Richard Tice and some bloke from the Reform party at today's match..

poolseasider

poolseasider

Well-known member
See they where in the North Stand today with Blackpool scarves on taking selfies.
Saw the best half as they'd fucked off at half time.
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
Mark has probably done more for the poor people in Blackpool than every fucker on this site put together

He's a Blackpool lad who has done a sh!t loads of charity work in the town

No surprise to see the not so liberals having a pop though
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Yet someone apparently told him to f off just for knocking on the door.

Says more about the person to me, doesn't cost anything to be polite to someone you may not agree with politically or tbh don't know anything about.
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
Mark has probably done more for the poor people in Blackpool than every fucker on this site put together

He's a Blackpool lad who has done a sh!t loads of charity work in the town

No surprise to see the not so liberals having a pop though
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I've no doubt in anything Mark/Amazing Graze has achieved, it's two streets over from where I live. I have donated myself to them in the past and I love what they are doing.

What is a shame to see his good name coopted by desperate racists, xenophobes and culture warriors. When Reform win fuck all in this by-election, they will drop him like a hot potato. I sincerely hope he doesn't get caught up too deeply in their bullshit.
 
JJpool said:
Yet someone apparently told him to f off just for knocking on the door.

Says more about the person to me, doesn't cost anything to be polite to someone you may not agree with politically or tbh don't know anything about.
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Yes, that was me.

When some right-wing boomer lunatics arrive, introduce themselves unannounced, I'd rather deal with the problem directly and honestly.

They have nothing to say to me, and I have nothing to say to them, so they can fuck directly off.
 
cside said:
I've no doubt in anything Mark/Amazing Graze has achieved, it's two streets over from where I live. I have donated myself to them in the past and I love what they are doing.

What is a shame to see his good name coopted by desperate racists, xenophobes and culture warriors. When Reform win fuck all in this by-election, they will drop him like a hot potato. I sincerely hope he doesn't get caught up too deeply in their bullshit.
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So let me get this right...you love his work, have donated to his charity, yet when he comes to the door you tell him to fuck off?

Seems a sensible thing to do.

Is there any need for all the silly label nonesense.

As for them not doing anything at the election, no newer party really does under this voting system.

cside said:
Yes, that was me.

When some right-wing boomer lunatics arrive, introduce themselves unannounced, I'd rather deal with the problem directly and honestly.

They have nothing to say to me, and I have nothing to say to them, so they can fuck directly off.
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Seems a bit immature to me.

Some of the attitudes of the tolerant left in full view here sadly, yet people have the cheek to use harmful labels and paint normal people on the right as some kind of nutter for having any genuine concerns over a subject.

Mad.
 
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The polls indicate that at the next General Election they will win 0 seats, but finish 2nd in a few.
 
JJpool said:
So let me get this right...you love his work, have donated to his charity, yet when he comes to the door you tell him to fuck off?

Seems a sensible thing to do.

Is there any need for all the silly label nonesense.

As for them not doing anything at the election, no newer party really does under this voting system.


Seems a bit immature to me.

Some of the attitudes of the tolerant left in full view here sadly, yet people have the cheek to use harmful labels and paint normal people on the right as some kind of nutter for having any genuine concerns over a subject.

Mad.
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No, Mark didn't come to to my door, his canvassers did.

As for your "tolerant left" comment, you have no idea about where my personal politics lie, seems like you made that part up.

For what it's worth, I'll state categorically: I am completely intolerant of rabble-rousing culture warrior racists who only seek to perpetuate their self-serving ideology of division and hatred. Reform are using a local hero for their own ends, which is painful to see as they have no real concern for my neighbours in Blackpool South.

If the opportunity comes up again I will tell them to fuck off again.
 
cside said:
I've no doubt in anything Mark/Amazing Graze has achieved, it's two streets over from where I live. I have donated myself to them in the past and I love what they are doing.

What is a shame to see his good name coopted by desperate racists, xenophobes and culture warriors. When Reform win fuck all in this by-election, they will drop him like a hot potato. I sincerely hope he doesn't get caught up too deeply in their bullshit.
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Why the need for the racist comments?
 
cside said:
No, Mark didn't come to to my door, his canvassers did.

As for your "tolerant left" comment, you have no idea about where my personal politics lie, seems like you made that part up.

For what it's worth, I'll state categorically: I am completely intolerant of rabble-rousing culture warrior racists who only seek to perpetuate their self-serving ideology of division and hatred. Reform are using a local hero for their own ends, which is painful to see as they have no real concern for my neighbours in Blackpool South.

If the opportunity comes up again I will tell them to fuck off again.
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Again what makes you use those words, have you been reading the Guardian or something?

Believe it or not millions of people are sick and tired of the mainstream political parties and Reform are using that to gain support, nothing wrong with that
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
Again what makes you use those words, have you been reading the Guardian or something?

