Rwanda

Hertsseasider said:
The situation here in the Canaries

www.euronews.com

Record breaking 32,000 migrant arrived in Canary islands this year

The figure exceeds the previous high during the migration crisis of 2006, when 31,678 migrants disembarked in the Canaries.
www.euronews.com www.euronews.com
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Hmmm, I wonder what the indigenous Guanches people thought of all the Spaniards and Portuguese “swamping” their islands back in the 15th and 16thC ? It’s a shame we can’t ask them.

The Guanches were descended from the Berber tribes of North Africa and arrived in the Canary Islands in the first millennium BC. Now, tell me, where are all these latest migrants from? It’s an eternal issue and, as basilrobbie said, it’s not going to go away soon.
 
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Threepeaksphil said:
The simple answer is anyone entering illegally will NEVER be granted permission to stay they need to complete an application BEFORE entering the UK. I believe this is the Aussies system.
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With the greatest respect, there is no such thing as illegal entry in law, as you are entitled to get to a country and ask for asylum, rightly or wrongly. The current problem has been compounded by the Government closing all normal routes, with very specific tiny exceptions, eg Afghans who helped the coalition.
 
Not quite sure how passing emergency legislation asserting Rwanda is a safe country actually makes it the case, which is what it sounds like they are planning to do?

With due respect to Rwanda isn’t it a bit like passing a law declaring the moon is made of Swiss cheese?
 
Archibald Knox said:
I just don’t understand why this Conservative Govt is not viewing all the immigrants they have left unprocessed as a potentially beneficial human resource. There are ca 175,000 of them.

How many EU workers have left the UK since Brexit? These are the numbers given in January 2023.

By June 2022, there was a significant shortfall of ca 460,000 EU-origin workers, partly but not wholly compensated for by an increase of about 130,000 non-EU workers. The net loss of workers – around 330,000 – is 1 per cent of the labour force.

But of course, the migrants do not share our values and are mostly Albanian criminals, eh?

I remember the Vietnamese boat people who settled well in the USA and the Ugandan Asians who came to UK. Even the Cubans who escaped to Florida did not turn out to be all drug dealers like Scarface, even though Castro emptied his prisons.

Long ago, the Huguenots escaping European pogroms in the 15-16thC settled in London and gave us their weaving skills and real beer (as opposed to the poor quality “ale” the English had). The UK helped millions of Russian and European Jews in the mid 19thC to early 20thC some of whom settled and others travelled on to the USA.
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An excellent post. Some, maybe many, of those people are skilled, have skills the UK needs. It's such a short-sighted " policy " and position to take.
 
Archibald Knox said:
Hmmm, I wonder what the indigenous Guanches people thought of all the Spaniards and Portuguese “swamping” their islands back in the 15th and 16thC ? It’s a shame we can’t ask them.

The Guanches were descended from the Berber tribes of North Africa and arrived in the Canary Islands in the first millennium BC. Now, tell me, where are all these latest migrants from? It’s an eternal issue and, as basilrobbie said, it’s not going to go away soon.
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Nail on the head mate
 
Tangerinemoss said:
With the greatest respect, there is no such thing as illegal entry in law, as you are entitled to get to a country and ask for asylum, rightly or wrongly. The current problem has been compounded by the Government closing all normal routes, with very specific tiny exceptions, eg Afghans who helped the coalition.
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And even the Afghan plan was a mess. Many Afghans who worked for and Hellen not just the coalition but the British Government, were left behind m
 
Tangerinemoss said:
With the greatest respect, there is no such thing as illegal entry in law, as you are entitled to get to a country and ask for asylum, rightly or wrongly. The current problem has been compounded by the Government closing all normal routes, with very specific tiny exceptions, eg Afghans who helped the coalition.
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I thought it was a rule that anyone worried about their safety should apply for asylum in the FIRST safe country they reach. Why isn’t that happening in France/Italy etc?
 
