Napoleon mark 2 at it again.

The greatest French president was Charles De Gaulle. He did his best to keep us out of the EEC. “ NON!”
 
This morning on Radio 4, it has been reported that Boris asked Macron how he would feel if he couldn't transport Toulouse sausages from there to Paris.
His reply, evidently was, 'that is totally different it is the same country.' Obviously, he came bottom of the class in geography and history.
So it appears that he must consider England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland as not being part of the same country, the UK, it beggars belief, and God help us if the question of another plebiscite on Scottish Independence is asked for. Who will be in the front row of backers for the vote? 🙄
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Just to recap.

That would have been in breach of the GFA.

Which meant a border in the Irish Sea or “something else” were the only options.

Theresa May took the position that no British PM could agree to an internal border within the U.K. - hence her “something else” ie the backstop. Boris and others sabotaged that and then agreed to the one thing that no British PM could ever agree to - an internal border within the U.K.

We’re now in a mess because Boris was desperate to “Get Brexit Done” and caved in to the EU thinking he could then wriggle his way out of it. We’re now in the wriggling stage.

Puff, pant and wave the flag as much as you like…but that’s what happened and this is where we are at.

The choices now are:

1. Surrender to the EU once again over the NI Protocol and pretend it’s a big victory. OR.
2. Take on the EU in a trade war and wave cheerio to a trade deal with the USA.

I suspect we’ll end up with 1 accompanied by lots of noise, bells and whistles in an attempt to hide what’s actually happening.
Click to expand...

Them's the facts.
 
Curryman said:
This morning on Radio 4, it has been reported that Boris asked Macron how he would feel if he couldn't transport Toulouse sausages from there to Paris.
His reply, evidently was, 'that is totally different it is the same country.' Obviously, he came bottom of the class in geography and history.
So it appears that he must consider England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland as not being part of the same country, the UK, it beggars belief, and God help us if the question of another plebiscite on Scottish Independence is asked for. Who will be in the front row of backers for the vote? 🙄
Click to expand...

I too thought that was quite incredible. Macron must be a really dim cove if he thinks that. But he’s not been a proper politician for long.

However... we only have Bozo’s word for that and he’s not above manipulation of the truth. There is also the language barrier to take into account.

But, on the whole... I think Macron is a total jerk trying to upset every aspect of the UK-EU relationship purely out of historical Gallic spite towards us. The little fecker deserves more than a slap to the face.
 
Curryman said:
This morning on Radio 4, it has been reported that Boris asked Macron how he would feel if he couldn't transport Toulouse sausages from there to Paris.
His reply, evidently was, 'that is totally different it is the same country.' Obviously, he came bottom of the class in geography and history.
So it appears that he must consider England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland as not being part of the same country, the UK, it beggars belief, and God help us if the question of another plebiscite on Scottish Independence is asked for. Who will be in the front row of backers for the vote? 🙄
Click to expand...
Haha you'll believe anything the tory propaganda machine tells you. I'll tell you who did come bottom of the class, the people who undermined May's backstop, then agreed and signed a worse deal and the people who still swallow the subsequent horse shit.
 
Shandypants said:
Haha you'll believe anything the tory propaganda machine tells you. I'll tell you who did come bottom of the class, the people who undermined May's backstop, then agreed and signed a worse deal and the people who still swallow the subsequent horse shit.
Click to expand...
Ok then, the Guardian, who have also reported it, must now be a right-wing rag!
 
Curryman said:
Ok then, the Guardian, who have also reported it, must now be a right-wing rag!
Click to expand...
Did the guardian tell everyone there wouldn't be border checks, win an election with "oven ready deal" and sign the deal. Why don't brexiteers ever take responsibility rather than blame remainers, Macron etc...its time for you to accept it.
There were plenty of warnings that this was going to be a major problem, May's backstop was testament to that but it was all framed as project fear. Too many people still believe the nonsense that Johnson gets things done, it's baffling.
 
Shandypants said:
There were plenty of warnings that this was going to be a major problem, May's backstop was testament to that but it was all framed as project fear. Too many people still believe the nonsense that Johnson gets things done, it's baffling.
Click to expand...

I think you'll find that nobody even conceived the possibility of GB being banned by the EU from sending food and medicine to Northern Ireland. Even people with half a brain know that is a reactionary tactic designed to hurt the UK and create violence in the province. Then again maybe they don't. You tell us.
 