Believe it or not millions of people are sick and tired of the mainstream political parties and Reform are using that to gain support, nothing wrong with that
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There's truth in that, the Tories and Labour offer nothing really which is an ideal environment for populist nonsense to thrive.

Dangerous times.
 
wondered what the smell was. Another public school educated rich and entitled chancer trying to make capital out of poverty and division (and stirring up prejudice). Its this sort of mob brought us brexit, and we know how well that went dont we. so yes they can F**k right off
 
brightontangerine said:
wondered what the smell was. Another public school educated rich and entitled chancer trying to make capital out of poverty and division (and stirring up prejudice). Its this sort of mob brought us brexit, and we know how well that went dont we. so yes they can F**k right off
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What prejudice are you taking about?

Do you have any evidence for your claims?
 
cside said:
No, Mark didn't come to to my door, his canvassers did.

As for your "tolerant left" comment, you have no idea about where my personal politics lie, seems like you made that part up.

For what it's worth, I'll state categorically: I am completely intolerant of rabble-rousing culture warrior racists who only seek to perpetuate their self-serving ideology of division and hatred. Reform are using a local hero for their own ends, which is painful to see as they have no real concern for my neighbours in Blackpool South.

If the opportunity comes up again I will tell them to fuck off again.
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You said the reform guy, Mark is the local reform guy who was with Tice today.

I doubt anyone on the right would be telling them just to f off, it's the sort of intolerance you see from those on the left, who think they are right and anyone with a different view is racist, xenophobes etc.

So now reform get a decent guy and suddenly he's being used, suddenly he's being mislead, if only he'd alter his opinions away from them.

Maybe he actually agrees with them like many do.
 
brightontangerine said:
wondered what the smell was. Another public school educated rich and entitled chancer trying to make capital out of poverty and division (and stirring up prejudice). Its this sort of mob brought us brexit, and we know how well that went dont we. so yes they can F**k right off
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It didn't go as well because we haven't fully capitalised on it due to the Tories not believing in it largely and only doing it to get in power.

We now have or should have complete control of the rules, laws etc and had a chance to completely reshape the country and economy.

Yet immigration still runs at ridiculous levels, you can't blame now having control for that, but those using that the power.

It's like getting complete control of those we can let in the stadium, letting all away fans in and then blaming the rules rather than the people who chose to do it.
 
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JJpool said:
Mark Butcher seems a decent guy, he runs the foodbank amazing grace on Bolton Street along with Pizza Grazie.

👍
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I don’t know much about politics but what I do know is, if Mark is involved it will be for the benefit of normal and genuine people, just like the Amazing Graze.

What he’s done and continues to do without any council support (cos he won’t dance to their tune and play their daft political games) is legendary stuff to be honest.

Get yourself there. It’s a world away from Rishi Sunak helping out at a soup kitchen and asking someone what they do for a living 🤡
 
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Adams Kebab said:
I don’t know much about politics but what I do know is, if Mark is involved it will be for the benefit of normal and genuine people, just like the Amazing Graze.

What he’s done and continues to do without any council support (cos he won’t dance to their tune and play their daft political games) is legendary stuff to be honest.

Get yourself there. It’s a world away from Rishi Sunak helping out at a soup kitchen and asking someone what they do for a living 🤡
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It is on my list to go and try his pizza place and support that, as it's highly rated anyway.

Yeah he seems a good egg, of course now people have to say he's been mislead because they couldn't possibly tolerate him having views in line with Reform.
 
JJpool said:
It is on my list to go and try his pizza place and support that, as it's highly rated anyway.

Yeah he seems a good egg, of course now people have to say he's been mislead because they couldn't possibly tolerate him having views in line with Reform.
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He’s a full on character but he’s someone the man on the street can relate to because he’s got their best interests at heart.

Can’t say that about many of these charlatans in power, if any.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
There's truth in that, the Tories and Labour offer nothing really which is an ideal environment for populist nonsense to thrive.

Dangerous times.
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Amen.

There's a real problem and it has been essentially brewing since the left abandoned economics and become mainly campaigners on social issues. There's nothing wrong with fighting for social justice on the basis of rights and tolerance - but the problem is that doesn't actually address the root cause of economic issues. The social justice fight will appeal greatly to people you might characterise as 'liberals' - i.e. in a stereotype form as moneyed people who believe in 'decency' - it's the idea of a fairer world by law rather than by redistribution and taxation essentially - they're therefore able to vote 'left' to express a value, but without any great impact financially.

It's essentially the notion that we're voiting for people to be 'nicer' or 'less nasty' - that ultimately results in a kind of polarised argument about the essence of people - we're not arguing about free markets vs social democracy or socialism vs capitalism or whatever - but 'niceness vs nastiness' and 'kindness vs meanness' and so on. The argument ceases to structural or intellectual, but basically about looser values.

