Societal change post Covid

B

braymarina

Well-known member
After Covid, what societal change might we expect?

Some of us were talking yesterday about how little real money we use now, its ages since I had a note in my hand or cash jingling in my pocket and its likely to stay that way after Covid.

In my area and on the edges of other big cities people are working from home and there seems to be a move to at least partially make that a permanent way of life. When balanced against an hour or so in a stuffy, expensive train or bumper to bumper waiting for the traffic to move it seems an obvious option even though there is a recognition that most people need to meet and mingle with others in order to bring the best out of themselves in a work environment.

Of course, if the numbers of people planning to work from home are significant it effects considerable societal change and impacts all kinds of businesses in different ways, what now for the city wine bar or sandwich shop or bus and train service?

In years to come what changes, driven by the Covid period, do you imagine we will have seen?
 
Wrong forum ?

I'd like to see a big step change in terms of environmental protection. Electric cars, bikes etc.

A recognition of the role of government in looking after the well being of the nation.

A global approach to global issues rather than nations scrapping.
 
I certainly think there will continue to be a mix of remote and office based working in the future. Before lockdown I used to travel down to London 2 or 3 times a month to chair meetings or conferences. All of those have been done remotely over the last yesr and, ironically, have had better attendance, probahly because people don't have the extra travel time which would have taken at least a day out of their schedule. Also saves employers the cost of travel and sometimes hotel accommodation. Some people are also looking to move out of cities if they can work remotely most of the time. More time for their family as well.
I was reading an interesting article yesterday on HS2. The passenger numbers and business case for it were already flimsy in relation it's high and rising costs. With a potential fall in demand for working and meetings in London, does it make it look even pooer value for money?
 
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Interesting case HS2 Peter, is it too far gone now for a re-evaluation?

Its probably idealistic of me but I wonder if Post Covid will see a revaluation of the value that people offer society , will nurses be better paid for instance?
 
braymarina said:
Interesting case HS2 Peter, is it too far gone now for a re-evaluation?

Its probably idealistic of me but I wonder if Post Covid will see a revaluation of the value that people offer society , will nurses be better paid for instance?
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I have always thought that HS2 was a focus on further boosting the economy of London, with very little benefit for the Midlands and North. That is on top of the 75% of transport infrastructure investment over the last 30 years, which has foccussed on London and the SE.
If they are serious about levelling up they could make much better use of the money and do less environmental and other disruption by improving east / west links in the Midlands and the North and other business infrastructure there
 
I don’t work from home by choice, but the new relaxed attitude that working from home has brought about in my workplace in general has definitely had a mellowing affect on me,
I used to be a stickler for putting pressure on myself and a rigid approach to work, but the changes others have embraced has made me reevaluate my own stance.
I still like the routine and interaction going into working brings but I’ve realised that nobody dies if things change and you take a longer lunch or have a later start !
I’m definitely going forward with a more relaxed state of mind and priority.
I don’t think working from home will be the new absolute norm though. Too many impacts on the economy if people leave the house far less on a regular basis.
 
I think it's a fallacy to think that there will be a wholesale change to working from home for the majority. Companies won't be able to support both offices and subsidise home working, so I'd predict a return to the former. Also whilst I have spent many years working from home, it doesn't suit everyone and I think the implication of isolation and associated mental issues is massively underestimated. Finally and perhaps least important ... but relevant all the same ... the economy of our cities is based on office working. Remove this and there's a crisis to address, both economical and social.
 
Its good to hear you are in a good place Lala, for some people I know working from home has proved very stressful, they really do need a prescribed shape to their day and find themselves floundering around with out it.

I wonder though, broadening the conversation, will history see a pre and post Covid period much like we see pre and post war periods now?
 
Going Up the Pool said:
I think it's a fallacy to think that there will be a wholesale change to working from home for the majority. Companies won't be able to support both offices and subsidise home working, so I'd predict a return to the former. Also whilst I have spent many years working from home, it doesn't suit everyone and I think the implication of isolation and associated mental issues is massively underestimated. Finally and perhaps least important ... but relevant all the same ... the economy of our cities is based on office working. Remove this and there's a crisis to address, both economical and social.
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Totally agree with all of that. Home working would be my worst nightmare, almost.
And absolutely agree regarding the economic of our cities.
It was no surprise that after the first lockdown m, albeit short lived, Boris quickly took to encouraging people to return to their offices to work. This will happen again with a push towards repairing the economic damage inflicted on all the businesses whose survival depends upon office workers and commuters returning to their routines.
 
braymarina said:
Its good to hear you are in a good place Lala, for some people I know working from home has proved very stressful, they really do need a prescribed shape to their day and find themselves floundering around with out it.

