Wingers or wing backs?

voyeur

voyeur

Well-known member
It seems pretty clear that our squad is pretty well equipped for defenders midfielders and strikers but is confused in the wide positions. Did recruitment go wrong or were we just confused about what we wanted to do?

Should we adapt the system to play with wingers or make do til January?

I think I still feel that playing 532 without any recognised wing backs is a bit daft. Maybe we can just use wingers instead, like we did on Saturday. The back three with help from Norburn and Dougall can maybe cope. If the wide players also work hard and chip in.

So who are our best wide players, left and right?

Two from CJ Dale Dembele Lyons Thompson Gabriel Morgan Hubby

I honestly don't know. We need to work out how we want to use our wide players and then who best fits the bill. I don't see any automatic choices. CO and Dale did well v Reading but its one game against a young side.

Thoughts?
 
I’d run the same line up again if the midfield dogs are fit.
3-3-4 and let Dale and CJ play much further forward and put the pressure back on their full backs.

It really threw Reading on Saturday as their full backs had a torrid time, and their wide men were covered either by Kenny or Matty when we lost possession.
 
Chunkylad said:
I’d run the same line up again if the midfield dogs are fit.
3-3-4 and let Dale and CJ play much further forward and put the pressure back on their full backs.

It really threw Reading on Saturday as their full backs had a torrid time, and their wide men were covered either by Kenny or Matty when we lost possession.
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I agree with that. Are Dale and CJ the best two to play wide in that?
 
Chunkylad said:
I’d run the same line up again if the midfield dogs are fit.
3-3-4 and let Dale and CJ play much further forward and put the pressure back on their full backs.

It really threw Reading on Saturday as their full backs had a torrid time, and their wide men were covered either by Kenny or Matty when we lost possession.
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Midfield dogs is a good description, they did to Reading what so many teams did to us last season. It is one of a very few games where we bossed midfield
 
When everyone’s fit, we’ve got the players for both systems. Then, Critchley can switch systems to suit the opposition (as he does,regardless).
As it stands, with injuries, just play the system that puts players in their best position.
 
Chunkylad said:
I’d run the same line up again if the midfield dogs are fit.
3-3-4 and let Dale and CJ play much further forward and put the pressure back on their full backs.

It really threw Reading on Saturday as their full backs had a torrid time, and their wide men were covered either by Kenny or Matty when we lost possession.
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exactly this, good imho
 
A more aptly names thread might have been

"Whingers or Whinge Bags"

In response to the O/P, I suspect that the side we put out on Saturday might well struggle against the better sides (difficult to assess at the moment), although I do think that CJ has very much made the position of Wing Back his own and will be difficult to oust on the basis of recent form. He covers well and his pace is a massive asset, the run he made to pick up the ball that resulted in the first penalty on Saturday was sublime. I'm less convinced about Dale and suspect he might be a bit dubious if put under pressure to defend.

I'd be happy to stick with it for Saturday... If I could make one change, it might be to replace Dale with Lyons...
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
A more aptly names thread might have been

"Whingers or Whinge Bags"

In response to the O/P, I suspect that the side we put out on Saturday might well struggle against the better sides (difficult to assess at the moment), although I do think that CJ has very much made the position of Wing Back his own and will be difficult to oust on the basis of recent form. He covers well and his pace is a massive asset, the run he made to pick up the ball that resulted in the first penalty on Saturday was sublime. I'm less convinced about Dale and suspect he might be a bit dubious if put under pressure to defend.

I'd be happy to stick with it for Saturday... If I could make one change, it might be to replace Dale with Lyons...
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Lyons rather than Dembele? Defensively better I guess.

Has CJ completely nailed that position? He's either sublime or ridiculous, and not someone you can rely on as a consistent performer IMO.
 
Feel like a dinosaur writing this but it's 433 for me.
Lyons Pennington, Casey, Hubby.
And we'll need CC & JG as others will pick up knocks.
CJ offers two main things for me: He's an asset playing wide and up top with balls threaded into the final third for him to run onto. He also allows the CBs to get forward at corners as his pace provides centre circle cover as we attack the cross. As for contributing to open play as we build - forget it.
 
voyeur said:
Lyons rather than Dembele? Defensively better I guess.

