CL Final Trouble

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Tell that to the scared 8 year old with blood running into his eyes.
Ah, the 'tell that to...' reposte.
Took my own kids to the top of the stand as I anticipated a bit of needle. Likewise outside of the stadium, stayed well clear of the police cordon and flying bins. Never had a problem at the footy, me, and I've been all over and abroad with England. Occasionally completely larruped. Easy peasy when you know how 👍🏻
 
Ah, the 'tell that to...' reposte.
Took my own kids to the top of the stand as I anticipated a bit of needle. Likewise outside of the stadium, stayed well clear of the police cordon and flying bins. Never had a problem at the footy, me, and I've been all over and abroad with England. Occasionally completely larruped. Easy peasy when you know how 👍🏻
So the kid deserved it for not being savvy?
 
But of course that happens. It's part of the event. People have tried to jib in to events for ever and ever and ever.

My point is - if police can screw up policing relatively easy things then they can screw up policing more complex things.

People being crushed outside a ground, a lack of communication. Stewards downing tools and walking off the job.

It sounds to me like the cheapest possible security with minimal experience were employed for tbe occasion. Millions will have been spent on pre match shows and fireworks, millions spent on corporate hospitality and so on. Stewarding the actual fans who turned up was done on the cheap.

Fans are almost an inconvenience to events like this now.
They provably are an inconvenience to them, or seen as such.

But the reality is poor policing, organisation and thousands turning up all contribute to the issue.

If people don't turn up ticketless there's probably far less an issue.

Who goes somewhere where you can't get in and will cause your own fans with tickets issues.

Go to Paris yes and watch in pubs if you want, why flood the stadium area though.. unless they're planning to sneak in.

Tbh if you ain't going in I'd rather watch in the UK as we know how foreign police treat fans.
 
Go to Paris yes and watch in pubs if you want, why flood the stadium area though.. unless they're planning to sneak in.
Did they? Yet to see any evidence of this, but of course, it will never be needed. "A lie travels round the world before the truth has got its boots on"


“I come here without papers, without anything at all. It's free for me! I'm going to fuck France soon! Long live Algeria & Morocco!'
 
All the people I currently work with are based in Liverpool..

Friday, 10 people from the company office were off (individually) to Paris for the game
4 had tickets bought from Liverpool FC......and 6 had fake tickets, which they knew were fake, but they just wanted to be in Paris etc etc.......
They bought them because they were told, the first 2 barriers into the ground, just looked at the tickets, but didn't scan them or confirm they were real.....It wasn't until they got to the gates/turnstiles that the tickets were going to be checked with a scanner...

All are back in on Monday.......should make an interesting teams call.........
 
That's a sombre read and as some-one who has been critical of LFC fans I don't doubt all of what he said is true. And because of that there is no doubt a need for an investigation into the actions of the authorities and the policing. But ticketless and fans with forged tickets only added to the problems.
So far we've not seen any actual evidence of ticketless fans, or fans with forged tickets, and the reports are that the ones trying to break in were locals and not LFC fans, we know that at least some supposedly fake tickets were definitely real.

In any event, it's the job of the organizers to anticipate this kind of situation and have a plan in place to deal with it, which means an outer cordon to keep the ticketless and obvious fakes away from the ground, and possibly further checks before the ground to ensure the tickets are genuine, plus there must be sufficient gates and personnel to deal with the volume.

None of that appears to have been in place, no pre-ground checks and what looks like too few gates open and processing the crowd too slowly.

I've seen at least one report of bribes being asked for at the gate, so was that the problem? Anyone who turned up and handed over €20 or so could get in, but those with valid tickets who didn't pay were declared "fake" or just processed incredibly slowly.
 
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All the people I currently work with are based in Liverpool..

Friday, 10 people from the company office were off (individually) to Paris for the game
4 had tickets bought from Liverpool FC......and 6 had fake tickets, which they knew were fake, but they just wanted to be in Paris etc etc.......
They bought them because they were told, the first 2 barriers into the ground, just looked at the tickets, but didn't scan them or confirm they were real.....It wasn't until they got to the gates/turnstiles that the tickets were going to be checked with a scanner...

All are back in on Monday.......should make an interesting teams call.........

So far we've not seen any actual evidence of ticketless fans, or fans with forged tickets, and the reports are that the ones trying to break in were locals and not LFC fans, we know that at least some supposedly fake tickets were in definitely real.

In any event, it's the job of the organizers to anticipate this kind of situation and have a plan in place to deal with it, which means an outer cordon to keep the ticketless and obvious fakes away from the ground, and possibly further checks before the ground to ensure the tickets are genuine, plus there must be sufficient gates and personnel to deal with the volume.

