THE MYTH OF MICK-BALL

BFC_BFC_BFC

BFC_BFC_BFC

Well-known member
I've read with interest over the last week from our collection of 'Armchair Analysts' about Mick McCarthy and his particular preferred formation and how our players won't fit into that formation etc. etc... So I thought I'd do a bit of analysis...

I've managed to pick up 378 Championship Games Played by Mick and 101 Premier League games, where the formation / tactics were detailed and here's the results

Championship

4-4-2

Certainly Mick's preferred shape, based upon this analysis, with him choosing to play a whopping 220 of the 378 games utilising the 4-4-2 system 225 If you also count 4-4-1-1.

4-3-3

Mick's next preferred shape is 4-3-3, having opted to go 4-3-3, 56 out of the 378 games.

4-2-3-1

After 4-3-3, Mick's next formation of choice is 4-2-3-1, having opted to play 33 of his 378 games that way

Overall 317 of his 378 Championship League games have been played with a back 4

Of the remaining games, he's played only 46 with a back 5 (marginally favouring 5-4-1 over 5-3-2), together with a handful of games with a back three (arguably the same thing).


Premier League

4-4-2

Yet again 4-4-2 comes out top of the pile (45/101)

4-5-1

Next up 4-5-1 (34/101)

4-2-3-1

Another favourite of Mick's (12/101)

A handful of games at 4-1-4-1 another handful at 4-3-3 and that's the joblot... No back 5 or 3 at all;...



So what can we make of all that?

I think first things first, you can never underestimate the propensity of our Armchair Analysts to be armed with ill informed bollocks..... Secondly, it seems pretty clear to me that Mick is more than pragmatic when it comes to finding a winning system and doesn't appear to be quite as set in his ways as we have been led to believe. 👍 👍
 
Last edited:
BFC x 3. good research & figures there. 👍
It will certainly be interesting to see what formation MMc adopts tomorrow.
Whatever he chooses there will be some who don't like it, and even might say 'I told you so'.
Let's just wait and see, and support whatever he does.
 
Decent research that and puts to bed the argument MM stubbornly plays 5 at the back.

'Of the remaining games, he's played only 46 with a back 5 (marginally favouring 5-4-1 over 5-4-2), together with a handful of games with a back three (arguably the same thing).'

Quick question about the 5-4-2 formation you mention, is that with a 'fly goalie' or do we get a goalkeeper as well as the 11 outfield players? If its the latter I'd definitely go with that 😉
 
HighfieldSeasider said:
Decent research that and puts to bed the argument MM stubbornly plays 5 at the back.

'Of the remaining games, he's played only 46 with a back 5 (marginally favouring 5-4-1 over 5-4-2), together with a handful of games with a back three (arguably the same thing).'

Quick question about the 5-4-2 formation you mention, is that with a 'fly goalie' or do we get a goalkeeper as well as the 11 outfield players? If its the latter I'd definitely go with that 😉
Click to expand...
😂 Sorry I’ll correct the typo 👍👍
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Of the remaining games, he's played only 46 with a back 5 (marginally favouring 5-4-1 over 5-3-2), together with a handful of games with a back three (arguably the same thing).
Click to expand...
I watched Boro v Watford last week and they were like flies round shite getting in behind their defence, who were just far too slow to react.

My own survival instinct for tomorrow would be 5-4-1. Pack our half and try to work to get an expectant crowd restless and their players trying to force the issue. We need to stop conceding the first goal. Ideally any goals but that's probably not possible this season. So damage limitation. Which could come in handy if it comes down to goal diff.

4-2-3-1 feels like it fits the players we have when trying to take the game to the opposition. Appleton was coming around to that idea after the WC break over his 4-1-2-3 thing. But he just couldn't sort the midfield balance out in front of the defence. Which was obvious from the second half of the first game of the season. Bright start, fade, opposition step up, forced errors, injuries, red cards etc
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I've read with interest over the last week from our collection of 'Armchair Analysts' about Mick McCarthy and his particular preferred formation and how our players won't fit into that formation etc. etc... So I thought I'd do a bit of analysis...
I've managed to pick up 378 Championship Games Played by Mick and 101 Premier League games, where the formation / tactics were detailed and here's the results

Championship

4-4-2

Certainly Mick's preferred shape, based upon this analysis, with him choosing to play a whopping 220 of the 378 games utilising the 4-4-2 system 225 If you also count 4-4-1-1.

