Which players does this formation suit?

A

Adams Kebab

Well-known member
I realise he’s not going to change it but just asking the question.

I would say James Husband & Jordan Rhodes (being upfront in a 2) out of a starting 11. You could make the case for CJ but it can expose him defensively and if the midfield 3 isn’t right (which it very rarely is) then he’s struggling as no options to pass to or to play him bar a long diagonal or to his feet well marked from their full-back.

So that’s 2.5 players.

Now for me, Marvin is our best defender at defending. Keeping the ball out of our goal which with our formation and cautious set-up we seem to be struggling with. In a 3 it is making him exposed.

Dembele is without doubt our best creative player. We need to find a system that lets him do what he can do. It is also clear that when he plays our best wide player is far more effective and has more space.

Carey is probably our next best creative player who appears to be far better when given freedom and not shackled by a system and an electric dog collar that seems to get pinged by our Head Coach if he attempts to go out of his zone.

Jordan Rhodes will score goals if you get him the ball in the box.

Norburn is obviously a big miss and is the focal point centrally as he can do everything Dougall can do but better and also can get on the half turn and move forwards which Dougall can’t (he’s been our best midfielder recently btw).

These are our best 5 players.

Build the system and formation to maximise their performance not decide on your system and shoe-horn players into it who look completely lost or struggle in it. You can have a system but it you haven’t got the players to play it it’s a problem. We had this with Appleton’s 4-3-3 FFS and him not having the players to play it.

Build the starting 11 around Dembele.
 
Adams Kebab said:
I realise he’s not going to change it but just asking the question.

I would say James Husband & Jordan Rhodes (being upfront in a 2) out of a starting 11. You could make the case for CJ but it can expose him defensively and if the midfield 3 isn’t right (which it very rarely is) then he’s struggling as no options to pass to or to play him bar a long diagonal or to his feet well marked from their full-back.

So that’s 2.5 players.

Now for me, Marvin is our best defender at defending. Keeping the ball out of our goal which with our formation and cautious set-up we seem to be struggling with. In a 3 it is making him exposed.

Dembele is without doubt our best creative player. We need to find a system that lets him do what he can do. It is also clear that when he plays our best wide player is far more effective and has more space.

Carey is probably our next best creative player who appears to be far better when given freedom and not shackled by a system and an electric dog collar that seems to get pinged by our Head Coach if he attempts to go out of his zone.

Jordan Rhodes will score goals if you get him the ball in the box.

Norburn is obviously a big miss and is the focal point centrally as he can do everything Dougall can do but better and also can get on the half turn and move forwards which Dougall can’t (he’s been our best midfielder recently btw).

These are our best 5 players.

Build the system and formation to maximise their performance not decide on your system and shoe-horn players into it who look completely lost or struggle in it. You can have a system but it you haven’t got the players to play it it’s a problem. We had this with Appleton’s 4-3-3 FFS and him not having the players to play it.

Build the starting 11 around Dembele.
Click to expand...
The point was made by someone else yesterday, but Marvin (our best defender) needs to be able to pass the ball and play football in any system (4 included) that needs us to build from the back and retain possession.

Arguably he’s been a limiting factor (to that extent) for a few seasons. Should we be forced to essentially play hoof ball, because our ‘best defender’ is so poor on the ball?

I think most other players are just fine with the system and adapting to it. I think ultimately it allows far more flexibility for us, but obviously we need to get the central midfield right.
 
I think this is his biggest problem as a manager - rather than start with the best players and work them in to a formation, he starts with the formation and looks at what players he has. Seriously flawed approach to football management!
 
5 of the top 6 in this league last year played this system that would of had a bearing on his thinking
 
I don't think the formation specifically is the problem, it's how he's choosing to play it. The 3 midfielders are played nearly flat to cover the whole width of the pitch which leaves huge holes for the opposition to literally just run through. Add to that your playing players not in their best position.
We have played best when we have had 2 holding proper central midfielders to control that area with a floater in front to get on the ball but for whatever reason he is reluctant to play that way.
I can't see what he is seeing with how he's wanting the midfield to work. I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's weird and it just doesn't work.
 
