Sturgeon under pressure

Wizaard said:
Career at stake over £600,000 costs.

Track and trace £37 billion but look over here, shiny shiny
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coppiceman said:
Fair point. I found her more believable than him though. What he claims is pretty fantastic isn't it?
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The more evidence that is released the more his version has legs.
He may have embellished his narrative but at the heart of the matter is another SNP government mess.
 
coppiceman said:
Fair point. I found her more believable than him though. What he claims is pretty fantastic isn't it?
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I don't know.

NS, created a policy to include ex-First Ministers, without scrutiny.

She held meetings about AS, which aren't minuted, which she forgot about, she can't recall them very well.

The Scottish government had an illegal and inherently unfair and unjust investigation into AS.

They carried on regardless despite being told that wouldn't win and have embarrassed legal defence as their chosen representative to have an independent enquiry into AS had already met the complainants before being asked to do the investigation.

One of only 23 people leaked the story to the Press and the SNP didn't investigate where it could have come from.

The Crown office, have put a ban on the sharing of evidence likely to support AS.

The Scottish Government refuse to release everything they've got to the Scottish Parliament.

And that's without including the different roles of NS and her husband.

It's more complex than that, but that's all I recall.

If I was him, I'd feel like I was the victim of a stitch up too.



I think what it does demonstrate that there is no place for virtue signalling in politics. NS had her eyes fixed on a #MeToo scalp and in pursuit of that completely failed in due process.

So the women who complained have been let down and the right to a fair trail has too.

That's no place for whatabout The UK Government on this thread, we have enough on them as is it.
 
TSSeasider said:
I don't know.

NS, created a policy to include ex-First Ministers, without scrutiny.

She held meetings about AS, which aren't minuted, which she forgot about, she can't recall them very well.

The Scottish government had an illegal and inherently unfair and unjust investigation into AS.

They carried on regardless despite being told that wouldn't win and have embarrassed legal defence as their chosen representative to have an independent enquiry into AS had already met the complainants before being asked to do the investigation.

One of only 23 people leaked the story to the Press and the SNP didn't investigate where it could have come from.

The Crown office, have put a ban on the sharing of evidence likely to support AS.

The Scottish Government refuse to release everything they've got to the Scottish Parliament.

And that's without including the different roles of NS and her husband.

It's more complex than that, but that's all I recall.

If I was him, I'd feel like I was the victim of a stitch up too.



I think what it does demonstrate that there is no place for virtue signalling in politics. NS had her eyes fixed on a #MeToo scalp and in pursuit of that completely failed in due process.

So the women who complained have been let down and the right to a fair trail has too.

That's no place for whatabout The UK Government on this thread, we have enough on them as is it.
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But so many of the people demanding Nicola Sturgeon's head over this turn a blind eye when it's Boris Johnson, Michael Gove being caught telling lies, Priti Patel bullying her civil servants or Robert Jenrick and Matt Hancock breaking the law. If those people actually acted on the ministerial code of conduct we'd be looking for half the government to be replaced on Monday.
 
catinstalbans said:
But so many of the people demanding Nicola Sturgeon's head over this turn a blind eye when it's Boris Johnson, Michael Gove being caught telling lies, Priti Patel bullying her civil servants or Robert Jenrick and Matt Hancock breaking the law. If those people actually acted on the ministerial code of conduct we'd be looking for half the government to be replaced on Monday.
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All politically motivated posters (including you) ‘cock a deaf one’, when it comes to the crimes of their own political party of choice.
 
catinstalbans said:
But so many of the people demanding Nicola Sturgeon's head over this turn a blind eye when it's Boris Johnson, Michael Gove being caught telling lies, Priti Patel bullying her civil servants or Robert Jenrick and Matt Hancock breaking the law. If those people actually acted on the ministerial code of conduct we'd be looking for half the government to be replaced on Monday.
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That's why so many Scots want independence. And why so many of those want proper scrutiny of ScotGov on this matter. It's a defining moment in Scotland's future imo.
 
catinstalbans said:
But so many of the people demanding Nicola Sturgeon's head over this turn a blind eye when it's Boris Johnson, Michael Gove being caught telling lies, Priti Patel bullying her civil servants or Robert Jenrick and Matt Hancock breaking the law. If those people actually acted on the ministerial code of conduct we'd be looking for half the government to be replaced on Monday.
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The polarisation of politics continues unabated sadly. The only winners are the politicians actually as they can all get away with ding what they want by a gentle puff on a dog whistle, resulting in their 35% of the electorate trying to drown out the others.