Matesrates said:
Rishi playing hardball, “I will not allow a foreign court to block these flights “
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What foreign court? All of ours said the same and it was his lot who took it to the Supreme Court.

Rule of law? I don't like that so I'll bring in my own laws. Third Reichesque.

This is an excuse to drop out of the ECHR, which will benefit their donors. Nothing to do with immigration and everything to do with changing working conditions back to the Victorian era.

Don't come crying when H&S legislation is stopped and working time extends to 75 hours a week.

Be very careful what you wish for.
 
glasshalffull said:
Not quite sure how passing emergency legislation asserting Rwanda is a safe country actually makes it the case, which is what it sounds like they are planning to do?

With due respect to Rwanda isn’t it a bit like passing a law declaring the moon is made of Swiss cheese?
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5 judges unanimously agreed it wasn't a safe country.
 
Archibald Knox said:
Actually, yes you can, very easily, if Parliament passes a law. They just need the imagination to think laterally.
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What sort of message would that send to others thinking of making a similar journey?

The country is weak and being weak is why we're in this situation.

People are happy to take advantage of the weakness and generosity we show.
 
Wizaard said:
5 judges unanimously agreed it wasn't a safe country.
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I believe Sunak was going to call it a day on this one and admit defeat, but he saw this thread and thought sod it, not having my biggest fan get one over on me again.
 
Bend it like Suddick said:
However none of the above had an edict to eventually take over the world and rid it of Kafirs, like Islam dictates and the majority of migrants follow the religion.
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The vast majority of Muslims are peaceful and non-violent and have no wish to take over the world. Just like the vast majority of Irish people, both Catholic and Protestant.
 
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JJpool said:
What sort of message would that send to others thinking of making a similar journey?

The country is weak and being weak is why we're in this situation.

People are happy to take advantage of the weakness and generosity we show.
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The people taking advantage are the criminal smugglers. They are taking advantage of this country’s stupid, illogical and, yes, weak government to make millions.
 
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Threepeaksphil said:
I thought it was a rule that anyone worried about their safety should apply for asylum in the FIRST safe country they reach. Why isn’t that happening in France/Italy etc?
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Well, actually that is happening and with more people than we are getting. We are probably seeing just a fraction of those entering Europe. But France, Italy, Spain, Germany can’t cope with them all. And the much greater immigration pressures on Turkey and Greece who are less suited to cope.

We have to take some responsibility… for wrecking countries and societies just because our elite disapproved of them. Blair supporting Bush in Afghanistan and Iraq. Cameron led the destruction of Libya. Yes, the Iranians and Russians are up to the same in Syria and Yemen, Ukraine etc. But we cannot deny our own culpability in the chaos our own Army, Royal Navy and RAF created.
 
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Archibald Knox said:
The people taking advantage are the criminal smugglers. They are taking advantage of this country’s stupid, illogical and, yes, weak government.
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Yes, the smugglers, but also people taking advantage of the fact we can't seem to police a proper border or have any control over sending any back. We've even had advertisements from lefty lawyers saying they'll help people who do come. It's ridiculous.

You can't blame people for wanting a better life, but many are economic migrants and are arriving illegally. The majority are young men.

Everything the government seems to try is blocked somewhere, almost as if some want then to fail, can't think why.

Meanwhile, the costs of putting people in hotels is ridiculous, the risk of letting unknown people that could want to do us harm in is very real, but also many end up in the shadow economy and in criminal activity.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
I think you have either misunderstood my post or are simply determined to dismiss a potentially workable solution to the problem.
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Nope didn’t misunderstand your post for one moment. Currently there is no workable solution and that is well known. You are looking forward should Labour win the next GE and then Starmer will make an agreement with France to allow more illegal immigrants into the UK.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
Spot on, so go after the smugglers / traffickers
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We are doing. We (with Belgium) just jailed a smugglers gang leader for 11 years. Unfortunately the wheels of our justice system grind exceedingly slowly. Some might wish it was 100 years ago when we would have just put such criminals up against a wall and shot them. Mind you, they would never have been able to leave their original country.

