Zian Flemming

[HighfieldSeasider]

24 year old Dutch striker signing for Burnley for a reported £18m from Millwall who signed him last summer for £1.7m. Some business that for Waaaallllll. He's the fella who scored the goal that confirmed our relegation.

The sort of transfer model we're aiming for, surely if we receive offers for Yates and Lyons around 10x what we paid for them it's simply on a smaller scale.

 

[seasideone]

Did he write the novels about English spies being defeated by a Russian called Zilch Zilch Zeven?

 

[Seaseaseasider]

It is the model that we need to get back to. Last season was a mess in terms of recruitment. They moved away from the model of bringing in young talented players, coaching them and selling on. That is a sustainable strategy and can let you reinvest for the future.

Appleton came in as someone who can get loans. That's alright if it compliments the previous strategy, but it seemed to replace it. That leaves you with nobody to sell on if they do well and having to start all over each summer. Another reason why the Appleton appointment was a shocking one.

 

[BigHandsOliverKahn]

Flemming eck.

 

[Victorsponge]

As long as the money is used to replace players sold and doesn't just disappear into the coffers.

 

[Altyseasider]

This is why we need to hold out for good money for Yates. Always seems like other clubs sell for big money but we get cheeky offers for our players. Can you ever imagine us getting 18 mill for a player

 

[Murciaseasider]

Yates is I'm afraid worth nowhere near that figure. Yes he can score goals in the Championship, but a fair proportion of those were penalties. Agree though that we hold out for good money, and its a matter of opinion what figure that is. The Club may settle for somewhere in the region of £3.5m to £4m.

 

[tangysider]

Yates is I'm afraid worth nowhere near that figure. Yes he can score goals in the Championship, but a fair proportion of those were penalties. Agree though that we hold out for good money, and its a matter of opinion what figure that is. The Club may settle for somewhere in the region of £3.5m to £4m.

In the silly money season worth as much as clubs want to pay. Having said that he could be crucial to a promotion push and that would be between 8 to 10 million?
Maybe keep him till Jan and review and promise he would be allowed to leave if no chance of promotion.
We need to review all those out of contract next summer as they are allowed to talk to other clubs in Jan, some will be OK in Championship if we get there or have resale value

 

[HighfieldSeasider]

In the silly money season worth as much as clubs want to pay. Having said that he could be crucial to a promotion push and that would be between 8 to 10 million?
Maybe keep him till Jan and review and promise he would be allowed to leave if no chance of promotion.
We need to review all those out of contract next summer as they are allowed to talk to other clubs in Jan, some will be OK in Championship if we get there or have resale value

I'd go to him with a gentleman's agreement, 'we will let you go in January if we're not in the promotion picture and an offer of X amount comes in and to top up your wages we will pay you a bonus of £x if we get promoted and £x if you score 20+ goals, £x if you score 25+ goals'. Give him a proper incentive to stay and to fire us to promotion. Then at the end of the season we'll see where we stand.

 

[fcblackpool]

It is the model that we need to get back to. Last season was a mess in terms of recruitment. They moved away from the model of bringing in young talented players, coaching them and selling on. That is a sustainable strategy and can let you reinvest for the future.

Appleton came in as someone who can get loans. That's alright if it compliments the previous strategy, but it seemed to replace it. That leaves you with nobody to sell on if they do well and having to start all over each summer. Another reason why the Appleton appointment was a shocking one.

The problem is with the model is it can become a broken chain. When you sign Dale's Kirks (fee agreed for 500k) and Wrights then you can't sell on for profit or even get rid. They are on your paybooks and potentially squad numbers.

What the sale of Flemming does show is if you are going to make money you have to spend decent in the right position like striker or AM. So if Jerry does go, realistically we'd need to spend half the money (could be 2m) in order to get goals from the off and nurture for good profit.

