Rail to Fleetwood

Think they're looking as far as Wyre Dock like it was when originally built. Be interesting to see if it's part of the national rail network or a light rail/tram. Also, where does leave the Poulton Wyre railway who have just brought their own DMU onto the line near Thornton?
 
*Party political hat on*
Blackpool North & Cleveleys is a Tory marginal. Fleetwood and Lancaster is a Labour marginal. Gain the latter and increase the majority in the former and the whole of Blackpool, Fylde and Wyre will be blue.
*Party political hat off*
I think this would be a very positive, popular and economically successful move that would hugely improve public transport connectivity around the Fylde penninsular and to Preston. Especially if it is based on the tram network. I can then foresee the tram system being extended onto the Blackpool South-Preston line.
 
66, thanks for your analysis. This was one of the reasons I started the thread, I was aware of the possibility of putting a light rail/tram onto the old line, although I understand that some bits of it have been built on (I used to live about 50 yards from it in Thornton and remember when it was a real railway). I am surprised that, in our current financial state, something that may be a good idea but probably is not sustainable, would be top of the UK announcements.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
66, thanks for your analysis. This was one of the reasons I started the thread, I was aware of the possibility of putting a light rail/tram onto the old line, although I understand that some bits of it have been built on (I used to live about 50 yards from it in Thornton and remember when it was a real railway). I am surprised that, in our current financial state, something that may be a good idea but probably is not sustainable, would be top of the UK announcements.
Click to expand...

It's not built on at all up to the point where the old track bed meets the new road. I don't think it would be a massive challenge to run a new track bed alongside the road. The Jameson road bridge was filled in. That's the only obstruction up to the point it meets with the Amounderness Way, just after Cala Gran.
 
td53 said:
It's not built on at all up to the point where the old track bed meets the new road. I don't think it would be a massive challenge to run a new track bed alongside the road. The Jameson road bridge was filled in. That's the only obstruction up to the point it meets with the Amounderness Way, just after Cala Gran.
Click to expand...
Your knowledge and that of Tangerine Moss is way beyond mine but, parochially, whilst his would be an excellent move that makes obvious local sense - it would also be very expensive. Infrastructure don't come cheap and for every Fylde rail system there are bound to be others in all points of Britain where Breeching laid waste.
 
Last edited:
1966_and_all_that said:
Your knowledge and that of Tangerine miss is way beyond mine but, parochially, whilst his would be an excellent move that makes obvious local sense - it would also be very expensive. Infrastructure don't come cheap and for every Fylde rail system there are bound to be others in all points of Britain where Breeching laid waste.
Click to expand...

I think it would be one of the cheapest potential reopenings as the line is clear, the track may need upgrading, but is in situ for most part and it would need a big signalling upgrade I'd guess and a new level crossing in Thornton but for light rail especially, I don't think it's *that* far off usable, in comparison to the majority of the lines cut by Breeching where they're built upon or have been lifted then completely unmaintained for 50 years.

You'd have to work out how to get up to Wyre Dock though, given the dock entrance road is now also the entrance for the big housing estate IRC. (or is that wrong, I can't remember!)
 
td53 said:
I think it would be one of the cheapest potential reopenings as the line is clear, the track may need upgrading, but is in situ for most part and it would need a big signalling upgrade I'd guess and a new level crossing in Thornton but for light rail especially, I don't think it's *that* far off usable, in comparison to the majority of the lines cut by Breeching where they're built upon or have been lifted then completely unmaintained for 50 years.

You'd have to work out how to get up to Wyre Dock though, given the dock entrance road is now also the entrance for the big housing estate IRC. (or is that wrong, I can't remember!)
Click to expand...
Couldn't it be connected to the tram tracks on the outskirts and a station built near the North Euston?
*Note - not a railway design expert.*
 
1966_and_all_that said:
Couldn't it be connected to the tram tracks on the outskirts and a station built near the North Euston?
*Note - not a railway design expert.*
Click to expand...

Nor me, but I'd say the problem would be that to run to that part of Fleetwood, you'd have to demolish buildings on the river side of Dock Road, and cross two roads + the Freeport site.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
Couldn't it be connected to the tram tracks on the outskirts and a station built near the North Euston?
*Note - not a railway design expert.*
Click to expand...

Actually, I see what you mean - I suppose the problem would be you'd have to go over Amounderness Way to get to tram line via outskirts
 
Although I would like to see Fleetwood prosper I cannot see the rail link will help much. In the old days the railway was a connection to ICI and the docks - both of which have gone. That leaves tourists and I can't see vast numbers using the rail link.
 
CompleteControl said:
Although I would like to see Fleetwood prosper I cannot see the rail link will help much. In the old days the railway was a connection to ICI and the docks - both of which have gone. That leaves tourists and I can't see vast numbers using the rail link.
Click to expand...
I was thinking about the residents. Plus, if Fleetwood became easily accessible that way, why not other Fylde residents going up there for the market, and pubs?
 
Off the wiki entry for the Fleetwood railway

Current situation[edit]

Poulton-le-Fylde Junction, where the disused line joins the main line to Blackpool (pictured in 2008)
Some of the track is now clear of being overgrown as the northern track was never lifted up past Burn Naze Halt to just beyond Jameson Road Fleetwood although the road bridge was filled in below it. On this stretch the junction is still there where goods trains used to take coal to Fleetwood Power Station. If you look over the road bridge on Jameson Road you can still see the track (to both north & south) through the undergrowth.[4] In the 1990s, the new A585 Amounderness Way bypass was built on the former trackbed, though sufficient space still exists for a reinstated railway should it be required.
 
