Rough sleeping is a lifestyle choice

Matesrates said:
So says Suella Bravaman, plus she also intends to make it illegal for rough sleepers to sleep in tents.

The tories really are trying very hard to lose the next election
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Fair enough.

They can sleep in the open air during the winter months and die of hypothermia.

And if they're old, then according to the Lying Bastard they can die anyway. They're just parasites on society.

I'm surprised Cruella hasn't thought of making the asylum seekers sleeping the deck of her barge . The fresh air will do them good.
 

Rough sleeping is a lifestyle choice - Politics aside, for some it is. Spoke to several over the years and they have loving parents/partners, but decided to leave for whatever reason. Their decision so she is quite right.​


...and the other side of the coin is that there is a lot of them who are genuinely 'homeless'
 
glasshalffull said:
I think you are very wrong.
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From a politically selfish perspective I would see a Braverman-led Conservative Party fumbling about in the margins , a positive thing. It was just the same for the Tories when Corbyn's leadership was taking Labour to the edges of oblivion. That said, the idea that a centre-right, mainstream party could elect such a person to be their leader would, in fact, be a cause for concern.
 
Bend it like Suddick said:

Rough sleeping is a lifestyle choice - Politics aside, for some it is. Spoke to several over the years and they have loving parents/partners, but decided to leave for whatever reason. Their decision so she is quite right.​


...and the other side of the coin is that there is a lot of them who are genuinely 'homeless'
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Nothing to so with Tory policies slashing the ability of councils to tackle the issue.

They've also said veterans shouldn't get support when homeless as they are highly trained to live rough and survive.

Staggering lack of empathy
 
1966_and_all_that said:
From a politically selfish perspective I would see a Braverman-led Conservative Party fumbling about in the margins , a positive thing. It was just the same for the Tories when Corbyn's leadership was taking Labour to the edges of oblivion. That said, the idea that a centre-right, mainstream party could elect such a person to be their leader would, in fact, be a cause for concern.
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I really don't think the Tory party is anything close to being centre right. The centrist leaders they have had, Major, Cameron were always trying to protect their position in a party that, naturally tends towards elitism, various forms of bigotry and pursuit of power for the sake of having power.
 
It’s much easier to use empty words like zero tolerance & pretend to brush them aside, rather than put things in place to tackle the root causes.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
From a politically selfish perspective I would see a Braverman-led Conservative Party fumbling about in the margins , a positive thing. It was just the same for the Tories when Corbyn's leadership was taking Labour to the edges of oblivion. That said, the idea that a centre-right, mainstream party could elect such a person to be their leader would, in fact, be a cause for concern.
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It would also normalise the sort of shite she comes out with by having someone like her as the leader of a major political party like the Conservatives. I don’t want to see that happen in this country, and she might become PM.
Corbyn nearly did in 2017. One crisis of some sort and she could be there.
 
I know that in the Fylde there was a scheme put in place to help homeless people to get off the street, providing bonds for
deposits and getting them accommodation. But the reality is that a lot of people who are homeless have mental health issues and
addiction problems. Simply getting them somewhere to live is just the start. There is also the problem of begging, the homeless tend to
convert around town centres as obviously there are more people passing and so obviously more potential to get money given.

We really need to have a strategy and plan in place for the homeless, especially as we move to society because of AI that
doesn't work and we will all get a government allowance to live on. Simply punishing people like the government suggests
it is just inhumane.
 
Danny Ocean said:
I know that in the Fylde there was a scheme put in place to help homeless people to get off the street, providing bonds for
deposits and getting them accommodation. But the reality is that a lot of people who are homeless have mental health issues and
addiction problems. Simply getting them somewhere to live is just the start. There is also the problem of begging, the homeless tend to
convert around town centres as obviously there are more people passing and so obviously more potential to get money given.

We really need to have a strategy and plan in place for the homeless, especially as we move to society because of AI that
doesn't work and we will all get a government allowance to live on. Simply punishing people like the government suggests
it is just inhumane.
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I'm sorry but you're wrong, as the Home Secretary has said it's a lifestyle choice.

Unbelievable
 
I have experience from the charity side of this.

Firstly, homelessness can be tackled; it requires a lot of will and it's really, really difficult.