4-3-3

Mick's next preferred shape is 4-3-3, having opted to go 4-3-3, 56 out of the 378 games.

4-2-3-1

After 4-3-3, Mick's next formation of choice is 4-2-3-1, having opted to play 33 of his 378 games that way

Overall 317 of his 378 Championship League games have been played with a back 4

Of the remaining games, he's played only 46 with a back 5 (marginally favouring 5-4-1 over 5-3-2), together with a handful of games with a back three (arguably the same thing).


Premier League

4-4-2

Yet again 4-4-2 comes out top of the pile (45/101)

4-5-1

Next up 4-5-1 (34/101)

4-2-3-1

Another favourite of Mick's (12/101)

A handful of games at 4-1-4-1 another handful at 4-3-3 and that's the joblot... No back 5 or 3 at all;...



So what can we make of all that?

I think first things first, you can never underestimate the propensity of our Armchair Analysts to be armed with ill informed bollocks..... Secondly, it seems pretty clear to me that Mick is more than pragmatic when it comes to finding a winning system and doesn't appear to be quite as set in his ways as we have been led to believe. 👍 👍
Click to expand...


That’s a great effort. Very useful. Thanks very much, but you do need to get out more.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I've read with interest over the last week from our collection of 'Armchair Analysts' about Mick McCarthy and his particular preferred formation and how our players won't fit into that formation etc. etc... So I thought I'd do a bit of analysis...

I've managed to pick up 378 Championship Games Played by Mick and 101 Premier League games, where the formation / tactics were detailed and here's the results

Championship

4-4-2

Certainly Mick's preferred shape, based upon this analysis, with him choosing to play a whopping 220 of the 378 games utilising the 4-4-2 system 225 If you also count 4-4-1-1.

4-3-3

Mick's next preferred shape is 4-3-3, having opted to go 4-3-3, 56 out of the 378 games.

4-2-3-1

After 4-3-3, Mick's next formation of choice is 4-2-3-1, having opted to play 33 of his 378 games that way

Overall 317 of his 378 Championship League games have been played with a back 4

Of the remaining games, he's played only 46 with a back 5 (marginally favouring 5-4-1 over 5-3-2), together with a handful of games with a back three (arguably the same thing).


Premier League

4-4-2

Yet again 4-4-2 comes out top of the pile (45/101)

4-5-1

Next up 4-5-1 (34/101)

4-2-3-1

Another favourite of Mick's (12/101)

A handful of games at 4-1-4-1 another handful at 4-3-3 and that's the joblot... No back 5 or 3 at all;...



So what can we make of all that?

I think first things first, you can never underestimate the propensity of our Armchair Analysts to be armed with ill informed bollocks..... Secondly, it seems pretty clear to me that Mick is more than pragmatic when it comes to finding a winning system and doesn't appear to be quite as set in his ways as we have been led to believe. 👍 👍
Click to expand...
No way, a certain poster was incorrect? I don’t believe it!
 
Well … Mick seems to have very good reason to want his opponents to know his forthcoming tactics 😉

“Hey everyone, we’re going to be playing 532, so don’t worry about man marking Josh Bowler”

In fairness we probably will go with a 5, away from home vs Boro, but I think we’ll be mixing it up in our remaining fixtures if we need to 👍
 
What a surprise, our resident shit stirrer was completely wrong again. Honestly I’m just going to start betting against anything he says and I’m sure I’ll make a killing.
 
Good research I have said on many of these mainly Phil’s threads that his preferred formation is 442. Wasn’t prepared to go back through 100s of games to prove it, so thanks for your efforts
 
Hazi said:
Good research I have said on many of these mainly Phil’s threads that his preferred formation is 442. Wasn’t prepared to go back through 100s of games to prove it, so thanks for your efforts
Click to expand...
A man after my own heart … 4-4-2 is the new 4-3-3👍
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I've read with interest over the last week from our collection of 'Armchair Analysts' about Mick McCarthy and his particular preferred formation and how our players won't fit into that formation etc. etc... So I thought I'd do a bit of analysis...