Tangojoe said:
I think you'll find that nobody even conceived the possibility of GB being banned by the EU from sending food and medicine to Northern Ireland. Even people with half a brain know that is a reactionary tactic designed to hurt the UK and create violence in the province. Then again maybe
Click to expand...

Tangojoe said:
The protocol agreement was even written in English to avoid doubt. You can keep on blaming all and sundry, blame me if it makes you feel better. Own it yourself, I'd have more respect if you said the sacrifice of Northern Ireland was a price worth paying, even Julia Hartley Brewer said that. You on the other hand just spout childlike nonsense and lash out at the nasty french/germans in a pathetic smear because "project fear" and "scaremongering"became reality.
Click to expand...
 
Just maybe the Tory government should follow the rules it signed up to in the desperation to give the Liar in chief a positive headline at the start of the year.
 
The only benefit that I can see from Brexit, apart from blue passports, is that Macron has no influence over us. He is a dreadful man who wants to be president of Europe.
 
As opposed to a lying backstabbing corrupt conman who has regularly abandoned wives, colleagues and so called friends to achieve his ambition to be PM.
 
The EU is clearly using the NI protocol in ways it was never meant to be implemented.

It's been rough on the more demented Remainers for a while now so, while its gives them a little stick to beat the Government with, their arguments don't move the dial in the real world. Brexit is very much in the past tense and the real questions are about the type of relationship the EU wants to have with it's biggest neighbour.

At the moment, the EU seem unable to learn the lessons of the past and appear to be hurtling headlong into some form of diplomatic abyss where they have no control of the situation and can only assert their authority by banning everything and everybody from interacting with their citizens. Look at the recent debacle with Switzerland over their trade deal; the two sides are virtually joined at the hip yet the EU still pissed off the Swiss so much that they walked away from the table.

If the marching season in Ulster results in social unrest then the Government will have little alternative but to invoke Article 16 - which is specifically designed for this scenario - and the checks will stop forthwith.

At this point the EU will lose all control of entry of goods into the single market unless they force Dublin to build a border in Ireland as the UK and Ireland have categorically said neither will. Even I don't think the EU are that stupid but you just never know in this post-Brexit hysteria moment.

In practice, virtually nothing will cross the border and 'contaminate' the single market because cross-border trade is minimal when taken at a EU-wide level so both London and Dublin will stick to their word and everyone will happily get along with their lives - all except the EU Commission and a few Remainer nutters over here who will froth about it like it's the end of European civilisation.

So the UK stays the same as it always was.
Ireland - in practical terms - stays as it was pre-Brexit.
The EU loses control of it's borders and suffers a diplomatic defeat especially if it's remedy is to add more and more restrictions to UK/EU trade. Tariffs were bad under Trump and tariffs are bad when imposed by the EU.

If I can predict it I assume those in Brussels can. But does anyone want to go against perceived wisdom in continental Europe? Possibly not.

The EU seems to be entering an 'end of Empire' stage where control can only be guaranteed by ever increasing shows of strength. It would be far better for the EU in the long term to bring the UK closer rather than constantly trying to push us away.
 
Recidivist3 said:
Hand on heart, Tango, is this what you really believe ?
Click to expand...

I'll put it another way. The blocking of GB goods to the province was an intentional tactic to punish the UK. The EU has no concern whatsoever about the protection of borders in Ireland and the violence that will inevitably follow from its actions. That is collateral damage which further serves the purpose of reminding member states what to expect if they have any fancy ideas about exiting the project.
 
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Curryman said:
Nothing is negotiable’: Macron threatens to veto any changes to Brexit deal. I wonder how he would react if France was unable to export its goods to Corsica? At the same time, he is now warning that during the French turn in the chair (2022) all communications will be in French and expects French to be used as the language of the EU from then on. N.B more people around the world speak Spanish than French and English is the international language for Business.

Meanwhile elsewhere Germany is being taken to court by the EU as they have allegedly broken one of the rules regarding who's law should be used. Poland and Hungary are also in court on a section 7 charge, which could result in them losing their votes in the EU, whilst Poland has been further charged with inequality by allowing judges to retire at 65 whilst female judges retire at 60.

We are paying the French millions to help prevent boat people from crossing the channel, yet more and more are coming daily, around 1,000 a week now.