If you abandon the economic sphere, you end up with a vacuum because essentially, economics are far more important than anything else if you're in multiple millions who are struggling for money to heat, eat and in dire need of social investment.

We are therefore in this horrible place where there's millions of people who look at the main parties and think 'neither of them give a fuck about the real world' and there's a really sad truth in that.

Both the unexpected 2017 popularity of Corbynism and the surprise Brexit vote speak to that. Neither Corbyn nor the Brexit campaign had particularly well argued messages (Corbyn was kind of quite well put together with a terrible front man and Brexit was full of holes but with a slick campaign) but they both promised 'change' and 'disruption of the status quo'

I feel like what we've forgotten about politics is the centre ground isn't a place that exists - it's a place that is formed from dynamic debate between contrasting viewpoints. It shifts according to circumstance. The centre in the 40s/50s was different to the 80s and so on. That change comes from actually working through the situation. What was the 'centre' shifted in about a week when Covid happened and forced some action. Can put a fag paper between Sunak and Starmer. They nick each other policies all the time. Reeves pledging to stick to Tory spending plans, Tories nabbing the non-dom thing and so on. When stuff is palpably not working for you then it doesn't make sense to vote for either person squabbling over who will middle manage the process of stasis the best. It's like voting for which boot you prefer on your face. If you're ok - i.e. I am 'ok' - I'm not rich but I can likely afford my food and my radiators regardless of the gov't then it's easy just to go 'oh, whatever, why are these thickies voting for madness' but if you're not ok, then voting for madness is actually more logical than voting for 'more of the same'

We've ended up with what feels like years and years and years of unimaginative policy and process aimed largely at 'keeping things basically as they are' (with a few obvious exceptions) and to be honest, I blame the pathetic state of the UK left for that as much as anything else. There's also the way the voting system encourages appeal to the key swing demographics - in the 90s it was 'middle england' - now, it's 'old people' (very broadly speaking) and it's really poor. That means places end up voting for people who take some form of interest because it's all very apparent that they're 'not a priority' for the main parties.
 
td53 said:
Amen.

There's a real problem and it has been essentially brewing since the left abandoned economics and become mainly campaigners on social issues. There's nothing wrong with fighting for social justice on the basis of rights and tolerance - but the problem is that doesn't actually address the root cause of economic issues. The social justice fight will appeal greatly to people you might characterise as 'liberals' - i.e. in a stereotype form as moneyed people who believe in 'decency' - it's the idea of a fairer world by law rather than by redistribution and taxation essentially - they're therefore able to vote 'left' to express a value, but without any great impact financially.

It's essentially the notion that we're voiting for people to be 'nicer' or 'less nasty' - that ultimately results in a kind of polarised argument about the essence of people - we're not arguing about free markets vs social democracy or socialism vs capitalism or whatever - but 'niceness vs nastiness' and 'kindness vs meanness' and so on. The argument ceases to structural or intellectual, but basically about looser values.

If you abandon the economic sphere, you end up with a vacuum because essentially, economics are far more important than anything else if you're in multiple millions who are struggling for money to heat, eat and in dire need of social investment.

We are therefore in this horrible place where there's millions of people who look at the main parties and think 'neither of them give a fuck about the real world' and there's a really sad truth in that.

Both the unexpected 2017 popularity of Corbynism and the surprise Brexit vote speak to that. Neither Corbyn nor the Brexit campaign had particularly well argued messages (Corbyn was kind of quite well put together with a terrible front man and Brexit was full of holes but with a slick campaign) but they both promised 'change' and 'disruption of the status quo'

I feel like what we've forgotten about politics is the centre ground isn't a place that exists - it's a place that is formed from dynamic debate between contrasting viewpoints. It shifts according to circumstance. The centre in the 40s/50s was different to the 80s and so on. That change comes from actually working through the situation. What was the 'centre' shifted in about a week when Covid happened and forced some action. Can put a fag paper between Sunak and Starmer. They nick each other policies all the time. Reeves pledging to stick to Tory spending plans, Tories nabbing the non-dom thing and so on. When stuff is palpably not working for you then it doesn't make sense to vote for either person squabbling over who will middle manage the process of stasis the best. It's like voting for which boot you prefer on your face. If you're ok - i.e. I am 'ok' - I'm not rich but I can likely afford my food and my radiators regardless of the gov't then it's easy just to go 'oh, whatever, why are these thickies voting for madness' but if you're not ok, then voting for madness is actually more logical than voting for 'more of the same'

We've ended up with what feels like years and years and years of unimaginative policy and process aimed largely at 'keeping things basically as they are' (with a few obvious exceptions) and to be honest, I blame the pathetic state of the UK left for that as much as anything else. There's also the way the voting system encourages appeal to the key swing demographics - in the 90s it was 'middle england' - now, it's 'old people' (very broadly speaking) and it's really poor. That means places end up voting for people who take some form of interest because it's all very apparent that they're 'not a priority' for the main parties.
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There's also the status quo wanting to maintain the status quo, not the politicians but the actual establishment. I think we're yet to see a GE who's result is any different to what the Murdoch media wanted?