I've managed to pick up 378 Championship Games Played by Mick and 101 Premier League games, where the formation / tactics were detailed and here's the results

Championship

4-4-2

Certainly Mick's preferred shape, based upon this analysis, with him choosing to play a whopping 220 of the 378 games utilising the 4-4-2 system 225 If you also count 4-4-1-1.

4-3-3

Mick's next preferred shape is 4-3-3, having opted to go 4-3-3, 56 out of the 378 games.

4-2-3-1

After 4-3-3, Mick's next formation of choice is 4-2-3-1, having opted to play 33 of his 378 games that way

Overall 317 of his 378 Championship League games have been played with a back 4

Of the remaining games, he's played only 46 with a back 5 (marginally favouring 5-4-1 over 5-3-2), together with a handful of games with a back three (arguably the same thing).


Premier League

4-4-2

Yet again 4-4-2 comes out top of the pile (45/101)

4-5-1

Next up 4-5-1 (34/101)

4-2-3-1

Another favourite of Mick's (12/101)

A handful of games at 4-1-4-1 another handful at 4-3-3 and that's the joblot... No back 5 or 3 at all;...



So what can we make of all that?

I think first things first, you can never underestimate the propensity of our Armchair Analysts to be armed with ill informed bollocks..... Secondly, it seems pretty clear to me that Mick is more than pragmatic when it comes to finding a winning system and doesn't appear to be quite as set in his ways as we have been led to believe. 👍 👍
Click to expand...
But how, many games did he play Square pegs, in round holes?
 
poolfc said:
I watched Boro v Watford last week and they were like flies round shite getting in behind their defence, who were just far too slow to react.

My own survival instinct for tomorrow would be 5-4-1. Pack our half and try to work to get an expectant crowd restless and their players trying to force the issue. We need to stop conceding the first goal. Ideally any goals but that's probably not possible this season. So damage limitation. Which could come in handy if it comes down to goal diff.

4-2-3-1 feels like it fits the players we have when trying to take the game to the opposition. Appleton was coming around to that idea after the WC break over his 4-1-2-3 thing. But he just couldn't sort the midfield balance out in front of the defence. Which was obvious from the second half of the first game of the season. Bright start, fade, opposition step up, forced errors, injuries, red cards etc
Click to expand...
Do boro represent the flies, or the shite? (Also did Apples come up with that phrase after the WC break?)
 
Good work Bifster. 👍
I honestly thought we were playing 4-4-2 last week whilst I was watching the game.
Yes Hamilton played quite deep and from what I've seen of Lyons he certainly likes to get forward so that didn't surprise me and make me think they were "wing backs".
Bowler did seem a bit central but that was all I thought was a bit odd.
I'd certainly like to see 4-4-2 tomorrow and I'd like to see
Grimshaw
Connolly Goode Nelson Lyons (no lefties though!!)
Bowler Dougall Trybull Morgan Rogers.
Poveda Yates.
I don't expect to be right.
 
Last edited:
Insider said:
Good work Bifster. 👍
I honestly thought we were playing 4-4-2 last week whilst I was watching the game.
Yes Hamilton played quite deep and from what I've seen of Lyons he certainly likes to get forward so that didn't surprise me and make me think they were "wing backs".
Bowler did seem a bit central but that was all I thought was a bit odd.
I'd certainly like to see 4-4-2 tomorrow and I'd like to see
Grimshaw
Connolly Goode Nelson Lyons (no lefties though!!)
Bowler Dougall Trybull Morgan
Poveda Yates.
I don't expect to be right.
Click to expand...
Rogers Morgan or Morgan Rogers?

Was a 5-3-2 last week with Bowler on the right of the midfield three. Hamilton and Lyons as wingbacks. I got the idea but it looked like MM had filled his notepad by halftime.
 
poolfc said:
Rogers Morgan or Morgan Rogers?

Was a 5-3-2 last week with Bowler on the right of the midfield three. Hamilton and Lyons as wingbacks. I got the idea but it looked like MM had filled his notepad by halftime.
Click to expand...
Looked like a game of hangman with TC to me.
 
poolfc said:
They were the flies and the Watford defenders were the shite
Click to expand...
I've just watched the highlights of that game and you're right. What impressed me were the sheer number at players they committed to attack when they had the ball. That suggests two things. 1. We'll need the likes of Bowler and CJ/Rogers to do a lot of tracking back, not to mention Patino, if he plays, which is something they're not known for (possibly except for CJ. 2. Boro might be vulnerable to a quick break if they go a bit gung ho.
 