The people who sleep rough by and large - have mental health problems (chronic and acute), have an addiction problem, have been involved in the criminal justice system and are generally very poorly.

They are also angry and upset.

They can also make terrible tenants because of all the issues above.

The question is why are they like that.

Mostly, they've fallen on hard times and it could be any one of us. Whenever I speak to our homeless community in Hartlepool, it reminds me of how one episode, one missed benefit appointment, losing a job, taking recreational drugs and chasing the auction can precipitate a download spiral in short order.

Moreover, once homeless, it's difficult to resolve any of those things because services look at one individual thing at a time.

So mental health services will not work with someone with an addiction and the addiction services will not work with someone with a mental health problem.

Honestly, it's possibly the only group of our community who cannot be allowed to present with more than one condition at once.

And anyone coming out of prison is treated appallingly.

We have a system that continues to punish people after they have served their time and ultimately creates the conditions where re-offending is almost inevitable. There is no space for forgiveness or for redemption and it's completely unfair and, without sounding callous, I'm offended as a tax payer - it is an absolutely shocking waste of money.

In the time I have been working with our homeless community, there has only been one person who I would agree and say it's a lifestyle choice and it's only because he couldn't cope after being homeless for so long.

And if the Home Secretary wants to take me to court for giving tents and sleeping bags and wind up radio's and torches to people who are not being housed, then to be perfectly honest, I'll take my chances in court.

And one little anecdote; amongst many.

Craig, a man who lost his legs due to substance abuse, couldn't be housed because the council said they didn't have the appropriate accommodation which wouldn't breach the Disability Discrimination Act. So he pitched a donated tent at the back of Aldi as that was the best option.

One year later, he caught sepsis and died.

In that time, only the organisation I worked for went out to see him and to push for him to get a house.

Sadly, all it means is one less problem, he's one less person on the housing list and that's not acceptable - but that's the reality of "lifestyle choice"
 
TSSeasider said:
I have experience from the charity side of this.

Firstly, homelessness can be tackled; it requires a lot of will and it's really, really difficult.

The people who sleep rough by and large - have mental health problems (chronic and acute), have an addiction problem, have been involved in the criminal justice system and are generally very poorly.

They are also angry and upset.

They can also make terrible tenants because of all the issues above.

The question is why are they like that.

Mostly, they've fallen on hard times and it could be any one of us. Whenever I speak to our homeless community in Hartlepool, it reminds me of how one episode, one missed benefit appointment, losing a job, taking recreational drugs and chasing the auction can precipitate a download spiral in short order.

Moreover, once homeless, it's difficult to resolve any of those things because services look at one individual thing at a time.

So mental health services will not work with someone with an addiction and the addiction services will not work with someone with a mental health problem.

Honestly, it's possibly the only group of our community who cannot be allowed to present with more than one condition at once.

And anyone coming out of prison is treated appallingly.

We have a system that continues to punish people after they have served their time and ultimately creates the conditions where re-offending is almost inevitable. There is no space for forgiveness or for redemption and it's completely unfair and, without sounding callous, I'm offended as a tax payer - it is an absolutely shocking waste of money.

In the time I have been working with our homeless community, there has only been one person who I would agree and say it's a lifestyle choice and it's only because he couldn't cope after being homeless for so long.

And if the Home Secretary wants to take me to court for giving tents and sleeping bags and wind up radio's and torches to people who are not being housed, then to be perfectly honest, I'll take my chances in court.

And one little anecdote; amongst many.

Craig, a man who lost his legs due to substance abuse, couldn't be housed because the council said they didn't have the appropriate accommodation which wouldn't breach the Disability Discrimination Act. So he pitched a donated tent at the back of Aldi as that was the best option.

One year later, he caught sepsis and died.

In that time, only the organisation I worked for went out to see him and to push for him to get a house.

Sadly, all it means is one less problem, he's one less person on the housing list and that's not acceptable - but that's the reality of "lifestyle choice"
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It points to a basic lack of humanistic response from governments and even the charities that are set up to assist. Its all done from the perspective of keeping the entities and the system functioning in a very specific manner.

The experiences that you describe don't even surprise me.
 
TSSeasider said:
I have experience from the charity side of this.

Firstly, homelessness can be tackled; it requires a lot of will and it's really, really difficult.

