We are being invaded

We aren't, but we are, for lots of very positive reasons, we are the premier destination of choice for tens of thousands of people per year who would rather live here than rest of Europe they crossed to get here.
 
TSSeasider said:
We aren't, but we are, for lots of very positive reasons, we are the premier destination of choice for tens of thousands of people per year who would rather live here than rest of Europe they crossed to get here.
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Other than all those who go to Italy, Spain and Germany in far greater numbers of course.
 
Wizaard said:
Other than all those who go to Italy, Spain and Germany in far greater numbers of course.
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Are they - I've not looked at the comparative figures for ages; our issues are a bit different in that England is one of the more densely populated parts of Europe and our infrastructure is woefully inadequate for the the current population. The infrastructure issues aren't insurmountable, but population density is more intransigent especially as new arrivals tend to congregate in London/SE and not want to move so far away as opportunities are more limited due to the regional inequalities - at one point in about 2005, the NE was the economic equivalent of Bulgaria - I'm not convinced things have improved that much since.
 
BBC says today that Albanian drug gangs are recruiting from the migrant camps in Northern France, offering to pay the passage to the UK of those prepared to work in the UK drugs cartel. The BBC says towns near the Albanian capital of Tirana are almost empty as young Albanians are lured to the French coast. There are no restrictions on their movement to France as tourists without visas for up to three months. Investigative journalists from Albania working undercover say that the Albanians did not have any real power. Everything is run by Kurds including the camps and the cross-Channel transport. French officials confirmed that Albanian migrants are working with Iraqi-Kurdish smuggling gangs which run 80% of small boat operations. IMO whatever action is taken by the UK to stop this escalation is legitimate.
 
TSSeasider said:
Are they - I've not looked at the comparative figures for ages; our issues are a bit different in that England is one of the more densely populated parts of Europe and our infrastructure is woefully inadequate for the the current population. The infrastructure issues aren't insurmountable, but population density is more intransigent especially as new arrivals tend to congregate in London/SE and not want to move so far away as opportunities are more limited due to the regional inequalities - at one point in about 2005, the NE was the economic equivalent of Bulgaria - I'm not convinced things have improved that much since.
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EU had 630,000 applications for asylum in 2021.

Germany had over 30%, ie around 190,000 Puts our 'invasion' into perspective.

Number of applications per EU country (2021)​

In 2021, Germany received over a quarter (30%) of asylum applications in the EU, followed by:

  • France (19.1%)
  • Spain (10.4%)
  • Italy (8.4%)
  • Austria (6.1%)
All with more than us, for what it's worth.
 
TSSeasider said:
Are they - I've not looked at the comparative figures for ages; our issues are a bit different in that England is one of the more densely populated parts of Europe and our infrastructure is woefully inadequate for the the current population. The infrastructure issues aren't insurmountable, but population density is more intransigent especially as new arrivals tend to congregate in London/SE and not want to move so far away as opportunities are more limited due to the regional inequalities - at one point in about 2005, the NE was the economic equivalent of Bulgaria - I'm not convinced things have improved that much since.
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at one point in about 2005, the NE was the economic equivalent of Bulgaria - I'm not convinced things have improved that much since.

It's what George Osborne used to refer to as 'not wasting money on areas that vote Labour'. It's now called the non-levelling up agenda.
 
We most definitely are being invaded.

Just been on the 1pm BBC news about Albanians and trafficking.

12k Albanians of which 10k are young men have already crossed this year alone on rubber dinghy’s the figure was just 50 2 years ago. 😮

Some towns in Albania have had a 70% exodus of young men en-route to the U.K. and most of those left are all planning the same journey.

Some towns in Albania are expected to end up ghost towns.

It’s just crazy that their passing though 5/6 safe haven countries to get here.

It’s even made worse by many young Albanians joining trafficking groups in France and making thousands out of other peoples misfortunes.

And as for war torn refugees needing our help don’t get me going. 🤬
 
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TSSeasider said:
Are they - I've not looked at the comparative figures for ages; our issues are a bit different in that England is one of the more densely populated parts of Europe and our infrastructure is woefully inadequate for the the current population. The infrastructure issues aren't insurmountable, but population density is more intransigent especially as new arrivals tend to congregate in London/SE and not want to move so far away as opportunities are more limited due to the regional inequalities - at one point in about 2005, the NE was the economic equivalent of Bulgaria - I'm not convinced things have improved that much since.
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Why is the UK's infrastructure woefully inadequate?

Is it because there has been very little investment in infrastructure unless it has the ability to turn a QUICK profit.

