Rishi Sunak....

Killingmesoftly

Killingmesoftly

Well-known member
Doesn’t look good for us self employed, thinks we’re all minted and looking at previous tax returns is no guide to what peoples average earnings..? Basically he’s done all his money in and there’s nowt left....today from guardian online..
Sunak replied:
Looking at historic tax return data from a year-and-a-half ago gives absolutely no guide to whether someone today who is self-employed is in the situation that they are prosperous and indeed their income may be increasing versus someone who is not.
Of course I am sympathetic to those who are adversely affected by what is going on. is The issue is one of finding a way to target help at those, rather than having something that provides blanket cash subsidies to 5 million people, many of whom will not need it and will end up costing all of our constituents on modest incomes a considerable amount to pay.
So it’s about finding a way to target support on those who most need it and that is what is requiring time and thought.
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Nothing to stop them going back over a few years for an average then allow some form of help . All the payment info will be on the system to collate with future returns.
 
But tax returns are only s good as the information supplied, I imagine that quite a few SE people are creative in the income they actually declare to the tax man?
my brother drove a taxi for many years and his accountant told him to declare n income of £250 a week, he often earned much more.
 
Steamgun said:
Nothing to stop them going back over a few years for an average then allow some form of help . All the payment info will be on the system to collate with future returns.
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That's the way HMRC used to assess entertainers & "creatives" (they may still do).
Seems a fair way to treat self employeds who might have fluctuating income over several years.
 
Victorsponge said:
But tax returns are only s good as the information supplied, I imagine that quite a few SE people are creative in the income they actually declare to the tax man?
my brother drove a taxi for many years and his accountant told him to declare n income of £250 a week, he often earned much more.
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Used to be the case Victor but their are millions out there who work for companies and are self employed where there is no fiddle.
As to your brother only putting 250 he was lucky not to get caught they always catch up with them eventually and if he was declaring that today he would only be able to claim 80% of that if it was the same rules for the those employed.
 
Victorsponge said:
Ahh \I wasn't thinking of the contractor type self employed PS,
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Over 5 million Self employed working in everything from IT to doing deliveries for Amazon(which won't be affected) or your Pizza it is so varied nowadays not just your typical Cab driver or Plumber.
They all need help not just the 93 quid a week that's was announced.
 
Killingmesoftly said:
Doesn’t look good for us self employed, thinks we’re all minted and looking at previous tax returns is no guide to what peoples average earnings..? Basically he’s done all his money in and there’s nowt left....today from guardian online..
Sunak replied:
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If it doesnt reflect your average earnings its because you get cash in hand and dont declare it to HMRC, you cant have it both ways
 
ainscow73 said:
If it doesnt reflect your average earnings its because you get cash in hand and dont declare it to HMRC, you cant have it both ways
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You have read it wrong ainscow Rishi says that looking into our previous tax returns is no guide to what people average earning are.
How is that so I pay thousands every year and dead easy to see what I've been earning nothing to do with cash in hand which for the majority is a myth.
 
ainscow73 said:
If it doesnt reflect your average earnings its because you get cash in hand and dont declare it to HMRC, you cant have it both ways
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I do declare my earnings and pay fair bit of tax and national insurance, I’d be happy to have my last 3 years profit averaged and then given 80% whilst we are all supposed to lock down, in line with salaried workers, is that not fair..?
if people earn cash and don’t declare it, they wouldn’t be able to claim 80% of it would they...? No one wants it both ways....
 
Killingmesoftly said:
I do declare my earnings and pay fair bit of tax and national insurance, I’d be happy to have my last 3 years profit averaged and then given 80% whilst we are all supposed to lock down, in line with salaried workers, is that not fair..?
if people earn cash and don’t declare it, they wouldn’t be able to claim 80% of it would they...? No one wants it both ways....
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Sorry if I am missing something but I thought that the amount of tax you pay is dependant on what you have declared having earnt in the previous tax year so therefore if you are paid 80 % of that figure how is that any different to how anyone else is being treated. And please dont tell me that all cash in hand is declared because I know it isnt. I dont have a problem with that but it is reality.
 
