Williamson

[EPM46]

“Oliver Dowden, a more senior minister to Sir Gavin at the Cabinet Office, today admitted the PM knew Sir Gavin was subject to a complaint.

But he denied Mr Sunak had seen the messages or was aware of 'specific allegations' when he appointed Sir Gavin“

So, Sunak WAS told there had been a formal complaint submitted BEFORE Williamson was re-appointed to a Cabinet position, but was not aware of the specific allegations!

So, having been told, how likely is it that Sunak would not have asked what the complaint was about?

Bringing back integrity and professionalism to politics, my backside!

 

[CCFskiver]

The cracks are appearing already !!

 

[Wizaard]

“Oliver Dowden, a more senior minister to Sir Gavin at the Cabinet Office, today admitted the PM knew Sir Gavin was subject to a complaint.

But he denied Mr Sunak had seen the messages or was aware of 'specific allegations' when he appointed Sir Gavin“

So, Sunak WAS told there had been a formal complaint submitted BEFORE Williamson was re-appointed to a Cabinet position, but was not aware of the specific allegations!

So, having been told, how likely is it that Sunak would not have asked what the complaint was about?

Bringing back integrity and professionalism to politics, my backside!

Added to Braverman having 6 days in between stints. 'A resignation matter' that only lasts 6 days.

 

[Tangerinemoss]

Here's to the New Boss,
Same as th Old Boss

 

[glasshalffull]

Why would he actually want this guy in the cabinet anyway? He hardly seems to be worth all the trouble.
I seem to remember hearing (he has my apologies if I have got this wrong though) that he had to be treated carefully because he knew where all the bodies were buried or something like that, but I assumed that related to Boris rather than Sunak? Presumably it has already got him a knighthood as well.

 

[Mexboroseasider]

Why would he actually want this guy in the cabinet anyway? He hardly seems to be worth all the trouble.
I seem to remember hearing (he has my apologies if I have got this wrong though) that he had to be treated with carefully because he knew where all the bodies were buried or something like that, but I assumed that related to Boris rather than Sunak? Presumably it has already got him a knighthood as well.

Nah I don’t get it either.

RishiWashy.

 

[Cuthbert]

“Oliver Dowden, a more senior minister to Sir Gavin at the Cabinet Office, today admitted the PM knew Sir Gavin was subject to a complaint.

But he denied Mr Sunak had seen the messages or was aware of 'specific allegations' when he appointed Sir Gavin“

So, Sunak WAS told there had been a formal complaint submitted BEFORE Williamson was re-appointed to a Cabinet position, but was not aware of the specific allegations!

So, having been told, how likely is it that Sunak would not have asked what the complaint was about?

Bringing back integrity and professionalism to politics, my backside!

You’re missing the point surely. Williamson was a woeful Minister and widely ridiculed he ain’t fit to be in Government irrespective

 

[Matesrates]

I’ve met him, he’s weak, cant un how he was knighted

 

[traffordtang]

I’ve met him, he’s weak, cant un how he was knighted

Because he knew things?

 

[Matesrates]

Because he knew things?

Didn’t seem to have a clue

 

[traffordtang]

Didn’t seem to have a clue

And yet he gets a knighthood that no one can or will explain

 

[gjr69]

If he has a knighthood they really don't count for very much.

 

[Malced]

Here we go again with another witch hunt.

As soon as the new PM took his place, the press went for him on Braverman. Story after story. Or should I say, non-story after non-story. Drip drip drip day after day. They were persistent, I’ll give them that.
The media outside her house every day as she got into her car to go to work. Shouting questions at her like they were baying for blood.
The nasally Starmer added fuel to the fire. Wouldn’t it be such a coup for him and Labour if they could force her resignation. He called for her to go. But she didn’t budge. He tried and tried his best at PMQ’s, but then his best isn’t very good is it..
So the media tried and tried again. A ‘breaking news’ story was revealed that she didn’t report her email transgressions straight away, but took several hours. Wow! How awful! She has to go! But she didn’t. Ok - let’s try err ‘ she blocked hotel contracts!! She must resign again!’
But she didn’t did she. She procured more hotels in her time than anyone else had done.
So finally they’ve given up. Well that’s boring. How do we try to bring Rishi Washi down now? I know let’s go for someone else! We can’t find anyone too senior so it will have to be good old Gavin. Has he committed a sex offence? Did rishi know before he appointed him? Err well no. But he sent some angry messages containing grown up swear words. Ok - let’s call it BULLYING!! Yes by jove, that’ll do it. But they were sent to the Chief Whipp - the queen of bullying. The most hard nosed of all the government. Ssshhh - don’t mention that. Let’s go for it. We need another faux scandal. We’ve been getting nowhere since Boris left. Maybe there’s something we can find on Rishi’s wallpaper purchases, but let’s run the Gav stories whilst we keep digging.