All politicians make mistakes, none are perfect, there are unintended consequences of every decision they make.

Personally (and I'm 48) I can't remember a more feeble set of national politicians ever. I can't think of one off the top of my head who I think; yep you're not bad you.

It's a problem.

It doesn't excuse NS for her conduct; which would have cost AS his reputation and liberty, nor does it excuse the shambles of procuring PPE and creating a system to monitor Covid, in a state of blind panic when they Government finally twigged, Covid es going to kill thousands.
 
TSSeasider said:
I don't know.

NS, created a policy to include ex-First Ministers, without scrutiny.

She held meetings about AS, which aren't minuted, which she forgot about, she can't recall them very well.

The Scottish government had an illegal and inherently unfair and unjust investigation into AS.

They carried on regardless despite being told that wouldn't win and have embarrassed legal defence as their chosen representative to have an independent enquiry into AS had already met the complainants before being asked to do the investigation.

One of only 23 people leaked the story to the Press and the SNP didn't investigate where it could have come from.

The Crown office, have put a ban on the sharing of evidence likely to support AS.

The Scottish Government refuse to release everything they've got to the Scottish Parliament.

And that's without including the different roles of NS and her husband.

It's more complex than that, but that's all I recall.

If I was him, I'd feel like I was the victim of a stitch up too.



I think what it does demonstrate that there is no place for virtue signalling in politics. NS had her eyes fixed on a #MeToo scalp and in pursuit of that completely failed in due process.

So the women who complained have been let down and the right to a fair trail has too.

That's no place for whatabout The UK Government on this thread, we have enough on them as is it.
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I'm not sure where you get all of your facts from, but some of them look like opinions.

I think that it is equally plausible to argue that AS is generating a lot of heat and light in order to help his relevance, downplay his dubious conduct and thus resurrect what is left of his career. I suspect that only a very few people know the truth, which is why I find the idea of some large and elaborate conspiracy pretty fanciful.

I think it is distinctly odd that AS should try to undermine the very institutions that the SNP would need to make independence work. It seems counter-intuitive - unless the principal motive behind his actions is to settle scores.

Good viewing though.
 
I see after 22 successive polls in Scotland had a majority for independance two have come out this weekend with a small majority to remain in the Union but that`s just a knee jerk responce to the current NS v AS battle .One wonders if that will last much beyond the current negative publicity,
 
basilrobbie said:
I'm not sure where you get all of your facts from, but some of them look like opinions.

I think that it is equally plausible to argue that AS is generating a lot of heat and light in order to help his relevance, downplay his dubious conduct and thus resurrect what is left of his career. I suspect that only a very few people know the truth, which is why I find the idea of some large and elaborate conspiracy pretty fanciful.

I think it is distinctly odd that AS should try to undermine the very institutions that the SNP would need to make independence work. It seems counter-intuitive - unless the principal motive behind his actions is to settle scores.

Good viewing though.
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I think TS has given a pretty good summary of the facts as they stand at present. Which of those do you believe are opinions?

AS is obviously agreived and NS is playing on the conspiracy angle to discredit him further and deflect from what is actually under scrutiny here. The actions of her government which have failed AS, the women and the taxpayers.

It isn't odd that AS should be drawing attention to the current state of the SNP either. Many of its members and former members are hacked off as they perceive NS to be totalitarian and corrupt. They don't think she really wants independence and is happy in her devolved comfort zone. Part of that obviously plays into the hands of the Unionist parties. There are some very unlikely bedfellows against NS at the moment.
 
1950`spoolfan said:
I see after 22 successive polls in Scotland had a majority for independance two have come out this weekend with a small majority to remain in the Union but that`s just a knee jerk responce to the current NS v AS battle .One wonders if that will last much beyond the current negative publicity,
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Up until recently, there has been very little to counter the SNP narrative relating to Scottish Independence and with so much focus, Brexit etc.. on that single issue, it’s hardly surprising that the polls might have shown the public were in favour.

I’m not sure how credible this latest poll is, but it was always going to be the case that a small amount of pushback would see the pro- independence lead crash down.

