USA

Chunkylad said:
It won’t change and it can’t change. It’s fundamental to their lives. The vast majority are in favour of it and I’ve given up arguing with Yanks on this subject.

It’s now just a regular thing that they’ll have to accept as the norm
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Like going out hunting with their parents from a young age.

We are like: “Oh, look. There’s Bambi.”
They are like: “Between the eyes. It won’t feel a thing.”
 
tangerine_neil said:
It’s just the mindset that they are brought up with guns.

Not really a surprise when it spills over into the shooting of human‘s
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To be fair to them, quite a few live in areas where they really do need guns for pest control and protection against wild animals, and for others there might be legitimate self-defence needs.

Quite why they feel the need for AR-15 style platforms is another question.
 
Chunkylad said:
It won’t change and it can’t change. It’s fundamental to their lives. The vast majority are in favour of it and I’ve given up arguing with Yanks on this subject.

It’s now just a regular thing that they’ll have to accept as the norm
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I know what you mean. But we don't live in the time of the founding fathers and the Frontiersmen are long gone. If the faithful really do believe in the Christian doctrine then there is no place for the private ownership of the weapons of war.
 
I'm going to have to explain my point I suppose.

The gun culture in the US is so ingrained that people will defend it from those who don't have the same experience despite the harm it causes, much like the drinking culture here.

Try explaining alcohol to someone who grew up in a teetotal culture.
 
foggy said:
Sure, I don't think that has any effect on the objective fact that you can't commit mass murder with alcohol though. There's no school mass forced vodka poisoning events in England
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Correct. I think it’s what’s known as a false equivalence.

Alcohol certainly causes problems and even deaths. It doesn’t however cause as many homicides as assault rifles do in the US.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Correct. I think it’s what’s known as a false equivalence.

Alcohol certainly causes problems and even deaths. It doesn’t however cause as many homicides as assault rifles do in the US.
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It's not a false equivalence at all, it's an example of how something potentially harmful yet ingrained in the cultural physche will always be difficult to understand for those outside of that culture, it's not a comparison of equality.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
It's not a false equivalence at all, it's an example of how something potentially harmful yet ingrained in the cultural physche will always be difficult to understand for those outside of that culture, it's not a comparison of equality.
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This makes sense if taking about a ban on all guns. Every single one. But most people just want to tackle these high powered modern assault rifles that are used in mass shootings. These exist only to kill indiscriminately, in vast numbers. I really don't see how that in any way compares to alcohol in culture and society. What is alcohol's AR-15 equivalent?
 
foggy said:
This makes sense if taking about a ban on all guns. Every single one. But most people just want to tackle these high powered modern assault rifles that are used in mass shootings. These exist only to kill indiscriminately, in vast numbers. I really don't see how that in any way compares to alcohol in culture and society. What is alcohol's AR-15 equivalent?
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Cheap 20/20 cider? Stella?

Anyway, it absolutely does work as a comparison.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
It's not a false equivalence at all, it's an example of how something potentially harmful yet ingrained in the cultural physche will always be difficult to understand for those outside of that culture, it's not a comparison of equality.
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I get that but you actually claimed drink kills more people than guns. That certainly isn’t true in terms of homicides. If every homicide in England and Wales could be attributed in some way to alcohol (and it can’t) the figure would only be in the region of 600. That’s way below the number of homicides in the US where a firearm is involved.

If by “kill” you mean contributed to someone’s death then the figures would be closer but obviously a lot of those deaths would be because of voluntary drinking (freedom of choice and all that). You can’t compare that a mass shooting of the type we see in the US which no one but the killer signs up to.

But I agree your general point about ingrained cultures.
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
There doesn't need to be, it's irrelevant to the comparison.
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I think there does, because I can see the point you are making. Guns are a part of American culture, perhaps that is something we cannot understand, yeah.They are used socially and have a tradition. Much of America is also rural and so clearly hunting is a popular practice. This can be equated, loosely, to alcohol and it's place in our society, although I think it's a bit of a stretch.

What I don't think is equivalent, are modern high powered assault rifles. These are weapons of mass destruction. They are used to kill dozens of people in one go. One was used in the mass shooting that provoked this thread. I think they should be banned, as do a lot of Americans, about 50%. These are not sacred parts of their lives. I do not see them as an important part of the US society. And I don't see cheap cider as any kind of equivalent. Killing yourself with alcohol is a choice. Just like killing yourself with a gun. That's an individual's decision impacting only themselves. Killing 40 or 50 other people with an AR-15 is not, and that is something US lawmakers can stop.

Anyway, that's enough from me. Guns are stupid, basically.
 
I did notice on the news that the American broadcaster said 'The latest mass shooting',
It happens on a regular basis.
 
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