Give me a break. It’s so lame. He sent a few messages. Have you seen what he wrote? They’re hardly bullying messages. This is a non-story. Non-scandal.

Please can we get back to serious news reporting such as the happenings at cop 27, rather than filling the airwaves with four or five days of constant tedious futile irrelevant tittle tattle about a few unpleasant texts. And by the way, that’s all they are - unpleasant.

 

[Walthamstow_Seasider]

Here we go again with another witch hunt.

As soon as the new PM took his place, the press went for him on Braverman. Story after story. Or should I say, non-story after non-story. Drip drip drip day after day. They were persistent, I’ll give them that.
The media outside her house every day as she got into her car to go to work. Shouting questions at her like they were baying for blood.
The nasally Starmer added fuel to the fire. Wouldn’t it be such a coup for him and Labour if they could force her resignation. He called for her to go. But she didn’t budge. He tried and tried his best at PMQ’s, but then his best isn’t very good is it..
So the media tried and tried again. A ‘breaking news’ story was revealed that she didn’t report her email transgressions straight away, but took several hours. Wow! How awful! She has to go! But she didn’t. Ok - let’s try err ‘ she blocked hotel contracts!! She must resign again!’
But she didn’t did she. She procured more hotels in her time than anyone else had done.
So finally they’ve given up. Well that’s boring. How do we try to bring Rishi Washi down now? I know let’s go for someone else! We can’t find anyone too senior so it will have to be good old Gavin. Has he committed a sex offence? Did rishi know before he appointed him? Err well no. But he sent some angry messages containing grown up swear words. Ok - let’s call it BULLYING!! Yes by jove, that’ll do it. But they were sent to the Chief Whipp - the queen of bullying. The most hard nosed of all the government. Ssshhh - don’t mention that. Let’s go for it. We need another faux scandal. We’ve been getting nowhere since Boris left. Maybe there’s something we can find on Rishi’s wallpaper purchases, but let’s run the Gav stories whilst we keep digging.

Give me a break. It’s so lame. He sent a few messages. Have you seen what he wrote? They’re hardly bullying messages. This is a non-story. Non-scandal.

Please can we get back to serious news reporting such as the happenings at cop 27, rather than filling the airwaves with four or five days of constant tedious futile irrelevant tittle tattle about a few unpleasant texts. And by the way, that’s all they are - unpleasant.

I understand the Conservative Party are investigating a bullying and harassment complaint from the female recipient of the texts, so it's not an invention of the media or opposition. Correct me if I'm wrong.

It's not a great look to, appear to, find the bullying and harassment of women so amusing or dismiss it so readily.

 

[Mexboroseasider]

I understand the Conservative Party are investigating a bullying and harassment complaint from the female recipient of the texts, so it's not an invention of the media or opposition. Correct me if I'm wrong.

It's not a great look to, appear to, find the bullying and harassment of women so amusing or dismiss it so readily.

Exactly. It’s Blue on Blue and part of the ongoing Civil War in the Conservative Party: this time Truss v Sunak supporters.

But obviously the RW weirdos like to ignore that fact and attribute it to a media conspiracy.

It’ll be QAnon and posts in support of Putin next.

 

[1966_and_all_that]

Here we go again with another witch hunt.