Has CJ completely nailed that position? He's either sublime or ridiculous, and not someone you can rely on as a consistent performer IMO.
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I'm unsure as to exactly how Dembele will fit into the system as yet Voy... Arguably he may play a more central role and so I'd like to see how Critchley uses him (perhaps as a sub etc..) before just bringing him in. The introduction of Lyons over Dale was to make us defensively more solid yep...

Personally I really think an awful lot of the criticism aimed at CJ is unjustified.... He covers a remarkable amount of ground, he's energetic throughout, does a decent enough job defensively and in terms of winning back possession, he's incredibly quick and he's intelligent... He even managed to pull off a few tricks on Saturday, so clearly he's growing in confidence. Again, I disagree with the inconsistency thing too... He's had a couple of below par games this season (when the entire side was below par by the way)... For the most part he's been solid and in 2/3 games he's been unplayable. (Classic case of a Myth suddenly becoming fact, because enough people repeat it without actually thinking or cross referencing with reality IMHO)...
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I'm unsure as to exactly how Dembele will fit into the system as yet Voy... Arguably he may play a more central role and so I'd like to see how Critchley uses him (perhaps as a sub etc..) before just bringing him in. The introduction of Lyons over Dale was to make us defensively more solid yep...

Personally I really think an awful lot of the criticism aimed at CJ is unjustified.... He covers a remarkable amount of ground, he's energetic throughout, does a decent enough job defensively and in terms of winning back possession, he's incredibly quick and he's intelligent... He even managed to pull off a few tricks on Saturday, so clearly he's growing in confidence. Again, I disagree with the inconsistency thing too... He's had a couple of below par games this season (when the entire side was below par by the way)... For the most part he's been solid and in 2/3 games he's been unplayable. (Classic case of a Myth suddenly becoming fact, because enough people repeat it without actually thinking or cross referencing with reality IMHO)...
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I think Critch will use Dembele out wide. For a while at least. We'll see. Perhaps he'll be less worried if he's more central with 2 DMs behind him.

The CJ thing is not a myth. He's been dreadful at times, and it may be that he's a bit of a L1 flat track bully. His pace is a tremendous asset and his attitude is fantastic but he can be a liability at times. His season could go either way I think and I'm not sure which it will be.
 
voyeur said:
What about Dembele? Likely to be a regular out wide sooner or later, no?
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I’d have given him a go out left but after Saturday you’d put him back on the bench for now.
I have no idea if he has the concentration to track back or not until we see him in there. I’m guessing Critch doesn’t trust him to do that just yet or thinks his fitness level isn’t there yet? So for now he will be a late sub in the central attack position.
 
Chunkylad said:
I’d have given him a go out left but after Saturday you’d put him back on the bench for now.
I have no idea if he has the concentration to track back or not until we see him in there. I’m guessing Critch doesn’t trust him to do that just yet or thinks his fitness level isn’t there yet? So for now he will be a late sub in the central attack position.
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Dembo needs introducing bit by bit. I wouldn't want him hampered by having to be disciplined and that's the thing- much easier coming on and being told to go and make an impact than having pre-match instructions.

In answer to the OP. I think it depends on who we play. The WB's aren't really defenders and if they are pinned back it's a long afternoon with the ball coming back all the time. Against such a team you want defenders first who may be able to get forward (Husband LB for example).

But tbh any team should be able to adapt as required and formations are to a large extent very loose at best.
 
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voyeur said:
I think Critch will use Dembele out wide. For a while at least. We'll see. Perhaps he'll be less worried if he's more central with 2 DMs behind him.

The CJ thing is not a myth. He's been dreadful at times, and it may be that he's a bit of a L1 flat track bully. His pace is a tremendous asset and his attitude is fantastic but he can be a liability at times. His season could go either way I think and I'm not sure which it will be.
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Hmmm.. I don't want to make this about 1 player, but I think you're being unfair... He's had 2/3 performances this season already where he's been in contention for a MOM award. And is 'consistency' to such a high standard something we really get to see or necessarily expect in any winger? Consistency is more of a quality we're looking for in a CM position or CH... I mean Josh Bowler could be bloody inconsistent and a liability at times... I think CJ tends to get such a bad press purely because he has limited ball control in tight areas, so it's almost a very obvious and extremely apparent defect that gets noticed and results in the typical audible sigh. However what people tend to miss is the extremely consistent way he goes about his job in a remarkably efficient way for the most part... The simple fact that he has that pace as a potent weapon gives him an instant advantage (probably 3-4 yards over most opposite numbers) and that counts for a lot.. It forces them to make allowances for one thing..