www.nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk

Man who led small boats crime network responsible for smuggling 10,000 to the UK jailed

A man who was arrested by the National Crime Agency has been jailed for 11 years for leading a small boats people smuggling network believed to have been involved in smuggling around 10,000 people to the UK.
www.nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk www.nationalcrimeagency.gov.uk

By the way, he was an Iranian Kurd. Kurds have a mixture of religions. Mostly Shia Muslims but some in Iraq are Christians and Zoroastrians.
 
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TangerineBayern said:
Nope didn’t misunderstand your post for one moment. Currently there is no workable solution and that is well known. You are looking forward should Labour win the next GE and then Starmer will make an agreement with France to allow more illegal immigrants into the UK.
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Your last part is oxymoronic. If there is an agreement, they would not be illegal.
 
TangerineBayern said:
Nope didn’t misunderstand your post for one moment. Currently there is no workable solution and that is well known. You are looking forward should Labour win the next GE and then Starmer will make an agreement with France to allow more illegal immigrants into the UK.
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So, not a misunderstanding. Just a deliberate misrepresentation for no good reason.
 
TangerineBayern said:
A play on words! At the moment this country is being flooded by illegal immigrants is that not true? They are literally breaking the law and costing us tax payers an absolute fortune.
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The law was deliberately changed to make everyone turning up 'illegal', so a crisis could be confected and they'd look good resolving it, only it turned out they couldn't resolve the skin off a rice pudding.
 
TangerineBayern said:
A play on words! At the moment this country is being flooded by illegal immigrants is that not true? They are literally breaking the law and costing us tax payers an absolute fortune.
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Flooded?!!! An immigrant only becomes illegal if and when their application for asylum etc is rejected. How they arrive does not in itself make them illegal.

The UK is currently in about 17th place of European countries that receive migrants. That means there are 16 other countries that take more than the UK.
So the answer to your question ( admittedly not to me) is no.
 
basilrobbie3 said:
It's a much bigger problem than politicians would have you believe.

Global warning is going to make big swathes of Africa, the Middle East and parts of Asia uninhabitable by the second half of this century. The strain on Northern Europe and North America to accommodate net immigration is likely to grow enormously.

Thrown in war, famine and corruption and you have the biggest problem we have ever faced. We have to work at the global level to try to address it. Our Government gets plenty of good advice about this from officials, which is why this kind of mean-spirited and myopic policy is baffling.
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People also need to bear in mind falling birth rates and the challenges the northern hemisphere faces with an increasing percentage of older people and fewer younger people to look after their needs.
 
The whole Rwanda initiative is just a massive dead cat thrown by the Tory party. They know the chances of it succeeding are virtually zero but they will use its failure to cause division and blame it on the EHCR, 'leftie' lawyers, etc. Totally predictable and a complete waste of time and money.*

* Obviously the Taxpayers Alliance will be all over the waste of taxpayers money. Or probably not.
 
Why not just escort them back over the Channel to France or Belgium and leave them on the beach?
They've walked across all these countries and no one stopped them.
Why?
 
According to Ian Dunt's analysis, link above, its likely to be already too late to make any Bill law before the next election. It will face opposition in the Lords, who may be able to block it. Also likely to fail through legal challenges.
 
Independent Judges at numerous levels say a country is deemed not safe. (Judges making a decision 200 yards away from Westminster, by the way, not 'foreign').

Rishi thinks a Bill to say its safe means it is. Absolute delusion.
 
It makes you wonder about the sheer ineptitude of most of this government. Not to mention desperation in resorting to culture wars.
 
What I don't understand is that Rishi's course of action is BOUND to fail as Dunt points out.
There is not enough time before the next election.
What then - a culture war against judges, HoL peers etc.?
I am sure quite a few Conservative peers will be against this.
It doesn't make sense.
 
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