As soon as the new PM took his place, the press went for him on Braverman. Story after story. Or should I say, non-story after non-story. Drip drip drip day after day. They were persistent, I’ll give them that.
The media outside her house every day as she got into her car to go to work. Shouting questions at her like they were baying for blood.
The nasally Starmer added fuel to the fire. Wouldn’t it be such a coup for him and Labour if they could force her resignation. He called for her to go. But she didn’t budge. He tried and tried his best at PMQ’s, but then his best isn’t very good is it..
So the media tried and tried again. A ‘breaking news’ story was revealed that she didn’t report her email transgressions straight away, but took several hours. Wow! How awful! She has to go! But she didn’t. Ok - let’s try err ‘ she blocked hotel contracts!! She must resign again!’
But she didn’t did she. She procured more hotels in her time than anyone else had done.
So finally they’ve given up. Well that’s boring. How do we try to bring Rishi Washi down now? I know let’s go for someone else! We can’t find anyone too senior so it will have to be good old Gavin. Has he committed a sex offence? Did rishi know before he appointed him? Err well no. But he sent some angry messages containing grown up swear words. Ok - let’s call it BULLYING!! Yes by jove, that’ll do it. But they were sent to the Chief Whipp - the queen of bullying. The most hard nosed of all the government. Ssshhh - don’t mention that. Let’s go for it. We need another faux scandal. We’ve been getting nowhere since Boris left. Maybe there’s something we can find on Rishi’s wallpaper purchases, but let’s run the Gav stories whilst we keep digging.

Give me a break. It’s so lame. He sent a few messages. Have you seen what he wrote? They’re hardly bullying messages. This is a non-story. Non-scandal.

Please can we get back to serious news reporting such as the happenings at cop 27, rather than filling the airwaves with four or five days of constant tedious futile irrelevant tittle tattle about a few unpleasant texts. And by the way, that’s all they are - unpleasant.

Where were your 'witch hunt' posts when the media were tittle-tattling about Corbyn, Abbott and McDonnell? What's sauce for the goose eh?

 

[ElBurroSinNombre]

Where we're your 'witch hunt' posts when the media were tittle-tattling about Corbyn, Abbott and McDonnell? What's sauce for the goose eh?

Agreed. More fuss was made about Diane Abbot enjoying a spritzer on the tube than was made about a home secretary who is a threat to national security and comes across like a modern day Enoch Powell.
On Williamson, the pertinent thing is that he is that he is abusive to the whip because he wants a seat at the queen's funeral, if he was batting on a point of principle or for his constituents I would be more sympathetic as the messages don't seem particularly abusive and I am sure the whips hear a lot worse. As mex points out, the Conservative party are having a civil war, in normal times this would not be leaked, Sunak as PM hasn't unified the party. Expect a lot more stuff like this, hopefully we can have an election sooner than two years from now.

 

[Trammo]

Agreed. More fuss was made about Diane Abbot enjoying a spritzer on the tube than was made about a home secretary who is a threat to national security and comes across like a modern day Enoch Powell.
On Williamson, the pertinent thing is that he is that he is abusive to the whip because he wants a seat at the queen's funeral, if he was batting on a point of principle or for his constituents I would be more sympathetic as the messages don't seem particularly abusive and I am sure the whips hear a lot worse. As mex points out, the Conservative party are having a civil war, in normal times this would not be leaked, Sunak as PM hasn't unified the party. Expect a lot more stuff like this, hopefully we can have an election sooner than two years from now.

Keep hoping for things that will actually take longer than you think. Early election, joining the single market within 15 years.

 

[EPM46]

Here we go again with another witch hunt.

As soon as the new PM took his place, the press went for him on Braverman. Story after story. Or should I say, non-story after non-story. Drip drip drip day after day. They were persistent, I’ll give them that.
The media outside her house every day as she got into her car to go to work. Shouting questions at her like they were baying for blood.
The nasally Starmer added fuel to the fire. Wouldn’t it be such a coup for him and Labour if they could force her resignation. He called for her to go. But she didn’t budge. He tried and tried his best at PMQ’s, but then his best isn’t very good is it..
So the media tried and tried again. A ‘breaking news’ story was revealed that she didn’t report her email transgressions straight away, but took several hours. Wow! How awful! She has to go! But she didn’t. Ok - let’s try err ‘ she blocked hotel contracts!! She must resign again!’
But she didn’t did she. She procured more hotels in her time than anyone else had done.
So finally they’ve given up. Well that’s boring. How do we try to bring Rishi Washi down now? I know let’s go for someone else! We can’t find anyone too senior so it will have to be good old Gavin. Has he committed a sex offence? Did rishi know before he appointed him? Err well no. But he sent some angry messages containing grown up swear words. Ok - let’s call it BULLYING!! Yes by jove, that’ll do it. But they were sent to the Chief Whipp - the queen of bullying. The most hard nosed of all the government. Ssshhh - don’t mention that. Let’s go for it. We need another faux scandal. We’ve been getting nowhere since Boris left. Maybe there’s something we can find on Rishi’s wallpaper purchases, but let’s run the Gav stories whilst we keep digging.