 

[Seaseaseasider]

The problem is with the model is it can become a broken chain. When you sign Dale's Kirks (fee agreed for 500k) and Wrights then you can't sell on for profit or even get rid. They are on your paybooks and potentially squad numbers.

What the sale of Flemming does show is if you are going to make money you have to spend decent in the right position like striker or AM. So if Jerry does go, realistically we'd need to spend half the money (could be 2m) in order to get goals from the off and nurture for good profit.

It comes down to recruiting well and being prepared to be that bridging club.

Brighton bring in players using data from across the world and know that the majority are going to be good. The big boys in the Premier League then pay them a whole host more after they have shown that. Cucurella, MacAllister and Caicedo are good examples of this.

You don't always have to invest a lot. Many Premier League clubs release players every year that would be more than good enough for the Championship. We did that well with Bowler and Grimshaw. We could look to repeat that and find some gems from abroad too. Some obviously will require investment though.

 

[fcblackpool]

It comes down to recruiting well and being prepared to be that bridging club.

Brighton bring in players using data from across the world and know that the majority are going to be good. The big boys in the Premier League then pay them a whole host more after they have shown that. Cucurella, MacAllister and Caicedo are good examples of this.

You don't always have to invest a lot. Many Premier League clubs release players every year that would be more than good enough for the Championship. We did that well with Bowler and Grimshaw. We could look to repeat that and find some gems from abroad too. Some obviously will require investment though.

In a key position like JY replacement, we aren't looking at huge worldwide databases, we're looking at higher league players who aren't breaking through or lower league players who are scoring. I wonder if, for example, we'd bid 1.5m for Simms on the back of the sale of X whether we would have signed him on a perm rather than on loan? Probably not in that case but you get my drift.

I don't think we can afford not to pay v good money for a replacement for JY, whereas a replacement for Marv or Grimmy would be cheap(er) and probably less profitable for selling on. And that's the key for the model to gain momentum.

 

[LA1 Seasider]

Unfortunately in my lifetime whenever we sign a player, even if we pay a fee, the player comes to us usually for a good reason - and that’s because there’s usually a question mark over their ability or suitability to play for other clubs at the same level - that may be injury, personality, general athletic ability or even just footballing ability. That’s why we don’t tend to get the value of sell on others do at the same level - as to an extent some of those question marks remain. Since SS came in it’s changed somewhat - particularly in League 1 - where we’re not quite the last at the table but instead we’re a good option with a top 6 budget - but ultimately we still and probably will always be shopping in a slightly different market whereby we can get value. Sometimes those value buys do pay off though - we’ve got to build on those and position ourselves further up the food chain down the line.

 

[Seaseaseasider]

In a key position like JY replacement, we aren't looking at huge worldwide databases, we're looking at higher league players who aren't breaking through or lower league players who are scoring. I wonder if, for example, we'd bid 1.5m for Simms on the back of the sale of X whether we would have signed him on a perm rather than on loan? Probably not in that case but you get my drift.

I don't think we can afford not to pay v good money for a replacement for JY, whereas a replacement for Marv or Grimmy would be cheap(er) and probably less profitable for selling on. And that's the key for the model to gain momentum.

Paying a certain amount for a player doesn't always directly correlate to how good they will be. We got Bowler for free and spent money on Wright and Thompson.

Of course we won't have quite the database that Brighton have, but we're also not after Premier League standard players. We could replicate it on a smaller scale in order to find gems from lower leagues or academies.

 

[Meliora]

At the moment we're perhaps a championship/league 1 yo-yo side. Needs careful investment in a few players (5 perhaps) this season to get us up and stay there for the next level of investment to create a mid table side, fundable with our turnover at that level. From there we need to see what it might take for the next step. The game is in flux with the threat of a regulator hanging over the premiership clubs unless they agree to end parachute payments and give more money to efl sides. We need to see where the dust settles on that before a truly long term strategy can be developed.

 

[Sven]

I don't normally get hung up on players but I think Jerry is the difference between a title winning team and one that is aiming for the top six.