But there's a void and someone is going to occupy it, history tells us that's usually not good...
 
Old_Laytonian said:
Sounds like he should be standing as an Independent. I wish there were more Independent candidates.
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He used to be an independent.

whocanivotefor.co.uk

Blackpool local election: The 6 candidates in Bloomfield

See all 6 candidates in the Blackpool local election on May 4, 2023: Mel Fenlon (Labour Party) Jim Hobson (Labour Party) Mark Butcher (Independent) Graham Cain (Independent) Cody Milnes...
whocanivotefor.co.uk whocanivotefor.co.uk

Not sure why it sounds like he should be though, that seems to be people judging based off what they he should be doing.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
There's also the status quo wanting to maintain the status quo, not the politicians but the actual establishment. I think we're yet to see a GE who's result is any different to what the Murdoch media wanted?

But there's a void and someone is going to occupy it, history tells us that's usually not good...
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At least reform want to bring in PR, a fairer voting system that would mean far more voices are heard and votes actually mattered, if they are in a strong Labour or tories seat its basically meaningless, results wise, to go elsewhere.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
There's also the status quo wanting to maintain the status quo, not the politicians but the actual establishment. I think we're yet to see a GE who's result is any different to what the Murdoch media wanted?

But there's a void and someone is going to occupy it, history tells us that's usually not good...
Click to expand...

Aye. It's shit innit. I remember feeling quite optimistic years back that the 'internet' would create a new paradigm of decentralised media and thoughtful people reflecting on well constructed independent thought, whilst self educating using the infinite resources presented to them - that would lead in time to a new enlightenment and a whole set of new political ideas fit for the world of tomorrow.

How naive that was. 🤣
 
www.facebook.com

Reform UK

Great day campaigning in Blackpool today, ahead of the crucial by-election on May 2nd. 🗳️Vote Reform UK to send Westminster a strong message!
www.facebook.com www.facebook.com
 
td53 said:
Aye. It's shit innit. I remember feeling quite optimistic years back that the 'internet' would create a new paradigm of decentralised media and thoughtful people reflecting on well constructed independent thought, whilst self educating using the infinite resources presented to them - that would lead in time to a new enlightenment and a whole set of new political ideas fit for the world of tomorrow.

How naive that was. 🤣
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Same here, but it's just select echo chambers really.
 
JJpool said:
At least reform want to bring in PR, a fairer voting system that would mean far more voices are heard and votes actually mattered, if they are in a strong Labour or tories seat its basically meaningless, results wise, to go elsewhere.
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But they just want a purer version of the climate that's run the country in to the dirt for the past decade and a half and it's still founded on Blaiklock's detestable ramblings.
 
Butcher has fonecwell with social enterprise-amazing Grace and does campaign for the homeless.
He tries to help those most in need .

I think politically nieve for why would somebody campaigning for the most impoverished and marginalised groups in our community hitch there wagon to very right wing populists who have no interest in the people Mark advocates for ??
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
But they just want a purer version of the climate that's run the country in to the dirt for the past decade and a half and it's still founded on Blaiklock's detestable ramblings.
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Like actually honoring some of the policies the Tories stood and got elected on, stopping the boats, ridiculous levels of immigration etc.

Many would actually chime with many on here... 50% nationalisation of utilities...stopping the release of sewage into rivers and seas.


You can see their priorities on this pic, including lifting paying tax to 20k I think it is.

1000011640.jpg
 
Bisphamtang said:
Butcher has fonecwell with social enterprise-amazing Grace and does campaign for the homeless.
He tries to help those most in need .

I think politically nieve for why would somebody campaigning for the most impoverished and marginalised groups in our community hitch there wagon to very right wing populists who have no interest in the people Mark advocates for ??
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Who says they have no interest, he's not stupid, he's read the contract aka manifesto and agrees with it.

Let's not forget he sees immigrants being housed in hotels at great expense yet local people left for dead effectively.

There's much in there to lift people out of the cost of living crisis, savings made from not housing silly levels of illegals etc.

Cheaper energy.

Much higher tax threshold.

Those alone will help massively.

Also not pumping sewage into the sea probably resonates as a local.

Tough on crime so it's not as easy to fall into crime and drugs.

Their veteran support, as many on the streets can often be veterans.

In a proper functioning society what mark does with his charity shouldn't be as needed as it is.
 
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