The Slow Down Of The Vaccine Rollout

It strikes me that fair questions are immediately slapped down as negative. Just believe folks!
It's all going to be fine on the covid and brexit front, please do not ask any further questions or make valid points, it must be crushed by an iron fist
 
Shandypants said:
It strikes me that fair questions are immediately slapped down as negative. Just believe folks!
It's all going to be fine on the covid and brexit front, please do not ask any further questions or make valid points, it must be crushed by an iron fist
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I think the questions about the Pfizer vaccine are reasonable and I also think the suggestion in the BMJ blog is a good one.
If we did that then we could get numbers to base the decisions on. However the point at the moment is to ease pressure on the NHS and giving one dose of the vaccine spreads the potential cases out so it has to be a good thing regardless.
We can also re vaccinate later if needed. In any case it sounds like we will have to have regular jabs for the forseeable, we have no chance of eradicating this disease in the short term and it will keep mutating. A possible plus in this pandemic, is that anti-vaxxers will possibly be seen for what they are, selfish anti science nutters who want to take a free ride on the shoulders of the sane population. I am sure that when proof of vaccination is needed to travel then many of them will change their views.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
I think the questions about the Pfizer vaccine are reasonable and I also think the suggestion in the BMJ blog is a good one.
If we did that then we could get numbers to base the decisions on. However the point at the moment is to ease pressure on the NHS and giving one dose of the vaccine spreads the potential cases out so it has to be a good thing regardless.
We can also re vaccinate later if needed. In any case it sounds like we will have to have regular jabs for the forseeable, we have no chance of eradicating this disease in the short term and it will keep mutating. A possible plus in this pandemic, is that anti-vaxxers will possibly be seen for what they are, selfish anti science nutters who want to take a free ride on the shoulders of the sane population. I am sure that when proof of vaccination is needed to travel then many of them will change their views.
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Saga Cruises/Holidays have just said no Vaccination..no holiday.....if all the Holiday companies follow suit then that will test the Tinfoil hat/Anti vaxers resolve.
 
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Towerpower99 said:
Saga Cruises/Holidays have just said no Vaccination..no holiday.....if all the Holiday companies follow suit then that will test the Tinfoil hat/Anti vaxers resolve.
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I'm not an anti-vaxxer but told them to Foxtrot Oscar yesterday when offered this one. I'll get over the fact I can't ever go on a Saga coach trip eventually as time is a great healer.
 
Chris Smith the Virologist off the Tv was happy with the gap between the first and second jab quoting that the immune system doesn't have a clock ticking away in it.
It's the right thing to do get as many vaccinated soon as possible the problem now that vaccine centres are having is keeping an eye on who has what because Oxford and Pfizer are both being delivered and you can't mix them up for first and second vaccine.
 
poolseasider said:
Chris Smith the Virologist off the Tv was happy with the gap between the first and second jab quoting that the immune system doesn't have a clock ticking away in it.
It's the right thing to do get as many vaccinated soon as possible the problem now that vaccine centres are having is keeping an eye on who has what because Oxford and Pfizer are both being delivered and you can't mix them up for first and second vaccine.
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Keeping track of who’s had what and when will be a challenge to the NHS in particular to ensure that the 2nd doses are given in the 12 week window, so the administration of the programme is vitally important.
 
rockontommy said:
I'm not an anti-vaxxer but told them to Foxtrot Oscar yesterday when offered this one. I'll get over the fact I can't ever go on a Saga coach trip eventually as time is a great healer.
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That is your right and I respect that but could you please let me know if you come within two metres of me?
 
I'm pretty sure the number of vaccines delivered yesterday was getting on towards 400,000.
Lets just hope the emergency services can prevent the Wrexham factory where they make the phials from flooding.
Bad news from the Israelis though who think the efficacy of a single dose of the Pfizer job might only give 33% efficacy.
 
rockontommy said:
I'm not an anti-vaxxer but told them to Foxtrot Oscar yesterday when offered this one. I'll get over the fact I can't ever go on a Saga coach trip eventually as time is a great healer.
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Not everyone that is sceptical about these ongoing jabs is a conspiracy theorist anti vaxxer. Some of us are just more reluctant to pop pills and take prescribed medications.
I try to avoid food that has additives in it sosomething like these jabs which will probably be around as an annual thing do concern me.
Are we now going to start calling people with poor lifestyle choices that have caused them to be overweight selfish, because covid is more of a problem for them and therefore more likely to put them in hospital?
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
I think the reason is that they don't want one of their cruise ships becoming a floating morgue / plague pit as happened last year to a cruise ship.
They don't have to provide a reason but I would say in this case it is pretty obvious.
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No requirement for the flu vaccine though?
 
