Train Strikes

McG_BFC

McG_BFC

Well-known member
Always support anyone's right to strike but anyone else feel uncomfortable with the latest dates announced. I already know two people who have had their Xmas plans ruined by this.
 
Stupid move, doesn’t affect me, but it will upset a lot of people. There will be an impact on the roads as well. They’ll lose public support, but it seems to me they’re intent on having a war with the government.
 
Matesrates said:
Stupid move, doesn’t affect me, but it will upset a lot of people. There will be an impact on the roads as well. They’ll lose public support, but it seems to me they’re intent on having a war with the government.
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Or the government are intent on having a war with the strikers.
This dispute could have been resolved months ago if the government allowed the rail companies to negotiate with the unions. Many private sector companies have avoided action by negotiating fair pay rises with their staff. I don't like the strike action but it is almost always a last resort for the workers, remember they lose pay as a result as well as causing disruption.
The failure to negotiate reach a mutual agreement is IMO a deliberate government policy - they are doing this in several industries. Then they will present a strikers vs. strivers argument to the public, workers vs shirkers and try to put Labour on the wrong side of the argument. It's very cynical and shows what regard they have for the general public. As an example take Zahawi's disgusting smear on nurses the other day, as if nurses are now enemies of the state because they are exercising their right to strike.
 
Planned strikes by:

Rail workers
Nurses
Royal Mail
Teachers in Scotland (England subject to Ballot)
University Staff
Airport Baggage Handlers
Driving Examiners

Possibly added to by:

Border Force
Paramedics
Junior Doctors
London bus drivers
 
Hertsseasider said:
Planned strikes by:

Rail workers
Nurses
Royal Mail
Teachers in Scotland (England subject to Ballot)
University Staff
Airport Baggage Handlers
Driving Examiners

Possibly added to by:

Border Force
Paramedics
Junior Doctors
London bus drivers
Click to expand...
Yes. There are reasons for this (I don't think you're disputing that?)...and I support them all. They all deserve more pay than they're currently being offered - although probably not as much as their initial bargaining point.
 
Grinch, when interviewed this morning on radio 4 said, the government are subsidising the losses the train companies are making and won't allow the companies to settle.

I thought he had, all along, said that there was plenty of money in the train companies and they can afford the rise. (8 percent above inflation I understand), so which is it?
 
Hertsseasider said:
Planned strikes by:

Rail workers
Nurses
Royal Mail
Teachers in Scotland (England subject to Ballot)
University Staff
Airport Baggage Handlers
Driving Examiners

Possibly added to by:

Border Force
Paramedics
Junior Doctors
London bus drivers
Click to expand...
All these workers planning to strike why don’t they find a job with the pay that they want .Instead of fooking up the lives of everyone else and dragging the country down.
 
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Matesrates said:
Stupid move, doesn’t affect me, but it will upset a lot of people. There will be an impact on the roads as well. They’ll lose public support, but it seems to me they’re intent on having a war with the government.
Click to expand...
I think it's more of a case that the Government are hellbent on a war with the unions. It's the early 80s all over again.
 
Hertsseasider said:
Planned strikes by:

Rail workers
Nurses
Royal Mail
Teachers in Scotland (England subject to Ballot)
University Staff
Airport Baggage Handlers
Driving Examiners

Possibly added to by:

Border Force
Paramedics
Junior Doctors
London bus drivers
Click to expand...
Civil Servants have also been balloted and will be having selective strike action.
 
Wizaard said:
I think it's more of a case that the Government are hellbent on a war with the unions. It's the early 80s all over again.
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It could also be construed that it is the Unions being hell bent on a war with the government Phil. It takes two to tango and neither side will be coming out of this smelling of roses.
 
Curryman said:
It could also be construed that it is the Unions being hell bent on a war with the government Phil. It takes two to tango and neither side will be coming out of this smelling of roses.
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Final offer of 4% and thousands of redundancies on the railway seems like a full declaration of war, and why should the unions not defend their members' interests? That's their job.
 
This is the Government's doing. It's as clear as day. The RMT negotiated with the employers some time ago but the Government refused to let the employers conclude negotiations. The language of the senior Tories has been all about Labour's Union paymasters and union barons. It's deliberately the language of the 1970s designed to tempt the public away from voting Labour. The Tories have no interest in the ordinary citizens of the UK getting a fair deal over pay. They call it inflationary. Well, so are rapidly increasing prices for goods and services, yet I don't see them getting around the table with the IoD and the CBI to negotiate price restraints.
 