The world's 4th or 5th biggest economy prior to Brexit / COVID / Putin had over the previous fifty years, not trained people, ignored energy insecurity, ignored infrastructure collapse. And rather than address those problems or even admit they exist, the bogeyman of illegal immigration gets thrown up as the reason the UK is f***ed up.

However as much as Thatcher, Blair, Brown, Cameron et al stated that the UK was a dynamic wealthy country, significant parts of it as you say are way down the league tables, with genuine poverty being prevalent for UK citizens. The anger that is directed at illegal immigrants is understandable when (possibly) 80% of all British workers live month to month (2020 stat) and a similar number unable to meet an emergency 400 UKP payment.

With the likes of Braverman, Farage and others with the help of the Telegraph and the Mail focused on immigrants the actual problems don't get fixed. Rounding up a bunch of desperate Albanians, Iraquis, Kurds, Africans etc seems counter productive if they want to stop it, as very little is done, or seems to be done to capture the organisers and ring leaders. At some level that is being organised in the UK, probably by people at least marginally connected to political movers and shakers or law enforcement. That however is firstly hard work and secondly somewhat embarrassing for those making a big issue of immigration, a bunch of high vis vest clad stormtroopers rounding up illegals is a much better photo op.

If journalists can get to see inside these organisations and how they operate you would think law enforcement / border agents would be able to as well. Maybe they don't want to.

Supposedly the UK is short 2 million workers, why not recruit in those countries so that they don't have to come in illegally. As we know there isn't 2 million available jobs - like everything else its a mis-direction
 
It's just Natural Equilibrium in action. Given a wealthy country and a poor country, poor people will migrate towards the wealthy and force the selfish to share their wealth. Natural Equilibrium will always counteract unnatural man-made concepts like borders and countries.
 
20togo said:
seems none of the lefties on here have anything to say about your post. Perhaps they think all these migrants should be welcomed, no questions asked.
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No. Just send them straight back to Albania. Their government has said they want them back, and I can’t see many having a second go at getting back in.
Our government needs to get things sorted, but as I posted before they seem more interested in keeping the problem going and making a bigger issue of it than it needs to be. Either that or they are just incompetent, or both!
 
Wizaard said:
EU had 630,000 applications for asylum in 2021.

Germany had over 30%, ie around 190,000 Puts our 'invasion' into perspective.

Number of applications per EU country (2021)​

In 2021, Germany received over a quarter (30%) of asylum applications in the EU, followed by:

  • France (19.1%)
  • Spain (10.4%)
  • Italy (8.4%)
  • Austria (6.1%)
All with more than us, for what it's worth.
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Good stats them 👍
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
It's just Natural Equilibrium in action. Given a wealthy country and a poor country, poor people will migrate towards the wealthy and force the selfish to share their wealth. Natural Equilibrium will always counteract unnatural man-made concepts like borders and countries.
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Why are wealthy people selfish !
 
Fatboy said:
Why are wealthy people selfish !
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That's how they get to be wealthy.

The best way to get the economy moving is to give money to the poorest as they will spend it in the local economy.

Giving it to the wealthiest, as proposed by Liz Truss, will see the money saved, or spent on luxuries like foreign holidays, where the money is spent outwith our economy.

I really don't see why that isn't obvious to these economic experts.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
We most definitely are being invaded.

Just been on the 1pm BBC news BBC about Albanians and trafficking.

12k Albanians of which 10k are young men have already crossed this year alone on rubber dinghy’s the figure was just 50 2 years ago. 😮

Some towns in Albania have had a 70% exodus of young men en-route to the U.K. and most of those left are all planning the same journey.

Some towns in Albania are expected to end up ghost towns.

It’s just crazy that their passing though 5/6 safe haven countries to get here.

It’s even made worse by many young Albanians joining trafficking groups in France and making thousands out of other peoples misfortunes.

And as for war torn refugees needing our help don’t get me going. 🤬
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You are flogging a dead horse on here , they will never admit it 🙁
 
Wiz and Lytham are smuggling in midget Commies from North Korea in their rucksacks. Wiz then gets them jobs in the Civil Service where they pass sensitive info to Kim Wrong Un’s secret service about how many Wagon Wheels are on the tea trolley .It’s treason.😮🇬🇧
 