I wonder though, broadening the conversation, will history see a pre and post Covid period much like we see pre and post war periods now?
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I’m not working from home myself Bray, but the whole culture of my workplace has changed, albeit temporarily, because of the concessions or changes made because of the need for many to work from home.
It’s left a more relaxed mindset in the office too.
Totally agree about mental health and isolation, especially long term for home workers.
 
Going Up the Pool said:
I think it's a fallacy to think that there will be a wholesale change to working from home for the majority. Companies won't be able to support both offices and subsidise home working, so I'd predict a return to the former. Also whilst I have spent many years working from home, it doesn't suit everyone and I think the implication of isolation and associated mental issues is massively underestimated. Finally and perhaps least important ... but relevant all the same ... the economy of our cities is based on office working. Remove this and there's a crisis to address, both economical and social.
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I take your point regarding a return to what we used to consider the norm Pool but as a for instance BMW head office near me now runs an office that can take say 100 at max whilst they employ double that, so to be in the office you have to book a slot rather than just turn up every day and they have been running that model from pre Covid. The Hoda head office, again local to me is setting up the same way and reducing the size of office space they rent.
 
Even before Covid, I have thought that by the time HS2 was completed the world will have changed, quite probably undermining the initial justification. Euro Tunnel is a lesson from the past. Future passenger revenues were estimated based on the cost of airfares charged by BA and Air France. Long before the rise of the low cost airlines. That's why they had to write- off most of the initial debt.

What will be the impact of autonomous vehicles? I'd rather get pick up at home and be delivered directly to my destination than travel to a station and then have to find transport at the other end.
 
Wizaard said:
In answer to your second para, an absolute no.
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Wiz, there is a questionaire in today's Sunday Times which asks if those people working in essential services should be paid more and treated better in the future, 83% of those asked said yes. Time will tell if it comes to pass
 
Has anyone mentioned the High Street? Retail was struggling before, but the epidemic but can only have accelerated the rush to online purchasing. What’s it going to look like in the future?

And pubs. How many will reopen? Will the “new look” involve apps and ordering from the table? And if it is, will you still bother to go or just think fcuk it? Or just go out drinking with your kids and let them look after you?
 
Posters have referenced offices and the high street in terms of their businesses and reduced footfall, quite rightly. Costero will be all over me if I get this wrong, but the even bigger impact will be on your pension. Pension funds are massively into property, the rents and capital values keeping money ticking over to keep all you retired bods afloat.

I'm sure the Government will come up with some incentive like the disastrous "Eat out to help out" to get people back into town centres and office blocks.

Otherwise, I expect to see masks to stay common, hopefully people will keep washing their hands and reduce respiratory diseases and food poisoning, and exercise stay in peoples' daily plans.
 
braymarina said:
Wiz, there is a questionaire in today's Sunday Times which asks if those people working in essential services should be paid more and treated better in the future, 83% of those asked said yes. Time will tell if it comes to pass
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As someone in the public sector we've already been told that there is a pay freeze for two years. This is one u turn I can't see this Government making.
 
Our exposure to good old fashioned bugs has diminished, so when people start mixing again we will fall foul to the good old fashioned cold. Hopefully the big pub chains will give way to proper independent pubs.
 
I would love things to stay changed in many ways as there have been some major benefits to the environment and also to peoples mental health, although there is a contact to that, but it should go once Covid is under control.

There should be more home working, companies can downsize offices so they have a hub rather than a place for the whole workforce. Travel will decrease, the roads will be less used, as will the trains and planes. I wonder how international travel or travel on flights will be affected. The industry is on its knees so will there be less airline companies? Less planes? Will prices increase or decrease? A big increase will stop many having holidays abroad and business travel will certainly reduce, I know several business men who travel overseas regularly but they have found holding meetings online have been just as good and save money and time. They obviously have to travel if they need to go and look at something but that will still reduce the demand massively. Holidays here will increase, prices will go up and your old quiet retreat will be full of people so that's a downside.