 

[koudo]

Yates is I'm afraid worth nowhere near that figure. Yes he can score goals in the Championship, but a fair proportion of those were penalties. Agree though that we hold out for good money, and its a matter of opinion what figure that is. The Club may settle for somewhere in the region of £3.5m to £4m.

Only 3 were pens from his 14 goals, flemming was one Pen from his 14 goals.

 

[Murciaseasider]

Only 3 were pens from his 14 goals, flemming was one Pen from his 14 goals.

Really? I thought it was at least double that. Still don't think we'd get more than £4m though. Would be great if we could hang onto him. Given the incomings so far the squad is looking very strong at L1 level.

 

[fcblackpool]

Paying a certain amount for a player doesn't always directly correlate to how good they will be. We got Bowler for free and spent money on Wright and Thompson.

Of course we won't have quite the database that Brighton have, but we're also not after Premier League standard players. We could replicate it on a smaller scale in order to find gems from lower leagues or academies.

Of course, that's why you have to up the spending. The difference between a free and a 250k may only be the contractual state rather than quality. But generally the more you spend the better you're buying.

 

[tarantula]

It is the model that we need to get back to. Last season was a mess in terms of recruitment. They moved away from the model of bringing in young talented players, coaching them and selling on. That is a sustainable strategy and can let you reinvest for the future.

Appleton came in as someone who can get loans. That's alright if it compliments the previous strategy, but it seemed to replace it. That leaves you with nobody to sell on if they do well and having to start all over each summer. Another reason why the Appleton appointment was a shocking one.

Sorry 2 b a bore, but: '... complements ... '

 

[Fylde Seasider]

Yates is I'm afraid worth nowhere near that figure. Yes he can score goals in the Championship, but a fair proportion of those were penalties. Agree though that we hold out for good money, and its a matter of opinion what figure that is. The Club may settle for somewhere in the region of £3.5m to £4m.

And Ronaldo, Messi and Kane get a lot of their goals from penalties.

 

[Fylde Seasider]

Unfortunately in my lifetime whenever we sign a player, even if we pay a fee, the player comes to us usually for a good reason - and that’s because there’s usually a question mark over their ability or suitability to play for other clubs at the same level - that may be injury, personality, general athletic ability or even just footballing ability. That’s why we don’t tend to get the value of sell on others do at the same level - as to an extent some of those question marks remain. Since SS came in it’s changed somewhat - particularly in League 1 - where we’re not quite the last at the table but instead we’re a good option with a top 6 budget - but ultimately we still and probably will always be shopping in a slightly different market whereby we can get value. Sometimes those value buys do pay off though - we’ve got to build on those and position ourselves further up the food chain down the line.

Except for Andy Watson who we payed £30k for. And outgoing Brett who we picked up for £50k and sold for £1.75m, Charlie Adam £500k and sold for £8.5m, Matt Phillips for £325k and sold for £6m. Or home grown talent such as Paul Stewart and Trevor Sinclair.

I think the problem always has been we have always been a selling club. We never buy for top half of the table prices and even physios, groundsmen and club secretaries have left for bigger money.

 

[LA1 Seasider]

Except for Andy Watson who we payed £30k for. And outgoing Brett who we picked up for £50k and sold for £1.75m, Charlie Adam £500k and sold for £8.5m, Matt Phillips for £325k and sold for £6m. Or home grown talent such as Paul Stewart and Trevor Sinclair.

I think the problem always has been we have always been a selling club. We never buy for top half of the table prices and even physios, groundsmen and club secretaries have left for bigger money.

They’re the exception to the rule though.. and let’s be honest £8.5 for Adam for a club like Liverpool even a decade ago was an absolute steal. £6 million for Matt Phillips was pretty cheap too.

 

[PdxTangerine]

God, I forgot about the fees for Phillips, Adam etc. On top of the 90m , yet we were back in league 2 within what 6 years?, absolutely criminal (literally).