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1966_and_all_that said:
This is the Government's doing. It's as clear as day. The RMT negotiated with the employers some time ago but the Government refused to let the employers to conclude negotiations. The language of the senior Tories has been all about Labour's Union paymasters and union barons. It's deliberately the language of the 1970s designed to tempt the public away from voting Labour. The Tories have no interest in the ordinary citizens of the UK getting a fair deal over pay. They call it inflationary. Well, so are rapidly increasing prices for goods and services, yet I don't see them getting around the table with the IoD and the CBI to negotiate price restraints.
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While voting in the scrapping on the cap on bankers' bonuses.
 
Curryman said:
It could also be construed that it is the Unions being hell bent on a war with the government Phil. It takes two to tango and neither side will be coming out of this smelling of roses.
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If you work for a living (not born into privilege) can't fathom Union bashing, without them we'd have been in a right state. Why do you think the rail workers are taking action? Why....
 
Wizaard said:
Civil Servants have also been balloted and will be having selective strike action.
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Nobody gives a **** about us Wiz.

Despite the fact we worked through the pandemic and have received a pay rise so far below inflation it‘s laughable.

The public won’t support us though, despite the fact there would be more unrest caused if the customers payments weren’t made than any train strike could cause.
 
Lala said:
Nobody gives a **** about us Wiz.

Despite the fact we worked through the pandemic and have received a pay rise so far below inflation it‘s laughable.

The public won’t support us though, despite the fact there would be more unrest caused if the customers payments weren’t made than any train strike could cause.
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Civil Servants have been villified by politicians and some parts of the press for decades. It’s no wonder many people have a negative attitude towards them, and are indifferent to what they would lose if let’s say 90,000 were to be suddenly asked to leave on a whim, or if all the others were to withdrew their labour.
I am pretty sure they would be quick to complain about the consequences though.
 
glasshalffull said:
Civil Servants have been villified by politicians and some parts of the press for decades. It’s no wonder many people have a negative attitude towards them, and are indifferent to what they would lose if let’s say 90,000 were to be suddenly asked to leave on a whim, or if all the others were to withdrew their labour.
I am pretty sure they would be quick to complain about the consequences though.
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With the most ironc thing about the whole situation being that politicians themselves, are infact, civil servants!
 
I have two grown children, one a single mother and civil servant, the other who works for a group of solicitors. Both have there own houses.

She works from home but is expected to travel to Leeds three times a fortnight to fulfill her contract. This is done by train. She also has two children at a grammar school some miles away, one who due to a serious skin complaint for which he has been receiving private specialist treatment in London, is now also having problems with his personality and therefore needs to slowly recover his daily routine of attending school and mixing with others. A mild case of social phobia. This results in him needing to be driven to school and then picked up at lunchtimes, which we assist in doing, but he takes a train home if it isn't too busy at Lunchtime and requires a pick up from the station. Obviously the train strikes cause problems for all of them.

My son works in Leeds and uses the train daily, he earns just above the minimum wage but manages, with some help from us, to survive in his own house he cannot claim any benefits as he is just above the threshold. he cannot work from home due to his job and during rail strikes has to rely on a bus, which is often late and takes over four times as long to reach Leeds, thus extending his work day both morning and night.

Each rail strike causes them both a great deal of stress and inconvenience, so for the Union to state that they don't want to inconvenience the general public yet call strikes at the most inconvenient time for those who rely on the trains is just a load of tosh.

Britain’s top-earning trade union bosses took home an average of almost £145,000 in the year ending 2019, the average remuneration was up by about 10 per cent on the previous year, almost double the rise in median gross earnings for full-time employees who did not move jobs.
In addition, union officials in the public sector were paid at least £85.9 million while carrying out union duties at work. (a report from the taxpayers alliance). So they will be earning well over that now and costing the public purse a lot more.

I'm aware that I will be cursed, called all sorts of names and no doubt be labelled a RWNJ, which I am not, and was at one time a Union Official myself, but I honestly feel that holding the general public to ransom is diabolical.

As for working practices on the railways, Beeching was confronted by such a problem in the early sixties with a lot of the practices he came across belonging to the Victorian era, some I understand, still remain and unfortunately railways will, like all other businesses, have to move with the times if they are not to be lost.