Give me a break. It’s so lame. He sent a few messages. Have you seen what he wrote? They’re hardly bullying messages. This is a non-story. Non-scandal.

Please can we get back to serious news reporting such as the happenings at cop 27, rather than filling the airwaves with four or five days of constant tedious futile irrelevant tittle tattle about a few unpleasant texts. And by the way, that’s all they are - unpleasant.

Can you tell us in what other working environment would abusive, threatening , expletive ridden texts of this nature would be acceptable and not lead to disciplinary action? Why should Westminster be any different?

 

[glasshalffull]

Here we go again with another witch hunt.

As soon as the new PM took his place, the press went for him on Braverman. Story after story. Or should I say, non-story after non-story. Drip drip drip day after day. They were persistent, I’ll give them that.
The media outside her house every day as she got into her car to go to work. Shouting questions at her like they were baying for blood.
The nasally Starmer added fuel to the fire. Wouldn’t it be such a coup for him and Labour if they could force her resignation. He called for her to go. But she didn’t budge. He tried and tried his best at PMQ’s, but then his best isn’t very good is it..
So the media tried and tried again. A ‘breaking news’ story was revealed that she didn’t report her email transgressions straight away, but took several hours. Wow! How awful! She has to go! But she didn’t. Ok - let’s try err ‘ she blocked hotel contracts!! She must resign again!’
But she didn’t did she. She procured more hotels in her time than anyone else had done.
So finally they’ve given up. Well that’s boring. How do we try to bring Rishi Washi down now? I know let’s go for someone else! We can’t find anyone too senior so it will have to be good old Gavin. Has he committed a sex offence? Did rishi know before he appointed him? Err well no. But he sent some angry messages containing grown up swear words. Ok - let’s call it BULLYING!! Yes by jove, that’ll do it. But they were sent to the Chief Whipp - the queen of bullying. The most hard nosed of all the government. Ssshhh - don’t mention that. Let’s go for it. We need another faux scandal. We’ve been getting nowhere since Boris left. Maybe there’s something we can find on Rishi’s wallpaper purchases, but let’s run the Gav stories whilst we keep digging.

Give me a break. It’s so lame. He sent a few messages. Have you seen what he wrote? They’re hardly bullying messages. This is a non-story. Non-scandal.

Please can we get back to serious news reporting such as the happenings at cop 27, rather than filling the airwaves with four or five days of constant tedious futile irrelevant tittle tattle about a few unpleasant texts. And by the way, that’s all they are - unpleasant.

Braverman should not really be in post so soon after her security leaks, but Sunak had to appoint her because that was the price of his getting into no 10, and he is not now in a position to sack her, not that he will want to while she is doing such a good job of stoking the fire in the immigration culture war.

Williamson is an idiot, and should not have been reappointed.

The media will soon move on to other things though.

 

[Malced]

Braverman should not really be in post so soon after her security leaks, but Sunak had to appoint her because that was the price of his getting into no 10, and he is not now in a position to sack her, not that he will want to while she is doing such a good job of stoking the fire in the immigration culture war.

Williamson is an idiot, and should not have been reappointed.

The media will soon move on to other things though.

I don’t disagree with any of that.

 

[TangerineBayern]

Can you tell us in what other working environment would abusive, threatening , expletive ridden texts of this nature would be acceptable and not lead to disciplinary action? Why should Westminster be any different?

Spot on! You would be severely disciplined or even dismissed in most organisations for what tantamounts to abusive and threatening behaviour to a fellow work colleague. I know the worlds gone as soft as shit and woke stupid but it’s now unfortunately the world we live and work in! You put anything wrong in writing particularly via email, then it will inevitably come back and bite you in the backside!

Edit to add: Williamson (aka Frank Spencer) is feckin useless anyway and has already been sacked from senior cabinet positions, how he got knighted begs belief but as has been said he probably has the keys to the skeleton cupboard!

 

[Ollygon]

Heartburn and Indigestion?

Gavisgone.

 

[Davepick]

Nothing so untruthful as an MP denial.
Not just the current Cabinet, but others as well.
Of all parties.