Wizaard said:
The reasoning is they dont want people with covid on their ships.
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I understand that. Having a vaccination that prevents severe disease is not necessarily going to stop that though? They do require covid tests prior to the trip though.
 
Loco said:
I understand that. Having a vaccination that prevents severe disease is not necessarily going to stop that though? They do require covid tests prior to the trip though.
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Obviously going to help with the marketing of the cruises as many people think vaccination provides 100% protection.
 
Loco said:
I understand that. Having a vaccination that prevents severe disease is not necessarily going to stop that though? They do require covid tests prior to the trip though.
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From what the data tells us, no one who has had the AZ vaccine has ended up in hospital (there are similar results for the other vaccines). So if everyone on the cruise is vaccinated then everyone should survive the cruise fit and well EVEN if covid is circulating on the boat. And that, I would guess, is the reason for the new rules. Testing people is not as thorough because tests can be false negatives and people can contract covid after the test yet before boarding.
 
Loco said:
Yes, I think they should provide a reason because it's setting a precedent.
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The Saga CEO was on SkyNews (Ian King live) and explained the decision.

He said....

‘They surveyed their client base and 98% wanted the rule and when they surveyed the potential client base 93% wanted it. We then surveyed our 62 biggest sellers (travel agents) and 61 out of 62 wanted it’

So it’s first a more sensible commercial decision as well as a safety one.

When pushed on the staff he admitted not all staff will have had it, but they are working on them getting it thorough the Philippines’ as that’s where their biggest amount of staff come from.
 
There's a fair bit of hysteria on Facebook from anti-vaxers. They need to realise, they probably owe their own life to vaccination. Without vaccinations over the past 200+ years, most people alive today, wouldn't be here.

They also need to realise that it is nothing new to prevent people from participating in activities if they haven't yet been vaccinated. Even way back in the 1800's there have been Vacination Acts from government forcing the whole population to be vaccinated against certain diseases. Also, there are whole countries you cannot visit unless you have had for example a Yellow Fever vaccination. The precedent for this was set many generations ago.
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
There's a fair bit of hysteria on Facebook from anti-vaxers. They need to realise, they probably owe their own life to vaccination. Without vaccinations over the past 200+ years, most people alive today, wouldn't be here.

They also need to realise that it is nothing new to prevent people from participating in activities if they haven't yet been vaccinated. Even way back in the 1800's there have been Vacination Acts from government forcing the whole population to be vaccinated against certain diseases. Also, there are whole countries you cannot visit unless you have had for example a Yellow Fever vaccination. The precedent for this was set many generations ago.
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I know when l went to Majorca in 1971 l had to have a cholera and typhoid vaccinations and had to have the certificates with me just in case. Not sure whether this was a mandatory requirement at the time or more for safety reasons.
 
TangerineBayern said:
I know when l went to Majorca in 1971 l had to have a cholera and typhoid vaccinations and had to have the certificates with me just in case. Not sure whether this was a mandatory requirement at the time or more for safety reasons.
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Maybe it was down to your hygiene?




😂😂😂😂😂😊😜😜😜😜😜👍
 
seasideone said:
The Saga CEO was on SkyNews (Ian King live) and explained the decision.

He said....

‘They surveyed their client base and 98% wanted the rule and when they surveyed the potential client base 93% wanted it. We then surveyed our 62 biggest sellers (travel agents) and 61 out of 62 wanted it’

So it’s first a more sensible commercial decision as well as a safety one.

