Hertsseasider
Well-known member
Akin to Follow the Science I guess
Stop The Boats
- Thread starter Hertsseasider
- Start date
Wizaard
Well-known member
First take your dog whistle.
Blow.
He's made it clear that a failure to reduce the numbers will be on him, with reference to I've been thinking, my policy etc etc..
Remember that next year when it's election time.
TSSeasider
Well-known member
So if the policy is a success, you'll vote Conservative?
Junior_BentsPlatformShoes
Well-known member
Something has to be done about the volume of boats arriving and the organised gangs. I’m not sure this is the answer.
Whilst I can’t stand this Tory party, I also think people need to get more realistic when differentiating between genuine asylum seekers and economic migrants. We cannot carry on being a soft touch.
Whilst I can’t stand this Tory party, I also think people need to get more realistic when differentiating between genuine asylum seekers and economic migrants. We cannot carry on being a soft touch.
TSSeasider
Well-known member
I can't remember who it was, but someone said follow the money regarding who is selling the boats and deal with it.
It cannot be that difficult to stop, so the question is, why haven't we done it?
I've no idea what it is but there's a reason for it
It cannot be that difficult to stop, so the question is, why haven't we done it?
I've no idea what it is but there's a reason for it
O
okeefesvolley
Guest
Research Serco. They're funding them to live here.
Wizaard
Well-known member
I've never had an issue with people coming in. We have a million vacancies on the books, so they're not taking our jobs, as the myth go.
The policy is heartless. Anyone coming in is immediately deported and can NEVER come back. If they're that desperate they will still try it.
dodgy_surname
Well-known member
Hertsseasider
Well-known member
When the first person actually gets sent to Rwanda, I will buy a nob end shirt.
Junior_BentsPlatformShoes
Well-known member
I think part of the issue is why are they coming through other safe European countries and bypassing seeking asylum there just to get here? They’re no longer in danger if they’re in France etc. so why risk everything on a dingy here?
Two main points are the gangs making a lot of money by promising people a better life, but also the fact I think we’re seen as a soft touch where housing and welfare etc is concerned.
M
Malced
Guest
Well I’ve no issue if with immigration get the balance right on numbers and empathy/compassion. As the stats are showing, year on year, there’s exponential growth in the figures. You might not have an issue with the record 44k last year, or the larger figure next year, and the year after, and the year after if the trend continues (which it will, if we sit back and do nothing). But what is your ceiling? Are you happy with 100k a year or 200k or 500k? Or is your view that it’s an open door and any volume is ok?
Do you agree that if we allow anyone on boats in then we’ll only encourage more and more to come?
Is your position that you’re happy with them coming on boats only when we have job vacancies? That’s what you seem to suggest. What happens when there are low numbers of job vacancies? Will you then be against the illegal people smuggling or still ok with it?
I’m not dead against immigration. Far from it. I think we have to do our fair share. We need more legal routes. But wherever we draw the line, wherever we limit it , as we surely must, there will still be untold millions wanting to come to the UK. So I think it’s short sighted to think we can let anyone and everyone in because right now we have job vacancies.
It’s not evil or racist to want to manage our borders, as every country does. There’s ways to manage immigration but at the moment we aren’t managing it well. The answer to that isn’t to throw the doors wide open to all and sundry.
Hertsseasider
Well-known member
1. Language. Most migrants are able to speak English..
2. Families. Most migrants will have family connections in the UK.
3. The black economy. No ID card is required to work in the UK, there is an open market for work.
This is why they come here
Wizaard
Well-known member
We still get a lot less than Germany and France.
I haven't said its evil or racist, but this policy and announcement has been designed to target the racists at the next General Election. Bear in mind that it's this Governments entire fault that we've lost control of our borders. They've had 13 years to do something about it, tried all kinds of things with massive fanfares and each time with no results.
If they manage to get a dip in the figures they’ll be crowing about it, but this mess is entirely of their own making.
tangerine_neil
Well-known member
Jaffa_The_Hut
Well-known member
Why do they all want to end up here though?
Nothing wrong in staying in France in my book.
Walthamstow_Seasider
Well-known member
They don't ALL want to end up here, France has more asylum seekers than we do.Why do they all want to end up here though?