 

[glasshalffull]

Keep hoping for things that will actually take longer than you think. Early election, joining the single market within 15 years.

I think the only people who might want an election now just as the shit is really about to hit the fan are Conservatives (though probably not Sunak as he has just got the big job) and maybe the SNP.
If they could get into opposition with 250 ish seats while the storm rages I think a lot of them would take it. Trouble is they would risk losing an awful lot more seats.
Why would Labour want to go into office now, whatever they are saying in public?

 

[Malced]

Can you tell us in what other working environment would abusive, threatening , expletive ridden texts of this nature would be acceptable and not lead to disciplinary action? Why should Westminster be any different?

Why would Westminster be any different? Is that a serious question? Politics and Westminster IS different.
In what other ‘business’ would it be acceptable to have various opposing sides of publicly funded officials hurling abuse at each other like a rowdy rabble every Wednesday lunchtime?

In what other business would there be an official who’s job is to practically threaten and bully you to fall into line and vote as your told to rather than by your own principles and beliefs? That’s exactly what happens in politics. So it isn’t the same as other working environments.

(Didn’t Angela Raynor call the Tories scum? I think you’ll find she did.)

I’d also be unsurprised if there’s colourful messages sent about or to other senior officials in private sector organisations. There’s always power struggles across boardrooms and believe it or not, people use foul language when under pressure or to show dissatisfaction.

When I worked for the civil service, I had a senior manager ring me at home to deliver a four letter tirade whilst I was preparing breakfast for my daughters.

I also regularly was copied into unprofessional email spats between bickering members of the senior management team. That was the culture at that level. I’m not saying it’s right. But in the scheme of things the texts by Williamson are not much to write home about. They’re a story for today but a story which is soon to be forgotten. It’s tedious.

 

[BigHandsOliverKahn]

When politicians like Williamson keep getting sacked and then awarded these top jobs again, it makes our democracy look like a complete and utter joke. How can they not see this?

Is it a case of the Brexit fiasco meaning there is absolutely nobody left in the Conservative party that has any remaining credibility so they are literally so desperate for anyone at all to fill these positions no matter how low they have to scrape the barrel?

 

[EPM46]

Why would Westminster be any different? Is that a serious question? Politics and Westminster IS different.
In what other ‘business’ would it be acceptable to have various opposing sides of publicly funded officials hurling abuse at each other like a rowdy rabble every Wednesday lunchtime?

In what other business would there be an official who’s job is to practically threaten and bully you to fall into line and vote as your told to rather than by your own principles and beliefs? That’s exactly what happens in politics. So it isn’t the same as other working environments.

(Didn’t Angela Raynor call the Tories scum? I think you’ll find she did.)

I’d also be unsurprised if there’s colourful messages sent about or to other senior officials in private sector organisations. There’s always power struggles across boardrooms and believe it or not, people use foul language when under pressure or to show dissatisfaction.

When I worked for the civil service, I had a senior manager ring me at home to deliver a four letter tirade whilst I was preparing breakfast for my daughters.

I also regularly was copied into unprofessional email spats between bickering members of the senior management team. That was the culture at that level. I’m not saying it’s right. But in the scheme of things the texts by Williamson are not much to write home about. They’re a story for today but a story which is soon to be forgotten. It’s tedious.

It appears that you are in a minority of ONE on this thread! Trying to defend the indefensible!
If you were prepared to tolerate a senior manager ring you at home “to deliver a four letter tirade” without taking any action, then I would say more fool you!
Even Sunak has belatedly said that Williamson’s texts are unacceptable!

 

[Macseasider]

It appears that you are in a minority of ONE on this thread! Trying to defend the indefensible!
If you were prepared to tolerate a senior manager ring you at home “to deliver a four letter tirade” without taking any action, then I would say more fool you!
Even Sunak has belatedly said that Williamson’s texts are unacceptable!

Ignore him. I don't for one second think he believes anything he types. Just an internet "persona" he's devised so he can move on from posting about mayonnaise.

 

[Malced]

It appears that you are in a minority of ONE on this thread! Trying to defend the indefensible!
If you were prepared to tolerate a senior manager ring you at home “to deliver a four letter tirade” without taking any action, then I would say more fool you!
Even Sunak has belatedly said that Williamson’s texts are unacceptable!