The OP berates opinions made on here and prefers to take unnamed sources with unkown knowledge from the internet as gospel. Another case of find something, anything quotable that backs up the prevalent agenda? Certainly seems that way.

He might be right or wrong, who knows?
 
fcblackpool said:
The OP berates opinions made on here and prefers to take unnamed sources with unkown knowledge from the internet as gospel. Another case of find something, anything quotable that backs up the prevalent agenda? Certainly seems that way.

He might be right or wrong, who knows?
Click to expand...
They’re not ‘unnamed’ sources, they’re match analysis, match report & personnel backed… Mick himself has even confirmed the tactics😂

Should we believe Mick or ‘bloke on AVFTT going off a brief spell of games at Cardiff’ ?

www.expressandstar.com

Mick McCarthy looking to 4-4-2

Wolves boss Mick McCarthy has re-iterated his desire to revert to 4-4-2 again this season.
www.expressandstar.com www.expressandstar.com
 
tangible said:
I've just watched the highlights of that game and you're right. What impressed me were the sheer number at players they committed to attack when they had the ball. That suggests two things. 1. We'll need the likes of Bowler and CJ/Rogers to do a lot of tracking back, not to mention Patino, if he plays, which is something they're not known for (possibly except for CJ. 2. Boro might be vulnerable to a quick break if they go a bit gung ho.
Click to expand...
Rapid aren't they. One of the strongest squads so no surprise with a bit of organisation and direction they've flown up the league. As long as we're not like we were in the home game against them where it looked like our players hadn't done any prep at all then it'll be something.
 
poolfc said:
Rogers Morgan or Morgan Rogers?

Was a 5-3-2 last week with Bowler on the right of the midfield three. Hamilton and Lyons as wingbacks. I got the idea but it looked like MM had filled his notepad by halftime.
Click to expand...
We're on first name terms. 😉
I know what was said about the formation but I just didn't immediately recognise it as such.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Ooh @fcblackpool heres Mick McCarthy just confirming that @BFC_BFC_BFC ’s analysis is absolutely spot on yet again.

A pragmatist, willing to find a system to suit 😉
Click to expand...
tbh I'm pulling your leg based on it would be the kind of retort you may make.

I'd imagine formations are taken from how they line up at KO rather than how they may change 2 minutes later. And to be honest, beyond the number of CB's (maybe 2 up top) it's difficult sometimes to say what shape it is because it's a bit more fluid changing depending on attacking or defending.
 
fcblackpool said:
tbh I'm pulling your leg based on it would be the kind of retort you may make.

I'd imagine formations are taken from how they line up at KO rather than how they may change 2 minutes later. And to be honest, beyond the number of CB's (maybe 2 up top) it's difficult sometimes to say what shape it is because it's a bit more fluid changing depending on attacking or defending.
Click to expand...
Fair play… I’m a bit trigger happy today… 😉

Yep.. probably starting formations, but the key point I’m making here is that Mick is pragmatic when it comes to systems… And if he does have a ‘leaning’ over the course of his career, it hasn’t been to 3/5 at the back.

From what I can see he’s been willing to evolve his style and system to keep up with changes in the game generally and, of course, to get the most out of what he has available.

I think that’s a good reason to be positive 👍
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I've read with interest over the last week from our collection of 'Armchair Analysts' about Mick McCarthy and his particular preferred formation and how our players won't fit into that formation etc. etc... So I thought I'd do a bit of analysis...

I've managed to pick up 378 Championship Games Played by Mick and 101 Premier League games, where the formation / tactics were detailed and here's the results

Championship

4-4-2

Certainly Mick's preferred shape, based upon this analysis, with him choosing to play a whopping 220 of the 378 games utilising the 4-4-2 system 225 If you also count 4-4-1-1.

4-3-3

Mick's next preferred shape is 4-3-3, having opted to go 4-3-3, 56 out of the 378 games.