tommytwojags said:
BBC says today that Albanian drug gangs are recruiting from the migrant camps in Northern France, offering to pay the passage to the UK of those prepared to work in the UK drugs cartel. The BBC says towns near the Albanian capital of Tirana are almost empty as young Albanians are lured to the French coast. There are no restrictions on their movement to France as tourists without visas for up to three months. Investigative journalists from Albania working undercover say that the Albanians did not have any real power. Everything is run by Kurds including the camps and the cross-Channel transport. French officials confirmed that Albanian migrants are working with Iraqi-Kurdish smuggling gangs which run 80% of small boat operations. IMO whatever action is taken by the UK to stop this escalation is legitimate.
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Of course, if we were to work in a grown up manner with our European neighbours, allies and friends and address the problem collegiately, we would have a greater chance of success that we will with Braverman's UKIP megaphone diplomacy.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
Of course, if we were to work in a grown up manner with our European neighbours, allies and friends and address the problem collegiately, we would have a greater chance of success that we will with Braverman's UKIP megaphone diplomacy.
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Good idea. If we reached an agreement with France whereby we pay it loads of money and it rounds up the people smugglers and stops the boats entering La Manche, that would be good. But what if the French authorities didn't act in a grown up manner and just waved the boats through on the ground that it's not safe to intervene because they could be outnumbered?
 
tommytwojags said:
Good idea. If we reached an agreement with France whereby we pay it loads of money and it rounds up the people smugglers and stops the boats entering La Manche, that would be good. But what if the French authorities didn't act in a grown up manner and just waved the boats through on the ground that it's not safe to intervene because they could be outnumbered?
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Diplomacy is the art of doing very difficult things politely.
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
Far more stay in Europe though than come here but that would squash your argument so I won't mention it.
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And far more asylum seekers are housed for free in the UK than war veterans.

Asylum seekers can be good for the population and growth of a country. However, my issue is the fact we house them while people who have fought for our country sleep on the streets. Look after our own first.
 
ItsGrimUpNorth said:
And far more asylum seekers are housed for free in the UK than war veterans.

Asylum seekers can be good for the population and growth of a country. However, my issue is the fact we house them while people who have fought for our country sleep on the streets. Look after our own first.
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Sadly that’s been the case for years.
With 3 square meals a day TV/mobiles/internet your better looked after in HM prisons these days than are own people are on the streets.
 
Wizaard said:
That's how they get to be wealthy.

The best way to get the economy moving is to give money to the poorest as they will spend it in the local economy.

Giving it to the wealthiest, as proposed by Liz Truss, will see the money saved, or spent on luxuries like foreign holidays, where the money is spent outwith our economy.

I really don't see why that isn't obvious to these economic experts.
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It is obvious, but by accepting it you also have to accept that wealth is not finite, so wealth has to be distributed differently. If you are in the pay of very large corps and the very wealthy or in the pay of wall st / the city, anything that distributes wealth downwards is a problem.

The other thing that established economists (expert in my opinion is the wrong word) don't see as obvious is how the system based on consumption can actually survive if wealth and earnings are consistently moved to the top of the economic tree, if money isn't available to spend then the companies and the wealthy that own them have no one to sell to.
 
BigHandsOliverKahn said:
It's just Natural Equilibrium in action. Given a wealthy country and a poor country, poor people will migrate towards the wealthy and force the selfish to share their wealth. Natural Equilibrium will always counteract unnatural man-made concepts like borders and countries.
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We see it in the UK and every other developed nation, where people migrate to the main city from other cities and people migrate from rural to urban areas where there are working populations (and hence money) have facilities, or better facilities and opportunities which attracts even more people.

I don't think its a natural equilibrium, at best its a natural imbalance, but the imbalance is artificial, and could easily be broken. One of my predictions is that UK energy insecurity and collapsing energy infrastructure will eventually turn people to less urban existences for the simple reason big cities may not have the capability to provide continuous energy for the population. In less urban areas there may be more capability to transfer to alternative forms of energy and self generation.
 
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Hertsseasider said:
Call me a cynic but I can't help but think that all this attention to asylum seekers is to divert attention from the clusterfuck our economy is in/heading into.
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Not cynical just realistic I would say. I don’t think Braverman is where she is to try and sort any of it out to be honest.
I think she is there to try and weaponise it. “Never waste a good crisis” as they say (or something like that anyway!).
I hope I am wrong though.
 
Surely the best thing that can happen regardless, is that applications are processed very quickly?

If yes - Great get an NI number and enjoy being one of the tribe.
If no - go through whatever review and asses process is required quickly as possible as long as a fair system.

The cost of procrastination is both financial and human - invest in the process Home office, and create opportunities for all of those who join our tribe
 
Can't be that bad. I've lived here for 53 years and never met an Albanian, although I have no reason to think that meeting Albanians is a particularly bad thing!
 
