CL Final Trouble

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Old_Laytonian said:
Were Liverpool fans to blame for the trouble at the Euros Final which has resulted in England having to play behind closed doors?
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Is that a rhetorical question?

I've no idea, but I imagine as it was England fans it was a combination of fans from many teams.
 
Looks like a bit of both to me.

Fans without tickets climbing fences and getting in, not good.
Innocent fans waiting for 3 hours to get in, and not getting in, and getting pepper sprayed. Not good. It’s this latter bunch I really feel for. The first bunch ruin it for everyone.

Reports verify that the organisation was a shambles, again not good. But still no excuse for ticketless fans to be running wild over fences.

What a mess and a shame.
 
Wizzerboy said:
Apart from the ones who bought dodgy tickets and some who tried to get in without tickets so basically ** it up for every other liverpool supporter who went down the correct routes
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If I was a Liverpool supporter (or a supporter of any Euro-Cup qualifying club) I would not spend money to travel abroad in the hope of finding a ticket.
Forged tickets come from copying originals. They will have been made in the UK and distributed/sold in Liverpool in this case. Easy to believe?
And yes, you are dead right on it cocking up the stadium system and spoiling it for honest supporters!
 
Walthamstow_Seasider said:
Exactly, in these situations I always like to refer to the AVFTT "usual suspects" and their 20/20 vision from the comfort of their sofas.
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Did 100,000 Rangers fans go there with forged tickets or ticketless and cause problems trying to access the ground in Seville. Nope, I don't think so. Did the Real Madrid fans have any problems? Again, don't think so, Ask yourself why it's a recurring theme with Liverpool fans. Let's face it, it was pretty easy to predict that there would be problems. Why? Because there always is with Liverpool fans. Face up to the reality.
 
Raging_Bull said:
36 years on from Heysel and once more UEFA and European police show that between them they still cannot run a bath.

Mind you after Hillsborough, Heysel and now Paris, the common theme seems to be the same club.

Coincidence?🤔
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Well, the same club are getting to these finals. Maybe it would be another club, if any were quite as successful?
 
20togo said:
Did 100,000 Rangers fans go there with forged tickets or ticketless and cause problems trying to access the ground in Seville. Nope, I don't think so. Did the Real Madrid fans have any problems? Again, don't think so, Ask yourself why it's a recurring theme with Liverpool fans. Let's face it, it was pretty easy to predict that there would be problems. Why? Because there always is with Liverpool fans. Face up to the reality.
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I'm not sure Rangers are the best example given the events in Manchester in 2008.
 
Loco said:
Well, the same club are getting to these finals. Maybe it would be another club, if any were quite as successful?
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Ah right, so Chelsea, Arsenal, Man U , Man C and Spurs haven't got to finals then? Were there problems with those teams fans trying to access grounds with forged tickets or even ticketless fans. So not the same club at all! Are you a bit of a closet LFC fan? That's not a problem ,btw.
 
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20togo said:
Those events were based around what happened in the city itself. Not about ticketless fans or forged tickets trying to get into the ground. My issue issolely about that and as I say it's a recurring theme with Liverpool fans. A significant number of fans want to cause problems for those fans who have tickets.
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Ah, I didn't realise you were being so specific, that's ok then.

Because without the exacting specifics it's a bit bollocks.

talksport.com

Chelsea and Man City fans involved in violent clashes with police in Porto

Chelsea and Manchester City fans clashed with police on Thursday night in Porto before the Champions League final on Saturday. Portuguese authorities have enforced a strict 10.30pm bar curfew to co…
talksport.com talksport.com

www.thesun.co.uk

Nine arrested and three police officers injured as Spurs and Ajax fans clash in violent scenes

NINE fans were arrested and three police officers were injured after violent clashes between Tottenham and Ajax supporters. Rival fans squared off in the streets before and after the Champions Leag…
www.thesun.co.uk www.thesun.co.uk
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
Ah, I didn't realise you were being so specific, that's ok then.

Because without the exacting specifics it's a bit bollocks.

talksport.com

Chelsea and Man City fans involved in violent clashes with police in Porto

Chelsea and Manchester City fans clashed with police on Thursday night in Porto before the Champions League final on Saturday. Portuguese authorities have enforced a strict 10.30pm bar curfew to co…
talksport.com talksport.com

www.thesun.co.uk

Nine arrested and three police officers injured as Spurs and Ajax fans clash in violent scenes

NINE fans were arrested and three police officers were injured after violent clashes between Tottenham and Ajax supporters. Rival fans squared off in the streets before and after the Champions Leag…
www.thesun.co.uk www.thesun.co.uk
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Yep, was being specific. Always have been. But carry on from deflecting away from that if you wish.
 
20togo said:
Yep, was being specific. Always have been. But carry on from deflecting away from that if you wish.
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Ok, if you're sure 😅

(Because to the casual reader it just sounded like an anti Liverpool rant, just the same as your posts on the other thread, as long as you're being specific in claiming that all other fans are as good as gold abroad, it's JUST around ticketing and 100 yards of the stadium, so that clears that up)

Have a great day 20s 👍
 
Lytham_fy8 said:
Ok, if you're sure 😅

(Because to the casual reader it just sounded like an anti Liverpool rant, just the same as your posts on the other thread, as long as you're being specific in claiming that all other fans are as good as gold abroad, it's JUST around ticketing and 100 yards of the stadium, so that clears that up)

Have a great day 20s 👍
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yep, very sure. Actual hooliganism from many clubs fans is still very rife in the game.
 
