Government gambling with people’s lives

But you knew, before the vaccine roleout that it would be a load of Bollocks. Too much from this government is Politically motivated rather than taking into account of the health of the Nation. (have they ever?) Delays actually doing something when the virus was killing people in Italy. Boris missing Cobra meetings to obviously watch rugby or go on outings with miss Nut Nuts. Did you really expect anything else?
 
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I think they know something that we yet don't which is really worrying them into making this decision.

like the new straint potentially being up-to 40% more deadly for the over 60's group. If they know that then they know the stats for over 80's and young adults. Is there going to be some really bad news over the coming weeks?

Maybe it is just our bumbling government making one last monumental fuck up!
 
...........and if the Government decided to prioritise second vaccinations over giving people some hope of at least receiving the first jab, then that would wrong as well.
There are reports every single day of mindless morons organising illegal raves which are attended bu 100’s of party goers, but it’s not their fault the virus is spreading like wildfire is is?
I love how Cat in a Hat and Reactivist (more appropriate) come on here and constantly blame the Government and no condemnation whatsoever for the 1,000’s of people who totally ignore the rules and advice.
 
...........and if the Government decided to prioritise second vaccinations over giving people some hope of at least receiving the first jab, then that would wrong as well.
There are reports every single day of mindless morons organising illegal raves which are attended bu 100’s of party goers, but it’s not their fault the virus is spreading like wildfire is is?
I love how Cat in a Hat and Reactivist (more appropriate) come on here and constantly blame the Government and no condemnation whatsoever for the 1,000’s of people who totally ignore the rules and advice.
I noticed there was very little condemnation from said posters when there were certain protests going on which were breaking all the rules. I'd better not say which protests as I'll no doubt be labelled a racist.
 
You're correct it is a gamble. You have to assume they've taken advice on it. But the advice coming out is so conflicting.
And maybe the different vaccines react in different ways? Pfizer seem adamant that the follow up needs to be within 3-4 weeks. Too late already if that's the case, for those who got their jab in early December.
 
You're correct it is a gamble. You have to assume they've taken advice on it. But the advice coming out is so conflicting.
Exactly. It would also have been a gamble to leave so many millions unprotected too. It's a lose/lose situation and the answer is we'll probably never accurately know which was the better of the two options simply because people will still die..
 
I've been waiting for the detractors to start.... They can't attack the amount of vaccine given... As this is better than most of the world so they start on the method.....
 
I think that the strategy is to get as many people vaccinated as quickly as possible with the anticipated effect of getting the death rate down and clearing our hospitals. It's not either / or, people can be revaccinated later on if need be.
I am sure that the government have thought this through and if more evidence comes to light they may change their policy as they have done several times before.
This worry only applies to the Pfizer jab in any case which the minority are having, the delay is seen to be OK for the Oxford jab.
We have to let them get on with things, we can have the public enquiry later, I'm not against this approach ATM
 
And maybe the different vaccines react in different ways? Pfizer seem adamant that the follow up needs to be within 3-4 weeks. Too late already if that's the case, for those who got their jab in early December.
Had my jab on Friday and was asked at reception if it was my first or second jab which suggests that those who where vaccinated early were given a second appointment within the 3/4 week period.
 
Had my jab on Friday and was asked at reception if it was my first or second jab which suggests that those who where vaccinated early were given a second appointment within the 3/4 week period.
My Dad is 90, got his first jab and an appointment for 3 weeks later, but that was later rescinded and put back to 12 weeks.
 
My wife had hers 2 weeks ago... She is booked in to have her second after 8 weeks.... She is a health worker and is more than happy to follow the advice given...just to add... NO concerns at all.
 
I've been waiting for the detractors to start.... They can't attack the amount of vaccine given... As this is better than most of the world so they start on the method.....
But it's not about the politics.....honest. 😉 But you can bet your bottom dollar that it will be in the not too distant future.
 
The one trick pony's are out today and I've had enough of them.....blinkered entrenched anti Tory views... Just so you know I've never voted Tory in my life but I am able to look and consider all sides and form a balanced view on any given subject.... I can't stand people who do not have that ability... And if you add in some of the total Sh*t regarding the elderly and dying.... Bell ends.
 
But it's not about the politics.....honest. 😉 But you can bet your bottom dollar that it will be in the not too distant future.
It's a political decision to delay the second jab, based on the idea that it will get more people some element of protection, so I can understand it to some extent.

However, the manufacturers (Pfizer) say it's a wrong decision. You'd think they'd be consulted, but that doesn't appear to be the case. As I have also said, maybe the different jabs should be treated differently, and maybe the Astra-Zenica delay might be appropriate.

If it turns out that it was the wrong call, that political decision will need to be called out, and quite rightly. That's nothing to do with Tory bashing, and everything to do with a Government endangering life. Surely even you can see that?