So I've shown why Westminster IS different and you've nothing to say other than I've been outvoted by you and your mates. I must be wrong then.
I don't care what anyone else thinks. i give my opinion and you can take it or leave it.
I said the messages were unpleasant. Sunak said unacceptable. Ok - so can we move on now please? Its completely as I described - a non-story of very low impact and low significance. It's nowhere near the level or gravity of misconduct which would lose him his position, much to the dismay of anyone trying to damage the PM and his new cabinet.
Braverman hasn't been brought down so now we have this shocking 'scandal' of a naughty potty mouth minister in a he said/she said revelation. Its hardly captured the imagination of level-headed AVFTT users, exactly because its nothing much of note.
By the way, when you are junior to an aggressive bullying manager its not so easy to deal with. Saying 'more fool you' is actually revealing that it a case of more fool EPM46!
There's no proof to start with. Then there's the fact that other senior managers would stick together and defend the one complained about. You have to carry on working with the person so you have to take that into account. Making a complaint would make your job, a job you enjoy, almost untenable. The manager is the one who influences your promotion chances and does your reports. You don't want to lose your temporary promotion. You doubt yourself. You question yourself as to whether you brought the abuse on yourself. You don't want to appear weak, or a trouble maker. You worry about your reputation. You hope that things will improve. You stay quiet for the greater good. So yeah 'more fool you' is a ridiculous and far too simple assessment of a very difficult position which perhaps you've never had the misfortune to be in.

 

[EPM46]

I think I will leave your opinion, if that’s okay with you. There is little point in debating with someone who has such entrenched
views! Btw, your last two paragraphs are laughable!
As Mac says, best to ignore you!

 

[Malced]

I think I will leave your opinion, if that’s okay with you. There is little point in debating with someone who has such entrenched
views! Btw, your last two paragraphs are laughable!
As Mac says, best to ignore you!

well you started the thread and you've not shifted your position at all. yet if it's to be a worthwhile debate for you I'm meant to shift my position. that's an interesting approach you have to debate. but it wasn't meant to be a debate at all was it? you wanted your like minded pals to join in the condemnation with you. how awkward then that someone challenged the popular narrative. let's ignore him cos he doesn't agree with us. how very immature.

 

[glasshalffull]

“Slit your throat and jump out of the window”. This is what a senior defence department official claims Sir Gavin said to him at a meeting with several witnesses apparently.
Not sure he is going to survive in the cabinet for long now?

 

[ElBurroSinNombre]

“Slit your throat and jump out of the window”. This is what a senior defence department official claims Sir Gavin said to him at a meeting with several witnesses apparently.
Not sure he is going to survive in the cabinet for long now?

He doesn't deny using those words because there were several witnesses.
Not sure I could get away with that in my job.
It seems like he has plenty of enemies, there is probably a lot more to come, I'd say he is on his way back to the back benches.

 

[1966_and_all_that]

So I've shown why Westminster IS different and you've nothing to say other than I've been outvoted by you and your mates. I must be wrong then.
I don't care what anyone else thinks. i give my opinion and you can take it or leave it.
I said the messages were unpleasant. Sunak said unacceptable. Ok - so can we move on now please? Its completely as I described - a non-story of very low impact and low significance. It's nowhere near the level or gravity of misconduct which would lose him his position, much to the dismay of anyone trying to damage the PM and his new cabinet.
Braverman hasn't been brought down so now we have this shocking 'scandal' of a naughty potty mouth minister in a he said/she said revelation. Its hardly captured the imagination of level-headed AVFTT users, exactly because its nothing much of note.
By the way, when you are junior to an aggressive bullying manager its not so easy to deal with. Saying 'more fool you' is actually revealing that it a case of more fool EPM46!
There's no proof to start with. Then there's the fact that other senior managers would stick together and defend the one complained about. You have to carry on working with the person so you have to take that into account. Making a complaint would make your job, a job you enjoy, almost untenable. The manager is the one who influences your promotion chances and does your reports. You don't want to lose your temporary promotion. You doubt yourself. You question yourself as to whether you brought the abuse on yourself. You don't want to appear weak, or a trouble maker. You worry about your reputation. You hope that things will improve. You stay quiet for the greater good. So yeah 'more fool you' is a ridiculous and far too simple assessment of a very difficult position which perhaps you've never had the misfortune to be in.