When pushed on the staff he admitted not all staff will have had it, but they are working on them getting it thorough the Philippines’ as that’s where their biggest amount of staff come from.
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Thanks for that. Appreciate that some of you may think it was too simple a question.
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
There's a fair bit of hysteria on Facebook from anti-vaxers. They need to realise, they probably owe their own life to vaccination. Without vaccinations over the past 200+ years, most people alive today, wouldn't be here.

They also need to realise that it is nothing new to prevent people from participating in activities if they haven't yet been vaccinated. Even way back in the 1800's there have been Vacination Acts from government forcing the whole population to be vaccinated against certain diseases. Also, there are whole countries you cannot visit unless you have had for example a Yellow Fever vaccination. The precedent for this was set many generations ago.
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I've had my yellow fever vaccination and have a certificate to prove it. Could prove useful if mossies down south start carrying it, with the climate heating up. It's a bit different to the covid one though as it provides long-term immunity.
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
There's a fair bit of hysteria on Facebook from anti-vaxers. They need to realise, they probably owe their own life to vaccination. Without vaccinations over the past 200+ years, most people alive today, wouldn't be here.

They also need to realise that it is nothing new to prevent people from participating in activities if they haven't yet been vaccinated. Even way back in the 1800's there have been Vacination Acts from government forcing the whole population to be vaccinated against certain diseases. Also, there are whole countries you cannot visit unless you have had for example a Yellow Fever vaccination. The precedent for this was set many generations ago.
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Hysteria on both sides of the fence tbh. I've watched with amusement colleagues laminating their appointment cards this morning. I suggested maybe framing it alongside a commemorative photo of the special day.
 
Tangerinetiltingatwindmil said:
Poison chalice for our government.
I know 2 people within my family circle who have had the vaccine.
This will go on week on week
Until we can’t count how many people we know have had on he vaccine.
The word is optimism.
The future is bright.
Let’s look forward.
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That is a great post mate and the word “optimism” gives me an inner glow. 👍
I have said all along that a lot of people are far too quick to lay the blame on the Government when in fact, despite all the Tier restrictions and advice on staying safe, a heck of a lot of people quite simply ignore it all.
You can bet your bottom dollar though that those same people will be jumping at the opportunity to get the vaccine.
 
rockontommy said:
Hysteria on both sides of the fence tbh. I've watched with amusement colleagues laminating their appointment cards this morning. I suggested maybe framing it alongside a commemorative photo of the special day.
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That is not hysteria, it's common sense.
They may well need that card to visit say a restaurant or a pub in the near future. Remember it is up to the proprietor's discretion who can enter those premises, I wouldn't be a surprised to see a lot of them doing this.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
That is not hysteria, it's common sense.
They may well need that card to visit say a restaurant or a pub in the near future. Remember it is up to the proprietor's discretion who can enter those premises, I wouldn't be a surprised to see a lot of them doing this.
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We shall see, won't we...

Aside from it being discriminatory and likely illegal and businesses in need of all the custom they can take and the vaccine not preventing transmission anyway and anyone being able to knock up their own version of the card and the country being thoroughly sick of all things Covid-related ... apart from all of that, I think you may be right 👍🏻
 
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ElBurroSinNombre said:
That is not hysteria, it's common sense.
They may well need that card to visit say a restaurant or a pub in the near future. Remember it is up to the proprietor's discretion who can enter those premises, I wouldn't be a surprised to see a lot of them doing this.
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Not just pubs / restaurants
As and when we start face-to-face appointments again we are likely to insist on a vaccine certificate - particularly with our older clients
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
That is not hysteria, it's common sense.
They may well need that card to visit say a restaurant or a pub in the near future. Remember it is up to the proprietor's discretion who can enter those premises, I wouldn't be a surprised to see a lot of them doing this.
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The vast majority of people have immune systems strong enough to fight this off. Those who don't are, quite rightly, being vaccinated. It's going to take a long time to do everyone. At what stage in the rollout do we decide that you need a vax certificate to go to the pub, or on holiday? Are there going to be a lot of frustrated young, healthy folk still in the queue waiting? I'm just asking questions, not taking a stance (well apart from most people will fight it off - that's from listening to Chris Whitty).
 
TwelveAngryMen said:
Not just pubs / restaurants
As and when we start face-to-face appointments again we are likely to insist on a vaccine certificate - particularly with our older clients
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Unless it’s a proper official watermarked or similar document it’s worthless.