None of that appears to have been in place, no pre-ground checks and what looks like too few gates open and processing the crowd too slowly.

I've seen at least one report of bribes being asked for at the gate, so was that the problem? Anyone who turned up and handed over €20 or so could get in, but those with valid tickets who didn't pay were declared "fake" or just processed incredibly slowly.
I refer you to bsides post. That's just one person saying they knew of a group of six with knowingly forged tickets. That's just one! Do you not think it begs the question then how many scousers were there with forged tickets? Sure, the policing looked bad and the tear gas seemed way over the top but let's not detract from the point that it seems what were perhaps those with the forged tickets caused significant problems for the police, the authorities and all the Liverpool fans with genuine tickets. And it's happened before. And there didn't seem to be problems at the other end of the ground.
 
Did they? Yet to see any evidence of this, but of course, it will never be needed. "A lie travels round the world before the truth has got its boots on"


“I come here without papers, without anything at all. It's free for me! I'm going to fuck France soon! Long live Algeria & Morocco!'
Only going off the reports and what we've seen. Also not like they don't have previous for it.
 
All the people I currently work with are based in Liverpool..

Friday, 10 people from the company office were off (individually) to Paris for the game
4 had tickets bought from Liverpool FC......and 6 had fake tickets, which they knew were fake, but they just wanted to be in Paris etc etc.......
They bought them because they were told, the first 2 barriers into the ground, just looked at the tickets, but didn't scan them or confirm they were real.....It wasn't until they got to the gates/turnstiles that the tickets were going to be checked with a scanner...

All are back in on Monday.......should make an interesting teams call.........
That sort of scenario will have been replicated many times over.
 
I refer you to bsides post. That's just one person saying they knew of a group of six with knowingly forged tickets. That's just one! Do you not think it begs the question then how many scousers were there with forged tickets? Sure, the policing looked bad and the tear gas seemed way over the top but let's not detract from the point that it seems what were perhaps those with the forged tickets caused significant problems for the police, the authorities and all the Liverpool fans with genuine tickets. And it's happened before. And there didn't seem to be problems at the other end of the ground.
You keep saying scousers but there will have been loads of Liverpool fans who aren't scousers. I can see your hatred for the city of Liverpool clouding your judgement.
 
All the people I currently work with are based in Liverpool..

Friday, 10 people from the company office were off (individually) to Paris for the game
4 had tickets bought from Liverpool FC......and 6 had fake tickets, which they knew were fake, but they just wanted to be in Paris etc etc.......
They bought them because they were told, the first 2 barriers into the ground, just looked at the tickets, but didn't scan them or confirm they were real.....It wasn't until they got to the gates/turnstiles that the tickets were going to be checked with a scanner...

All are back in on Monday.......should make an interesting teams call.........
What did they expect to happen once the tickets got scanned at the turnstile 🤔

What’s the logic behind this ?
 
You keep saying scousers but there will have been loads of Liverpool fans who aren't scousers. I can see your hatred for the city of Liverpool clouding your judgement.
No hatred for the city whatsoever. I'm a regular visitor to the city and thinks it's a lovely city. Much prefer it to Manchester as a city to look round. So you're well wide of the mark with that.
 
I refer you to bsides post. That's just one person saying they knew of a group of six with knowingly forged tickets. That's just one! Do you not think it begs the question then how many scousers were there with forged tickets? Sure, the policing looked bad and the tear gas seemed way over the top but let's not detract from the point that it seems what were perhaps those with the forged tickets caused significant problems for the police, the authorities and all the Liverpool fans with genuine tickets. And it's happened before. And there didn't seem to be problems at the other end of the ground.

So that's six people based on one anonymous internet poster, (who I have on my ignore list), and all the media reports are saying this was not the problem.

In any event, my point stands, it is the organizers' responsibility to plan for this sort of thing and have measures in place to deal with it, they failed to do that and this was the result.
 
We slag off police in France ,we slag off police in Britain . I don't see too much blame on dodgy ticket sellers or people what don't have tickets at all turning up . Maybe if people helped the police rather then standing back as crimes are committed ,then we might not have these problems . Call me a grass ,but I would point out anyone selling a dodgy ticket or if I knew someone who was going to a game to try and get in for free ,I would turn them in. Think of the play off final against West Ham . If tickets were sold properly there would have been no trouble then . Yet someone either sells to the wrong fans or buys to sell for profit ,not caring that we have a bunch of scum in our end.
 