Adams Kebab said:
I realise he’s not going to change it but just asking the question.

I would say James Husband & Jordan Rhodes (being upfront in a 2) out of a starting 11. You could make the case for CJ but it can expose him defensively and if the midfield 3 isn’t right (which it very rarely is) then he’s struggling as no options to pass to or to play him bar a long diagonal or to his feet well marked from their full-back.

So that’s 2.5 players.

Now for me, Marvin is our best defender at defending. Keeping the ball out of our goal which with our formation and cautious set-up we seem to be struggling with. In a 3 it is making him exposed.

Dembele is without doubt our best creative player. We need to find a system that lets him do what he can do. It is also clear that when he plays our best wide player is far more effective and has more space.

Carey is probably our next best creative player who appears to be far better when given freedom and not shackled by a system and an electric dog collar that seems to get pinged by our Head Coach if he attempts to go out of his zone.

Jordan Rhodes will score goals if you get him the ball in the box.

Norburn is obviously a big miss and is the focal point centrally as he can do everything Dougall can do but better and also can get on the half turn and move forwards which Dougall can’t (he’s been our best midfielder recently btw).

These are our best 5 players.

Build the system and formation to maximise their performance not decide on your system and shoe-horn players into it who look completely lost or struggle in it. You can have a system but it you haven’t got the players to play it it’s a problem. We had this with Appleton’s 4-3-3 FFS and him not having the players to play it.

Build the starting 11 around Dembele.
Click to expand...
I would go a step further and build the team around Rhodes Lavery and Dembele..there’s a shed load of goals there..Norburn has to play if fit but you can perm the rest.. husband is my player of the season thus far and should also be nailed on but maybe he will struggle to last all season week in week out
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
The point was made by someone else yesterday, but Marvin (our best defender) needs to be able to pass the ball and play football in any system (4 included) that needs us to build from the back and retain possession.

Arguably he’s been a limiting factor (to that extent) for a few seasons. Should we be forced to essentially play hoof ball, because our ‘best defender’ is so poor on the ball?

I think most other players are just fine with the system and adapting to it. I think ultimately it allows far more flexibility for us, but obviously we need to get the central midfield right.
Click to expand...
Marvin has always been poor on the ball and when many fans were saying he will be a top prem player I pointed out that his distribution will always let him down and hold him back .To be fair none of the centre backs have great distribution and Husband Casey and Pennington also struggle to find a killer ball.. that’s why Norburn has to drop in so often to pick the ball up Kevin Stewart style (when he was fit).
 
Good op asking a very relevant question. For me, three centre halves breeds indecision (at least with the ones we have) and leaves us light in the midfield battle ground. I know we won't change but i do believe a four would help our better players to do what they do best. The point about Marv is well made, these days a centre half has to have at least basic distribution skills. Marv needs to sharpen up in that area to be a regular.
 
Husband Pennington Norburn Dougall Dembele Rhodes

Build the team around a spine of those six. Lavery on form makes 7 but he dips in and out and gets injured, Virtue the same. The rest not consistent enough either. Up to now.
 
The defensive qualities of the back 3 and also the ability of the holding Midfielder (s) is important. I think the system itself should ideally enable the ‘Wing Backs’ to be more of the ‘Winger’ than the ‘Back’ to be at its most effective.

How we fill the gaps when we lose possession is important.

Whilst I think were great when we are dominating, there will be times when we lose possession or struggle to impose ourselves and we’ve got to find a way to be comfortable and solid in those periods.

It’s all well and good people talking about attack, attack etc.. but that’s not reality and it’s not the solution to why we’re leaking goals right now..

For me personally we need an experienced CH who is defensively assured and comfortable on the ball. We need a commanding GK who dominates his area and we need Virtue and Norburn fit and available.
 
