

As I got nearer the puppy bolted over to me and I, being human, gave him some snuggles.

In this conservative, Muslim majority region of China (Xinjiang) there isn't much in the way of nightlife, so in the evenings the social gatherings revolve around a neighbourhood BBQ and live music at the street corner.

Every weekend for a year, I'd be sitting outside with colleagues, my boss, my girlfriend, parents of my students.... and a dog would burst over to me, closely followed by the scantily clad owner...who would loudly proclaim "He REMEMBERS you!"

Not ideal 😆
 
Tangerinemoss said:
Fom what I have read over the years, the safest model for prostitution and those involved in all ways is the Amsterdam one.

If people wish to make money from their bodies, are doing it of their own free will and others wish to pay them, I think that is none of my business. I'm sure seeing the Ripper programme focused many of us on how dreadfully those prostitutes were treated after the event by those who wished to use them. Similarly, violence was tolerated because 'they were only tarts'.
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The thing is, those attitudes to women were prevalent across society but the police were even worse than most.

The regular stories out of the Met show its not gone away totally.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
Fom what I have read over the years, the safest model for prostitution and those involved in all ways is the Amsterdam one.

If people wish to make money from their bodies, are doing it of their own free will and others wish to pay them, I think that is none of my business. I'm sure seeing the Ripper programme focused many of us on how dreadfully those prostitutes were treated after the event by those who wished to use them. Similarly, violence was tolerated because 'they were only tarts'.
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Is the Netherlands not one of the statistically worst places for Human Trafficking, specifically to meet the demand for the sex trade?
 
Davepick said:
My one association with a prostitute is as follows.
I had a part-time Summer job in the amusement arcade outside the bingo hall that was Central Station..
Late summer, a cold blustery wind and not many people about.
I was just outside the front when a 'Lady' came out of the New Inn and walked past me. I knew who and what she was. 😉
As she walked past I just said 'It's not very warm is it?'
She kept on walking and said, 'Fuck off'.😟
Needless to say, I never spoke to her again.😉
Click to expand...
a classy girl then
 
According to my late Dad, in the days when Central Station was open and Blackpool was at its peak for holidaymakers
the place where the working girls hang out was " The Dirty Duck" the Swan pub. They could be recognized by the fact that
they all wore garters, making it easy for the holidaymakers straight off the train.
 
Danny Ocean said:
According to my late Dad, in the days when Central Station was open and Blackpool was at its peak for holidaymakers
the place where the working girls hang out was " The Dirty Duck" the Swan pub. They could be recognized by the fact that
they all wore garters, making it easy for the holidaymakers straight off the train.
Click to expand...
They also hung out at the New Inn near Central Station.
 
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