So that's six people based on one anonymous internet poster, (who I have on my ignore list), and all the media reports are saying this was not the problem.

In any event, my point stands, it is the organizers' responsibility to plan for this sort of thing and have measures in place to deal with it, they failed to do that and this was the result.
My point stands too. It's happened before with Liverpool fans. Ticketless/forged tickets.
 
Really don't get your point about exiting the stadium. They clearly had tickets. And for me you really understate your point "there were some scallies about" Hey, what's the problem with a few scallies being about? Well clearly it was a problem.
It was a predictable problem is the point. To plan for the exact number of ticket holders to be in the vicinity of the stadium is madness. It's a global event and everyone on earth knew there'd be way more people there There was obviously a fuck up in how they controlled the cordon around the stadium

The point about exiting the stadium is simple. Crowd control plans impact on different parts of stadia in different ways depending on where and how cordons are placed and the geography etc. Yes, I'm talking about a slightly different circumstance but the point is relevant. It's too simple to say "well no issues at that part of the ground therefore the other part of the ground must be full of troublemakers" because that's not how it works.

If it wasn't a multi million (billion?) pound event then it would be more understandable. This wasn't a church fete overwhelmed by crowds - this was the biggest annual event of a sport which has unthinkable resources and they singularly failed to manage it leading to public safety issues. Whether Liverpool fans had tickets or not and in what numbers is not actually a get out for the authorities in my opinion.

I'm absolutely not a Liverpool defender. Look at my posts on here over the years. I can't stand them and their self mythologising,self glorying ways. I think it goes deeper than them and their fans though.
 
It was a predictable problem is the point. To plan for the exact number of ticket holders to be in the vicinity of the stadium is madness. It's a global event and everyone on earth knew there'd be way more people there There was obviously a fuck up in how they controlled the cordon around the stadium

The point about exiting the stadium is simple. Crowd control plans impact on different parts of stadia in different ways depending on where and how cordons are placed and the geography etc. Yes, I'm talking about a slightly different circumstance but the point is relevant. It's too simple to say "well no issues at that part of the ground therefore the other part of the ground must be full of troublemakers" because that's not how it works.

If it wasn't a multi million (billion?) pound event then it would be more understandable. This wasn't a church fete overwhelmed by crowds - this was the biggest annual event of a sport which has unthinkable resources and they singularly failed to manage it leading to public safety issues. Whether Liverpool fans had tickets or not and in what numbers is not actually a get out for the authorities in my opinion.

I'm absolutely not a Liverpool defender. Look at my posts on here over the years. I can't stand them and their self mythologising,self glorying ways. I think it goes deeper than them and their fans though.
The point is pretty straight forward for me. If you ain't got a ticket you shouldn't be anywhere near the stadium. Why were they there? Why were fans with forged tickets there? Could it be that it was to try and get into the stadium? Or are you trying to suggest they'd have been happy standing outside the stadium listening to noise whilst actually seeing nothing of the game. There was a fanzone specially created for fans without tickets wasn't there?
And if it goes deeper, why weren't RM fans trying to do the same. Why weren't ticketless Rangers fans trying to get into the stadium in Seville? lt's happened before on more than one occasion. Sure, there's a need to know why the police were so heavy handed on what were probably a lot of innocent fans with tickets but I still maintain their were a good number of fans there with the sole intention of what was in effect ruining it for others.
 
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Some of the anti- Liverpool comments on here are disgraceful.

The last time I checked Liverpool are an English club. You may not like them in domestic competitions, but they should be supported when they're playing a foreign team.

So much for patriotism!
 
The impression I have after reading this thread is that the mindless parking of the Police vans to partially block the route in to the Liverpool end seems to have been the single biggest contributing factor to the problem.
No doubt there were ticketless fans, forged tickets and local troublemakers etc, but what on earth were they doing blocking the way with their vehicles like that?
 
Some of the anti- Liverpool comments on here are disgraceful.

The last time I checked Liverpool are an English club. You may not like them in domestic competitions, but they should be supported when they're playing a foreign team.

So much for patriotism!
You won't find any anti Liverpool FC comments from me. I really wanted them to win. As you say they are an English club so I'll support them for that reason. As for the fans, I think most of them will say they are scouse not English and have zero connect with the national team. Care to explain away their patriotism?
 