Nothing wrong in staying in France in my book.
The reason why some want to come to the UK is possibly down to the points Herts makes above.
M
Malced
Guest
You have conveniently, though understandably, swerved all my questions relating your preference to let them in and give them jobs. It's a nice thought, but not at all that simple.
With regards to the Tory's, it's obvious there's a political element to this as the next general election looms. However, there is no denying there's a real problem. To say it's their fault, yet then criticise when they try and solve it, is a contradiction. They've had 13 years but that's not the relevant timeframe. The numbers of illegal boat crossings have risen dramatically over the last 2-3 years. Within that time, various politicians have tried to resolve, working with the French, and paying the French large amounts of money, but at every turn they're challenged and blocked. So they're damned if they do, and damned if they don't.
In my opinion, they've tried to resolve the problem in many ways, but most of these have been ineffective as something radical is needed. These new policies and rules are indeed radical, though they're probably not going to get off the ground, and may not work in practice. But at least they're trying to shake things up - because the ever worsening problem cannot be allowed to keep worsening.
It's absolutely wrong to pitch this new approach as something crafted for racists. I only have to watch Sky News and other media channels to see that the 'man/woman/non-binary' in the street is concerned. They want something done to stop the illegal boat crossings.
So I'd suggest instead of labelling folk racist, you perhaps consider what untold levels of immigration would do to a country. And I ask again, what is your limit, and then what would with you do with those those that breach your limit? As soon as you say there's a limit, and as soon as you suggest your solution to the one's that can't come in, you'll have fallen into your own definition of racism. But if genuinely you have no limit, and your policy would be a complete open borderless country, then that escapes your definition of racism, but enters the bracket of complete irresponsibility. That's fine when you are not a politician and not part of the Government, but the Government do have the responsibility and so have to make tough decisions and broach all of this.
Junior_BentsPlatformShoes
Well-known member
You don’t have to be massively cynical to think this is a great distraction from unrest at home with the cost of living, and whilst this is in the news, strikes and unrest take a back seat. Also not a great leap to see this is also a way of shifting blame from Tory policies of the last 13 years, to ‘those people in boats are taking your jobs, pushing prices up, causing lack of housing’ etc, which is a dangerous path to go down.
Walthamstow_Seasider
Well-known member
This is a direct consequence of government policy failure.
When we were inside the EU we had the Dublin Regulation where we could return illegal migrants to the country they left to travel to the UK. Since leaving the EU we don't have those mechanisms and it's no surprise the number of small boats has rocketed.
It was like giving a green light to traffickers "go to the UK, they can't boot you out so easily now"
Jaffa_The_Hut
Well-known member
Well right now there’s supposed to be around 25,000-30,000 in camps around Calais alone and I’m pretty dam sure everyone of them doesn't want to stay in France they are camped there for a reason and that reason is destination U.K.
Old_Laytonian
Well-known member
It's a deflection tactic to take our minds off inflation, cost of living crisis and energy prices.
tangysider
Well-known member
I thought a high proportion last year was from Albania, hence our recent agreement with that country.
That probably kills of argument 1 and 2 so replace with soft touch and generous benefits system, which if we do not deport them they will soon access.
Wizaard
Well-known member
That's my point. At least double the number we get do stop in France and claim asylum there.Why do they all want to end up here though?
Nothing wrong in staying in France in my book.
poolseasider
Well-known member
A million jobs in what?
You can hardly put a chef's or nurses uniform on those coming unskilled in a boat that takes years of training before even the language barrier even is crossed.
Wizaard
Well-known member
Are there only jobs as chefs and nurses available?
Industry wide, everyone is saying there is a labour shortage, particularly unskilled jobs.
poolseasider
Well-known member
Over half the jobs will be skilled, references needed (I wouldn't employ someone without them) criminal checks etc.
Letting all and sundry is poor immigration and doesn't help the industry's that need staff.