What amuses me is that we refer to them as our friends across the channel. Some friends!
Click to expand...
Think I'll skip this err, debate. However, for clarity's sake Napoleon mark 2 (ie. Napoleon ll) was the son of Napoleon l, ruled France for a few weeks in 1815 then lived the rest of his life in Austria. He died in 1832.
Napoleon lll was a nephew of Napoleon l and ruled France from 1848-52. He is also dead.
 
Kip said:
The EU is clearly using the NI protocol in ways it was never meant to be implemented.

It's been rough on the more demented Remainers for a while now so, while its gives them a little stick to beat the Government with, their arguments don't move the dial in the real world. Brexit is very much in the past tense and the real questions are about the type of relationship the EU wants to have with it's biggest neighbour.

At the moment, the EU seem unable to learn the lessons of the past and appear to be hurtling headlong into some form of diplomatic abyss where they have no control of the situation and can only assert their authority by banning everything and everybody from interacting with their citizens. Look at the recent debacle with Switzerland over their trade deal; the two sides are virtually joined at the hip yet the EU still pissed off the Swiss so much that they walked away from the table.

If the marching season in Ulster results in social unrest then the Government will have little alternative but to invoke Article 16 - which is specifically designed for this scenario - and the checks will stop forthwith.

At this point the EU will lose all control of entry of goods into the single market unless they force Dublin to build a border in Ireland as the UK and Ireland have categorically said neither will. Even I don't think the EU are that stupid but you just never know in this post-Brexit hysteria moment.

In practice, virtually nothing will cross the border and 'contaminate' the single market because cross-border trade is minimal when taken at a EU-wide level so both London and Dublin will stick to their word and everyone will happily get along with their lives - all except the EU Commission and a few Remainer nutters over here who will froth about it like it's the end of European civilisation.

So the UK stays the same as it always was.
Ireland - in practical terms - stays as it was pre-Brexit.
The EU loses control of it's borders and suffers a diplomatic defeat especially if it's remedy is to add more and more restrictions to UK/EU trade. Tariffs were bad under Trump and tariffs are bad when imposed by the EU.

If I can predict it I assume those in Brussels can. But does anyone want to go against perceived wisdom in continental Europe? Possibly not.

The EU seems to be entering an 'end of Empire' stage where control can only be guaranteed by ever increasing shows of strength. It would be far better for the EU in the long term to bring the UK closer rather than constantly trying to push us away.
Click to expand...

Good post Kip and a fair assessment of the current situation. All I would emphasise is that the power behind these shenanigans comes almost entirely from France, where Macron and Baume have embarked on some kind of perverse gallic crusade to punish the UK and split the Union. Well maybe not so perverse with Macron attempting to prove himself as an alpha leader in good time for the French elections coming up next year. The expected consequences are as you describe except that the European Commission will seek to punish the UK further by imposing tariff penalties and by further litigation. The UK will no doubt retaliate by imposing its own tariffs.

The results will be costly for both sides, but the UK will prioritise peace on the island of Ireland and the EC will be shown up for the self-interested political organisation that it is. No doubt, France will continue to provoke the UK and campaign in the European Parliament for alternative forms of punishment for us. As you suggest, the Commission will impose ever-increasing control over member states in order to bring them more closely in line with the bloc's philosophies. Ultimately, the UK will succeed because the Commission can't fool all of the people all of the time.
 
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I can't say I participated in the EU referendum.

Though to be fair to the AVFTT remoaners, before the referendum when the whole thing was being debated on here, they did make it clear about how life would never be the same if Britain were to leave the EU.

I remember them pointing out how important it was that we made the right decision and were all warned about the huge problems around the Irish borders and fishing rights, and that's not to mention the catastrophic situation we have at the Tavern at the Mill where they are trying to serve Sunday roasts while being a man down.

We're doomed.
 
Tangojoe said:
Here's another stat. The EU wants 20% of checks on goods entering all EU borders to be carried out on goods brought into Northern Ireland from Great Britain. If that's not unnecessary and provocative I don't know what is. NI is nothing at all to do with Macron of course, but he just likes to stick his big Gallic nose where it's not wanted.
Click to expand...
Boris should have tweeked that big Gallic nose and then given him another slap
 
Tangojoe said:
Good post Kip and a fair assessment of the current situation. All I would emphasise is that the power behind these shenanigans comes almost entirely from France, where Macron and Baume have embarked on some kind of perverse gallic crusade to punish the UK and split the Union. Well maybe not so perverse with Macron attempting to prove himself as an alpha leader in good time for the French elections coming up next year. The expected consequences are as you describe except that the European Commission will seek to punish the UK further by imposing tariff penalties and by further litigation. The UK will no doubt retaliate by imposing its own tariffs.