OK let the attack dogs out, I've stated my opinion and I stick by it.
 
When you read about the reasons for the train strikes, it isn't just about pay. The government is offering a rise, 4% this year and possible 4% next year but with lots of conditions, one being if they agree to no future industrial action, and the scrapping of train guards. Would you want to be a driver on the last trains home on the weekend on your own? As a passenger, would you be comfortable with drivers setting off etc without a guard letting them know it was safe to? How about if you were disabled, or had a serious issue on the train/ they're striking because of conditions and not just pay.

There are always two sides to a story, and as usual the government have had months and months to sort this out, but are now trawling out that the unions and railway staff want to ruin everyone's Christmas.
 
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Public sector workers have taken real terms pay cuts for years. Now that inflation is above 10% most of them are asking for pay rises that don't shrink their real terms pay when inflation is taken into account. Most of the time what they are offered is well below the rate of inflation. Private sector companies are paying something closer to the rate of inflation. Interestingly, the government has raised pensions and benefits in line with inflation, seemingly rewarding those not in work more than those that run our services. This is despite their rhetoric (strivers vs skivers etc.) and amazingly it turns out that old aged pensioners are more likely to vote Conservative than those in work.

At the same time as making their employees poorer in real terms, rail companies are paying billions in dividends to shareholders who are often not even based in this country. The system is broken, there has been a free market free for all for too long. Most of our basic infrastructure is foreign owned, that's okay except when you have a crisis. Workforces have been squeezed and squeezed to create more profit (and dividends) for share holders. It is no surprise that so many workers are on strike at the same time after years of austerity. It's time for a change and a reset.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
Public sector workers have taken real terms pay cuts for years. Now that inflation is above 10% most of them are asking for pay rises that don't shrink their real terms pay when inflation is taken into account. Most of the time what they are offered is well below the rate of inflation. Private sector companies are paying something closer to the rate of inflation. Interestingly, the government has raised pensions and benefits in line with inflation, seemingly rewarding those not in work more than those that run our services. This is despite their rhetoric (strivers vs skivers etc.) and amazingly it turns out that old aged pensioners are more likely to vote Conservative than those in work.

At the same time as making their employees poorer in real terms, rail companies are paying billions in dividends to shareholders who are often not even based in this country. The system is broken, there has been a free market free for all for too long. Most of our basic infrastructure is foreign owned, that's okay except when you have a crisis. Workforces have been squeezed and squeezed to create more profit (and dividends) for share holders. It is no surprise that so many workers are on strike at the same time after years of austerity. It's time for a change and a reset.
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70% of British railways are owned by foreign states. They don't give a toss about passengers, workers or Christmas piss-ups for that matter, only on making them and share holders money.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
Public sector workers have taken real terms pay cuts for years. Now that inflation is above 10% most of them are asking for pay rises that don't shrink their real terms pay when inflation is taken into account. Most of the time what they are offered is well below the rate of inflation. Private sector companies are paying something closer to the rate of inflation. Interestingly, the government has raised pensions and benefits in line with inflation, seemingly rewarding those not in work more than those that run our services. This is despite their rhetoric (strivers vs skivers etc.) and amazingly it turns out that old aged pensioners are more likely to vote Conservative than those in work.

At the same time as making their employees poorer in real terms, rail companies are paying billions in dividends to shareholders who are often not even based in this country. The system is broken, there has been a free market free for all for too long. Most of our basic infrastructure is foreign owned, that's okay except when you have a crisis. Workforces have been squeezed and squeezed to create more profit (and dividends) for share holders. It is no surprise that so many workers are on strike at the same time after years of austerity. It's time for a change and a reset.
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It's hilarious that shareholder dividends are apparently sacrosanct even when the world is fucked. Almost like it's a rigged game.
 
Junior_BentsPlatformShoes said:
File under 'Lazy nurses, lazy teachers etc'. Imagine if nobody ever complained about unfair pay or conditions, very important things like Christmas piss-ups etc would not have to be re-arranged.
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Yep, I would imagine those complaining about unions still enjoy paid annual leave, sick pay etc..all in existence thanks to unions.