One of the Liverpool lads who went had paid £50 for his fake ticket......everyone was saying..."Why"

If someone had taken the time to copy tickets knowing fans would be travelling to Paris and was charging £50....fans must of thought they had a chance of getting in
Looks like the Parisian police caused a lot of the problems themselves
Mix that in with locals trying to get in without tickets.....and some fake tickets only being discovered at the turnstiles...... it' was recipe for disaster...
Luckily, it was just a bit of pepper spray and some delay in getting in.......it wasn't a riot or a major kick off
 
Was in the Leppings Lane end at Hillsborough. Attended the game with a Liverpool pal of mine Shocker that day. Never felt so sick of football in my life. Had an awful feeling when we were queuing to get into Craven Cottage this season - not dis-similar, just less numbers, but you could feel it. Policing in Paris looked appalling - sure, there'll be loads of fans tanked up - 8pm kick off, no shit sherlock - gotta be dealt with. One obvious issue - loads of turnstiles at Stade de France, but hardly any open judging by the reports, unforgivable - an absolute disgrace. Not enough turnstiles at Hillsborough, but that was the ground design, not a case of closed off entrances. Feel for the fans who spent hard earned money for that shit show. And FFS - that Morrocan / Tunis guy in the video - who got into the game free and is gonna fuck France, here we go again, 'Je suis Charlie' .... and as for the French in general.... I'll leave it there.
 
It's clear now that it was a big mistake moving the game from St Petersburg. With no flights entering the country from the West, demand for tickets would have been far less. If anyone did happen to make it over the border into Russia, the threat of an indefinite prison sentence for no good reason would have cut out any of these kind of shenanigans.
 
Just heard from my younger brother who was at the fan park near the ground.

He said they were letting people leave one by one after the game which created a bit of a crush. Then the police thew canisters of tear gas over the fence which created panic and then they were pepper spraying people who were running away from the tear gas.

Completely unprovoked as people were just trying to leave when the game had finished. He got pepper sprayed and he’s the mildest mannered lad you could meet.

He said he saw children get pepper sprayed, sounded like an absolute nightmare and he’s pretty shaken up from the whole experience.
 
It seems to me there was a more relaxed approach in getting the Real fans into the ground! Is there a subconscious bias among the continental police in relation to British fans? Forged tickets seems to be an easy escape clause!
I don't know why as some of the foreign thug fans seem way worse than English fans now. Maybe they are just like this with most?
 
It seems to me there was a more relaxed approach in getting the Real fans into the ground! Is there a subconscious bias among the continental police in relation to British fans? Forged tickets seems to be an easy escape clause!

The fundamental problem seems to have been not enough staff on the gates and no staff whatsoever outside the gates, so perhaps they had a shortage of staff, fully manned the gates on the Madrid side of the ground and perhaps even set up checkpoints outside, but then let the entirety of the shortfall fall on the Liverpool side of the ground.

Also, the Real side of the ground is apparently easier to get to because of the layout outside, so perhaps that was an issue.
 
‘I don’t post on Facebook much, but I have to after last night.

Please don’t just accept the UEFA narrative that it was just “Liverpool FC fans again”. It wasn’t. I was there.

The treatment dished out to us tonight by the French Police and UEFA.com was an utter disgrace. We were kettled several times, crushed, tear gassed, pepper sprayed and had dogs snapping at us.

To give some context, I’m 52 and can’t abide violence. I had my 17 year old son with me. I’m a Liverpool season ticket holder, Secretary of a large Community Youth Football Club and Director of a County Football Association.

I was at Istanbul in 2005 (no trouble but also no roads to the stadium), Athens in 2007 (shambles), Kyiv in 2018 (brilliant venue and City) and Madrid in 2019 (no ticket for that one so watched it in a bar in the City).

Last night, we were tear gassed just for standing in a queue for a turnstile which we’d been stuck in for 90 minutes because they closed the gates.

And apparently we’re to blame for arriving late. We arrived over two hours before the scheduled KO time and got in at 21:32.

The day started well, and the atmosphere in the (brilliant) The Anfield Wrap fan park was electric. It finished at 17:30 and we walked to Gare du Nord to get the RER D line to Stade de France.

We arrived at the RER station for the stadium at 18:48 - some 2 hrs 12 minutes before the KO time. We wanted to get in early. The problems started there.

I’ve read that “too many Liverpool fans went to the same single entrance”. Well, there wasn’t another option. The few Police there directed us that way. We didn’t have a choice.

Sati Yogi was already in by this point and warned us it was getting problematical at the stadium. We had no idea what was in store.

Me, Henry and Stephen Foxwell joined a growing band of LFC supporters (and a few Madrid) following a winding route which seemed to get narrower and narrower. Along the way, Police vans occasionally reduced the width to just a couple of people at a time.