Shandypants
Well-known member
I watched the documentary about the boat that sank in the channel with 27 people drowning. Well worth a watch, it puts faces to the demons. Many were Kurds, you know those who fought alongside western forces in Iraq, then we turned our back on them. What about Afgan translators who worked for western forces? A young lad was featured who was from Iraq he was younger than my son, his sister lived in the UK that was his reason he died at 23. Some speak good English that's their reason. I find it disgusting that we live in relative luxury but seem so be so opposed to others in desperate need. I'm sure there will be a lot of Turks living in tents at the minute thinking of escaping to a better life, would you object to them on the basis of being economic migrants? The east was destabilised by the west, Syria and other countries war torn. They must be desperate to travel 1000s of miles, often with young children, jump in a small boat risking their life. I admire their tenacity and sooner be associated with them than the fat fuck gammons who have taken over the country. The compassion shown by people here is embarrassing, the notion that we take huge numbers is completely false and they can go to any country of their choice and not the first destination. Its a tory deflection tactic and see it a a cheap vote winner. I'd also hazard a guess that we are nothing like a soft touch but I'd defer that subject to others.
Victorsponge
Well-known member
Exactly, if these people are desperate enough to risk crossing the channel on a very dodgy dingy there sure as he'll aren't going to be put off by Rishy's dumbass law.
Also if they can't claim asylum if the cross on a dingy how so the claim asylum are the UK going to set up an asylum claims centre on French soil?
M
Malced
Guest
Of course the vast majority of people have compassion for anyone drowning.
But you’re getting lost in the emotion of tragic cases and seemingly using those sorry souls as as justification to have open border migration.
Again, there’s no solutions in your post other than seemingly to let everyone in.
No the vast majority are not desperate. They’re making a calculated choice in the light of day to leave safe territory and pay thousands of euros to come here illegally.
Of course there’s more we can do. But with regards to Afghanistan, Hong Kong and Ukraine alone, we welcomed in hundreds of thousands of immigrants last year.
Most of those on the boats are young men wanting to forge a new life in the UK. A huge chunk of them are merely economic migrants. They’re not fleeing anything.
But you don’t mention that for some reason. Are the Albanians fleeing something? No. Not at all.
So yes it’s tragic and heart breaking for anyone losing their lives. But if you are defending the boat crossings then you’re actually saying it’s ok for potentially countless others to lose their lives in this way.
It’s illegal people smuggling. It’s mainly economic migration. We have to stop it. You don’t suggest any solution. You have no solution.
Recidivist3
Well-known member
I believe they’re planning a walk-in one on Vanuatu
Wizaard
Well-known member
Based on what? Go look at the stats and they'll tell you that the most vacancies are in agriculture and hospitality.
Even Tim Martin wants to relax the immigration laws.
Shandypants
Well-known member
The answer is to firstly stop demonising these people (that won't suit the govt) and have an honest debate about the subject. The west have a ticking time bomb with an aging population and plummeting birth rate, immigration is the only way to currently fill that stop gap. Freedom of movement did some of that but that didn't suit. We've descended into a populist government, silly agendas and slogans.
M
Malced
Guest
Demonising? it’s not demonising to state the obvious that Albanians shouldn’t be coming here. It’s the truth. Sorry if the Albanians don’t like being called out on this but it is what it is.
Various folk on here say the government has done nothing about it for 13 years but now others want a debate?
Well I’d say we need action. The proposed action will indeed be debated in parliament. That’s the democratic process. But having a discussion with Starmer et al ain’t going to achieve anything.
Markobfc
Well-known member
Serco paid millions for putting them up and processing them. Amazing how so many politicians have shares in the company!
Threepeaksphil
Well-known member
Gary L’s comments are a bit strange as I can’t recall from history restrictions on people trying to get into Germany I think lots of people were trying to get out.
Arise Lord Lineker.
Will become a peer in the new Labour Government to recognise his service to humanity.
Well done Gary - we all know the Tory Government are just racists. They don't care about the people in the boats. They're just trying to garner votes from the ignoranti in the red wall seats.
Will become a peer in the new Labour Government to recognise his service to humanity.
Well done Gary - we all know the Tory Government are just racists. They don't care about the people in the boats. They're just trying to garner votes from the ignoranti in the red wall seats.
Recidivist3
Well-known member
‘This is just an immeasurably cruel policy directed at the most vulnerable people in language that is not dissimilar to that used by Germany in the 30s,’
So nothing to do with getting in or out of the country but, hey, you carry on
Demonising minorities - Jews, Gypsies, Black People, Communists, Disabled.
glasshalffull
Well-known member
I am sure we all would like to see the small boats stopped from setting off.
