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tommytwojags

tommytwojags

Well-known member
According to the Treasury, Labour's flagship green investment plan could end up costing at least £35billion, so it looks like yet another Keir Starmer U-turn is called for.

Governing a country isn't so easy when you have to fund it instead of just talking about it.


www.bbc.co.uk

Keir Starmer: Labour ditches £28bn green investment pledge

A U-turn on the policy is set to be announced on Thursday, following confusion over the party's position.
www.bbc.co.uk
 
tommytwojags said:
According to the Treasury, Labour's flagship green investment plan could end up costing at least £35billion, so it looks like yet another Keir Starmer U-turn is called for.

Governing a country isn't so easy when you have to fund it instead of just talking about it.


www.bbc.co.uk

Keir Starmer: Labour ditches £28bn green investment pledge

A U-turn on the policy is set to be announced on Thursday, following confusion over the party's position.
www.bbc.co.uk
Click to expand...
43tmt3.jpg
 
I thought history has shown that big infrastructure projects can boost the wider economy and have long term benefits. *







* Excludes HS2 😁
 
tommytwojags said:
According to the Treasury, Labour's flagship green investment plan could end up costing at least £35billion, so it looks like yet another Keir Starmer U-turn is called for.

Governing a country isn't so easy when you have to fund it instead of just talking about it.


www.bbc.co.uk

Keir Starmer: Labour ditches £28bn green investment pledge

A U-turn on the policy is set to be announced on Thursday, following confusion over the party's position.
www.bbc.co.uk
Click to expand...
Have you made sure this sage advice has reached him as it's unlikely he browses this site?
 
tommytwojags said:
According to the Treasury, Labour's flagship green investment plan could end up costing at least £35billion, so it looks like yet another Keir Starmer U-turn is called for.

Governing a country isn't so easy when you have to fund it instead of just talking about it.


www.bbc.co.uk

Keir Starmer: Labour ditches £28bn green investment pledge

A U-turn on the policy is set to be announced on Thursday, following confusion over the party's position.
www.bbc.co.uk
Click to expand...
When Truss was campaigning to become PM I do seem to remember that you were keen on her policies which involved borrowing to fund tax cuts. That went well!

Of course there are limits on borrowing and it needs to be done responsibly. However the green plan is a good idea and could actually boost the economy. Biden has done something similar in the US with great success.

The fact that raising the money will be more difficult now is a testimony to the failure of successive Conservative governments.
 
TangoDave said:
Is it wrong to borrow money for major infrastructure projects? Did you buy your house for cash or did you take out a mortgage?
Click to expand...
I purchased my first house with a loan, worked on it, sold it and bought a better one for cash and gradually moved up the ladder with the same ethic. Didn't go on fancy holidays, buy over the top phones, TV's, things such as SKY TV etc or be over extravagant on buying flash cars, but set myself a budget and stuck to it. Result, I retired with a reasonable pension, no outstanding debts an old but adequate car and not having to worry about where my pennies are coming from. perhaps I should be a Politician.

There is an old saying 'cut your coat according to your cloth' which a lot of people would be better doing, instead of racking up unpayable debts.
 
When did any govt ever manage to work out the true cost of anything before announcing anything they are all crap at it
 
There is plenty more of this to come.

The closer we get to an election, the more scrutiny will be put on the opposition to be credible and 'for' something; rather than anti-everything.

It's impossible for Labour to be any worse than the Conservatives, but that's not an achievement nor is it a reason to vote.

It's going to be interesting to see how they create a compelling reason to vote for them which is more than "we ain't Tories" especially when a fair chunk of their own side think they are at best Blue Labour, at worst a Tory in a red tie.

I can see a record low turnout which might make the results nearer than they ought to be given the absolute calamity of governance since 2022.
 
TSSeasider said:
There is plenty more of this to come.

The closer we get to an election, the more scrutiny will be put on the opposition to be credible and 'for' something; rather than anti-everything.

It's impossible for Labour to be any worse than the Conservatives, but that's not an achievement nor is it a reason to vote.

It's going to be interesting to see how they create a compelling reason to vote for them which is more than "we ain't Tories" especially when a fair chunk of their own side think they are at best Blue Labour, at worst a Tory in a red tie.

I can see a record low turnout which might make the results nearer than they ought to be given the absolute calamity of governance since 2022.
Click to expand...
Labour are rowing back on spending pledges now they have had a chance to look at the books.
This is bad news for everybody, it means that the countries finances are in a worse state than they thought. Hunt has also hinted at cancelling planned tax cuts recently.
What a shitshow - record levels of taxation and yet no money to spend
 
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TSSeasider said:
There is plenty more of this to come.

The closer we get to an election, the more scrutiny will be put on the opposition to be credible and 'for' something; rather than anti-everything.

It's impossible for Labour to be any worse than the Conservatives, but that's not an achievement nor is it a reason to vote.