I seriously doubt that the end result of a referendum would be much different than it was the last time around.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Up until recently, there has been very little to counter the SNP narrative relating to Scottish Independence and with so much focus, Brexit etc.. on that single issue, it’s hardly surprising that the polls might have shown the public were in favour.

I’m not sure how credible this latest poll is, but it was always going to be the case that a small amount of pushback would see the pro- independence lead crash down.

I seriously doubt that the end result of a referendum would be much different than it was the last time around.
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As Scots realise that they will have an annual bill of £2000 extra per man woman and child just to retain what they have, they might not be so keen to tick that leave box.
 
catinstalbans said:
But so many of the people demanding Nicola Sturgeon's head over this turn a blind eye when it's Boris Johnson, Michael Gove being caught telling lies, Priti Patel bullying her civil servants or Robert Jenrick and Matt Hancock breaking the law. If those people actually acted on the ministerial code of conduct we'd be looking for half the government to be replaced on Monday.
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That's a fair comment. Double standards.
 
There is so much more scrutiny of politicians through all forms of media these days and I think much more cynicism in people`s estimation of politicians generally as a result, which tends to lower our impressions of all politicians.They may not be the greatest generation of politicians but close scrutiny and negativity tend to go hand in hand especially from those who vote for another party who now have greater opportunities to highlight any much sought after shortcomings(Cat being a perfect and obsessive example. )

As for Sturgeon and the SNP`s, obviously their endless denigration of all things south of their border and absolutely no appreciation for any support we do give them inevitably and understandably give them no brownie points or popularity down here.
 
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If it comes to a motion of confidence she will win it because the Scottish Greens will vote with her as they also want independence,
And the enquiry committee looking at the case has an SNP majority.
 
I see the recent poll on independence hasn’t gone her way either, it all seems to be falling apart doesn’t it.
 
bfcpete said:
If it comes to a motion of confidence she will win it because the Scottish Greens will vote with her as they also want independence,
And the enquiry committee looking at the case has an SNP majority.
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Greens need to think hard about that one, with an election coming.
 
1950`spoolfan said:
There is so much more scrutiny of politicians through all forms of media these days and I think much more cynicism in people`s estimation of politicians generally as a result, which tends to lower our impressions of all politicians.They may not be the greatest generation of politicians but close scrutiny and negativity tend to go hand in hand especially from those who vote for another party who now have greater opportunities to highlight any much sought after shortcomings(Cat being a perfect and obsessive example. )

As for Sturgeon and the SNP`s, obviously their endless denigration of all things south of their border and absolutely no appreciation for any support we do give them inevitably and understandably give them no brownie points or popularity down here.
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Telling lies to parliament is not a mere shortcoming. Breaking the law is not insignificant.
 
bfcpete said:
If it comes to a motion of confidence she will win it because the Scottish Greens will vote with her as they also want independence,
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I'm not so sure about that, but they are beholden to the SNP for their second preference votes so they tend to vote with them.
 
basilrobbie said:
I'm not sure where you get all of your facts from, but some of them look like opinions.

I think that it is equally plausible to argue that AS is generating a lot of heat and light in order to help his relevance, downplay his dubious conduct and thus resurrect what is left of his career. I suspect that only a very few people know the truth, which is why I find the idea of some large and elaborate conspiracy pretty fanciful.

I think it is distinctly odd that AS should try to undermine the very institutions that the SNP would need to make independence work. It seems counter-intuitive - unless the principal motive behind his actions is to settle scores.

Good viewing though.
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I thought most of it was factual based on listening (on and off) to both of them and reading various press reports.

I agree that the #MeToo scalp was an opinion, it's not based on anything other than NS saying it all happened in the wake of #MeToo. Her motives may have been genuinely about supporting the complainants.

As far as conspiracy theories go; we could plausibly suggest that AS never really wanted an independent Scotland and the only reason he is being as public as he is, is not just to clear his name, but because bringing down NS might put the brakes on the movement. Deep state if you will.

I love a conspiracy theory, but generally I go by Occam's razor.

And yes I agree, it is good viewing.
 