The people who sleep rough by and large - have mental health problems (chronic and acute), have an addiction problem, have been involved in the criminal justice system and are generally very poorly.

They are also angry and upset.

They can also make terrible tenants because of all the issues above.

The question is why are they like that.

Mostly, they've fallen on hard times and it could be any one of us. Whenever I speak to our homeless community in Hartlepool, it reminds me of how one episode, one missed benefit appointment, losing a job, taking recreational drugs and chasing the auction can precipitate a download spiral in short order.

Moreover, once homeless, it's difficult to resolve any of those things because services look at one individual thing at a time.

So mental health services will not work with someone with an addiction and the addiction services will not work with someone with a mental health problem.

Honestly, it's possibly the only group of our community who cannot be allowed to present with more than one condition at once.

And anyone coming out of prison is treated appallingly.

We have a system that continues to punish people after they have served their time and ultimately creates the conditions where re-offending is almost inevitable. There is no space for forgiveness or for redemption and it's completely unfair and, without sounding callous, I'm offended as a tax payer - it is an absolutely shocking waste of money.

In the time I have been working with our homeless community, there has only been one person who I would agree and say it's a lifestyle choice and it's only because he couldn't cope after being homeless for so long.

And if the Home Secretary wants to take me to court for giving tents and sleeping bags and wind up radio's and torches to people who are not being housed, then to be perfectly honest, I'll take my chances in court.

And one little anecdote; amongst many.

Craig, a man who lost his legs due to substance abuse, couldn't be housed because the council said they didn't have the appropriate accommodation which wouldn't breach the Disability Discrimination Act. So he pitched a donated tent at the back of Aldi as that was the best option.

One year later, he caught sepsis and died.

In that time, only the organisation I worked for went out to see him and to push for him to get a house.

Sadly, all it means is one less problem, he's one less person on the housing list and that's not acceptable - but that's the reality of "lifestyle choice"
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Excellent post TSS, providing evidenced examples of the problem. Now, unless I am being unfair- and I don't mean to - what is the work being done in the 3rd sector to alleviate the problem of rough sleeping; with the victim placed at the centre of the resolution ideas, rather than as the problem to be expunged?
 
Wizaard said:
Nothing to so with Tory policies slashing the ability of councils to tackle the issue.

They've also said veterans shouldn't get support when homeless as they are highly trained to live rough and survive.

Staggering lack of empathy
Click to expand...
Take the red tinted specs off Wizz, I worked in London as a bobby under a Labour government and the amount of homeless was staggering. That's why in my post I stated 'Politics aside'. Every Party has been spectacularly inept.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
Excellent post TSS, providing evidenced examples of the problem. Now, unless I am being unfair- and I don't mean to - what is the work being done in the 3rd sector to alleviate the problem of rough sleeping; with the victim placed at the centre of the resolution ideas, rather than as the problem to be expunged?
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Well the small charity I manage has started to buy houses.

Of the six we have so far, 5 have gone to people with "issues" who would otherwise struggle to get accommodation.

One has been an absolute arsehole and will be evicted - but the next tenant is already identified - he was found not guilty in court - but it's now 16 weeks homeless - as he deliberately made himself homeless - but us putting him in prison for a crime he's been cleared of.

He was offered a flat 2 doors down from someone who the courts have said he needs to stay away from.

You couldn't make this shit up.

So he's living on the sofa's of the community he knows - drug abusers etc - even though he is genuinely trying to assist his life out. He hasn't got a prayer without a fixed abode.

There are other local organisations trying; but the system is broken, utterly broken.

I'm not that naive to say that it's easy; it's not, but it is possible. It requires an entire cultural reset - a belief that people can be sustain a tenancy, support services which look at individuals in the round, and a move away from the idea of those who deserve help and those that don't.

And yes, a lack of resources means that far too often those who are there to help look at an individual and think "too difficult/too expensive" and just put them to the bottom of the list.

And we are a small town; with some of the highest rates of drugs and alcohol related deaths and crime rates. All of it is interlinked - but agencies are still working on their own little bit

I could share an email on here which would make you sick it's that bad.
 
TSSeasider said:
I have experience from the charity side of this.

Firstly, homelessness can be tackled; it requires a lot of will and it's really, really difficult.

The people who sleep rough by and large - have mental health problems (chronic and acute), have an addiction problem, have been involved in the criminal justice system and are generally very poorly.