It's going to be interesting to see how they create a compelling reason to vote for them which is more than "we ain't Tories" especially when a fair chunk of their own side think they are at best Blue Labour, at worst a Tory in a red tie.

I can see a record low turnout which might make the results nearer than they ought to be given the absolute calamity of governance since 2022.
Click to expand...
Voters have lost faith in our political system and the way politicians are behaving so l fully agree, the turnout at the next GE will be the lowest ever. I’ve voted all my life and next time round l don’t think l'll bother as non of them deserve my vote. This country has gone from one of the strongest and richest in the world to heading to be a 3rd world country with everything from not being capable to defend ourselves and not being able to find a NHS dentist all turning to rat shit. I fear for the future generations in this country unless there is massive turn round in the way we are governed!
 
TSSeasider said:
There is plenty more of this to come.

The closer we get to an election, the more scrutiny will be put on the opposition to be credible and 'for' something; rather than anti-everything.
Click to expand...

Keir might have to become used to making workable political decisions instead of merely criticising Tory policies. Does anyone believe he can do this? I've lost count of his u-turns and flip flops. I seriously worry about the UK if we were drawn into a war as is looking increasingly likely. Starmer might be a good lawyer, but a political leader? I'm far from convinced.
 
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tommytwojags said:
Keir might have to become used to making workable political decisions instead of merely criticising Tory policies. Does anyone believe he can do this? I've lost count of his u-turns and flip flops. I seriously worry about the UK if we were drawn into a war as is looking increasingly likely. Starmer might be a very good lawyer, but a political leader? I'm far from convinced.
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So who do you suggest as a credible alternative?
 
If anyone thinks Labour can/will do a better job then sorry but you will be in for a big shock if they get elected.
Politics is just like Groundhog Day.
Let’s say Labour get in then at the very first PMQs Rishi ( if he is still in charge) will congratulate him and that is where any civility ends because everything will immediately revert to the status quo with the Tories slagging off every single thing that Labour proposes. Just like Labour do with the Tories.
They behave like children and are pathetic and embarrassing to have them running our Country and it just seems to be an acceptable part of being the opposition that you have to act like that.
A prime example was yesterday when Rishi called out Starmer for not being able to identify what a girl is
This was well aired at the time and Starmer was embarrassing. I honestly believe that it was taken totally out of context by the public because Starmer wanted to divert the attention away from himself so made a big issue of it
Had he not responded the way he did then no-one would have said a word. It was in no way a joke or even aimed at Brianna Ghey or her family and if people can’t see that then they are far too sensitive.
This is typical though of our politicians, all they want to do is slag the opposition off. And Angela Raynor is the worst of the lot.
Sadly for us it’s Labour or Tory, always has been, always will be but we need a strong leader and, at this moment in time there seems to be no-one in politics who fits that criteria.
I don’t give a monkey’s who gets in but I do want a party that will do what is best for our Country.


.
 
Eternaloptimist said:
If anyone thinks Labour can/will do a better job then sorry but you will be in for a big shock if they get elected.
Politics is just like Groundhog Day.
Let’s say Labour get in then at the very first PMQs Rishi ( if he is still in charge) will congratulate him and that is where any civility ends because everything will immediately revert to the status quo with the Tories slagging off every single thing that Labour proposes. Just like Labour do with the Tories.
They behave like children and are pathetic and embarrassing to have them running our Country and it just seems to be an acceptable part of being the opposition that you have to act like that.
A prime example was yesterday when Rishi called out Starmer for not being able to identify what a girl is
This was well aired at the time and Starmer was embarrassing. I honestly believe that it was taken totally out of context by the public because Starmer wanted to divert the attention away from himself so made a big issue of it
Had he not responded the way he did then no-one would have said a word. It was in no way a joke or even aimed at Brianna Ghey or her family and if people can’t see that then they are far too sensitive.
This is typical though of our politicians, all they want to do is slag the opposition off. And Angela Raynor is the worst of the lot.
Sadly for us it’s Labour or Tory, always has been, always will be but we need a strong leader and, at this moment in time there seems to be no-one in politics who fits that criteria.
I don’t give a monkey’s who gets in but I do want a party that will do what is best for our Country.


.
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Totally agree with your post but unfortunately you've answered your last sentence with your first sentence ☹️
 
tommytwojags said:
I can't think of one. Any ideas?
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No. Which is part of the wider problem of course. Starmer is the leader of the opposition and therefore, next in line unless something extraordinary happens. The current government are appalling in terms of their performance, reputation and respect within the country and have more than run their course. All in all, the country is being 'led' by the worst set of politicians in my lifetime and all options look underwhelming to say the least.
 
Wizzerboy said:
Totally agree with your post but unfortunately you've answered your last sentence with your first sentence ☹️
Click to expand...
Not really Wizz. I have said that I don’t mind who gets in as long as they do what’s right for the Country.
I wasn’t including the current 2 leaders in that statement. Sorry mate mate, should have been more specific.
 
hertfordseasider said:
He didn't say that, he said they're both as useless as each other, and he's right, politics is in a real mess and it's going to get much worse if there aren't radical changes to how things are done Left to Right, I wouldn't give either of them the time of day,
Click to expand...
And you arrive at your polemic certainty how?
 