I can understand that at Championship Level, we might need something a little bit more refined and extra, but I think that at L1 level CJ is up there with the very best... Does Gabriel offer something better? If so what is his advantage over CJ?

Dembele is a completely different prospect altogether... As I say, I really don't know where he fits at the minute...
 
It will be interesting when Gabriel comes back as to where he fits in. Player for player as a wing back he is far superior to CJ and he is very quick too. In theory he goes in but as has been said CJ does have his plus points also especially running forward. I also think Gabriel could do a very good job on the right side of the back 3 too but again Pennington is playing pretty well there.
Lyons again player for player as a wing back should come straight in at LWB but i have to say i was really really impressed with Dale playing there and Critch might look at it as wanting two wingers rather than wbs.
Certainly makes it competitive .
Dembele absolutely cant be trusted to do defensive work so he wont play as a wb. Maybe as a 10 or a second striker
 
Critchknows said:
It will be interesting when Gabriel comes back as to where he fits in. Player for player as a wing back he is far superior to CJ and he is very quick too. In theory he goes in but as has been said CJ does have his plus points also especially running forward. I also think Gabriel could do a very good job on the right side of the back 3 too but again Pennington is playing pretty well there.
Lyons again player for player as a wing back should come straight in at LWB but i have to say i was really really impressed with Dale playing there and Critch might look at it as wanting two wingers rather than wbs.
Certainly makes it competitive .
Dembele absolutely cant be trusted to do defensive work so he wont play as a wb. Maybe as a 10 or a second striker
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I’m interested in this…

What specifically makes Gabriel a ‘far superior’ wing back to CJ?

I mean he’s averaged 1 assist per season so far… typically 20-30 games played.

CJ this season has two assists in 8 games already.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I’m interested in this…

What specifically makes Gabriel a ‘far superior’ wing back to CJ?

I mean he’s averaged 1 assist per season so far… typically 20-30 games played.

CJ this season has two assists in 8 games already.
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As in the defensive part. Jordy G is a better defender than CJ with the oppo player in front of him around the box.

The way I see it in the future is Lyons as RWB/RB and Jordy G further up the pitch. They'd be lethal together.

I know people say AL can be the LWB, but he is a RB by trade and he should be allowed to flourish and settle in his best position.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Hmmm.. I don't want to make this about 1 player, but I think you're being unfair... He's had 2/3 performances this season already where he's been in contention for a MOM award. And is 'consistency' to such a high standard something we really get to see or necessarily expect in any winger? Consistency is more of a quality we're looking for in a CM position or CH... I mean Josh Bowler could be bloody inconsistent and a liability at times... I think CJ tends to get such a bad press purely because he has limited ball control in tight areas, so it's almost a very obvious and extremely apparent defect that gets noticed and results in the typical audible sigh. However what people tend to miss is the extremely consistent way he goes about his job in a remarkably efficient way for the most part... The simple fact that he has that pace as a potent weapon gives him an instant advantage (probably 3-4 yards over most opposite numbers) and that counts for a lot.. It forces them to make allowances for one thing..

I can understand that at Championship Level, we might need something a little bit more refined and extra, but I think that at L1 level CJ is up there with the very best... Does Gabriel offer something better? If so what is his advantage over CJ?

Dembele is a completely different prospect altogether... As I say, I really don't know where he fits at the minute...
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Some fair comments. The Bowler comparison is good. Bowler is a much better player though IMO.

But. Such a high standard? Up there with the very best? Let's not get carried away.

I think playing Dembele wide is no more of a risk than Bowler and that worked fine for the most part. But introduce him gradually if necessary.