Does this post reveal more about yourself than it does a determination to defend Government ministers?

 

[southshorepool]

He doesn't deny using those words because there were several witnesses.
Not sure I could get away with that in my job.
It seems like he has plenty of enemies, there is probably a lot more to come, I'd say he is on his way back to the back benches.

I'd be sacked if I sent those sort of emails/ messages to any of the staff in my department. Simple as that.

 

[Wizaard]

He doesn't deny using those words because there were several witnesses.
Not sure I could get away with that in my job.
It seems like he has plenty of enemies, there is probably a lot more to come, I'd say he is on his way back to the back benches.

Plus as a Minister, there's not a lot a civil servant can do. Abuse of power.

Westminster really isn't different. Common decency and respect should be everywhere.

 

[Matesrates]

As I said in my earlier post, he’s a weak man and when weak men get in a position of power they bully to hide their weaknesses.

 

[glasshalffull]

Sunak should show that he himself is not weak and get rid asap, unless of course there is a reason we don’t know about which means he can’t?
Boris’s undoing started with him inexplicably trying to move mountains and change the rules just to protect Owen Patterson, and he never recovered.

 

[Malced]

Does this post reveal more about yourself than it does a determination to defend Government ministers?

Probably. Especially as I’m not determined to defend government ministers. I’m just not a fan of the way we keep getting the news agenda hijacked with story after story presented as if it’s a scandal of watergate proportions when it’s not.
Sending sorme aggressively worded texts to a chief whipp is nowhere near of sufficient significance to justify the airtime it’s getting.

It hasn’t brought him down so now we see the guardian has found a mysterious former employee who claims historical bullying. If the latter is true then I wouldn’t have any sympathy if he were to lose his job. It’s vile and on a different level to sending texts to a hard nosed chief whipp who was chosen for the role because of her robust personality characteristics.

But we don’t know if it’s true. They’re very extreme and weird things to say. Slit your throat? Very bizarre and difficult to comprehend. I’d support an enquiry because defending one’s self against an anonymous source leaking to a left wing paper is impossible. But it is another seen before example when there’s an effort to bring someone down. If at first you don’t succeed drip drip again.

 

[ElBurroSinNombre]

But we don’t know if it’s true. They’re very extreme and weird things to say. Slit your throat? Very bizarre and difficult to comprehend. I’d support an enquiry because defending one’s self against an anonymous source leaking to a left wing paper is impossible. But it is another seen before example when there’s an effort to bring someone down. If at first you don’t succeed drip drip again.

Williamson has commented on this report and hasn't denied making the comments.
There were several witnesses according to the whistle-blower.
This all points to the report being true - anything published in a reputable newspaper will have two sources in any case.
If it isn't true (as it would seem that you would like), Williamson of course has recourse to the courts and the generous UK libel laws. I am not aware that he is taking any action.
In short, it is true.

 

[Wizaard]

Probably. Especially as I’m not determined to defend government ministers. I’m just not a fan of the way we keep getting the news agenda hijacked with story after story presented as if it’s a scandal of watergate proportions when it’s not.
Sending sorme aggressively worded texts to a chief whipp is nowhere near of sufficient significance to justify the airtime it’s getting.

It hasn’t brought him down so now we see the guardian has found a mysterious former employee who claims historical bullying. If the latter is true then I wouldn’t have any sympathy if he were to lose his job. It’s vile and on a different level to sending texts to a hard nosed chief whipp who was chosen for the role because of her robust personality characteristics.

But we don’t know if it’s true. They’re very extreme and weird things to say. Slit your throat? Very bizarre and difficult to comprehend. I’d support an enquiry because defending one’s self against an anonymous source leaking to a left wing paper is impossible. But it is another seen before example when there’s an effort to bring someone down. If at first you don’t succeed drip drip again.

It's not like it was said one on one, which I agree would be difficult to prove. This was said in a room full of people at a meeting. I've been trying to think of how it could be misconstrued or misheard. Struggling so far.

 

[glasshalffull]

The last thing Sunak needs is for this to become yet another case of pulling the legs off a spider. Quick enquiry then get rid if it looks bad.

 

[Mark_GT]

It's not like it was said one on one, which I agree would be difficult to prove. This was said in a room full of people at a meeting. I've been trying to think of how it could be misconstrued or misheard. Struggling so far.