....as we can all laminate a downloaded printed card - or it will be available on a sea front near you👍
 
rockontommy said:
We shall see, won't we...

Aside from it being discriminatory and likely illegal and businesses in need of all the custom they can take and the vaccine not preventing transmission anyway and anyone being able to knock up their own version of the card and the country being thoroughly sick of all things Covid-related ... apart from all of that, I think you may be right 👍🏻
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A pub landlord can bar anyone he / she wants, there is no legal redress.
I think the same goes for restaurants.
In effect, they can set their own rules on their own premises.

Pub licensee's right to reject custom

A pub landlord is not obliged to serve anyone who comes in and is willing to pay, says Peter Coulson.
www.morningadvertiser.co.uk www.morningadvertiser.co.uk
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
That is not hysteria, it's common sense.
They may well need that card to visit say a restaurant or a pub in the near future. Remember it is up to the proprietor's discretion who can enter those premises, I wouldn't be a surprised to see a lot of them doing this.
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it will become law imo. And it would be right for the business as well. Customer confidence.
 
TangerineBayern said:
I know when l went to Majorca in 1971 l had to have a cholera and typhoid vaccinations and had to have the certificates with me just in case. Not sure whether this was a mandatory requirement at the time or more for safety reasons.
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We went on a trip to Holland in the late 70s and had to have polio top ups before we went because there was an outbreak there.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
A pub landlord can bar anyone he / she wants, there is no legal redress.
I think the same goes for restaurants.
In effect, they can set their own rules on their own premises.

Pub licensee's right to reject custom

A pub landlord is not obliged to serve anyone who comes in and is willing to pay, says Peter Coulson.
www.morningadvertiser.co.uk www.morningadvertiser.co.uk
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Not strictly true because whilst you can exclude as you can't unlawfully discriminate in the provision of services - however that is only against those with a protected characteristic such as a disability

There is however a defence of justification and I would say that requiring evidence of vaccination as a condition of entry to certain shops / venues etc set against what we have been through is perfectly reasonable
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
A pub landlord can bar anyone he / she wants, there is no legal redress.
I think the same goes for restaurants.
In effect, they can set their own rules on their own premises.

Pub licensee's right to reject custom

A pub landlord is not obliged to serve anyone who comes in and is willing to pay, says Peter Coulson.
www.morningadvertiser.co.uk www.morningadvertiser.co.uk
Click to expand...
Plus the self-entitled anti vaxxing twats will probably sue anyone that they inevitably catch the virus from.
 
Here's the calculator to find out when you'll likely get vaccinated.

www.omnicalculator.com

Vaccine Queue Calculator for the UK

The vaccine queue calculator for the UK estimates where you are in the queue to get your COVID vaccine based on your age, health, and job.
www.omnicalculator.com www.omnicalculator.com
 
Interesting piece at lunch time on the Israeli data - it may actually be good news.
The 33% figure of efficacy was for the first 14 days from vaccination. This figure suggests that some vaxxees (one third) are getting some protection before 14 days (which was supposed to be the minimum time to for the vaccine to have an effect). So actually if the other post 14 day efficacy figures remain as first reported this could mean that the vaccine is actually more effective than first thought (i.e. it starts protecting sooner at least for some).
There is still a long way to go with this. The report also mentioned that Israel offered to report all relevant information to Pfizer in return for getting the vaccine before other countries. In effect they are running a large scale clinical trial on the population of Israel. It makes sense, a smallish population of 10 million and the health and informatics infrastructure alongside an educated workforce to carry it out. The results from this will be very interesting and maybe what we heard this week isn't actually bad news. Here's hoping!
 
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Let's hope the "I've Been Vaccinated" cards are a little harder to come by than the sunflower lanyards available on ebay for £3.
 
If it is to become law, then it should only come in after the whole population has been offered the vaccine.
 
I was given a card on my 1st (and only so far) injection. It says 'make sure you keep this record card in your purse or wallet'.
It also says :-
Name of vaccine. 'Pfizer Bio Tech'. Batch no. (looks like) EJ0724_L456. Date 22.12.2020.
 
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