CJ Dembele Lyons Dale Gabriel are all rotational options. I'd include Morgan too, I think he may possibly prove handy out wide. He can deliver a ball and link up with midfield and probably half decent defensively.
 
fcblackpool said:
As in the defensive part. Jordy G is a better defender than CJ with the oppo player in front of him around the box.

The way I see it in the future is Lyons as RWB/RB and Jordy G further up the pitch. They'd be lethal together.

I know people say AL can be the LWB, but he is a RB by trade and he should be allowed to flourish and settle in his best position.
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Oh there’s no doubt he’s a better defender and if we were talking about a fullback in a 4 then there’d be no contest, but we’re not.

I do think he’ll be just fine as a wing-back / full back and if needs must, one of the central three. However I don’t see him as a shoe in to oust CJ and suspect it will be a case of horses for courses as the tinker-man tinkers along.

Anyway… not the worst problem to have once they’re all in contention.
voyeur said:
Some fair comments. The Bowler comparison is good. Bowler is a much better player though IMO.

But. Such a high standard? Up there with the very best? Let's not get carried away.

I think playing Dembele wide is no more of a risk than Bowler and that worked fine for the most part. But introduce him gradually if necessary.

CJ Dembele Lyons Dale Gabriel are all rotational options. I'd include Morgan too, I think he may possibly prove handy out wide. He can deliver a ball and link up with midfield and probably half decent defensively.
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Agree Bowler is a far better player, but we are talking a lower level now. I genuinely think CJ is up there at this level Voy and he did the business last time around for us.

Of course I’m also trying to offer a counter-balance, because the criticism goes way too far.

I don’t perceive Dembele as a risk, I’ve just not seen enough of him to understand how he might best fit…. Im keen to see him get game time 👍
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Oh there’s no doubt he’s a better defender and if we were talking about a fullback in a 4 then there’d be no contest, but we’re not.

I do think he’ll be just fine as a wing-back / full back and if needs must, one of the central three. However I don’t see him as a shoe in to oust CJ and suspect it will be a case of horses for courses as the tinker-man tinkers along.

Anyway… not the worst problem to have once they’re all in contention.

Agree Bowler is a far better player, but we are talking a lower level now. I genuinely think CJ is up there at this level Voy and he did the business last time around for us.

Of course I’m also trying to offer a counter-balance, because the criticism goes way too far.

I don’t perceive Dembele as a risk, I’ve just not seen enough of him to understand how he might best fit…. Im keen to see him get game time 👍
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Far too much criticism is right. 👍
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Oh there’s no doubt he’s a better defender and if we were talking about a fullback in a 4 then there’d be no contest, but we’re not.

I do think he’ll be just fine as a wing-back / full back and if needs must, one of the central three. However I don’t see him as a shoe in to oust CJ and suspect it will be a case of horses for courses as the tinker-man tinkers along.

Anyway… not the worst problem to have once they’re all in contention.

Agree Bowler is a far better player, but we are talking a lower level now. I genuinely think CJ is up there at this level Voy and he did the business last time around for us.

Of course I’m also trying to offer a counter-balance, because the criticism goes way too far.

I don’t perceive Dembele as a risk, I’ve just not seen enough of him to understand how he might best fit…. Im keen to see him get game time 👍
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A WB will be called on to defend and do it competently and CJ is no defender with the player in front.

Obviously as we've said it's a trade off. But the bottom line is CJ is a winger, left winger and that's where he should play as and when the game allows. We have enough RB/RWB's of quality when all available.
 
CJ was excellent on Saturday, he got the penalty and we would have had another when he was pulled down, but of course the ball went to Rhodes who scored. His pace is exceptional, especially in this division.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I’m interested in this…

What specifically makes Gabriel a ‘far superior’ wing back to CJ?

I mean he’s averaged 1 assist per season so far… typically 20-30 games played.

CJ this season has two assists in 8 games already.
Click to expand...
I'd say CJ had two assists last Saturday, with the penalty won, and winning another only for the ball to fall to Rhodes to score. If that doesn't go in, the ref gives a penalty
 
Players that can do a job at wing back, Lyons, Gabriel, Hamilton, Husband, Thompson, Dale.

Player that can maybe do a job there, Dembele.

Player that should definitely never, ever be used as a wing back, Connolly.
 
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