4-2-3-1

After 4-3-3, Mick's next formation of choice is 4-2-3-1, having opted to play 33 of his 378 games that way

Overall 317 of his 378 Championship League games have been played with a back 4

Of the remaining games, he's played only 46 with a back 5 (marginally favouring 5-4-1 over 5-3-2), together with a handful of games with a back three (arguably the same thing).


Premier League

4-4-2

Yet again 4-4-2 comes out top of the pile (45/101)

4-5-1

Next up 4-5-1 (34/101)

4-2-3-1

Another favourite of Mick's (12/101)

A handful of games at 4-1-4-1 another handful at 4-3-3 and that's the joblot... No back 5 or 3 at all;...



So what can we make of all that?

I think first things first, you can never underestimate the propensity of our Armchair Analysts to be armed with ill informed bollocks..... Secondly, it seems pretty clear to me that Mick is more than pragmatic when it comes to finding a winning system and doesn't appear to be quite as set in his ways as we have been led to believe. 👍 👍
Click to expand...
Yes but has he played any with a right half, a left half an inside right and an inside left? 🧐
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Fair play… I’m a bit trigger happy today… 😉

Yep.. probably starting formations, but the key point I’m making here is that Mick is pragmatic when it comes to systems… And if he does have a ‘leaning’ over the course of his career, it hasn’t been to 3/5 at the back.

From what I can see he’s been willing to evolve his style and system to keep up with changes in the game generally and, of course, to get the most out of what he has available.

I think that’s a good reason to be positive 👍
Click to expand...
As I've posted a couple of times over the last few days, Mickey Mac has to adapt to the players he has at his disposal. That to me means 2 CB' and 1DCM. Think he'll start with a no lose mentality though.

2pm tomorrow is going to be very interesting.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I've read with interest over the last week from our collection of 'Armchair Analysts' about Mick McCarthy and his particular preferred formation and how our players won't fit into that formation etc. etc... So I thought I'd do a bit of analysis...

I've managed to pick up 378 Championship Games Played by Mick and 101 Premier League games, where the formation / tactics were detailed and here's the results

Championship

4-4-2

Certainly Mick's preferred shape, based upon this analysis, with him choosing to play a whopping 220 of the 378 games utilising the 4-4-2 system 225 If you also count 4-4-1-1.

4-3-3

Mick's next preferred shape is 4-3-3, having opted to go 4-3-3, 56 out of the 378 games.

4-2-3-1

After 4-3-3, Mick's next formation of choice is 4-2-3-1, having opted to play 33 of his 378 games that way

Overall 317 of his 378 Championship League games have been played with a back 4

Of the remaining games, he's played only 46 with a back 5 (marginally favouring 5-4-1 over 5-3-2), together with a handful of games with a back three (arguably the same thing).


Premier League

4-4-2

Yet again 4-4-2 comes out top of the pile (45/101)

4-5-1

Next up 4-5-1 (34/101)

4-2-3-1

Another favourite of Mick's (12/101)

A handful of games at 4-1-4-1 another handful at 4-3-3 and that's the joblot... No back 5 or 3 at all;...



So what can we make of all that?

I think first things first, you can never underestimate the propensity of our Armchair Analysts to be armed with ill informed bollocks..... Secondly, it seems pretty clear to me that Mick is more than pragmatic when it comes to finding a winning system and doesn't appear to be quite as set in his ways as we have been led to believe. 👍 👍
Click to expand...
Whatever you do, don't ** tell Phil 🤦
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I've read with interest over the last week from our collection of 'Armchair Analysts' about Mick McCarthy and his particular preferred formation and how our players won't fit into that formation etc. etc... So I thought I'd do a bit of analysis...

I've managed to pick up 378 Championship Games Played by Mick and 101 Premier League games, where the formation / tactics were detailed and here's the results

Championship

4-4-2

Certainly Mick's preferred shape, based upon this analysis, with him choosing to play a whopping 220 of the 378 games utilising the 4-4-2 system 225 If you also count 4-4-1-1.

4-3-3

Mick's next preferred shape is 4-3-3, having opted to go 4-3-3, 56 out of the 378 games.

4-2-3-1

After 4-3-3, Mick's next formation of choice is 4-2-3-1, having opted to play 33 of his 378 games that way

Overall 317 of his 378 Championship League games have been played with a back 4

Of the remaining games, he's played only 46 with a back 5 (marginally favouring 5-4-1 over 5-3-2), together with a handful of games with a back three (arguably the same thing).