Old Rishi needs to improve his judgement fast. It's pretty clear the Bravernator was only given a job because he felt she might have otherwise helped corral the Boris vote over the 100 mark. As for the blonde bombshell stepping down as an act of integrity, do me a favour, he was done by deals for ministerial places and left with no way out. Hasn't stopped him sticking his oar in at COP though, slimy opportunist that he is.

 

[Malced]

Time will tell if its true. I think it’s premature and unfair to hang, draw and quarter based on one article. Let’s see how it develops. If it’s true it for me is worse than texts to a chief whipp. He doesn’t hold sway over a chief whipp and whilst he swore it wasn’t the worst a chief whipp will have seen. But jump out of a window and slit your throat said to people you have power over is beyond the pale. If true he should be sacked. But it’s a big if at the moment. We have one story from one anonymous source. The story includes mention of witnesses but mere mention of that doesn’t mean it’s true. So let’s see what unfolds.

 

[rockontommy]

Does Gavin Williamson not have a football message board which he can log into and air his near the knuckle views?

 

[1966_and_all_that]

Probably. Especially as I’m not determined to defend government ministers. I’m just not a fan of the way we keep getting the news agenda hijacked with story after story presented as if it’s a scandal of watergate proportions when it’s not.
Sending sorme aggressively worded texts to a chief whipp is nowhere near of sufficient significance to justify the airtime it’s getting.

It hasn’t brought him down so now we see the guardian has found a mysterious former employee who claims historical bullying. If the latter is true then I wouldn’t have any sympathy if he were to lose his job. It’s vile and on a different level to sending texts to a hard nosed chief whipp who was chosen for the role because of her robust personality characteristics.

But we don’t know if it’s true. They’re very extreme and weird things to say. Slit your throat? Very bizarre and difficult to comprehend. I’d support an enquiry because defending one’s self against an anonymous source leaking to a left wing paper is impossible. But it is another seen before example when there’s an effort to bring someone down. If at first you don’t succeed drip drip again.

I hear what you say but you should also note that some (if not a lot), of this briefing is coming from within the Conservative Party itself. It is not a happy ship.

 

[Walthamstow_Seasider]

Time will tell if its true. I think it’s premature and unfair to hang, draw and quarter based on one article. Let’s see how it develops. If it’s true it for me is worse than texts to a chief whipp. He doesn’t hold sway over a chief whipp and whilst he swore it wasn’t the worst a chief whipp will have seen. But jump out of a window and slit your throat said to people you have power over is beyond the pale. If true he should be sacked. But it’s a big if at the moment. We have one story from one anonymous source. The story includes mention of witnesses but mere mention of that doesn’t mean it’s true. So let’s see what unfolds.

What you seem to be ignoring is the former Chief Whip has made a complaint of "bullying and harassment" to the Conservative Party, do you expect the Tory's to dismiss it and sweep it under the carpet like you seem willing to do?

In a previous job you claim to have managed staff. If a woman had come to you to report bullying and harassment, how would you have dealt with it?

 

[EPM46]

....And of course your posting history clearly shows your opinions are just if not more so entrenched than Malceds. The surprise is that you managed to write a post with more than one line in it. Hypocrisy at it's best from the o/p who is clearly a one trick pony.

Haha! Along comes another RWNJ and a former "mushroom" with nothing at all to add to the discussion!

 

[Malced]

What you seem to be ignoring is the former Chief Whip has made a complaint of "bullying and harassment" to the Conservative Party, do you expect the Tory's to dismiss it and sweep it under the carpet like you seem willing to do?

In a previous job you claim to have managed staff. If a woman had come to you to report bullying and harassment, how would you have dealt with it?

I've at no time said a formal complaint should be ignored. I've said the texts he wrote were unpleasant. I wouldn't have written texts like that but they're not what I would consider a sacking offence. We will see what the outcome of the complaint is. I can only give my opinion on the severity and appropriate punishment. I didn't suggest anything should be swept under the carpet. That's your own fabrication. I've said its not something he should lose his job over and it's not worthy of the huge amount of media air time it's getting.

The latter reported comments if true are sackable offences in my opinion.

By the way, when i was a manager i would deal with all complaints equally. Regardless of gender. I'm not sure what your point is about gender unless you're inferring its worse for a man to write such messages to a woman as opposed to vice versa. I think you're showing your unconscious out-dated gender bias.