The results will be costly for both sides, but the UK will prioritise peace on the island of Ireland and the EC will be shown up for the self-interested political organisation that it is. No doubt, France will continue to provoke the UK and campaign in the European Parliament for alternative forms of punishment for us. As you suggest, the Commission will impose ever-increasing control over member states in order to bring them more closely in line with the bloc's philosophies. Ultimately, the UK will succeed because the Commission can't fool all of the people all of the time.
Click to expand...
I think we should invite Brittany to join UK
They have more in common with Britain with Celtic rather than Gallic ancestry.
While we are about it I am sure Aquitaine was ruled by the British and we should also offer them the chance to reunite.
I am sure we could make it worthwhile for both regions to consider it. I think that as they were part of Britain Macron would have no objections, but his grasp of history and geography might lead to some confusion
 
Tangojoe said:
I'll put it another way. The blocking of GB goods to the province was an intentional tactic to punish the UK. The EU has no concern whatsoever about the protection of borders in Ireland and the violence that will inevitably follow from its actions. That is collateral damage which further serves the purpose of reminding member states what to expect if they have any fancy ideas about exiting the project.
Click to expand...
The Northern Ireland protocol was agreed on because the EU, like the U.K., wanted to respect the Belfast Agreement. I would suggest that any other theory is bollocks 👍
 
Recidivist3 said:
The Northern Ireland protocol was agreed on because the EU, like the U.K., wanted to respect the Belfast Agreement. I would suggest that any other theory is bollocks 👍
Click to expand...
Don't bother suggesting it, it'll fall on deaf ears. There's spadesful of horse shit being thrown around on this thread.
 
Tangojoe said:
Good post Kip and a fair assessment of the current situation. All I would emphasise is that the power behind these shenanigans comes almost entirely from France, where Macron and Baume have embarked on some kind of perverse gallic crusade to punish the UK and split the Union. Well maybe not so perverse with Macron attempting to prove himself as an alpha leader in good time for the French elections coming up next year. The expected consequences are as you describe except that the European Commission will seek to punish the UK further by imposing tariff penalties and by further litigation. The UK will no doubt retaliate by imposing its own tariffs.

The results will be costly for both sides, but the UK will prioritise peace on the island of Ireland and the EC will be shown up for the self-interested political organisation that it is. No doubt, France will continue to provoke the UK and campaign in the European Parliament for alternative forms of punishment for us. As you suggest, the Commission will impose ever-increasing control over member states in order to bring them more closely in line with the bloc's philosophies. Ultimately, the UK will succeed because the Commission can't fool all of the people all of the time.
Click to expand...
After the farce with Article 16 and the vaccines I think Ireland is terrified the EU will force them to erect a border. Dublin has zero clout in Brussels other than as a foil to attack the UK so their only option is to go begging to Washington and see if the US will intervene.

There is an easy way out of course - the EU just sensibly apply the NI Protocol and everybody lives happily ever after. I'm not holding my breath though.
 
Kip said:
After the farce with Article 16 and the vaccines I think Ireland is terrified the EU will force them to erect a border. Dublin has zero clout in Brussels other than as a foil to attack the UK so their only option is to go begging to Washington and see if the US will intervene.
Click to expand...

I think Varadkar was essentially taken as a fool by the EC, most of the border issues had, by all accounts, already been sorted out with Kenny before he came to office, but V then allowed the EC to weaponise the border in return for some vague promises about uniting Ireland or whatever and the rest is history.
 
I just hope the eu reps at the G7 summit enjoyed their locally caught seafood bbq as they have banned this from being exported to the eu.

A nice bit of history from 1962 about the various Napoleon's, which I was aware of, however Nap ll and Nap lll were fairly innocuous characters. Whereas Nap l was the French forerunner of one Adolf Hitler I'm sure you will agree. My naming of Macron as Nap mark 2 reflects my thoughts on the seemingly wannabee Emperor of the EU.
 
Kip said:
The EU is clearly using the NI protocol in ways it was never meant to be implemented.

It's been rough on the more demented Remainers for a while now so, while its gives them a little stick to beat the Government with, their arguments don't move the dial in the real world. Brexit is very much in the past tense and the real questions are about the type of relationship the EU wants to have with it's biggest neighbour.