They are also angry and upset.

They can also make terrible tenants because of all the issues above.

The question is why are they like that.

Mostly, they've fallen on hard times and it could be any one of us. Whenever I speak to our homeless community in Hartlepool, it reminds me of how one episode, one missed benefit appointment, losing a job, taking recreational drugs and chasing the auction can precipitate a download spiral in short order.

Moreover, once homeless, it's difficult to resolve any of those things because services look at one individual thing at a time.

So mental health services will not work with someone with an addiction and the addiction services will not work with someone with a mental health problem.

Honestly, it's possibly the only group of our community who cannot be allowed to present with more than one condition at once.

And anyone coming out of prison is treated appallingly.

We have a system that continues to punish people after they have served their time and ultimately creates the conditions where re-offending is almost inevitable. There is no space for forgiveness or for redemption and it's completely unfair and, without sounding callous, I'm offended as a tax payer - it is an absolutely shocking waste of money.

In the time I have been working with our homeless community, there has only been one person who I would agree and say it's a lifestyle choice and it's only because he couldn't cope after being homeless for so long.

And if the Home Secretary wants to take me to court for giving tents and sleeping bags and wind up radio's and torches to people who are not being housed, then to be perfectly honest, I'll take my chances in court.

And one little anecdote; amongst many.

Craig, a man who lost his legs due to substance abuse, couldn't be housed because the council said they didn't have the appropriate accommodation which wouldn't breach the Disability Discrimination Act. So he pitched a donated tent at the back of Aldi as that was the best option.

One year later, he caught sepsis and died.

In that time, only the organisation I worked for went out to see him and to push for him to get a house.

Sadly, all it means is one less problem, he's one less person on the housing list and that's not acceptable - but that's the reality of "lifestyle choice"
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Excellent, informed post TS.

It can be tackled, but as you say there seems to be barriers within current services that prevents this from happening. It is a minefield, and a lot of the issues, be it mental health, or addiction etc are too far along to be a quick fix by the time someone has found themselves homeless.
 
Lala said:
Excellent, informed post TS.

It can be tackled, but as you say there seems to be barriers within current services that prevents this from happening. It is a minefield, and a lot of the issues, be it mental health, or addiction etc are too far along to be a quick fix by the time someone has found themselves homeless.
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Absolutely right.

And trying to get on top of that whilst homeless it's virtually impossible.

We need to be more active in stopping it happening in the first place - it's difficult & especially as there is so much money to be made from renting.
 
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BFC1980 said:
She's missing a Tory trick here. She should let them sleep in tents but charge them council tax for it.
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Nah, we need to bring back the Poll tax then these slackers can pay for using up tax payer funded pavement space.

Plus why should someone living on the streets pay less ‘council tax’ (they pay none with their care fee life choice) than someone who lives on their own in a castle? Both breath the same amount of air ffs
 
Bend it like Suddick said:
Take the red tinted specs off Wizz, I worked in London as a bobby under a Labour government and the amount of homeless was staggering. That's why in my post I stated 'Politics aside'. Every Party has been spectacularly inept.
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I don't recall Labour calling it a lifestyle choice and taking charities to court for providing tents.
 
Regarding the tents etc, it’s a disgrace and totally inhumane to not acknowledge the difficulties that have led people to homelessness. And to not support them practically, financially and with empathy is equally disturbing.
 
Wizaard said:
I don't recall Labour calling it a lifestyle choice and taking charities to court for providing tents.
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They didn't, but they still managed to oversee a total shitshow. For once why don't you admit Labours failings, (which are plenty)...Tories are crap, but I can't wait for Stormin Starmers tenure, because if you think it's bad now....I await to be proved wrong.
 
Bend it like Suddick said:
They didn't, but they still managed to oversee a total shitshow. For once why don't you admit Labours failings, (which are plenty)...Tories are crap, but I can't wait for Stormin Starmers tenure, because if you think it's bad now....I await to be proved wrong.
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Labour halved homelessness between 2004 and 2010. It has pretty much doubled again since the Tories came in.
 
Bend it like Suddick said:
They didn't, but they still managed to oversee a total shitshow. For once why don't you admit Labours failings, (which are plenty)...Tories are crap, but I can't wait for Stormin Starmers tenure, because if you think it's bad now....I await to be proved wrong.
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It's getting on for 15 years ago. Things are different now. It cannot be any worse than the last 5 years of disastrous 'leadership' and out and out corruption.
 
