Matesrates
Well-known member
At 4.30 today, expected to delay banning petrol and diesel cars beyond 2030; also changing timescales on boilers:
Rishi making statement
- Thread starter Matesrates
- Start date
Always tangerine
Well-known member
Political suicide ( though I guess some wont agree).
tangysider
Well-known member
Thought he spoke well and comparison with China and US was telling
What did he say about America? I ask out of interest because the USA passed the biggest green energy bill in history last year and has leaped ahead of much of Europe in the green industrial revolution, to the extent even deep republican places like Texas now have massive investment in battery storage systems as they transition to renewables
tangerine_neil
Well-known member
Could do with some common sense over these unworkable policies
Am not a fan or a Tory (in fact I'm currently in a political wilderness) - but in fairness have just watched his press conference and was quite impressed. At least there was detail in what he said unlike Starmer who just seems to be full of bluster.
I desperately hope Starmer has to stand down before the election and they have a decent person in the wings ready to come through as I can genuinely see by this time next year that 20 point gap being a 5 point gap and we're going to end up (again) with some sort of horrible hung parliament.
tangysider
Well-known member
Basically
Our reduction in carbon emissions was 50%
America no progress, China increased by 300%
All these initiatives, need infrastructure and we, are at the point where new wind farms cannot be added to grid.
Heat pumps will work for some properties but not all.
Electric cars charging is not always, available, charge points broken or in use a close friend leased an electric car for 2 years and was worried about trips outside North West.
We are still in line with global time frames on 2035 in line with other countries for electric car sales on what is, a global business.
America is on track to reduce carbon emissions from between 35-43% by 2030 from their peak, so I struggle to see where 'no progress' comes from. The UK has done well but this has taken a turn for the worse with the Government's own advisory body now saying we are missing nearly every target. I will give him the issues with the grid connectivity which urgently needs modernising and he was right to point that out. Now go and do it.
Overall, as you have described it, it sounds as if his speech basically says we are doing too well at the thing most of the British public wants us to do well at so now we are stopping to let other countries overtake us. Which seems an odd policy.
tangysider
Well-known member
The US target is 35 to 40% as you stated
The UK target is 68% by 2035.
I think the costs of bringing infrastructures in line needed factoring in and had not been.
He stated the last Parliament debate on emission targets lasted 17 minutes, so maybe it was just an uncosted wishlist..
Probs not vote conservative next time but he, spoke well and made sense
It's not a target, it's what they are on course to achieve. There are reports hundreds/thousands of pages long that are published pretty much quaterly on all aspects on the UK's net zero ambition, to insinuate it is something as ill-thought out as a 17 minute debate is a wild mischaracterisation.
Tangerinemoss
Well-known member
Business needs stability to ensure investment. Car Manufacturers and electric charging equipment and installation manufacturers have committed massive sums on the basis of Government policy, as per the Conservative manifesto at the last election.
I thought the Tories liked to think they were the Party for business?
And as for that comment above about ULEZ, are you unaware that it was implemented by Boris, and the Government was giving Sadiq Khan grief about not moving fast enough within the last year? Does the truth no longer matter?
I thought the Tories liked to think they were the Party for business?
And as for that comment above about ULEZ, are you unaware that it was implemented by Boris, and the Government was giving Sadiq Khan grief about not moving fast enough within the last year? Does the truth no longer matter?
tangysider
Well-known member
I would like to see the costings in these detailed pages, the fact the infrastructure is nowhere near adequate suggests it was booted down the road.
What happened to hydrogen cars which were being talked about as a, preferred option not that long ago.
Anyway my current pet hate is United utilities pollution record which is outrageous
Hydrogen has never been a significant part of the UK's net zero future, it has always been predicated on a 100% electrified energy supply with electric vehicles. I would advise perusing the documentation, just google UK government net zero policies. You will find endless amounts of information on their policies. Much more useful than a 5 minute speech of slogans.
1966_and_all_that
Well-known member
No. The truth is irrelevant. All that matters is to get enough of the electorate to believe in you on election day. Other than that, do what you want, how you want and say things that people want to hear.
*Boris mode off*
Tangerinemoss
Well-known member
This is what the UK public voted for at the last GE. Rather blows Sunak's argument about not being supported by the British Public
tangerine_neil
Well-known member
A few questions;
How many brand new power stations will it take if we all changed to electric vehicles?
When will these power stations be fully operational?
What will the power stations use for energy?
Can the National Grid cope with the charging demands at peak times, e.g. after work?
What’s the charging plan for people with no driveways?
Where will the precious minerals needed for the batteries come from?
Hydrogen is the way we should be going in the U.K., imo.
But then I don’t really get the obsession with wind energy whilst ignoring the more efficient tidal energy sources.
How many brand new power stations will it take if we all changed to electric vehicles?
When will these power stations be fully operational?
What will the power stations use for energy?