At the moment, the EU seem unable to learn the lessons of the past and appear to be hurtling headlong into some form of diplomatic abyss where they have no control of the situation and can only assert their authority by banning everything and everybody from interacting with their citizens. Look at the recent debacle with Switzerland over their trade deal; the two sides are virtually joined at the hip yet the EU still pissed off the Swiss so much that they walked away from the table.

If the marching season in Ulster results in social unrest then the Government will have little alternative but to invoke Article 16 - which is specifically designed for this scenario - and the checks will stop forthwith.

At this point the EU will lose all control of entry of goods into the single market unless they force Dublin to build a border in Ireland as the UK and Ireland have categorically said neither will. Even I don't think the EU are that stupid but you just never know in this post-Brexit hysteria moment.

In practice, virtually nothing will cross the border and 'contaminate' the single market because cross-border trade is minimal when taken at a EU-wide level so both London and Dublin will stick to their word and everyone will happily get along with their lives - all except the EU Commission and a few Remainer nutters over here who will froth about it like it's the end of European civilisation.

So the UK stays the same as it always was.
Ireland - in practical terms - stays as it was pre-Brexit.
The EU loses control of it's borders and suffers a diplomatic defeat especially if it's remedy is to add more and more restrictions to UK/EU trade. Tariffs were bad under Trump and tariffs are bad when imposed by the EU.

If I can predict it I assume those in Brussels can. But does anyone want to go against perceived wisdom in continental Europe? Possibly not.

The EU seems to be entering an 'end of Empire' stage where control can only be guaranteed by ever increasing shows of strength. It would be far better for the EU in the long term to bring the UK closer rather than constantly trying to push us away.
Click to expand...
Excellent post
 
Curryman said:
I just hope the eu reps at the G7 summit enjoyed their locally caught seafood bbq as they have banned this from being exported to the eu.

A nice bit of history from 1962 about the various Napoleon's, which I was aware of, however Nap ll and Nap lll were fairly innocuous characters. Whereas Nap l was the French forerunner of one Adolf Hitler I'm sure you will agree. My naming of Macron as Nap mark 2 reflects my thoughts on the seemingly wannabee Emperor of the EU.
Click to expand...
History courtesy of 1966 if you please.
 
Can anyone help me with the maths?

The EU wants 20% of checks on goods entering all EU borders to be carried out on goods brought into Northern Ireland from Great Britain. And goods brought into Northern Ireland from Great Britain amount to 0.0008% of the EU’s economy,

No. I can't get my head around this one. It's as though the EU was doing something ridiculous and pretending it was all agreed under the Brexit agreement in order to make the UK look like it was in the wrong.
 
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Kip said:
The EU is clearly using the NI protocol in ways it was never meant to be implemented.

It's been rough on the more demented Remainers for a while now so, while its gives them a little stick to beat the Government with, their arguments don't move the dial in the real world. Brexit is very much in the past tense and the real questions are about the type of relationship the EU wants to have with it's biggest neighbour.

At the moment, the EU seem unable to learn the lessons of the past and appear to be hurtling headlong into some form of diplomatic abyss where they have no control of the situation and can only assert their authority by banning everything and everybody from interacting with their citizens. Look at the recent debacle with Switzerland over their trade deal; the two sides are virtually joined at the hip yet the EU still pissed off the Swiss so much that they walked away from the table.

If the marching season in Ulster results in social unrest then the Government will have little alternative but to invoke Article 16 - which is specifically designed for this scenario - and the checks will stop forthwith.

At this point the EU will lose all control of entry of goods into the single market unless they force Dublin to build a border in Ireland as the UK and Ireland have categorically said neither will. Even I don't think the EU are that stupid but you just never know in this post-Brexit hysteria moment.

In practice, virtually nothing will cross the border and 'contaminate' the single market because cross-border trade is minimal when taken at a EU-wide level so both London and Dublin will stick to their word and everyone will happily get along with their lives - all except the EU Commission and a few Remainer nutters over here who will froth about it like it's the end of European civilisation.

So the UK stays the same as it always was.
Ireland - in practical terms - stays as it was pre-Brexit.
The EU loses control of it's borders and suffers a diplomatic defeat especially if it's remedy is to add more and more restrictions to UK/EU trade. Tariffs were bad under Trump and tariffs are bad when imposed by the EU.