TSSeasider said:
As far as conspiracy theories go; we could plausibly suggest that AS never really wanted an independent Scotland and the only reason he is being as public as he is, is not just to clear his name, but because bringing down NS might put the brakes on the movement. Deep state if you will.
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Interesting you should think that TS.
Many pro-independence supporters seem to be suggesting it is the other way round.
 
catinstalbans said:
Telling lies to parliament is not a mere shortcoming. Breaking the law is not insignificant. you put a high
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You place a high value on honesty and I wouldn`t disagree with that so I trust you are equally honest with yourself.If so perhaps you would acknowledge the undoubted truth that you endlessly search for anything you can find that discredits our national government whilst ignoring and excluding anything that reflects well on them and of course vice versa with the opposition. Or is that too honest for you to acknowledge?
 
I praised the furlough scheme, I praised BJ making same sex marriage legal in Northern Ireland. I've even acknowledged that the vaccination roll out is one of the few things that the government has got right during the pandemic. However that does not excuse the deplorable corruption and lack of concern for legality at the heart of this despicable administration. I criticised Corbyn over his Brexit muddle of a policy and am not overly impressed with Starmer although he is an infinitely better alternative to the criminally negligent incumbent.
 
catinstalbans said:
I praised the furlough scheme, I praised BJ making same sex marriage legal in Northern Ireland. I've even acknowledged that the vaccination roll out is one of the few things that the government has got right during the pandemic. However that does not excuse the deplorable corruption and lack of concern for legality at the heart of this despicable administration. I criticised Corbyn over his Brexit muddle of a policy and am not overly impressed with Starmer although he is an infinitely better alternative to the criminally negligent incumbent.
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I think they call that a back handed complement through gritted teeth.
 
Ah well at least you gave your answer.Obviously with the torrent of abuse you endlessly aim at this country`s elected government it is easy to miss any rare unexpected moments of positivity from you. Clearly using a large microscope and if I keep my eyes skinned you never know I might one day spot another.I doubt it though!

The trouble is most of your posts are so predictable that one tends to move on elsewhere in the search of more reasoned balanced posts.
 
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basilrobbie said:
I think it is distinctly odd that AS should try to undermine the very institutions that the SNP would need to make independence work. It seems counter-intuitive - unless the principal motive behind his actions is to settle scores.
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If you read/listen to David Davis's speech from yesterday then it will help you to understand where AS, Joanna Cherry etc are coming from in regard to the institutions.
 
Haven`t followed this too closely as some of it is pretty dense stuff at times.

So I understand the `what` (regarding David Davis` Parliamentary Privilege speech), but don`t totally understand the `why` (at this moment in time).

I`m assuming the government has kept its powder dry until now, and that David Davis has been entrusted with the job of would-be assassin by the government now that Sturgeon has played her hand...
 
spudgun said:
Haven`t followed this too closely as some of it is pretty dense stuff at times.

So I understand the `what` (regarding David Davis` Parliamentary Privilege speech), but don`t totally understand the `why` (at this moment in time).

I`m assuming the government has kept its powder dry until now, and that David Davis has been entrusted with the job of would-be assassin by the government now that Sturgeon has played her hand...
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I think the why is because it was expected that the evidence would come out at the enquiry, particularly after the threat of the no confidence vote. The fact that information is still being given in such a miserly way has lead to a very careful expose under Parliamentary Privilege. And yes, of course, they hope it damages the SNP in the elections. However, it is highlighting that when Devolution was enshrined, it was not done in a way allowing whistle blowers to call the Government to account in the Scottish Parliament, it gave too much power to the Executive. If, heaven forbid, we saw independence, there would be little MSP's could do to hold the Government to account, they could just bury their mistakes.
 
spudgun said:
Haven`t followed this too closely as some of it is pretty dense stuff at times.

So I understand the `what` (regarding David Davis` Parliamentary Privilege speech), but don`t totally understand the `why` (at this moment in time).

I`m assuming the government has kept its powder dry until now, and that David Davis has been entrusted with the job of would-be assassin by the government now that Sturgeon has played her hand...
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I agree.

As presented by DD the “what” is pretty damning.

But, like you, I don’t get the “why”? Why would NS be out to get AS? She’s First Minister and leader of the SNP and seems to have (or seemed to have) an unassailable position. Was AS planning a comeback? Is there an AS faction within the party that’s blocking policies she wants to implement? Was she simply trying to establish her#MeToo credentials? If so why not just let the process run its course? Why interfere and try to determine the outcome?