ainscow73 said:
Sorry if I am missing something but I thought that the amount of tax you pay is dependant on what you have declared having earnt in the previous tax year so therefore if you are paid 80 % of that figure how is that any different to how anyone else is being treated. And please dont tell me that all cash in hand is declared because I know it isnt. I dont have a problem with that but it is reality.
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The government aren’t offering 80% , at this moment in time there offering ssp £94.25 per week, self employed people surely should be entitled to the same as everyone else which is 80% ...
 
ainscow73 said:
Sorry if I am missing something but I thought that the amount of tax you pay is dependant on what you have declared having earnt in the previous tax year so therefore if you are paid 80 % of that figure how is that any different to how anyone else is being treated. And please dont tell me that all cash in hand is declared because I know it isnt. I dont have a problem with that but it is reality.
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Read the o/p the Self Employed haven't been promised 80% of anything just 93 quid a week.
 
I'm in a very sticky situation, I'm self employed but only since November when I started my new job so haven't done a tax return yet. The company I work for closed down indefinitely last week so no idea if/when I will be able to go back.

Terrible timing for me with the other half being 6 months pregnant, can see me only being entitled to SSP.
 
HighfieldSeasider said:
I'm in a very sticky situation, I'm self employed but only since November when I started my new job so haven't done a tax return yet. The company I work for closed down indefinitely last week so no idea if/when I will be able to go back.

Terrible timing for me with the other half being 6 months pregnant, can see me only being entitled to SSP.
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Some appalling generalisations on this thread and the self employed are being treated equally appallingly. The cash economy is by and large fed by paye people wanting a job done cheaper,and taking advantage of the austerity situation in the country.

Blackpool is rife with cash only traders operating,but many self employed understand the need to contribute to fund hospitals and schools and do so without a second thought.

It's an absolute disgrace that the government haven't acted on this and there'll be people having to work because of it.
 
Plumbs - Call me a cynic but I am thinking that some self employed tradesman don't declare some revenues to avoid having to pay tax.

I don't have a problem with that but spare me the blaming of PAYE customers who want cheaper jobs, you are not obliged to accept cash in hand for jobs.
 
State pension should be reduced to 80% or less snd those drawing personal pension should receive none and go back to work or claim benefit and give the country something back.
 
Jefflynnessongsheet said:
As people can now take a mortgage holiday isn't the simple answer to pay self employed £1,000 a month. This should be plenty for them to pay their bills monthly and put food on the table for their families and at the same time not paying wild amounts to people.
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Because plenty of people in part time work won't be on a £1000
 
todayistheday said:
State pension should be reduced to 80% or less snd those drawing personal pension should receive none and go back to work or claim benefit and give the country something back.
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Give something back? You do realise that people with private pensions actually worked and paid income tax for 40 years?
Christ some people are so thick
 
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Killingmesoftly said:
The government aren’t offering 80% , at this moment in time there offering ssp £94.25 per week, self employed people surely should be entitled to the same as everyone else which is 80% ...
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I do apologise if I have got this wrong but I wasnt aware that the self employed were only getting SSP. I took the O/P as a complaint that because he probably earnt more money 3 years ago that they should take that as an average not his last. That just sounds like he declared more cash jobs back then than he does now. Are am I a cynic
 
ainscow73 said:
I do apologise if I have got this wrong but I wasnt aware that the self employed were only getting SSP. I took the O/P as a complaint that because he probably earnt more money 3 years ago that they should take that as an average not his last. That just sounds like he declared more cash jobs back then than he does now. Are am I a cynic
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Right.... we’re talking about using the last 3 years tax return to work out an average for the 3 years... not cherry picking a good year.... 🤣 😷
 
todayistheday said:
State pension should be reduced to 80% or less snd those drawing personal pension should receive none and go back to work or claim benefit and give the country something back.
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You really are a complete
....
as for giving the country back something perhaps you could enlighten us all as to what contribution you’ve been making to society in your lifetime...as I said before you are nothing more than an attention seeking WUM....and the answer is likely to be nothing.
 
How does it work if you have been paying yourself just under the minimum wage to avoid paying Tax and NI ? Directors dividends are your form of dodging The tax man, wha5 are you entitled to when you have already had the cream ? Just a thought. P.S. I am aware not all self employed people fall under this umbrella, ( pardon the pun ).
 