If I can predict it I assume those in Brussels can. But does anyone want to go against perceived wisdom in continental Europe? Possibly not.

The EU seems to be entering an 'end of Empire' stage where control can only be guaranteed by ever increasing shows of strength. It would be far better for the EU in the long term to bring the UK closer rather than constantly trying to push us away.
Click to expand...
A well written piece Kip bit somewhat tainted with a brexit biro. Of course Brexit is not "in the past tense"; transition arrangements continue to play out and each side is testing the other. The EU, of course, expect agreements to be upheld. Johnson expects to be allowed to play fast and loose with them. Biden expects more flexibility from Johnson (some hope). Yet, whilst all this seems to play out like a game of 'let's be dead macho businessmen' real issues cloud the horizon. Our fishing industry is taking a bad hit and the Belfast agreement is being heavily tested. In the real world this means the potential return of civil disorder to the streets of Ulster - not a game btw that any politicians should be playing.

On the mainland the Scots have become completely disenchanted with the Tory hegemony south of the Border. I expect Johnson will get his Lord North moment as the UK crumbles on his watch.

As for the UK being the EU's biggest neighbour - rubbish, I'll think you'll find that's Russia and the more fragmented the West is, the more Putin likes it. If you think Biden will let a UK v EU spat play out when there are western security issues at stake then you're badly mistaken.

I'll give you an 'I suppose' moment. I suppose that Britain's soft power in the world will be badly diminished over the next few years. I suppose that Johnson's teflon exterior will crack if riots and violence recommence in Ulster. Moreover, I suppose that the bluff and bluster of the Brexiteers will continue unabated on here despite the protagonists having a smaller and less convinced audience to play to.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
A well written piece Kip bit somewhat tainted with a brexit biro. Of course Brexit is not "in the past tense"; transition arrangements continue to play out and each side is testing the other. The EU, of course, expect agreements to be upheld. Johnson expects to be allowed to play fast and loose with them. Biden expects more flexibility from Johnson (some hope). Yet, whilst all this seems to play out like a game of 'let's be dead macho businessmen' real issues cloud the horizon. Our fishing industry is taking a bad hit and the Belfast agreement is being heavily tested. In the real world this means the potential return of civil disorder to the streets of Ulster - not a game btw that any politicians should be playing.

On the mainland the Scots have become completely disenchanted with the Tory hegemony south of the Border. I expect Johnson will get his Lord North moment as the UK crumbles on his watch.

As for the UK being the EU's biggest neighbour - rubbish, I'll think you'll find that's Russia and the more fragmented the West is, the more Putin likes it. If you think Biden will let a UK v EU spat play out when there are western security issues at stake then you're badly mistaken.

I'll give you an 'I suppose' moment. I suppose that Britain's soft power in the world will be badly diminished over the next few years. I suppose that Johnson's teflon exterior will crack if riots and violence recommence in Ulster. Moreover, I suppose that the bluff and bluster of the Brexiteers will continue unabated on here despite the protagonists having a smaller and less convinced audience to play to.
Click to expand...
It was an opinion with a Brexit slant that hopefully focussed on the NI Protocol, the EU's implementation of it and the likely consequences. Fish and Scottish independence - which pre-dates Brexit by decades - are worth talking about but not really integral to what I was trying to say.

I'm a bit surprised you think countries 'testing' each other is a legitimate way to behave. China may 'test' the Philippines about the Spratley Islands and Pakistan and India may 'test' each other in the Himalayas but it's not something you would expect the EU/UK to engage in. There should be no ill-feeling between the sides having been in partnership for 40 years and and the current mood emanating from Brussels seems out of touch with the feelings of ordinary people in both the UK and the EU. Certainly the UK doesn't act to cause the EU any harm but is the opposite true?

As for Russia; of course Russia is geographically bigger than the UK but in every other context - economically, politically, demographically, strategically - the UK is a far bigger player to the EU. You're right to say that splits in Europe will go down well in Moscow but I'm fairly certain that will affect EU countries before the UK so maybe that's something Brussels should take on board a bit more.

All or none of your suppositions may become true over time although I didn't really understand what the 'smaller and less convinced audience' related to as every poll continues to show an increasing majority who are happy with our post-EU situation. Maybe I misunderstood.

But at least you've made an effort to argue a point rather than just label everyone thick and racist. 👍

I voted Remain btw.
 