These types of migrants would generally have come through the ferry ports until fairly recently.
Tightened security there and CO 2 monitors etc have largely blocked that route off, and the only legal routes for now are from Ukraine, Hong Kong (and maybe Afghanistan I think?).
When assessed about 60 per cent are generally found to be entitled to refugee/asylum status (not the Albanians obviously!).
Even if this policy works it will only be a partial solution and we will still need to act and have a presence elsewhere (Calais area for instance?)
Most of the net migration to the UK does not happen on small boats anyway (about 90 per cent occurs through our airports and ferry terminals).
The policy has a feel of one that will not work, not before the next election anyway, because it will most likely break International law, or because we probably won’t have anywhere to send them to in sufficient numbers, hence the suspicion that it is just a political stunt.
These types of migrants would generally have come through the ferry ports until fairly recently.
Tightened security there and CO 2 monitors etc have largely blocked that route off, and the only legal routes for now are from Ukraine, Hong Kong (and maybe Afghanistan I think?).
When assessed about 60 per cent are generally found to be entitled to refugee/asylum status (not the Albanians obviously!).
Even if this policy works it will only be a partial solution and we will still need to act and have a presence elsewhere (Calais area for instance?)
Most of the net migration to the UK does not happen on small boats anyway (about 90 per cent occurs through our airports and ferry terminals).
The policy has a feel of one that will not work, not before the next election anyway, because it will most likely break International law, or because we probably won’t have anywhere to send them to in sufficient numbers, hence the suspicion that it is just a political stunt.
By the way, I've no problem with Albanians being sent back. As far as I know there's no political suppression, and the UK already has an agreement with the Albanian Government.
This could mean the closure of many hand car wash garages though, including the one on Central Drive!
poolseasider
Well-known member
Not that hard to find out work force shortfalls in this country but all you want to do is bring in unskilled young men.
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poolseasider
Well-known member
poolseasider
Well-known member
Number one on that list care home workers.
No surprise when they had the ridiculous compulsory Covid jab policy and thousands left or pushed.
Only for it to be dropped by the NHS months later.
My sister in law (currently unemployed) will never go back in the Care industry after being sacked for refusing the jab as many others.
No surprise when they had the ridiculous compulsory Covid jab policy and thousands left or pushed.
Only for it to be dropped by the NHS months later.
My sister in law (currently unemployed) will never go back in the Care industry after being sacked for refusing the jab as many others.
M
Malced
Guest
Two thirds of the UK based on recent polls, want the boat crossings stopped and the illegal immigrants returned to where they came from.
But you’d rather listen to an extremist over-privileged multi millionaire gobshite that has no responsibility to the British public.
He will fit in well with all the other millionaire hypocrites in the Labour Party - with all its London elitist leaders. Now wonder it’s lost touch with the red wall.
It used to be for the working class. Not anymore
Didn't something happen a while ago which led to these shortages.
What was it called ?
- oh yes Brick Shit - and it was the very people who voted for it who now complain about skills shortages.
Two -thirds of the UK?Two thirds of the UK based on recent polls, want the boat crossings stopped and the illegal immigrants returned to where they came from.
But you’d rather listen to an extremist over-privileged multi millionaire gobshite that has no responsibility to the British public.
He will fit in well with all the other millionaire hypocrites in the Labour Party - with all its London elitist leaders. Now wonder it’s lost touch with the red wall.
It used to be for the working class. Not anymore
That's over 44 million then. Did you personally count them?
M
Malced
Guest
What don't you understand about 'based on recent polls?'
I'm surprised any adult doesn't have an idea about how polls work, and how the results are interpreted and applied. But in order to help you out, I'm happy to explain that polls are considered as a representative indication. They're a convenient way to quickly gauge opinion.
8 out of 10 women noticed their hair was softer and shinier when using Pantene Pro-V. Now if you've ask all the women in your life whether they've been consulted on this, you'll probably find they haven't. But Pantene have used what is known as a poll or a survey.
I suspect you actually knew how polls worked, because I'm sure you don't question the one's which show Labour with a significant lead over the Tory's. ;-)
bollieboy
Well-known member
Scapeboating.