The Tories are Cnuts.....Ms Braverman is a Cnut....but no matter how badly she phrased it, she is trying to highlight an interesting area of growth.

If you're homeless in Blackpool then the NHS, DWP/JCP, Blackpool Council and associated organisations (Horizon, GP surgeries & Charities) have safenets in operation to obtain support and accommodation for those that need it.

It's Government funded....not Government run

If you are living in a tent, then any organisation above will have instant action teams to obtain somewhere to live.
The JCP have a new 'fast action' advisors in Blackpool, that can get people from initial contact to accommodation/benefits in days and will even open bank accounts, set up contacts and obtain access to the correct support.

Clinical Mental Health Teams & Early Intervention Service (at Bloomfield Road) work with addiction services everyday and vis-a-versa, as they both take a dual view of care and both offer the same services, usually with the same people.
Often it's the participant that refuses the support and this is where they fall through the net.

If you're ex-forces, the support is amazing, having worked with people across Lancashire, their commitment, advice and support is beyond brilliant, it's bloody life changing.

If you're living in a tent for any period of time....you want to be living in a tent because there's enough help out there to get you out in days.
 
B_Side_The_C_Side said:
The Tories are Cnuts.....Ms Braverman is a Cnut....but no matter how badly she phrased it, she is trying to highlight an interesting area of growth.

If you're homeless in Blackpool then the NHS, DWP/JCP, Blackpool Council and associated organisations (Horizon, GP surgeries & Charities) have safenets in operation to obtain support and accommodation for those that need it.

It's Government funded....not Government run

If you are living in a tent, then any organisation above will have instant action teams to obtain somewhere to live.
The JCP have a new 'fast action' advisors in Blackpool, that can get people from initial contact to accommodation/benefits in days and will even open bank accounts, set up contacts and obtain access to the correct support.

Clinical Mental Health Teams & Early Intervention Service (at Bloomfield Road) work with addiction services everyday and vis-a-versa, as they both take a dual view of care and both offer the same services, usually with the same people.
Often it's the participant that refuses the support and this is where they fall through the net.

If you're ex-forces, the support is amazing, having worked with people across Lancashire, their commitment, advice and support is beyond brilliant, it's bloody life changing.

If you're living in a tent for any period of time....you want to be living in a tent because there's enough help out there to get you out in days.
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Re your last paragraph, or because you're not aware of the help because of mental health and addiction issues?
 
Lost me on that one.....Do you mean do I have Mental health or addiction issues?
Unfortunately no...I work across EIS/CMHT (which is Mental Health)
My knowledge of the support is because I'm involved in this (usually) on a daily basis.
 
B_Side_The_C_Side said:
Lost me on that one.....Do you mean do I have Mental health or addiction issues?
Unfortunately no...I work across EIS/CMHT (which is Mental Health)
My knowledge of the support is because I'm involved in this (usually) on a daily basis.
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No, people are in tents as they have no knowledge of the support?
 
B_Side_The_C_Side said:
Lost me on that one.....Do you mean do I have Mental health or addiction issues?
Unfortunately no...I work across EIS/CMHT (which is Mental Health)
My knowledge of the support is because I'm involved in this (usually) on a daily basis.
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Why not just say all politicians are cnuts, when labour get in, homeless will be 10 times worse or more.
 
Bend it like Suddick said:
Take the red tinted specs off Wizz, I worked in London as a bobby under a Labour government and the amount of homeless was staggering. That's why in my post I stated 'Politics aside'. Every Party has been spectacularly inept.
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The official numbers for rough sleeping are based on a count done on a single night each year. They showed that in autumn 2018 there were 4,677 people on the streets, up from 1,768 in 2010.
Red tinted specs off!
 
EPM46 said:
The official numbers for rough sleeping are based on a count done on a single night each year. They showed that in autumn 2018 there were 4,677 people on the streets, up from 1,768 in 2010.
Red tinted specs of
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EPM46 said:
1,768 in 2010.
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and what were the 'acceptable' figures before that?

Specs back on im afraid as the figures might be lower in that year, but still pretty pathetic.
 
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