Can the National Grid cope with the charging demands at peak times, e.g. after work?
What’s the charging plan for people with no driveways?
Where will the precious minerals needed for the batteries come from?
Hydrogen is the way we should be going in the U.K., imo.
But then I don’t really get the obsession with wind energy whilst ignoring the more efficient tidal energy sources.
Matesrates
Well-known member
And then there’s disposal of batteries at the end of their life
Old_Laytonian
Well-known member
" The Lady's not for turning"
She will be in her grave
She will be in her grave
Schalke_FY4
Well-known member
Personally blame whoever the Chancellor was at the time the Tories made this pledge....oh hang on!!!
Always tangerine
Well-known member
Surprised that some were impressed by his weak, unconvincing statement. He is very weak and has no principles and conviction re environmental issues.
Should have been announced while Parliament was sitting to face a proper debate.
The general feeling is that we are unlikely to be able to achieve our legally binding commitments to policies towards net zero in the timeframe we committed to .
Has not got down well with much of his own party. Channel 4 just reported on a specially commisioned survey of voters which indicated these proposals hadnt been well received by a majority of those sampled. The car industry and other companies that were planning for the changes on the existing timetable are not at all pleased with the apparent rowing backwards on what they thought was agreed. A dynamic approach would see green oriented policies as having potential for economic growth and new jobs.
Sunak is framing our commitments to acheiving net zero as being detrimental to peoples struggles with the cost of living , instead of looking with optimism at how they can help our economy and people and create new jobs.
And what is this about resisting proposals to ban meat eating or compulsory sharing of cars ? Since when were these actual proposals?
Desperate stuff from a weak man.
Should have been announced while Parliament was sitting to face a proper debate.
The general feeling is that we are unlikely to be able to achieve our legally binding commitments to policies towards net zero in the timeframe we committed to .
Has not got down well with much of his own party. Channel 4 just reported on a specially commisioned survey of voters which indicated these proposals hadnt been well received by a majority of those sampled. The car industry and other companies that were planning for the changes on the existing timetable are not at all pleased with the apparent rowing backwards on what they thought was agreed. A dynamic approach would see green oriented policies as having potential for economic growth and new jobs.
Sunak is framing our commitments to acheiving net zero as being detrimental to peoples struggles with the cost of living , instead of looking with optimism at how they can help our economy and people and create new jobs.
And what is this about resisting proposals to ban meat eating or compulsory sharing of cars ? Since when were these actual proposals?
Desperate stuff from a weak man.
Lost Seasider
Well-known member
Rough numbers
20,000,000 vehicles at 100kwh = 2BN kWh, AKA 2 twh or more usefully 2,000 gwh.
Or to put it another way, roughly 3 - 4 days of current production, assuming we didn't want to waste it on something trivial like heating our homes or cooking food etc.
Rough, or basically bullshit, numbers.
Wizaard
Well-known member
That unworkable we were world leaders in the technology until this load of self interested bastards with massive personal interest in oil and gas stalled on it all.
tangerine_neil
Well-known member
Yep. Nearly mentioned that but didn’t want to be deliberately picky / anti-electric car
There basically isn’t the infrastructure for recycling and for a very expensive item, the 2nd hand market is really poor.
tangerine_neil
Well-known member
It’s more about the timescales to make it happen, hence the extension.
Someone probably pointed out the lead in time for all these extra power stations etc.
Costero Poderoso
Well-known member
All good questions for which there are some answers but not from government
Lost Seasider
Well-known member
Supply your numbers please.
Costero Poderoso
Well-known member
The thing that amazes me is that nobody not even the green lobbyists understand or explain the costs of net zero are not actually costs, it is predominantly productive economic activity, that could be used to build wealth across the nation.
Ok, just dont complain that it involves reading.
"The Climate Change Committee’s Sixth Carbon Budget Report (2021) estimated that electric cars and vans could increase electricity demand by around 30 terawatt-hours (TWh) by 2030, and 65-100TWh by 2050. This compares to a system-wide electricity demand of 300TWh today (projected to increase to 600-900 TWh by 2050). " https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-7480/
The Catcher in the Rye
Well-known member
I’ve had a lot of criticism for this government but Rishi spoke a lot of common sense today. Cant see it being enough to win the next election, not even close but Labour won’t reverse these policies, they are vote winning
Gods honest truth
Well-known member
Last winter and this winter energy companies are paying consumers not to use electricity during peak hours 4 to 7 pm because they can’t produce enough electricity when demand is high.
It takes about 20 + years to build a new power station that’s why he slowing the change to EV cars and heat pumps.
1966_and_all_that
Well-known member
Sunak brings the disingenuousness and lies of Johnson into an altogether more dangerous, more polished, package. Hidden behind a veneer of apparent respectability … of affected reasonableness and moderation …. of seeming earnest application, is an appalling character who lies, dissembles and smears without compunction. All in pursuit of a myopic, dead-end, right wing, I’m-alright-Jack agenda that is simply out of time.