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gjr69 said:
Can't be that bad. I've lived here for 53 years and never met an Albanian, although I have no reason to think that meeting Albanians is a particularly bad thing!
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[
The Albanian influx is a recent one.
There were only 40 Albanian immigrants two years ago. Now the numbers are off the charts by comparison.
Given the time it takes to process Asylum applications it’s no wonder you’ve never met one.
And yeah, more so than any other immigrants, Albanians are connected with criminal gang networks in the UK.
So I wouldn’t personally be so nonchalant about the issue. It might not be something that’s impacting your life, but it will be adversely impacting the lives of many victims.
Not all are going to be engaged in criminal activity of course, but they’re still illegally entering our country, costing the taxpayer huge amounts, and they’re clogging up the asylum system and doing a disservice to genuine asylum seekers. At best they’re economic chancers, and at worst they’re criminal gang recruits. But hey you’ve never met one so all is well.
 
Seems like there is always a new bogeyman from overseas to be scared of. I'll just go off the evidence of my own eyes and experiences for now and not react negatively because the right wing of the Tory party and the Daily Mail are wanting me to.
I remember Farage and his thing about Romanians, that was a few years ago and I've yet to meet one of them over here good or bad.
I also remember even further back that Polish people were going to be a problem, I've met loads of them and they've always been perfectly normal.
 
tommytwojags said:
Arriving at a rate of 1200 per month, I'm sure we will be coming accross them soon enough. The problem is not that they are arriving here but that many are arriving here for criminal purposes. The going rate for their transport seems to be drug dealing, prostitution and slavery. Bizarrely, many Albanian migrants are said to be making asylum claims on the ground they have been trafficked to the UK.
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That’s a lot of Albanians, but not necessarily a lot of asylum seekers. Their government wants them back, so we could just send them back. It’s a ‘safeish’ country after all?
I suspect they have now become hostages in a culture war to be detained at the Home Secretary’s leisure?
 
tommytwojags said:
Arriving at a rate of 1200 per month, I'm sure we will be coming accross them soon enough. The problem is not that they are arriving here but that many are arriving here for criminal purposes. The going rate for their transport seems to be drug dealing, prostitution and slavery. Bizarrely, many Albanian migrants are said to be making asylum claims on the ground they have been trafficked to the UK.
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How do you know that huge numbers are arriving here for criminal purposes? The processing of applications has fallen from 90% to just 4% of arrivals so the statistics about the intent of arrivals won't exist. If an application is rejected on the grounds that asylum from their home country has no justification, then that individual can be returned to their country of origin. If it is an application for economic migration then the individual can be sent home and told to apply through the proper channels.

The fact that there are crowded holding centres is because the resources to process applicants have been withdrawn. It seems to me that the Tories need these small boats in order to support their contrived narrative that they and only they can stem the tide of illegal immigration. Hard facts do not support their xenophobic myth. It's a myth that ignores the fact that asylum applications are half of what they were 20 years ago. It is a myth that ignores the fact that asylum seekers made up around 6% of immigrants to the UK in 2019 and around 12% in 2020, when overall immigration was lower than usual due to the pandemic. It is a myth that ignores the fact that in 2020, there were around 6 asylum applications for every 10,000 people living in the UK. Across the EU there were 11 asylum applications for every 10,000 people. When compared with EU countries, the UK ranked 14th out of the individual countries in terms of the number of asylum applications per capita.

However, it is a myth that happily sows mistrust among the population. Its narrative suggests that the Government's valiant efforts to deter criminals, rapists and benefit cheats from gaining illegal entry to our shores is being frustrated by by a string of culprits – "activist" lawyers, human rights law, tofu eaters, the Labour opposition and any other make-believe 5th columnist that it can corall into its Venn diagram of "the enemy within."
 
tommytwojags said:
Because they told the BBC that they were offered free passage in return for their agreement to drug dealing.
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If they said they were desperate asylum seekers would you take them at their word? I doubt it. So why are you so ready to do so when the spout drug dealing stories? Then again, they could be decent men who have been made this offer but they have no intention of taking it up. It's easy to build a convenient narrative isn't it?
 
1966_and_all_that said:
If they said they were desperate asylum seekers would you take them at their word? I doubt it. So why are you so ready to do so when the spout drug dealing stories? Then again, they could be decent men who have been made this offer but they have no intention of taking it up. It's easy to build a convenient narrative isn't it?
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They could indeed be decent men, but they're not refugees and are coming from a peaceful country. They earn £1.70 an hour in Albania and want to earn more. Does that mean we should take them in?
 
tommytwojags said:
They could indeed be decent men, but they're not refugees and are coming from a peaceful country. They earn £1.70 an hour in Albania and want to earn more. Does that mean we should take them in?
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It means that our Government should get its finger out, provide the necessary resources and process these people properly. That way they are approved for asylum, rejected for asylum and told to apply for immigration through the proper channels or returned home.
 
This is a political stunt, funny how this has become a story exactly when the government wouldn't want us to talk about the economy.

It's exactly the same tactic Trump used, everytime there was an election there was a convoy of refugees descending on their southern border
 
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