Training ground

WLDTangerine

WLDTangerine

Well-known member
If the club were to build a new training ground this season would the money spent go against our FFP?

I’m wondering if this could be a reason for our underwhelming transfer activity so far when everything else SS has done has been brilliant.
 
WLDTangerine said:
If the club were to build a new training ground this season would the money spent go against our FFP?

I’m wondering if this could be a reason for our underwhelming transfer activity so far when everything else SS has done has been brilliant.
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I don't think so no. Does FFP even apply outside of the top leagues?
 
WLDTangerine said:
If the club were to build a new training ground this season would the money spent go against our FFP?

I’m wondering if this could be a reason for our underwhelming transfer activity so far when everything else SS has done has been brilliant.
Click to expand...
I think we just have a finite budget. Which has been hindered by Covid and spending on other stuff. We made a loss of £2m in 2019/20 season, last season will have have been a bigger loss. Sadler's pockets are not like Russian or UAE pockets. Or American pockets. It's tough going from League One to Championship, you leave a land with no money and enter a land with a very uneven distribution of wealth. To survive you have to either get rich quick by attracting investment or box clever and out perform much richer opponents. We are in the box clever category. It doesn't bother me. I never even expected the Oystons to throw their own money at it, I just expected normal behaviour, do the best you can with the resources the club has, and for the club's money to stay in the club.
 
Earlier this year they were talking about scrapping the Uefa FFP, as it has been in existence for over 10 years and hasn't worked effectively. The EFL had a different set of spending restrictions, which are applicable to championship clubs and other EFL clubs. Both are applicable over a 3 year period of spend and do allow for some measured additional spend by tbe owners above budget. In any event, the training ground will take 2 or even 3 years to complete. We haven't even confirmed a site or applied for full planning permission yet (which can take a number of months in itself). Even if the planning process was started before Christmas, I think the earliest we would see a completed TG would be in 2023 or even 2024. And I would assume that the construction costs or value of the facility could be spread over the life of the asset, rather than in one transaction, so FFP shouldn't be a particular problem, unless you are spending £60 to £80m on it!
 
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bfcpete said:
Earlier this year they were talking about scrapping the Uefa FFP, as it has been in existence for over 10 years and hasn't worked effectively. The EFL had a different set of spending restrictions, which are applicable to championship clubs and other EFL clubs. Both are applicable over a 3 year period of spend and do allow for some measured additional spend by tbe owners above budget. In any event, the training ground will take 2 or even 3 years to complete. We haven't even confirmed a site or applied for full planning permission yet (which can take a number of months in itself). Even if the planning process was started before Christmas, I think the earliest we would see a completed TG would be in 2023 or even 2024. And I would assume that the construction costs or value of the facility could be spread over the life of the asset, rather than in one transaction, so FFP shouldn't be a particular problem, unless you are spending £60 to £80m on it!
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I thought the FFP for EFL teams was based on a teams individual turnover. Even at 10% of that 60/80 million you quoted (I know it’s hyperthetical) it would still be a huge investment from a club like us and it would surely have a big affect on our budgets.
 
voyeur said:
I think we just have a finite budget. Which has been hindered by Covid and spending on other stuff. We made a loss of £2m in 2019/20 season, last season will have have been a bigger loss. Sadler's pockets are not like Russian or UAE pockets. Or American pockets. It's tough going from League One to Championship, you leave a land with no money and enter a land with a very uneven distribution of wealth. To survive you have to either get rich quick by attracting investment or box clever and out perform much richer opponents. We are in the box clever category. It doesn't bother me. I never even expected the Oystons to throw their own money at it, I just expected normal behaviour, do the best you can with the resources the club has, and for the club's money to stay in the club.
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A good, and bad way to look at it is to look at Brentford. Arguably around the same size as us. The owner is owed £64m, albeit interest free. That was before promotion, but it shows what we are up against.
 
fcblackpool said:
A good, and bad way to look at it is to look at Brentford. Arguably around the same size as us. The owner is owed £64m, albeit interest free. That was before promotion, but it shows what we are up against.
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Sadler won't be going that far down that road, I think. The club needs to largely support itself I think, which means player sales. Buy potential and develop. Not a short term project. Patience required.
 