All this 'suck it up and get on with it' bollocks is just indoctrination.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
Public sector workers have taken real terms pay cuts for years. Now that inflation is above 10% most of them are asking for pay rises that don't shrink their real terms pay when inflation is taken into account. Most of the time what they are offered is well below the rate of inflation. Private sector companies are paying something closer to the rate of inflation. Interestingly, the government has raised pensions and benefits in line with inflation, seemingly rewarding those not in work more than those that run our services. This is despite their rhetoric (strivers vs skivers etc.) and amazingly it turns out that old aged pensioners are more likely to vote Conservative than those in work.

At the same time as making their employees poorer in real terms, rail companies are paying billions in dividends to shareholders who are often not even based in this country. The system is broken, there has been a free market free for all for too long. Most of our basic infrastructure is foreign owned, that's okay except when you have a crisis. Workforces have been squeezed and squeezed to create more profit (and dividends) for share holders. It is no surprise that so many workers are on strike at the same time after years of austerity. It's time for a change and a reset.
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Don't expect any sensible counter argument from those on this thread complaining about strikes.

Mainly because there isn't one to be made.
 
This is the problem in our country now, nobody wants to be inconvenienced by anyone protesting about anything unfair or for anything that would benefit everyone. As long as they can get to work, go shopping, get pissed and play on their phones, they're happy for the powers that be to dictate to them. A race to the bottom.
 
Curryman said:
I have two grown children, one a single mother and civil servant, the other who works for a group of solicitors. Both have there own houses.

She works from home but is expected to travel to Leeds three times a fortnight to fulfill her contract. This is done by train. She also has two children at a grammar school some miles away, one who due to a serious skin complaint for which he has been receiving private specialist treatment in London, is now also having problems with his personality and therefore needs to slowly recover his daily routine of attending school and mixing with others. A mild case of social phobia. This results in him needing to be driven to school and then picked up at lunchtimes, which we assist in doing, but he takes a train home if it isn't too busy at Lunchtime and requires a pick up from the station. Obviously the train strikes cause problems for all of them.

My son works in Leeds and uses the train daily, he earns just above the minimum wage but manages, with some help from us, to survive in his own house he cannot claim any benefits as he is just above the threshold. he cannot work from home due to his job and during rail strikes has to rely on a bus, which is often late and takes over four times as long to reach Leeds, thus extending his work day both morning and night.

Each rail strike causes them both a great deal of stress and inconvenience, so for the Union to state that they don't want to inconvenience the general public yet call strikes at the most inconvenient time for those who rely on the trains is just a load of tosh.

Britain’s top-earning trade union bosses took home an average of almost £145,000 in the year ending 2019, the average remuneration was up by about 10 per cent on the previous year, almost double the rise in median gross earnings for full-time employees who did not move jobs.
In addition, union officials in the public sector were paid at least £85.9 million while carrying out union duties at work. (a report from the taxpayers alliance). So they will be earning well over that now and costing the public purse a lot more.

I'm aware that I will be cursed, called all sorts of names and no doubt be labelled a RWNJ, which I am not, and was at one time a Union Official myself, but I honestly feel that holding the general public to ransom is diabolical.

As for working practices on the railways, Beeching was confronted by such a problem in the early sixties with a lot of the practices he came across belonging to the Victorian era, some I understand, still remain and unfortunately railways will, like all other businesses, have to move with the times if they are not to be lost.

OK let the attack dogs out, I've stated my opinion and I stick by it.
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The union leaders and their members are well aware of the chaos and inconvenience their actions cause. Striking is a last resort. The RMT strike has only happened because the Government will not allow a funded settlement based on what the rail bosses are prepared to negotiate with the union. So really, it is the Government that is behind the chaos, misery and inconvenience. But they don't care. Public workers are their enemy. Also, a typical Tory Govt ploy is to operate at arms length and give the public the impression that it is the Union that is being intransigent.

Just as an aside, whilst I'm not accusing you of being a RWNJ, the Taxpayers Alliance members most certainly are.
 
Junior_BentsPlatformShoes said:
This is the problem in our country now, nobody wants to be inconvenienced by anyone protesting about anything unfair or for anything that would benefit everyone. As long as they can get to work, go shopping, get pissed and play on their phones, they're happy for the powers that be to dictate to them. A race to the bottom.
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But he had to rearrange his Christmas do!
 