Obviously, we all hope it doesn't come to that, especially when we have relatives directly impacted by this decision.
 
I've been waiting for the detractors to start.... They can't attack the amount of vaccine given... As this is better than most of the world so they start on the method.....
I would think following the manufacturer's instructions for the vaccine would be the right thing to do and Pfizer do not recommend extending the period beyond 4 weeks because they can not guarantee it's efficacy beyond that period.
 
I would think following the manufacturer's instructions for the vaccine would be the right thing to do and Pfizer do not recommend extending the period beyond 4 weeks because they can not guarantee it's efficacy beyond that period.
Half a million have already had 2nd dose... Its a medical dilemma do you do as we are doing 1 jab quickly or do you do 2 jabs slowly.... Hopefully with increased capacity we can do both.
 
It's a political decision to delay the second jab, based on the idea that it will get more people some element of protection, so I can understand it to some extent.

However, the manufacturers (Pfizer) say it's a wrong decision. You'd think they'd be consulted, but that doesn't appear to be the case. As I have also said, maybe the different jabs should be treated differently, and maybe the Astra-Zenica delay might be appropriate.

If it turns out that it was the wrong call, that political decision will need to be called out, and quite rightly. That's nothing to do with Tory bashing, and everything to do with a Government endangering life. Surely even you can see that?

Obviously, we all hope it doesn't come to that, especially when we have relatives directly impacted by this decision.
Rightly or wrongly the manufacturers will always want to cover their own backs by saying that. And that's not a criticism, it's just what you'd expect them to say.
 
Reading literally, Blair’s idea was to use just January’s available doses intended for 2nds as 1st doses. Not those in February and onwards. For someone first jabbed in mid-December that would have meant a 6-week interval which is stretching Pfizer’s advice but appears reasonable.

The Government is pushing the 2nd jab out into at least March and perhaps April or later. It’s not Blair’s fault that he suggested giving an inch and Bozo has taken a mile. Blair ain’t in charge now.
 
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Rightly or wrongly the manufacturers will always want to cover their own backs by saying that. And that's not a criticism, it's just what you'd expect them to say.
Astra Zeneca aren’t saying that though. The fact is Pfizer have no evidence that the 2nd jab is effective after a three week gap whereas AZ do.
 
Rightly or wrongly the manufacturers will always want to cover their own backs by saying that. And that's not a criticism, it's just what you'd expect them to say.
They are responsible for their product and set the parameters of use, based on their research. As such, surely we should be taking greater account of what they say?

It's a case of invalidating a warranty if you dont follow the guidelines in it really.

Anyway, what's done is done.
 
I don’t support the Torys but given the situation & never mind Tony Blair, some eminent medics have agreed that this is worth the gamble. You either trust their judgment or you don’t. If it backfires we’ll have to vaccinate again at the recommended intervals. I believe it’s been done for the right reasons. Hopefully it will save a few lives, rather than cost some.
 
It's not the easy option for the govt. That would be to stick to the original plan. It's a gamble, but if your grandma was going to get the jab two months early, you'd back it.

Up to now, with 7 million vaccinations given and as many as France every three days so we don't have much to complain about.
 
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They are responsible for their product and set the parameters of use, based on their research. As such, surely we should be taking greater account of what they say?

It's a case of invalidating a warranty if you dont follow the guidelines in it really.

Anyway, what's done is done.
Wizz...i don't know the figures but I hope that we can use millions more of our own Oxford AZ vaccine than the others... Much easier to use... Can spread the 2 doses apart... But also its cheaper.. Only 3 quid a pop.
 
The one trick pony's are out today and I've had enough of them.....blinkered entrenched anti Tory views... Just so you know I've never voted Tory in my life but I am able to look and consider all sides and form a balanced view on any given subject.... I can't stand people who do not have that ability... And if you add in some of the total Sh*t regarding the elderly and dying.... Bell ends.
I have to say a lot of posters on here are of the same ilk.
Unfortunately there will always be those who demonstrate blinkered Philistine pig ignorance and theirs is the only opinion that matters.
I am very surprised that Cat in the Hat hasn’t joined in with his biased political rhetoric.
Maybe he is the queue for his vaccine 😂
 
I have to say a lot of posters on here are of the same ilk.
Unfortunately there will always be those who demonstrate blinkered Philistine pig ignorance and theirs is the only opinion that matters.
I am very surprised that Cat in the Hat hasn’t joined in with his biased political rhetoric.
Maybe he is the queue for his vaccine 😂
So you can confirm absolutely that there is no risk to extending the gap between vaccine jabs? Maybe you could share that expertise?
 
I don’t support the Torys but given the situation & never mind Tony Blair, some eminent medics have agreed that this is worth the gamble. You either trust their judgment or you don’t. If it backfires we’ll have to vaccinate again at the recommended intervals. I believe it’s been done for the right reasons. Hopefully it will save a few lives, rather than cost some.
I dont disagree but backfiring will cost thousands of lives in the most vulnerable categories.
 