I disagree with this ^^

I do think that SS has money to invest in the Club and BM has hinted at as much. I suspect the plan is to maximise the potential impact of any investment and rightly so (and that may mean waiting to see how things settle post Covid / Brexit / Governance Legislation). So we may need to be patient, but he hasn’t (IMO at least) bought the Club with the intention of running it on a shoestring.
 
fcblackpool said:
A good, and bad way to look at it is to look at Brentford. Arguably around the same size as us. The owner is owed £64m, albeit interest free. That was before promotion, but it shows what we are up against.
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Another good example is Huddersfield who are now knackered after the former owner who was a local lad made good called in the loans much faster than anyone expected after selling. There’s an interesting thread Here
 
The plans for the training ground and East stand will be above and beyond our expectations. It will be pretty clear where the money is going to be invested and that SS is in this for the long run.
 
tangerine_neil said:
The plans for the training ground and East stand will be above and beyond our expectations. It will be pretty clear where the money is going to be invested and that SS is in this for the long run.
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Nobody is doubting his intention, but with the best will in the world unforeseen circumstances can happen.
 
WLDTangerine said:
If the club were to build a new training ground this season would the money spent go against our FFP?

I’m wondering if this could be a reason for our underwhelming transfer activity so far when everything else SS has done has been brilliant.
Click to expand...
The team are playing well and have not been hammered. Yesterday we were the best footballing team albeit with 10 men. Very early days yet.
 
Derby said:
I think clubs are permitted to lose 40m over three years so to stay within the finanical
Regulations so plenty of scope
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Although he’s a fan, I can’t see him thinking of losses. Yes Covid came along and upset his and every clubs plans, but medium and long term he will be looking to make profits. The model seems to be to get young promising players in, develop them and at some point sell them on for profit. There’s no doubt in my mind that we have several players in that category, Marv, Jerry, Lavery and Bowler are clear examples.
 
WLDTangerine said:
I thought the FFP for EFL teams was based on a teams individual turnover. Even at 10% of that 60/80 million you quoted (I know it’s hyperthetical) it would still be a huge investment from a club like us and it would surely have a big affect on our budgets.
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We won't be spending anything like 60/80m.I was quoting that for a large PL club, not BFC. I would be surprised if we spent more than a quarter of that, £15m to £20m, at most. The life of the property asset should be be at least 25 years (and could be longer) so depreciating over such a period it should be manageable
 
tangerine_neil said:
True. Like Covid, for example. He’s into hedge funds as well, so that would be a concern.
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Sadler’s company deals in Asset Management, a totally different animal to a hedge fund. A good asset manager makes money for his clients whether the financial movement in the rest of the world is up or down. So Covid shouldn’t have impacted his business, that’s not to say he should just pump money into the club. With his financial background trying to make everything pay it’s own way comes naturally.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I disagree with this ^^

I do think that SS has money to invest in the Club and BM has hinted at as much. I suspect the plan is to maximise the potential impact of any investment and rightly so (and that may mean waiting to see how things settle post Covid / Brexit / Governance Legislation). So we may need to be patient, but he hasn’t (IMO at least) bought the Club with the intention of running it on a shoestring.
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I think that depends on what we mean by 'a shoestring'

I also agree that he seems like someone who is going to do something properly if he does it at all, but lay all the eventual costs out (East Stand, training ground, probably refit of concourses and development of footprint of ground) even before you get to 'championship players' (or, dare we say it, 'Premier League players' and it's huge.

There's no evidence we've yet come even close to break even yet and even this year where we've not spent the money some had hoped, we've likely seen a big increase in wages in order to tie down certain players alone.

I don't think we're in for a 'terrible shock' with Sadler, but I think we are in for incremental growth, with player development at its heart and that will take patience and may try the patience of some of us at times.

