Fleetwood's accounts for 20/21

B

basilrobbie3

Well-known member
getting the Kieran Maguire treatment this morning. Key points :

  • debts of around £24m, mainly owed to Pilley but also the EFL
  • wages down, but still 130% of turnover
  • club losing on average around £54,000 per week

Before we get too judgemental about it, other clubs are reporting figures as bad, if not worse. I should imagine our own own losses over the recent period are pretty eye-watering as well. But I also assume that the underlying concern at Fleetwood is the over-reliance on unsustainable levels of spending and the lack of potential for business growth.
 
Yes I can only see Fleetwood scaling back financially in the short and long term. Their peak has passed and can’t rely on the level of personal investment any more. For the genuine Cods it’s been a fantastic trip and should be regarded as so but was never going to be sustainable. They nearly made it to the panicle of their ambitions, a season in the Championship with the big boys but just fell short.
A sustainable position for them now will be league 2 and try and maintain football league status and in a good season play for a play off spot. Good luck to them.
 
It is inevitable this would happen.
Argued with a couple of my turncoat mates who defended that attendances were irrelevant
The Fleetwood lovers on here likewise.
 
The Catcher in the Rye said:
Yes I can only see Fleetwood scaling back financially in the short and long term. Their peak has passed and can’t rely on the level of personal investment any more. For the genuine Cods it’s been a fantastic trip and should be regarded as so but was never going to be sustainable. They nearly made it to the panicle of their ambitions, a season in the Championship with the big boys but just fell short.
A sustainable position for them now will be league 2 and try and maintain football league status and in a good season play for a play off spot. Good luck to them.
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Interestingly my cod chum said only last week that league 2 was realistically where they are as a club moving forward
 
Wizaard said:
Remind me, did I say it was an unsustainable vanity project from them getting in the League?

The sooner they return to where they belong, the better.
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Wiz

That hardly makes you Nostradamus.

I'm not sure too many - if anybody - thought that their outstanding progress would have been made without Pilley's investment.

If somebody with too much disposable for their own good was to invest in us and helped ensure we had a good run, I'd be excited about that good run and not overly bothered about the sustainability.

I'm imagining that probably makes me a Fleetwood lover ?
 
It's a hell of a lot of money to lose each week for the sake of a hobby. I think my twice-weekly 2 hour sessions of badminton at £5 each are looking pretty good value right now.
 
SEASIDE2020 said:
Wiz

That hardly makes you Nostradamus.

I'm not sure too many - if anybody - thought that there outstanding progress would have been made without Pilley's investment.

If somebody with too much disposable for their own good was to invest in us and helped ensure we had a good run, I'd be excited about that good run and not overly bothered about the sustainability.

I'm imagining that probably makes me a Fleetwood lover ?
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No, it doesn't make me Nostrodamus, but at the time, the Cod lovers were telling us that it was fully sustainable and didn't need huge injections of capital.

Utter nonsense as year on year accounts demonstrate.

And that's where we differ. I can't abide clubs spending what they don't have to get an advantage. It defeats the point of competition.
 
Wizaard said:
No, it doesn't make me Nostrodamus, but at the time, the Cod lovers were telling us that it was fully sustainable and didn't need huge injections of capital.

Utter nonsense as year on year accounts demonstrate.

And that's where we differ. I can't abide clubs spending what they don't have to get an advantage. It defeats the point of competition.
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Wiz

As I said, I'm not sure anybody didn't put their outstanding progress down to Pilley's investment.

It's no big deal Wiz but when you say that you want them to get back where they belong ASAP - I'm not quoting you but I think it amounted to that - do you want every team in football to be in the exact position that they should be according to the resources - resources generated by the supporter base not a sugar daddy ?

Do you want Fleetwood to be non league and us to be halfway up the Championship - let's put any argument about where we rank exactly - and never dare to aim higher and actually go higher ?

I find such a view hard to reconcile with your continued moaning - apologies if that's too strong a word - about the same sides competing at the top of the Premier League all the time.
 
SEASIDE2020 said:
If somebody with too much disposable for their own good was to invest in us and helped ensure we had a good run, I'd be excited about that good run and not overly bothered about the sustainability.

I'm imagining that probably makes me a Fleetwood lover ?
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No. But it would make you a bit of an idiot.
 
SEASIDE2020 said:
Wiz

As I said, I'm not sure anybody didn't put their outstanding progress down to Pilley's investment.

It's no big deal Wiz but when you say that you want them to get back where they belong ASAP - I'm not quoting you but I think it amounted to that - do you want every team in football to be in the exact position that they should be according to the resources - resources generated by the supporter base not a sugar daddy ?

Do you want Fleetwood to be non league and us to be halfway up the Championship - let's put any argument about where we rank exactly - and never dare to aim higher and actually go higher ?

I find such a view hard to reconcile with your continued moaning - apologies if that's too strong a word - about the same sides competing at the top of the Premier League all the time.
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Careful 2020 you’ll be labelled a Codhead next. 🤣
 
basilrobbie3 said:
No. But it would make you a bit of an idiot.
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Robbie

The sort of response I have grown to expect from you.