The knock on effects will be to the leisure industry, bars, eateries will suffer because of less demand and people not going into cities smooch. I fear for pubs and restaurants, cafes etc., that may have to shut down because they have lost everything but there will be others waiting in the wings to snap these places up at a bargain price so they will still be there but with new owners,

Live music and theatre will bounce back and be really popular and the high street, which was already on its arse will be a thing of the past as far as the 'Big names' are concerned, they won't survive unless they crack the online market. That will mean either ghost towns or rejuvenated towns with proper independent shops catering for the needs of the community.

You could go on and on, but to think it will just all return to how it was is foolish and it just isn't going to happen.
 
Seaside Aggro said:
How long did it take them to try and stop the free parking for nhs staff?. That’s the best indicator of how they aim to reward people.
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And the cheering when a pay rise for the NHS was blocked in 2017.

The current ruling lot were adamant that the introduction of the minimum wage would ruin the economy when Labour brought it in. Now they boast about it when they increase it by 20p.

Leopards don't change their spots.
 
Lala said:
I don’t work from home by choice, but the new relaxed attitude that working from home has brought about in my workplace in general has definitely had a mellowing affect on me,
I used to be a stickler for putting pressure on myself and a rigid approach to work, but the changes others have embraced has made me reevaluate my own stance.
I still like the routine and interaction going into working brings but I’ve realised that nobody dies if things change and you take a longer lunch or have a later start !
I’m definitely going forward with a more relaxed state of mind and priority.
I don’t think working from home will be the new absolute norm though. Too many impacts on the economy if people leave the house far less on a regular basis.
Click to expand...
Paid work, like water, finds it's natural level. If previously, you were expected to work X hours for X pay, if as a home worker, some liberties are taken, there will at some point be a consequence to that. I believe that some of the "new home workers" who are enjoying doing far less for the same money...will find that out at some point. Not aiming this at you, Lala, personally but I hear a lot of "new home workers" talking about how they do less now and it's a lot easier...at some point either they themselves 9to keep their jobs) or others will offer to do far more for the same benefits. Most large employers are not generally perceived to be a benevolent organisation.
 
BlackpoolWolves said:
Paid work, like water, finds it's natural level. If previously, you were expected to work X hours for X pay, if as a home worker, some liberties are taken, there will at some point be a consequence to that. I believe that some of the "new home workers" who are enjoying doing far less for the same money...will find that out at some point. Not aiming this at you, Lala, personally but I hear a lot of "new home workers" talking about how they do less now and it's a lot easier...at some point either they themselves 9to keep their jobs) or others will offer to do far more for the same benefits. Most large employers are not generally perceived to be a benevolent organisation.
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I know you aren’t aiming it at me because I don’t work from home .
And going forward I hear ya, and agree in the main.
 
More people holidaying here, rather than going abroad.

As much as i love 2 weeks in the sun, i have always had at least one week
in our beautiful and diverse country
 
Wizaard said:
And the cheering when a pay rise for the NHS was blocked in 2017.

The current ruling lot were adamant that the introduction of the minimum wage would ruin the economy when Labour brought it in. Now they boast about it when they increase it by 20p.

Leopards don't change their spots.
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And renamed it the Living Wage, as if they'd substantially improved what they were handing out.
 
Do you
Lytham_fy8 said:
I ** love working from home, no commute, no shitty M & S sandwiches and I don't have to pretend to like people.

Regarding public sector pay rises, we can all be happy with a ** applause from people who voted Tory.
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Do you still wear the Bowler working from home or have you downgraded to more casual headwear Lytham?
 
braymarina said:
After Covid, what societal change might we expect?

Some of us were talking yesterday about how little real money we use now, its ages since I had a note in my hand or cash jingling in my pocket and its likely to stay that way after Covid.

In my area and on the edges of other big cities people are working from home and there seems to be a move to at least partially make that a permanent way of life. When balanced against an hour or so in a stuffy, expensive train or bumper to bumper waiting for the traffic to move it seems an obvious option even though there is a recognition that most people need to meet and mingle with others in order to bring the best out of themselves in a work environment.

Of course, if the numbers of people planning to work from home are significant it effects considerable societal change and impacts all kinds of businesses in different ways, what now for the city wine bar or sandwich shop or bus and train service?