I think a different point is, when an owner runs a club as their favourite waste of money, however benevolent they may be, there is often a horrendous shock when they finally leave. What I'd hope is that Sadler builds something more sustainable than that whereby our success is down to his work and the structures in place as much as it is down to the brute force of his cash.
 
td53 said:
I think that depends on what we mean by 'a shoestring'

I also agree that he seems like someone who is going to do something properly if he does it at all, but lay all the eventual costs out (East Stand, training ground, probably refit of concourses and development of footprint of ground) even before you get to 'championship players' (or, dare we say it, 'Premier League players' and it's huge.

There's no evidence we've yet come even close to break even yet and even this year where we've not spent the money some had hoped, we've likely seen a big increase in wages in order to tie down certain players alone.

I don't think we're in for a 'terrible shock' with Sadler, but I think we are in for incremental growth, with player development at its heart and that will take patience and may try the patience of some of us at times.

I think a different point is, when an owner runs a club as their favourite waste of money, however benevolent they may be, there is often a horrendous shock when they finally leave. What I'd hope is that Sadler builds something more sustainable than that whereby our success is down to his work and the structures in place as much as it is down to the brute force of his cash.
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Eg. Bolton, Blackburn, Huddersfield toname but 3 there are many more. I have complained lately about the quality of signings, but in my case it’s not financial outlay ie. transfer fees, but Championship experience type quality. Sadler said in his first statement on purchasing the club about it becoming self financing, so let us be under no illusions money will be spent on infrastructure but will need to be recouped. When I complain about lack of quality, I truly have the interests of the club at heart. If we finish this season 4 or more from bottom or higher I will be a happy man , I just don’t want us back in league one with al it’s connotations.
 
Goforgoal said:
Eg. Bolton, Blackburn, Huddersfield toname but 3 there are many more. I have complained lately about the quality of signings, but in my case it’s not financial outlay ie. transfer fees, but Championship experience type quality. Sadler said in his first statement on purchasing the club about it becoming self financing, so let us be under no illusions money will be spent on infrastructure but will need to be recouped. When I complain about lack of quality, I truly have the interests of the club at heart. If we finish this season 4 or more from bottom or higher I will be a happy man , I just don’t want us back in league one with al it’s connotations.
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Aye, agree - it doesn't come cheap though. That's the problem. The gulf is really wide in finance between teams in the same division and their ability to pay wages. Wages have gone so insane in football that transfer fees are only the start of it. I did some research on the average wage in the championship and whilst I couldn't find a definitive answer, some of the sums being quoted defy belief. I think/hope we have enough quality if we can get the loans right and *maybe* pick up the odd player that no one expected us to completely off the radar like we did with Dougall, Garbutt and Stewart last year who all came out of the blue and after this point. (Certainly Dougall and Stewart did and Garbutt wasn't about at the start)

It would, I agree, be very tragic to see all the work that's gone in and us end up back where we were.
 
Derby said:
I think clubs are permitted to lose 40m over three years so to stay within the finanical
Regulations so plenty of scope
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Does 'lose' include investment in fixed assets? (Is that the right phrase? - I mean stuff like buildings and that) It surely must, otherwise no one would ever build a new ground and escape censure. Who knows i guess, as the financial rules are a mess of loopholes and grey areas.
 
WLDTangerine said:
If the club were to build a new training ground this season would the money spent go against our FFP?

I’m wondering if this could be a reason for our underwhelming transfer activity so far when everything else SS has done has been brilliant.
Click to expand...
Lavery and Bowler are hardly underwhelming transfers tbf
 
If you look at the pattern of our recruitment it seems clear that SS wants the club to be self-sustaining (or close to it) over the long term. Invest in young talent, turn a profit, re-invest, and repeat.

People moaning and obsessing about the lack of a right back (or whatever it is currently) are focusing on a point of detail and completely missing the overall strategy.
 
There was words from Gerrity at the open training session to expect some news i think autumn was said but hard to hear at the time for me.
 
BWseasider said:
Hedgefunds are making a killing right now, the financial markets are very volatile and that’s where most hedgefunds tend to make their money.
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It was a dreadful pun. I'm not actually trying to advise Sadler. My idea of financial success is when I get a good yellow sticker haul at the supermarket 🤣

Sorry!
 
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