Or maybe it’s a mistake to look for a rational reason. Maybe it’s simply personal grudges and people out for revenge? Or they messed up the process early doors, tried to cover it up and ended up on a very slippery slope? You’d like to think politicians are more grown up than that, and have grown up reasons, but I’m not sure.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
I think the why is because it was expected that the evidence would come out at the enquiry, particularly after the threat of the no confidence vote. The fact that information is still being given in such a miserly way has lead to a very careful expose under Parliamentary Privilege. And yes, of course, they hope it damages the SNP in the elections. However, it is highlighting that when Devolution was enshrined, it was not done in a way allowing whistle blowers to call the Government to account in the Scottish Parliament, it gave too much power to the Executive. If, heaven forbid, we saw independence, there would be little MSP's could do to hold the Government to account, they could just bury their mistakes.
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Yep I agree with your comments about the division of powers and that an amendment to the Act to build in more checks and balances seems like a good idea. It’ll be interesting to see how that’s presented in Scotland. England interfering in Scottish affairs. Or sensible house management, especially important if there was independence.
 
The SNP seems to have been captured in a Personality Cult-like process, with the spat between Salmond and Sturgeon a bit like the Night of the Long Knives. With most of the Scots chanting the Braveheart “Freeeeedom!” mantra, without accepting the real economic consequences of independence.

So, if they are that brainwashed, then DD’s speech is the opening salvo to discredit Sturgeon’s character and reputation in the run up to the Holyrood MSP elections in May. Hopefully, the other parliamentary parties will do their bit in assassinating her character as well. The SNP will still win, but if they lose some seats they cannot claim “overwhelming” support for their main policy.

It sounds as if there is plenty of evidence to open the Scots’ eyes. So far they have remained wilfully blind, though DD’s attack is right concerning the cover-up that the SNP government appears to be trying in the Holyrood enquiry which has its roots in the lack of separation of Govt, Justice system and Civil Service. The latter two seem to have been “captured and held hostage” by Sturgeon and her machiavellian husband.

Sturgeon wants a plebiscite on IndyRef2 to be added to the Holyrood MSP ballot papers. I expect Bozo will crush that desire forcefully.
 
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Archibald Knox said:
The SNP seems to have been captured in a Personality Cult-like process, with the spat between Salmond and Sturgeon a bit like the Night of the Long Knives. With most of the Scots chanting the Braveheart “Freeeeedom!” mantra, without accepting the real economic consequences of independence.

So, if they are that brainwashed, then DD’s speech is the opening salvo to discredit Sturgeon’s character and reputation in the run up to the Holyrood MSP elections in May. Hopefully, the other parliamentary parties will do their bit in assassinating her character as well. The SNP will still win, but if they lose some seats they cannot claim “overwhelming” support for their main policy.

It sounds as if there is plenty of evidence to open the Scots’ eyes. So far they have remained wilfully blind, though DD’s attack is right concerning the cover-up that the SNP government appears to be trying in the Holyrood enquiry which has its roots in the lack of separation of Govt, Justice system and Civil Service. The latter two seem to have been “captured and held hostage” by Sturgeon and her machiavellian husband.

Sturgeon wants a plebiscite on IndyRef2 to be added to the Holyrood MSP ballot papers. I expect Bozo will crush that desire forcefully.
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Not everyone who votes SNP supports independence. Krankie and Co ignore that at their peril.
 
The latest news today is that the Scottish Crown office has threatened the Spectator for publishing David Davis's speech to Parliament. They even tried to make them not tell anyone that they had been threatened!

Jackboots

In a Democracy, in this case, the only reason to redact or censor information is, rightly, to protect anyone who has made a complaint of sexual misconduct. It is not there to protect incompetence or worse.

I am surprised that this is not bigger news.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
The latest news today is that the Scottish Crown office has threatened the Spectator for publishing David Davis's speech to Parliament. They even tried to make them not tell anyone that they had been threatened!

Jackboots

In a Democracy, in this case, the only reason to redact or censor information is, rightly, to protect anyone who has made a complaint of sexual misconduct. It is not there to protect incompetence or worse.

I am surprised that this is not bigger news.
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Makes you wonder if other papers haven’t been threatened as well. I don’t recall seeing the DD speech to Parliament being published elsewhere.
 
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