Just stay at home, heating off, or on low, wear warm clothes, benefits: save on fares and petrol, no stress.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
Or the government are intent on having a war with the strikers.
This dispute could have been resolved months ago if the government allowed the rail companies to negotiate with the unions. Many private sector companies have avoided action by negotiating fair pay rises with their staff. I don't like the strike action but it is almost always a last resort for the workers, remember they lose pay as a result as well as causing disruption.
The failure to negotiate reach a mutual agreement is IMO a deliberate government policy - they are doing this in several industries. Then they will present a strikers vs. strivers argument to the public, workers vs shirkers and try to put Labour on the wrong side of the argument. It's very cynical and shows what regard they have for the general public. As an example take Zahawi's disgusting smear on nurses the other day, as if nurses are now enemies of the state because they are exercising their right to strike.
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Old age pensioners are more likely to vote Tory as in the past they have experienced several labour governments and know how awful that was.😜😂
 
Anyone lucky enough to have a pension linked to the CPI should perhaps think twice before criticising those having to cope with spiralling costs, along with the knackered infrastructure that ensures things don't function properly and getting to and from work is pure misery more often that not. Seriously, what's it coming to when a part of Sheffield is cut off from water, heat and power for five days and it only just makes the national headlines? When a nurse has to visit food banks to feed their family? It's only early December and already it's looking bleak for many. Maybe they should just go and get a better paid job? Or, maybe seeing as it's now the season of joy and goodwill, just do as Scrooge suggested and “If they would rather die, they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population.”
 
Curryman said:
I have two grown children, one a single mother and civil servant, the other who works for a group of solicitors. Both have there own houses.

She works from home but is expected to travel to Leeds three times a fortnight to fulfill her contract. This is done by train. She also has two children at a grammar school some miles away, one who due to a serious skin complaint for which he has been receiving private specialist treatment in London, is now also having problems with his personality and therefore needs to slowly recover his daily routine of attending school and mixing with others. A mild case of social phobia. This results in him needing to be driven to school and then picked up at lunchtimes, which we assist in doing, but he takes a train home if it isn't too busy at Lunchtime and requires a pick up from the station. Obviously the train strikes cause problems for all of them.

My son works in Leeds and uses the train daily, he earns just above the minimum wage but manages, with some help from us, to survive in his own house he cannot claim any benefits as he is just above the threshold. he cannot work from home due to his job and during rail strikes has to rely on a bus, which is often late and takes over four times as long to reach Leeds, thus extending his work day both morning and night.

Each rail strike causes them both a great deal of stress and inconvenience, so for the Union to state that they don't want to inconvenience the general public yet call strikes at the most inconvenient time for those who rely on the trains is just a load of tosh.

Britain’s top-earning trade union bosses took home an average of almost £145,000 in the year ending 2019, the average remuneration was up by about 10 per cent on the previous year, almost double the rise in median gross earnings for full-time employees who did not move jobs.
In addition, union officials in the public sector were paid at least £85.9 million while carrying out union duties at work. (a report from the taxpayers alliance). So they will be earning well over that now and costing the public purse a lot more.

I'm aware that I will be cursed, called all sorts of names and no doubt be labelled a RWNJ, which I am not, and was at one time a Union Official myself, but I honestly feel that holding the general public to ransom is diabolical.

As for working practices on the railways, Beeching was confronted by such a problem in the early sixties with a lot of the practices he came across belonging to the Victorian era, some I understand, still remain and unfortunately railways will, like all other businesses, have to move with the times if they are not to be lost.

OK let the attack dogs out, I've stated my opinion and I stick by it.
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Would love to know which practices are in place that belong in the Victorian era?? Obviously there are still semaphores and signal boxes but that is not the fault of workers, that is a chronic lack of investment.
I'm genuinely curious as to what you understand belong in the past though that is the fault of the workers?
 
This is what happens when the ERG and other right wing politicians get there hands on power. They destroy trading relationship with market of 500m people, wreck the economy in 40 days or so and seem to delight in industrial conflict.It seems they do want to return the country to the early 70's. Organisations such as trade unions, CBI, political parties need to stand up to them.
 
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Novelli86 said:
Would love to know which practices are in place that belong in the Victorian era?? Obviously there are still semaphores and signal boxes but that is not the fault of workers, that is a chronic lack of investment.
I'm genuinely curious as to what you understand belong in the past though that is the fault of the workers?
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Tumbleweed on that front
 
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