So you can confirm absolutely that there is no risk to extending the gap between vaccine jabs? Maybe you could share that expertise?
The effects of extending the time between jabs is unknown because no-one has tried it yet
I am guessing that modelling has been done based on reasonable assumptions and we have chosen the policy that in the models leads to the fewest deaths and / or hospitalisations.
If the assumptions used or the models used are shown to be wrong then I am sure that we will change tack.
In any case, it's not either / or because people can be vaccinated with different vaccines more than once if necessary.
Someone has to make the decisions and on this one I am sure that the decision has been made in good faith.
 
I dont disagree but backfiring will cost thousands of lives in the most vulnerable categories.
I think that this is unlikely.
People in this age group will have some protection from one vaccination, maybe more for some people than others. The level of protection is currently unknown.
The R rate is decreasing so they will be less likely to come into contact with the virus in future weeks and months, especially as more people get vaccinated (it was reported that the OU jab gives immunity to some) and more people recover from the disease (more herd immunity).
If the policy turns out to be the wrong choice then we have plenty of capacity to vaccinate people again (we have ordered something like 300m doses of all the vaccines).
Let's just see how this pans out
My mum had the OU jab anyway, the Pfizer one has been given to 4 people in my family who work in the health service
 
I think that this is unlikely.
People in this age group will have some protection from one vaccination, maybe more for some people than others. The level of protection is currently unknown.
The R rate is decreasing so they will be less likely to come into contact with the virus in future weeks and months, especially as more people get vaccinated (it was reported that the OU jab gives immunity to some) and more people recover from the disease (more herd immunity).
If the policy turns out to be the wrong choice then we have plenty of capacity to vaccinate people again (we have ordered something like 300m doses of all the vaccines).
Let's just see how this pans out
My mum had the OU jab anyway, the Pfizer one has been given to 4 people in my family who work in the health service
Yes, as I've said all along, I hope it turns out well. That's all we can do. My Dad had the Pfizer.
 
It's not the easy option for the govt. That would be to stick to the original plan. It's a gamble, but if your grandma was going to get the jab two months early, you'd back it.

Up to now, with 7 million vaccinations given we don't have much to complain about.
True. And I doubt there's anyone on here who would forego their first jab in order that some-one else could have their second within the supposed guidelines. People are saying it's not political but of course it is. They are already sharpening the knife.
 
True. And I doubt there's anyone on here who would forego their first jab in order that some-one else could have their second within the supposed guidelines. People are saying it's not political but of course it is. They are already sharpening the knife.
Everything in life is political. You taking a contrary view is political.
 
This Government never backtracks...
Again sniping for snipings sake. If you make a decision in good faith but that later turns out to be the wrong one, then isn't it reasonable to think you should backtrack or do a u-turn. You never driven somewhere and taken the wrong turning?
 
True. And I doubt there's anyone on here who would forego their first jab in order that some-one else could have their second within the supposed guidelines. People are saying it's not political but of course it is. They are already sharpening the knife.
And you are already using the knife.
Why is it that every post that you make contains a dig at somebody else who uses this board?
If the government makes a mistake then people surely have a right to point that out.
I think that everyone accepts that these are difficult decisions and I am hoping that the government does have sound scientific reasons for defying conventional wisdom on this. If they don't, then they actually deserve criticism and more.
 
Just want to ask a question.....IF things go well with the vaccine rollout and we are weeks/months ahead of other countries who have been slow or have low uptake.....does it follow that our death rates ( which are grim) stop or go to just a trickle while the other countries death figures will carry on growing each day until they catch up ? if so final counts for all countries will not be true for some months.....i just want there to be an end to this and we can all move on.
 
And you are already using the knife.
Why is it that every post that you make contains a dig at somebody else who uses this board?
If the government makes a mistake then people surely have a right to point that out.
I think that everyone accepts that these are difficult decisions and I am hoping that the government does have sound scientific reasons for defying conventional wisdom on this. If they don't, then they actually deserve criticism and more.
Why do you make things up? Why do you tell blatant lies? Go and read many of my football posts. Are they all having a dig at somebody else.
There's more to this board than just politics you know.
Maybe your blinkers need removing.
 
Just want to ask a question.....IF things go well with the vaccine rollout and we are weeks/months ahead of other countries who have been slow or have low uptake.....does it follow that our death rates ( which are grim) stop or go to just a trickle while the other countries death figures will carry on growing each day until they catch up ? if so final counts for all countries will not be true until for some months.....i just want there to be an end to this and we can all move on.
I think we should see deaths starting to drop off in the next few weeks and markedly around the beginning of March
If we don't then we have major problem
The rest of Europe is probably going to have a bad time if this Kent strain spreads there which it probably will.
 
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