Wizaard
Well-known member
Could it be because they've done sod all to make it happen? Time has been wasted through inaction because of 'lobbying' from the fossil fuel industry.
Macseasider
Well-known member
I cannot stand Sunak but he's right. Whichever of his predecessors made the promises were in cuckoo land. Oh yeah it was Boris
southshorepool
Well-known member
He invented policies that didn't exist ( 7 different bins/ scrapping meat/ compulsory car sharing) and then said he's scrapping them. He's like our rivers, full of shit.
This has got fuck all to do with family finances. He's after starting another culture war over climate for what he hopes is electoral gain.
This has got fuck all to do with family finances. He's after starting another culture war over climate for what he hopes is electoral gain.
ElBurroSinNombre
Well-known member
Short sighted and rather desperate policy making on the hoof from Sunak with no regard for future generations.
He is also in trouble with the speaker again for not announcing this in the HoC, again displaying contempt for our democracy and its established processes.
To Sunak this is a new front in the culture wars, however many in business are unhappy about this u-turn and also many in his own party are upset and angry.
Part of the reason for the 2030 deadline for car production was to steal a march on the EU who have a 2035 deadline, the rationale being that the earlier deadline would attract inward investment - so much for that.
It all stinks of desperation and as SSP mentions, he is just making stuff up that will appeal to prejudice.
It's shameful when you consider what is at stake.
He is also in trouble with the speaker again for not announcing this in the HoC, again displaying contempt for our democracy and its established processes.
To Sunak this is a new front in the culture wars, however many in business are unhappy about this u-turn and also many in his own party are upset and angry.
Part of the reason for the 2030 deadline for car production was to steal a march on the EU who have a 2035 deadline, the rationale being that the earlier deadline would attract inward investment - so much for that.
It all stinks of desperation and as SSP mentions, he is just making stuff up that will appeal to prejudice.
It's shameful when you consider what is at stake.
braymarina
Well-known member
More fool anyone who voted for the world's biggest liar on the basis of these promises.
Spot on!
It's funny that he is trying to fight this culture war thing and appeal to the nutters who think there should be a revolution because they have to use a heat pump instead of a boiler but he can't exactly really lean into it because after all he is just delaying it by a few years, he is still effectively saying all these things will still happen. He is still maintaining his commitment to net zero. As ever, the man is completely pointless.
Had to smile at Kemi Badenoch`s glib dismissal of Zac Goldsmith`s criticism of Sunak`s u-turn, on the basis Goldsmith is "somebody who has more money than all of the UK"!
Too wealthy to have a valid opinion then, Kemi?
Does she not know that Rishi 7 Bins has a bob or two?
Blue on blue class warfare; not the culture war they were looking for I suspect...
Too wealthy to have a valid opinion then, Kemi?
Does she not know that Rishi 7 Bins has a bob or two?
Blue on blue class warfare; not the culture war they were looking for I suspect...
1966_and_all_that
Well-known member
Then again, he may just be under instruction from Viscount Rothermere, the owner of the Tories' in-house rag.
ElBurroSinNombre
Well-known member
It's also weird to think that he effectively is saying that having a better insulated, more efficient and greener home is a bad thing.
The newsagents podcast (Sopel, Maitlis) think that trying to fight an election using the environment as a culture war will actually be good for the opposition parties. Apart from the moral argument, it all stinks of desperation, many Torie voters are against this.
Who doesn't want a greener, sustainable future for our children?
The newsagents podcast (Sopel, Maitlis) think that trying to fight an election using the environment as a culture war will actually be good for the opposition parties. Apart from the moral argument, it all stinks of desperation, many Torie voters are against this.
Who doesn't want a greener, sustainable future for our children?
The idea this is saving struggling Brits save money is a farce. The average new car costs 30k+, if you are buying new rather than second hand you are not struggling. They are also scrapping the minimum efficiency requirements of households, meaning landlords can keep their money and their renters have to keep footing the bill for higher energy costs.
Right, at the end of the day most sensible people don't see a culture war. They want cleaner energy, they know it's cheaper than fossil fuels, they know it can be British owned and help our energy independence. Vast majority support efforts to insulate homes and make other efficiency improvements because why wouldn't you. Its just sensible. The green energy revolution is happening and it's not even worth arguing with the naysayers, they are just wrong and will continue to be wrong. The big private investment is going into wind and solar and battery technology. Even EON released a statement criticising Sunak for this. A capitalist energy giant, not some leftist student union. The naysayers and climate change deniers have already lost. Let them keep crying into their cornflakes as our renewable share of energy output keeps going up and up. The starting pistol was fired years ago. If Texas is investing massively into battery technology and solar power, that tells you all you need to know.
Matesrates
Well-known member
Just to be clea, you don’t like him then?