I am sure the majority of our football supporters would be perfectly happy for a big investor* to come in at their club and bankroll a successful period as long as the club was able to "go back to where they belong" at the end of that investment period.

You have long term sustainability - let's assume all clubs have long term sustainability although we though that's not the case - AND a successful period rather than just long term sustainability.

Please would you be as kind as to tell this idiot exactly which football supporter(s) would not want their club(s) to benefit from the hypothetical discussion I have described ?

* The big investor has passed all the tests to your satisfaction
 
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SEASIDE2020 said:
Robbie

The sort of response I have grown to expect from you.

I am sure the majority of our football supporters would be perfectly happy for a big investor* to come in at their club and bankroll a successful period as long as the club was able to "go back to where they belong" at the end of that investment period.

You have long term sustainability - let's assume all clubs have long term sustainability although we though that's not the case - AND a successful period rather than just long term sustainability.

Please would you be as kind as to tell this idiot exactly which football supporter(s) would not want their club(s) to benefit from the hypothetical discussion I have described ?

* The big investor has passed all the tests to your satisfaction
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You soon changed the rules, didn't you? There was no mention of passing investor tests in your first post. You just said "jam today, please" and to hell with tomorrow.

Let's no forget that you have long maintained that the problem with football finance is that the small clubs don't live within the means available from the crumbs that the big clubs give them.
 
SEASIDE2020 said:
Wiz

That hardly makes you Nostradamus.

I'm not sure too many - if anybody - thought that their outstanding progress would have been made without Pilley's investment.

If somebody with too much disposable for their own good was to invest in us and helped ensure we had a good run, I'd be excited about that good run and not overly bothered about the sustainability.

I'm imagining that probably makes me a Fleetwood lover ?
Click to expand...
SEASIDE2020 said:
Wiz

That hardly makes you Nostradamus.

I'm not sure too many - if anybody - thought that their outstanding progress would have been made without Pilley's investment.

If somebody with too much disposable for their own good was to invest in us and helped ensure we had a good run, I'd be excited about that good run and not overly bothered about the sustainability.

I'm imagining that probably makes me a Fleetwood lover ?
Click to expand...
no but bordering on a nobber.
 
SEASIDE2020 said:
Robbie

The sort of response I have grown to expect from you.

I am sure the majority of our football supporters would be perfectly happy for a big investor* to come in at their club and bankroll a successful period as long as the club was able to "go back to where they belong" at the end of that investment period.

You have long term sustainability - let's assume all clubs have long term sustainability although we though that's not the case - AND a successful period rather than just long term sustainability.

Please would you be as kind as to tell this idiot exactly which football supporter(s) would not want their club(s) to benefit from the hypothetical discussion I have described ?

* The big investor has passed all the tests to your satisfaction
Click to expand...
Your conflicting two separate issues here 2020 if an owner wants to throw a good few quid in then fair enough the average club will survive with or without the sugar daddy.

Fleetwood can't.
Without AP's money they can't open the doors and pay the bills in Lge 1,if he walked away tomorrow the club goes under as no one would be prepared to pay off the huge debts and the club who don't own the ground with those losses ain't worth a single pound.
 
SEASIDE2020 said:
Wiz

That hardly makes you Nostradamus.

I'm not sure too many - if anybody - thought that their outstanding progress would have been made without Pilley's investment.

If somebody with too much disposable for their own good was to invest in us and helped ensure we had a good run, I'd be excited about that good run and not overly bothered about the sustainability.

I'm imagining that probably makes me a Fleetwood lover ?
Click to expand...
It was interesting to recall the reaction when Wrexham announced they were to be taken over by two Hollywood A actors,indeed some on this thread were celebrating the fact the club had 'Latvian cash' when it was storming into the PL.

Personally I think on an even keel as it were (ie no covid etc) then the Cods can manage to keep EFL status.given the distribution of funds they receive from TV and consolidarity payments. Folk often overlook this because they've a chip on their shoulder about Fleetwood,but its a fact of life that wise spending in these circumstances can sustain a professional club.
 
If Pilley enjoys it and has the money then it's up to him really, they'll never be sustainable.

Just as long as we don't have to watch any more of his 'woe is me' lockdown videos I don't care, there was a gulf in class between Pilley and Sir Simon's responses to the lockdowns.
 
nameless said:
It was interesting to recall the reaction when Wrexham announced they were to be taken over by two Hollywood A actors,indeed some on this thread were celebrating the fact the club had 'Latvian cash' when it was storming into the PL.

Personally I think on an even keel as it were (ie no covid etc) then the Cods can manage to keep EFL status.given the distribution of funds they receive from TV and consolidarity payments. Folk often overlook this because they've a chip on their shoulder about Fleetwood,but its a fact of life that wise spending in these circumstances can sustain a professional club.
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When they're spending 130% of income on wages despite clearing out the high earners, I don't think that stacks up. The home support is never going to top 3,000 and that's unsustainable. We on the other hand, can regularly get over 10,000. A world of difference.
 
Wizaard said:
No, it doesn't make me Nostrodamus, but at the time, the Cod lovers were telling us that it was fully sustainable and didn't need huge injections of capital.