Premier League

4-4-2

Yet again 4-4-2 comes out top of the pile (45/101)

4-5-1

Next up 4-5-1 (34/101)

4-2-3-1

Another favourite of Mick's (12/101)

A handful of games at 4-1-4-1 another handful at 4-3-3 and that's the joblot... No back 5 or 3 at all;...



So what can we make of all that?

I think first things first, you can never underestimate the propensity of our Armchair Analysts to be armed with ill informed bollocks..... Secondly, it seems pretty clear to me that Mick is more than pragmatic when it comes to finding a winning system and doesn't appear to be quite as set in his ways as we have been led to believe. 👍 👍
Click to expand...
You've accounted for less than 50% of the games he's managed

Allegedly In the other 549 matches he did favour an 8-1-1 formation 😉
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
He already knows…. Since reading the thread earlier today, I have it I good authority he’s frantically fast forwarding through Big Mick’s back catalogue (recorded on Betamax) searching for evidence to prove me wrong .

Should be a fun evening ahead 👍
Click to expand...
I'm confident he'll be able to pull some kind of negative swing... probably something to do with the inadequate owner/board? Or maybe that appy could do a better job? You know... the usual.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I've read with interest over the last week from our collection of 'Armchair Analysts' about Mick McCarthy and his particular preferred formation and how our players won't fit into that formation etc. etc... So I thought I'd do a bit of analysis...

I've managed to pick up 378 Championship Games Played by Mick and 101 Premier League games, where the formation / tactics were detailed and here's the results

Championship

4-4-2

Certainly Mick's preferred shape, based upon this analysis, with him choosing to play a whopping 220 of the 378 games utilising the 4-4-2 system 225 If you also count 4-4-1-1.

4-3-3

Mick's next preferred shape is 4-3-3, having opted to go 4-3-3, 56 out of the 378 games.

4-2-3-1

After 4-3-3, Mick's next formation of choice is 4-2-3-1, having opted to play 33 of his 378 games that way

Overall 317 of his 378 Championship League games have been played with a back 4

Of the remaining games, he's played only 46 with a back 5 (marginally favouring 5-4-1 over 5-3-2), together with a handful of games with a back three (arguably the same thing).


Premier League

4-4-2

Yet again 4-4-2 comes out top of the pile (45/101)

4-5-1

Next up 4-5-1 (34/101)

4-2-3-1

Another favourite of Mick's (12/101)

A handful of games at 4-1-4-1 another handful at 4-3-3 and that's the joblot... No back 5 or 3 at all;...



So what can we make of all that?

I think first things first, you can never underestimate the propensity of our Armchair Analysts to be armed with ill informed bollocks..... Secondly, it seems pretty clear to me that Mick is more than pragmatic when it comes to finding a winning system and doesn't appear to be quite as set in his ways as we have been led to believe. 👍 👍
Click to expand...
Good post with informative numbers, but it's no ppgwjhalb.
 
td53 said:
Good post with informative numbers, but it's no ppgwjhalb.
Click to expand...
Talking of ppgwjhalb’s , I noted with interest during Mad Mick’s prematch interview on Tangerine TV (subscribers only edition) that Mick mentioned our ‘Stats’…

They’ve all been a bit disappointing apparently… 😉
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Talking of ppgwjhalb’s , I noted with interest during Mad Mick’s prematch interview on Tangerine TV (subscribers only edition) that Mick mentioned our ‘Stats’…

They’ve all been a bit disappointing apparently… 😉
Click to expand...
Being serious, good stuff in the OP and all that, but could you now further develop those in terms in time ie 2012-13 games played 46 formation etc etc?

It would be interesting to see whether he's had periods of formations and the like. And if has chopped and changed a bit.

Well, gone on, chop chop. The original only took 5-10 mins😉
 
fcblackpool said:
Being serious, good stuff in the OP and all that, but could you now further develop those in terms in time ie 2012-13 games played 46 formation etc etc?

It would be interesting to see whether he's had periods of formations and the like. And if has chopped and changed a bit.

Well, gone on, chop chop. The original only took 5-10 mins😉
Click to expand...
I’m just picking up a Chinese, but I might do it in a bit…👍
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top