This would be the Grant Shapps who, in a previous existence, was the brains behind a grubby, discredited, get-rich-quick business.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
Off the wiki entry for the Fleetwood railway

Current situation[edit]

Poulton-le-Fylde Junction, where the disused line joins the main line to Blackpool (pictured in 2008)
Some of the track is now clear of being overgrown as the northern track was never lifted up past Burn Naze Halt to just beyond Jameson Road Fleetwood although the road bridge was filled in below it. On this stretch the junction is still there where goods trains used to take coal to Fleetwood Power Station. If you look over the road bridge on Jameson Road you can still see the track (to both north & south) through the undergrowth.[4] In the 1990s, the new A585 Amounderness Way bypass was built on the former trackbed, though sufficient space still exists for a reinstated railway should it be required.
Click to expand...
The junction was severed (points removed) when the line to Blackpool was electrified. I could see the tramway being extended from fleetwood to Poulton using the line on the right into a seperate platform at Poulton where the station car park now is.
 
Wizaard said:
Quick, we need something to distract the media from Dominic Cummings.

I know, we'll mention reopening the Poulton to Fleetwood line.

That'll do it. Dominic, you can come out again.
Click to expand...
Somehow I doubt that mentioning some poxy little branch line that the majority of the country doesn't know exists, would be used to distract the media. They'd used something far more newsworthy.
 
As much I would love a train line coming into my home town i just don’t think it’s viable on a financial side and also numbers who would use it to make it worthwhile. With the tram link to Blackpool North it would mean the town having two very modern links to the mainline and it just seems excessive for a town like Fleetwood.
 
Fleetwoodseasider said:
As much I would love a train line coming into my home town i just don’t think it’s viable on a financial side and also numbers who would use it to make it worthwhile. With the tram link to Blackpool North it would mean the town having two very modern links to the mainline and it just seems excessive for a town like Fleetwood.
Click to expand...
The point I was trying to make is that by linking Fleetwood with Poulton, using the old line where possible, a tram network could be extended through to the whole of the Fylde coast. Fleetwood would still only have one main terminus, with trams running to Blackpool in one direction (then hopefully on to Lytham), and to Poulton in the other direction. Of course, Fleetwood residents could then choose to access mainline trains at either Blackpool or Poulton-le-Fylde but remember that not all mainline trains stop at Poulton.
 
A light rail option would be cheapest.. Approx £50million. ( not sure Fleetwood is worth it 😉)

Based on 5mill per KM.. Which is the cheapest cost for metro/light rail extensions built in the uk..
 
Wizaard said:
Track is still there for much of the route. A heritage society has been keeping the trackbed clear.
Click to expand...

A mass transit system needs to conform to stringent quality standards.. The old track down there, is knackered in the most part ( i used to maintain it in the 80's). It would need complete renewal and new formation, drainage, power, signalling etc..

The 5mill / km I mentioned was a tram extension on an corridor..

If it was a heritage railway, then you can get away with just upgrading and reducing speed etc, but as soon as you call it a mass transit system you need to conform to alssorts of regulation.

Thats why the Blackpool trams, tracks and overhead power had to be updated a few years ago to conform, That cost 100million.
 
jack_bfc said:
A mass transit system needs to conform to stringent quality standards.. The old track down there, is knackered in the most part ( i used to maintain it in the 80's). It would need complete renewal and new formation, drainage, power, signalling etc..

The 5mill / km I mentioned was a tram extension on an corridor..

If it was a heritage railway, then you can get away with just upgrading and reducing speed etc, but as soon as you call it a mass transit system you need to conform to alssorts of regulation.

Thats why the Blackpool trams, tracks and overhead power had to be updated a few years ago to conform, That cost 100million.
Click to expand...
Yes. I'm curious to see where this leaves the Poulton and Wyre railway society. Reopening the line publicly leaves them with nowhere to go really.
 
jack_bfc said:
A mass transit system needs to conform to stringent quality standards.. The old track down there, is knackered in the most part ( i used to maintain it in the 80's). It would need complete renewal and new formation, drainage, power, signalling etc..

The 5mill / km I mentioned was a tram extension on an corridor..

If it was a heritage railway, then you can get away with just upgrading and reducing speed etc, but as soon as you call it a mass transit system you need to conform to alssorts of regulation.

Thats why the Blackpool trams, tracks and overhead power had to be updated a few years ago to conform, That cost 100million.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that, that's what I suspected 👍
 
If the cost is £50 million that's peanuts to central government and will allow them to say 'look, we reversed Beeching - like we said we would' - Doing it with almost any other line closed in the 60s or later would cost at least 10 or 20 times that.

It seems like an easy win for them in terms of a national policy they committed to in last election.
 
They are looking at openeing some of Beechings lines, but they will be based on expected passenger numbers and, i presume, possible revenue..

Not sure fleetwood would qualify but I may be wrong 😉
 
jack_bfc said:
They are looking at openeing some of Beechings lines, but they will be based on expected passenger numbers and, i presume, possible revenue..

Not sure fleetwood would qualify but I may be wrong 😉
Click to expand...
A lot would depend if its done properly with passing places etc, or end up as a 15 mile extended siding like the South Fylde line.
 
Presumably would stop in thornton etc on way through?, but a single line could only operate one train/tram ....so would it just be one vehicle going to and fro? 😎
 
The old line ends between the Eros statue and the next mini roundabout. You can actually see where it ends from the road
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top