In years to come what changes, driven by the Covid period, do you imagine we will have seen?
Click to expand...
I was reading about how the separation between home and work and the travelling between gives your brain (and wellbeing) a break and a lift, coming home from work after a busy perhaps stressful day the journey time allows you to change gear as it were, and the transition from leaving work life for home life gives your endorphins a boost as your head adjusts between the two environments.

Working from home has its advantages, but there is no separation between home and work unless you are lucky enough to have a “space” to work in - a garden room for example.

I can see “Work Centres” being established, a kind of local communal hub that provides office space/hot desking good data communication links and meeting rooms for conference calls etc. Perhaps on-site catering or situated close to “local” (to where you live) shops, cafes and bars.

But the “staff” attending won’t necessarily all work for the same company but will share the same office space. This allows workers to go to work but without the long commute.

The money larger companies will save by closing expensive city centre locations can be spent in hiring space at these “work hubs” and companies specialising in facilities management will be earning a buck or two to boot as well as employing their own staff to work in the hubs. Has the added bonus of a return of customers to the food/retail outlets post Covid.

If anybody still has a job after all this that is!
 
Bottle said:
I was reading about how the separation between home and work and the travelling between gives your brain (and wellbeing) a break and a lift, coming home from work after a busy perhaps stressful day the journey time allows you to change gear as it were, and the transition from leaving work life for home life gives your endorphins a boost as your head adjusts between the two environments.

Working from home has its advantages, but there is no separation between home and work unless you are lucky enough to have a “space” to work in - a garden room for example.

I can see “Work Centres” being established, a kind of local communal hub that provides office space/hot desking good data communication links and meeting rooms for conference calls etc. Perhaps on-site catering or situated close to “local” (to where you live) shops, cafes and bars.

But the “staff” attending won’t necessarily all work for the same company but will share the same office space. This allows workers to go to work but without the long commute.

The money larger companies will save by closing expensive city centre locations can be spent in hiring space at these “work hubs” and companies specialising in facilities management will be earning a buck or two to boot as well as employing their own staff to work in the hubs. Has the added bonus of a return of customers to the food/retail outlets post Covid.

If anybody still has a job after all this that is!
Click to expand...
This issue has got progressively worse over the past decade or more really. The boundaries between work life and home life have started to blend together...

A combination of ‘so called’ flexible working arrangements and the progression of mobile technology has enabled a kind of ‘work on the go’ type of lifestyle...

So what the employee has perceived as increased freedom and flexibility has actually led to increased stress and a slave to technology.

Before you know it, you’re out for a pleasant meal with the Mrs or sat on your sunbed at your holiday resort and the email pings.... Even if you don’t respond immediately you still can’t get the stress of the ‘urgent job’ you know needs dealing with off your mind....

The whole ‘working from home’ is just another extension of this intrusion of the workplace into our work / life balance...
 
Make sure you have a work mobile and laptop so you don't share your personal devices with work and just switch them on at 9am and off at 5pm. Simples.
 
braymarina said:
Interesting case HS2 Peter, is it too far gone now for a re-evaluation?

Its probably idealistic of me but I wonder if Post Covid will see a revaluation of the value that people offer society , will nurses be better paid for instance?
Click to expand...
It will probably cost more to back out of the programme than to continue now.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
This issue has got progressively worse over the past decade or more really. The boundaries between work life and home life have started to blend together...

A combination of ‘so called’ flexible working arrangements and the progression of mobile technology has enabled a kind of ‘work on the go’ type of lifestyle...

So what the employee has perceived as increased freedom and flexibility has actually led to increased stress and a slave to technology.

Before you know it, you’re out for a pleasant meal with the Mrs or sat on your sunbed at your holiday resort and the email pings.... Even if you don’t respond immediately you still can’t get the stress of the ‘urgent job’ you know needs dealing with off your mind....

The whole ‘working from home’ is just another extension of this intrusion of the workplace into our work / life balance...
Click to expand...
Sadly true for some that BFC - I used to commute to Liverpool but because I did standby overnight once or twice a week the company paid for an ADSL to be installed (shows how long ago) at home and provided phone and computer - it worked both ways really, if I was woken in the night I got to spend the next day WFH - and always tended to work what would have been the “travelling hours” - there were advantages like bring able to go for a lunchtime run!

The ADSL phone had an American style slow ring and I hated it going off at 3am - even today my stomach still turns when I hear that ring on an old TV show!

BHOK nails it in his reply though 👍 Fortunately all those things are behind me thanks to the joys of early retirement last year 😀
 
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