At this point I should stress that of our group of seven people, six of us had legitimate tickets. The seventh stayed in a bar in Paris to watch. Our tickets were from a mixture of LFC ballot for season ticket holders, UEFA ballot and a couple from a friend who couldn’t go.

By 19:44 - still 76 mins before KO but an hour after arriving at the station (we had been funnelled by riot vans into a narrow crush beneath an underpass and it took over an hour to get through this) we reached a “ticket check” line. But, moments before we eventually got to the line, they withdrew the stewards and police, effectively abandoning the ticket check outside the stadium perimeter. The result was a stampede. Mixed into this group were people without tickets (yes, some LFC fans) including hundreds of local youths.

We went straight to gate B - as per our tickets. I’d kept ours tucked away in a travel pouch and Steve had his in his shoe. We’ve seen tickets snatched at the turnstile before. I saw this happen yesterday too.

At 21.00 - the scheduled KO time - we were still in the queue for Gate B, which is one of about 20 entrances. It was the same at all the others. They had closed the gates and nobody got through for over an hour (we joined this queue about 19:50).

We saw a growing band of locals hovering around the edge of the queue. Remember that the first line of ticket check, designed presumably to keep ticketless people away from the stadium concourse, had been abandoned. They didn’t have tickets and we saw around 10 of them scale a fence and get in. This is the image you’ll see on Sky/BBC - it happened once, at Gate B, right in front of us. It wasn’t LIverpool fans.

We didn’t see any Stewards or Poilce in this area at all. The Riot Police arrived only after the youths had scaled the fence. They deployed tear gas (it may have been pepper spray) and everyone in the queue got a dose. There were families - young children - and elderly. There was nowhere to escape it - we were penned in by a wall and fence on one side and a security barrier on the other.

The tear gas was horrific. I’ve never experienced it before. I have to admit, I was terrified but I could tell Henry was also scared and I wanted to try and keep him both calm and safe. We stayed put, covered our mouths as best we could, with our eyes streaming and chests tightened.

The KO was delayed. We found out by people inside texting us, as there were no announcements outside at all. The stewards eventually opened Gate B at 21:08 and we somehow got through and in. We got to our seat at 21:28.

I’m not posting about the match - suffice to say, it was disappointing - but the support given to our incredible team was exemplary and they deserve it.

Shortly before full time, lines of Riot Police assembled in the stadium in front of us, shields up and batons drawn. There were none in front of the Madrid fans. There’d been no incident during the match itself (most of us were in a stunned haze) so why was this necessary?

After the final whistle (fair play Madrid - took their one big chance and we didn’t) we stayed to show our appreciation to the Liverpool players. I couldn’t bear to see Madrid lift the trophy so we left after about 10 minutes. And it started all over again.

Heading towards a Metro station this time, we were funnelled under an underpass by Riot Police all tooled up and with vans parked so as to create a tiny gap for thousands of fans to pass through. The tear gas was used once again and we saw people in real difficulty.

We also saw a gang of local youths hanging around and saw someone who’d been attacked by them. The Police stood by and watched, and offered him no help.

We gave up on the Metro and instead walked slowly back to our Hotel which was thankfully only about 3 miles from the stadium.

Will anything happen? I fully expect the story that Liverpool fans arrived late, were drunk, were violent, and were ticketless, to stick. We’ve been here before, haven’t we?

Gary Lineker was outside the stadium and walked through our queue with other media and dignitaries and tweeted his view on things. But “fans of other clubs” will no doubt revel in another negative Liverpool story.

I was there. I know the truth.’
 
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Show me one time when the French, Spanish or Italian Robocops have covered an event with any sort of honour?

Bully boys hiding behind a shield and armoured clothing who have license to assault who they like.
I know mate,spoke to 2 rangers fans who were in Saville last week,
And they said people were passing out with the heat and dehydration,
And the police were just standing drinking water and laughing .
 
Show me one time when the French, Spanish or Italian Robocops have covered an event with any sort of honour?

Apparently the UEFA cup (or whatever it is these days) in Seville was done well so credit where credit's due.

Stade de France appears to be a recurring trouble-spot.
 
Both clubs supporters had been mugged before they purchased their tickets, 19500 allocation each in an 80000 capacity . Who's final is it ? The parasites and champagne brigade☹️
 
I find it appalling how some posters jumped on the stereotypical view of Liverpool fans behaving badly before any evidence was forthcoming one way or another. Hockaday’s Quiff‘s post was spot on regarding last nights events, as he was fackin there! and tallys with all the first hand experiences I’ve read and heard today.
I’ve noticed a few of the anti-scouse howlers have uturned as the day has progressed, premature exasperators!
 
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