Kip said:
It was an opinion with a Brexit slant that hopefully focussed on the NI Protocol, the EU's implementation of it and the likely consequences. Fish and Scottish independence - which pre-dates Brexit by decades - are worth talking about but not really integral to what I was trying to say.

I'm a bit surprised you think countries 'testing' each other is a legitimate way to behave. China may 'test' the Philippines about the Spratley Islands and Pakistan and India may 'test' each other in the Himalayas but it's not something you would expect the EU/UK to engage in. There should be no ill-feeling between the sides having been in partnership for 40 years and and the current mood emanating from Brussels seems out of touch with the feelings of ordinary people in both the UK and the EU. Certainly the UK doesn't act to cause the EU any harm but is the opposite true?

As for Russia; of course Russia is geographically bigger than the UK but in every other context - economically, politically, demographically, strategically - the UK is a far bigger player to the EU. You're right to say that splits in Europe will go down well in Moscow but I'm fairly certain that will affect EU countries before the UK so maybe that's something Brussels should take on board a bit more.

All or none of your suppositions may become true over time although I didn't really understand what the 'smaller and less convinced audience' related to as every poll continues to show an increasing majority who are happy with our post-EU situation. Maybe I misunderstood.

But at least you've made an effort to argue a point rather than just label everyone thick and racist. 👍

I voted Remain btw.
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At least I made an effort - well thank you.
a) I said quite the opposite about the notion of nations testing each other out.

b) the leaders of the principal EU nations are exasperated at Johnson wanting to play fast and loose with the transitional arrangements that he signed up to.

c) In terms of international relations the actions and foreign policy of Russia weigh far more heavily than those of the UK.

No, I didn't just make an effort. I put your thoughts and expressions into context and found them wanting.
 
Anyway.Did anyone attend Norbreck School when Mrs Forshaw made us sing this? Never thought about it until now

"Napoléon avait cinq cent soldats.
Napoléon avait cinq cent soldats.
Napoléon avait cinq cent soldats.
Marchant du même pas !"
 
1966_and_all_that said:
At least I made an effort - well thank you.
a) I said quite the opposite about the notion of nations testing each other out.

b) the leaders of the principal EU nations are exasperated at Johnson wanting to play fast and loose with the transitional arrangements that he signed up to.

c) In terms of international relations the actions and foreign policy of Russia weigh far more heavily than those of the UK.

No, I didn't just make an effort. I put your thoughts and expressions into context and found them wanting.
Click to expand...
You're welcome.

Russia is an irrelevance to this argument. It's clearly a bigger deal to Lithuania but not Portugal. My point still applies to potential splits in western European solidarity and where the responsibility for that lies.

Ultimately, if the EU apply the NI Protocol with practical and not ideological aims then all these problems largely disappear. That might upset some of the extreme federalists but it's the only logical solution.
 
Recidivist3 said:
🙄 So what do you think the ‘practical solution’ is if it isn’t the one agreed to by the U.K. and then ignored
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To apply the checks in a proportionate manner according to the risks to the single market and the unique social make-up of Northern Ireland. The flow into Ireland from the North accounts for about 0.0008% of EU trade. At present around 20% of all external EU border checks take place in N Ireland.

If the UK were to sign a trade deal with India and import hundreds of thousands of cars that don't meet EU standards - and then put them all on carriers at Belfast to be sold in the Republic - then the EU would absolutely in it's right to demand loads of checks at the NI/GB border. The odd packet of sausages or the occasional rhododendron bush don't warrant the current level of scrutiny not least because all food and veterinary standards are currently identical.
 
Not exactly related to the thread but Napoleon 111 and his wife Eugenie lived in a house on Kent in the 1870's before returning to France.
The building is now the Chislehurst Golf Club where I am a member

www.newsshopper.co.uk

Chislehurst golf club commemorates 150 years since arrival of Napoléon III

This week marks the 150th anniversary of Emperor Napoléon finding safe haven in Chislehurst after being defeated in the Franco-Prussian war.
www.newsshopper.co.uk www.newsshopper.co.uk

Factagolfamundo.
 
Hertsseasider said:
Not exactly related to the thread but Napoleon 111 and his wife Eugenie lived in a house on Kent in the 1870's before returning to France.
The building is now the Chislehurst Golf Club where I am a member
No he did not return to France he died in the house that is now the golf club and was buried in Chiselhurst. It says so in the article you posted.
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