Sounds like they are talking about the elderly today,first to want,first to get. We should be suspending their pensions to help the future generations. Initially 5 years and then review every five years. Put something back.
 
Scaramanga said:
How does it work if you have been paying yourself just under the minimum wage to avoid paying Tax and NI ? Directors dividends are your form of dodging The tax man, wha5 are you entitled to when you have already had the cream ? Just a thought. P.S. I am aware not all self employed people fall under this umbrella, ( pardon the pun ).
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I think your referring to barristers etc forming ltd companies where they have 28% tax ceiling......who charge fortunes...
I’m talking about the joiners, decorators, plumbers, plasterers, window cleaners etc, who make a reasonable day rate....
 
No not necessarily, this is something I did in the past quite recently and I’m no barrister, I’m a tradesman, it doesn’t just apply to rich barristers.
 
todayistheday said:
State pension should be reduced to 80% or less snd those drawing personal pension should receive none and go back to work or claim benefit and give the country something back.
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Do you know how much the state pension is? Mine will be £8072 per year from April.
 
todayistheday said:
Sounds like they are talking about the elderly today,first to want,first to get. We should be suspending their pensions to help the future generations. Initially 5 years and then review every five years. Put something back.
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Do you know what suspending means? I know you are only WUMing but even so you might be lucky and get to retirement, but no guarantees.
 
The problem with self employed is they are unaccountable. I know this because I was self employed for years and years and managed to fiddle every loophole going. Whilst everyone else is paying huge NI contributions etc (when I went staff my money went down by 25%) I actually think a roots and branch change is needed to the way that the self employed pay in for situations like this.
 
ainscow73 said:
I do apologise if I have got this wrong but I wasnt aware that the self employed were only getting SSP. I took the O/P as a complaint that because he probably earnt more money 3 years ago that they should take that as an average not his last. That just sounds like he declared more cash jobs back then than he does now. Are am I a cynic
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Vast majority of self employed will also get 80%
 
The Treasury will be bracing for the estimates coming in as we speak ("and then there's your labour....").....😀
 
Maths said:
The problem with self employed is they are unaccountable. I know this because I was self employed for years and years and managed to fiddle every loophole going. Whilst everyone else is paying huge NI contributions etc (when I went staff my money went down by 25%) I actually think a roots and branch change is needed to the way that the self employed pay in for situations like this.
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I think today will make that happen. Traditionally s/e felt hard done to when it came to claiming benefits but they'd had the benefit of paying far less in than the equivalent PAYE amount and the opportunity to massage the figures. Obviously that doesn't apply to all, but it takes literally billions out of the Exchequer that others are contributing to.
 
Self-employed pay 9% compared to 12% to those in employment so 3 quid in a 100 difference and we have never been able before tonight able to claim a tap so can we gets rid of the myth that we don't contribute.
 
Ok so now we can see what’s on offer etc...
My tax returns are all done 2016/17 2017/18 2018/19, all tax owed paid, all class 2 & 4 paid upto date, nothing owing...
I could literary work out my average over 3 years times 80% in 2 minutes....
Great .......so why do we need to wait till June to get it...?
 
Killingmesoftly said:
Ok so now we can see what’s on offer etc...
My tax returns are all done 2016/17 2017/18 2018/19, all tax owed paid, all class 2 & 4 paid upto date, nothing owing...
I could literary work out my average over 3 years times 80% in 2 minutes....
Great .......so why do we need to wait till June to get it...?
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I'm exactly the same but I'm led to believe HMRC are going to contact us not the other way around so 3.5 million is going to take a bit of time to set up.
 
I'm self employed and to be honest don't make a great deal but that's the luck of the draw. My business is closed for the foreseeable future and although I should get something I'll need to find something else.
A couple of customers of mine bought franchise business's in the last 12 months so doubt they have put a return in and even if they have I can't see them showing a profit, more than likely a loss.
Only option for them is Universal Credit (that's if their eligible)
We need to get this virus beaten asap and get back to work - keep away from each other folks 💪
 
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