Utter nonsense as year on year accounts demonstrate.

And that's where we differ. I can't abide clubs spending what they don't have to get an advantage. It defeats the point of competition.
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Most clubs do it. The competition seems to be how far owners are prepared to go with that risk in mind. We have joined in now. We just have to hope Sadler and co. don't overdo it. I'm not saying I agree with it, just how it is.
 
Wizaard said:
When they're spending 130% of income on wages despite clearing out the high earners, I don't think that stacks up. The home support is never going to top 3,000 and that's unsustainable. We on the other hand, can regularly get over 10,000. A world of difference.
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Yet you were the one having a pop last season because they started to offload their top earners.

You can’t have it both ways running a business. 😉
 
Wizaard said:
When they're spending 130% of income on wages despite clearing out the high earners, I don't think that stacks up. The home support is never going to top 3,000 and that's unsustainable. We on the other hand, can regularly get over 10,000. A world of difference.
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20 years ago Blackpool struggled to get 3000 , who knows what the future holds
 
Lets be honest. If it goes tits up for them in the next couple of years most would probably take it. They've done things and experienced stuff unimaginable when i was a kid growing up in Fleetwood. The football club was a joke. From where they are now to what they started off as is a football miracle even with the money invested.
I just hope theres some kind of club left at the end of it for the town.
 
Just to digress for a moment, can Pool survive in the Championship on gates between 10 and 12k ? A big away following will add a couple of thousand, but is the support really there to expand further ?
 
Wizaard said:
When they're spending 130% of income on wages despite clearing out the high earners, I don't think that stacks up. The home support is never going to top 3,000 and that's unsustainable. We on the other hand, can regularly get over 10,000. A world of difference.
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There is a significance difference on the gates but its not polarised and its not about the Cods and the Seasiders, where subject was about the formers EFL sustainability.

The TV share and consolidarity payments are considerable and not 'crumbs' as @basilrobbie3 has stated, which means that clubs like Fleetwood,Burton and Colchester a few years ago could sustain and push for the Championship without breaking FFP rules.

That said AP has pushed the boat out and has had business problems, and I would guess to a degree its come to bite him back on the 'arris.

Still no reason why the Gold Coast cant have two professional clubs though
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
Yet you were the one having a pop last season because they started to offload their top earners.

You can’t have it both ways running a business. 😉
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I didn't have a pop. I said they were offloading because they were in financial doodoo and was assured that wasn't the case.

Seems I was right.
 
Middxile said:
Just to digress for a moment, can Pool survive in the Championship on gates between 10 and 12k ? A big away following will add a couple of thousand, but is the support really there to expand further ?
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Yes, but as always, support is dependent on results. There's no reason at all why we wouldn't get at least 14,000 every game, especially if the East Stand issue is resolved.
 
Blackpools finest said:
20 years ago Blackpool struggled to get 3000 , who knows what the future holds
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Our lowest average in the past 30 years was 3.5k during the boycott (massaged figures admittedly). Twenty years ago it was 5k, we had one year at 3k forty years ago when we had to apply for re-election. Preston were 3.5k 3 years later, the mid eighties was a real slump in attendances.

Fleetwood have never been above 3.5k.
 
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Lytham_fy8 said:
Our lowest average in the past 30 years was 3.5k during the boycott. Twenty years ago it was 5k, we had one year at 3k forty years ago when we had to apply for re-election. Preston were 3.5k 3 years later, the mid eighties was a real slump in attendances.

Fleetwood have never been above 3.5k.
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I think the year of our lowest ever average gate was also the year every team had low gates as it was when football hooliganism had hit the game the hardest and families had totally given up going.
 
Wizaard said:
I didn't have a pop. I said they were offloading because they were in financial doodoo and was assured that wasn't the case.

Seems I was right.
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You we’re right now you’re having another pop saying they don’t deserve to be in league one because they get poor gates just like you keep reminding us Fylde don’t deserve to succeed as well. 😴
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
You we’re right now you’re having another pop saying they don’t deserve to be in league one because they get poor gates just like you keep reminding us Fylde don’t deserve to succeed as well. 😴
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Another unsustainable vanity project. Do they still have the 2022 logo on their shirts?
 
The Catcher in the Rye said:
Yes I can only see Fleetwood scaling back financially in the short and long term. Their peak has passed and can’t rely on the level of personal investment any more. For the genuine Cods it’s been a fantastic trip and should be regarded as so but was never going to be sustainable. They nearly made it to the panicle of their ambitions, a season in the Championship with the big boys but just fell short.
A sustainable position for them now will be league 2 and try and maintain football league status and in a good season play for a play off spot. Good luck to them.
Click to expand...
They’ve invested massively in the youth and training ground.
They have to start having 5 or 6 of their first team 18 at least being from that route if not more.

Cut wages dramatically and ensure they are a selling club every season.
 
Loans aren’t a problem per se. As long as no one asks for it back.

Neither is a £54k a week loss. If you’ve got someone who can pay it. Every week.

And of course this was Covid year with no crowd revenue. Otherwise losses would be no more than £53k a week!
 
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