RambleFan said:
We have attacking full backs in Thompson , Lyons and Gabriel. We could potentially play 4 3 1 2 using dembele behind lavery and Rhodes in a hoolahan type role of just do what you want.
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I think in some ways this makes a lot of sense. Dembele can be given that 'free role' behind the front too and look to link the play. You'd need a steady 3 behind, which I presume is Norburn, the Aussie fella and 1 other. The issue with this sort of formation is that it's typically quite narrow, so you'd be looking to channel balls often through the middle (primarily via Dembele). This doesn't play to Rhodes strengths though, which is probably key to whatever formation you go with. You could argue of the 4 at the back, you'll have flying wingbacks to allow the aerial support to Rhodes, but that leaves your defence then exposed on the flanks...

Given the way i've seen you play, getting plenty of balls into the box is probably your best bet, whether it's using Kouassi's strength or Rhodes fox in the box type predatory. So i'd be aiming to build the play in that manner, which would probably end up with me going for a 5-3-2/3-5-2 (in possession) type formation. I have a feeling you guys have said that's not worked though...
 
The interesting thing about yesterday was if he did start with a set formation which I presume was 5-3-2 .. did we end up with that?
 
3 2 3 2
Suits us fine, he just needs to give one of Dembele or Carey licence to roam and wreak havoc from the advanced 3.
He also needs to get the selection of the wide players right in the advanced 3. We don't always need to start with Hamilton. Against Cheltenham at home you possibly start with Hamilton and Dale as wingbacks against Bolton away Thompson and Lyons might be the better option.
I prefer a formation that gives us 2 up front and bodies in midfield so what we are doing is probably best use of the squad, he just needs to pick the right players!
 
Brian Clough once said football is a simple game. I wonder what he'd make of today's football and VAR.
I still believe it's a simple game but it's been made complicated by coaches who want to reinvent the game.
 
neyo said:
I think in some ways this makes a lot of sense. Dembele can be given that 'free role' behind the front too and look to link the play. You'd need a steady 3 behind, which I presume is Norburn, the Aussie fella and 1 other. The issue with this sort of formation is that it's typically quite narrow, so you'd be looking to channel balls often through the middle (primarily via Dembele). This doesn't play to Rhodes strengths though, which is probably key to whatever formation you go with. You could argue of the 4 at the back, you'll have flying wingbacks to allow the aerial support to Rhodes, but that leaves your defence then exposed on the flanks...

Given the way i've seen you play, getting plenty of balls into the box is probably your best bet, whether it's using Kouassi's strength or Rhodes fox in the box type predatory. So i'd be aiming to build the play in that manner, which would probably end up with me going for a 5-3-2/3-5-2 (in possession) type formation. I have a feeling you guys have said that's not worked though...
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It does if you pick the right players in the right positions against the right opposition. The squad provides everything that's needed Critchley just needs to pick the right ones.
As for opinion on here there are a large number that can't see beyond 4 4 2 with Madine being one of the front 2!!
 
Costero Poderoso said:
seriously flawed approach to any management system.
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It’s actually the only sensible approach to any management system.

A business doesn’t base its business strategy around the limitations of its existing employees.

A football club shouldn’t limit its aspirations due to the limitations of certain players.

The only time it would be appropriate to build a formation to match the players would be when you need to get short term results to prevent relegation.
 
GaryMadineGoalMachine said:
I think this is his biggest problem as a manager - rather than start with the best players and work them in to a formation, he starts with the formation and looks at what players he has. Seriously flawed approach to football management!
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It could be argued that is what Sir Alf did in 1966.

It seemed to work for him.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
It’s actually the only sensible approach to any management system.

A business doesn’t base its business strategy around the limitations of its existing employees.

A football club shouldn’t limit its aspirations due to the limitations of certain players.

The only time it would be appropriate to build a formation to match the players would be when you need to get short term results to prevent relegation.
Click to expand...
Thing is playing 3 at the back and being flexible with the other 7 outfield players does suit our squad.
Critchley has got this right, just needs to make the right call with the 7.
 
Ironically it suits Dembele but he still has a reluctance to start him. The free role he was given first half really suited him.
 
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