Eternaloptimist said:
If anyone thinks Labour can/will do a better job then sorry but you will be in for a big shock if they get elected.
Politics is just like Groundhog Day.
Let’s say Labour get in then at the very first PMQs Rishi ( if he is still in charge) will congratulate him and that is where any civility ends because everything will immediately revert to the status quo with the Tories slagging off every single thing that Labour proposes. Just like Labour do with the Tories.
They behave like children and are pathetic and embarrassing to have them running our Country and it just seems to be an acceptable part of being the opposition that you have to act like that.
A prime example was yesterday when Rishi called out Starmer for not being able to identify what a girl is
This was well aired at the time and Starmer was embarrassing. I honestly believe that it was taken totally out of context by the public because Starmer wanted to divert the attention away from himself so made a big issue of it
Had he not responded the way he did then no-one would have said a word. It was in no way a joke or even aimed at Brianna Ghey or her family and if people can’t see that then they are far too sensitive.
This is typical though of our politicians, all they want to do is slag the opposition off. And Angela Raynor is the worst of the lot.
Sadly for us it’s Labour or Tory, always has been, always will be but we need a strong leader and, at this moment in time there seems to be no-one in politics who fits that criteria.
I don’t give a monkey’s who gets in but I do want a party that will do what is best for our Country.


.
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The thing is, we've had 14 years of one party making it abundantly clear that they are in it purely for themselves.

You have to see if the other lot are the same before deciding they are.
 
Curryman said:
I purchased my first house with a loan, worked on it, sold it and bought a better one for cash and gradually moved up the ladder with the same ethic. Didn't go on fancy holidays, buy over the top phones, TV's, things such as SKY TV etc or be over extravagant on buying flash cars, but set myself a budget and stuck to it. Result, I retired with a reasonable pension, no outstanding debts an old but adequate car and not having to worry about where my pennies are coming from. perhaps I should be a Politician..
Click to expand...
The circumstances are now very different; “they” changed the rules on us. When I bought my first house the price was three times the average wage. Today the price is 7x even up north. In London it’s more like 20x now.
 
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Wizaard said:
The thing is, we've had 14 years of one party making it abundantly clear that they are in it purely for themselves.

You have to see if the other lot are the same before deciding they are.
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Probably right Wiz.
Got to admit though neither of them inspire any confidence at all.
Just something about Starmer that I really don’t like which is no doubt the same feelings about Sunak
 
Wizzerboy said:
Do you not remember sitting in freezing classrooms in coats and gloves in the 70's
Oh the winter of discontent, memories🥶
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It wasn’t the “Winter of Discontent”, that was 1978-79. It was Edward Heath and the Three-Day Week to save electricity which was in the early months of 1974.

I recall the electricity cuts were mainly in the evening/overnight. Hence my overriding memory of candles everywhere. 🕯️🕯️🕯️🕯️

The miners and the railway workers were on strike over pay which had declined in real terms since 1960, which meant coal could not reach the power stations. Heath decided he would not negotiate and would be confrontational with his election slogan “Who governs Britain?”

The workers had turned down a 16.5% pay offer from the Govt ! Remember this was immediately after the Oil Crisis and inflation was rampant. Does it remind you of the current “Cost of Living Crisis”?
 
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Eternaloptimist said:
It was in no way a joke or even aimed at Brianna Ghey or her family and if people can’t see that then they are far too sensitive.
This is typical though of our politicians, all they want to do is slag the opposition off. And Angela Raynor is the worst of the lot.
Click to expand...
Of course Sunak intended it to be a joke, and in extremely poor taste considering Mrs Ghey was in Parliament. Sunak went ahead with it knowing that. Or if he didn’t, he should have. Either nasty or incompetent, your choice.

Angela Rayner is no match for Nye Bevan…

“That is why no amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party that inflicted those bitter experiences on me. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin. They condemned millions of first-class people to semi-starvation.”

“I warn you young men and women, do not listen to what they are saying, do not listen to the seductions of Lord Woolton. They have not changed, or if they have they are slightly worse."

“The (Labour) Government decided the issues in accordance with the best principles. The weak first and the strong next. Mr. Churchill preferred a free-for-all, but what was Toryism except organised Spivvery?”

5th July 1948.

You’re right. Not much has changed.

Mr Bevan's bitter attack on Tories | | The Guardian

<b>From the archive: </b>On this day in 1948, the Guardian reported that the health minister had described Conservatives as 'lower than vermin'.
amp.theguardian.com amp.theguardian.com
 
Bend it like Suddick said:
I agree, and Im sure time will tell, but if he gets to be PM I envisage he's going to be a mitigating disaster.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if a leadership contest takes place within a couple of years.
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If that happened then what would be really concerning would be Raynor taking over. She would be about successful as Liz Truss 😂
 
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