Raging_Bull said:
Trouble can happen anywhere to any fans but anyone who doesn't admit there is a recurring theme involving Liverpool should be "ostrichsized" 🤔
View attachment 11158
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Talking of heads in the sand, it's nice of you to throw Hillsborough in to the mix in your OP, it reassuring that despite the literal hundreds of thousands of pages of evidence proving otherwise some of you still cling to that fading candle of the police's version of events 👍

Do you have a newsletter?
 
They're a successful club that get to a lot of big games. I've no doubt fake tickets were part of the issue but when there is that amount of issues, probably only a small part. UEFA have been cocking things up for years and police on the continent need little excuse to tear gas the English(or Scouse). There are plenty of videos of Madrid fans climbing over gates/fences, I've yet to see one of their fans being tear gassed yet.
 
Raging_Bull said:
36 years on from Heysel and once more UEFA and European police show that between them they still cannot run a bath.

Mind you after Hillsborough, Heysel and now Paris, the common theme seems to be the same club.

Coincidence?🤔
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Absolute delusion if you think the only teams fans that ever causes trouble at football games is Liverpool 🤣🤣🤣

Has there never been any trouble at a football match that wasn't involving Liverpool fans? Ofcourse there has!

The trouble is, loads of thick angry cunts like football, and want to do all sorts of thick angry ** things at the football, usually at the expense of the majority of well behaved normal people who also like football.

You can blame the police as well but they probably are just doing their best with the tools that they have against a culture that heavily demonises them whilst always being vastly outnumbered and probably fearing for their own lives.
 
FY8, I like most people have seen enough documentaries and read enough evidence to realise that the police at Hillsborough were a total disgrace to their uniforms and the management of the game by senior officers at that game was criminal to say the least. However fans are still turning up hoping to get access to the ground by fair means or foul and bearong in mind what happened in the past people seem to be unable to learn lessons.
 
At some point you have throw blame the fans turning up who aren't getting in for causing potential issues.

If 10k of us turned up at PNE who didn't have tickets and caused issues its the 10k to blame.
 
Raging_Bull said:
Did I say they were the "only" ones? Trouble does seem to follow that club in big games, and that is an uncomfortable fact whichever way you look at it.
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You could look at absolutely any team pretty much and pinpoint more than 1 event for each where a few idiot "fans" have caused trouble and therefore say "ooo look they're at it again"
 
There's no question the blame sits with many people here and the victims quite often are innocent football fans who have shelled out a fortune to acquire legitimate tickets and expensive travel and accommodation costs.

The military style police on the continent are renowned for being heavy handed with football fans, when do you ever hear of any officers being arrested for dishing out violence to innocent people? Never. UEFA and their ticketing policy has been a problem now for many years, and they don't seem to do a thing about it. Any event where tickets are like gold dust are going to attract the scammers churning out their fake tickets, if fans buy tickets off unofficial sources then they can expect problems down the line. Finally fans turning up without any tickets and trying to "jib" in the ground, certain clubs are renowned for having a lot of fans who fall in to this category, add all these problems together and you end up with what happened last night and what's happened on previous occasions.
 
Half the problem is us Brits(not all) like to get pissed at football or at the very least have a few pints and with the KO being 8p.m some will have been on the sauce all day.
 
JJpool said:
At some point you have throw blame the fans turning up who aren't getting in for causing potential issues.

If 10k of us turned up at PNE who didn't have tickets and caused issues its the 10k to blame.
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Yeah, but also at that very game both home and away we had the police create an absolute mess, as we also had at several home games that didn't seem particularly fiery including bizarrely kettling people leaving the south stand for absolutely no purpose at all. We were all outraged.

It's not beyond the wit of man to imagine that if Lancs police can fuck up policing a relatively small number of fans then it's possible that policing plays a large part here too.

I can't stand Liverpool. I really can't. But it's also true that the policing of football matches is problematic and even truer that event like this are becoming further and further out of reach of fans in general as they become ever more expensive and ever more liggers are getting tickets and they resemble more of a corporate shindig than a game of football.

That shit grates on me as much as Liverpool do. In fact more so.
 
Loco said:
Maybe you'd like to read this and reflect on the points made?
metro.co.uk

The real story of the UEFA Champions League final carnage Liverpool fans faced

A first-hand account of the dangerous crowd control at the Stade de France.
metro.co.uk metro.co.uk
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That so many immediately fall into line with the authorities’ lies on the juvenile and outright pathetic basis of tribal football rivalry is why police forces and governments are able to demean, disrespect, and harm football supporters with such regularity in France, the UK, the rest of Europe and beyond.

There seems to be a lot of that one here.

It seems to me from the reports I've read that this is 100% on the authorities.
 
td53 said:
Yeah, but also at that very game both home and away we had the police create an absolute mess, as we also had at several home games that didn't seem particularly fiery including bizarrely kettling people leaving the south stand for absolutely no purpose at all. We were all outraged.

It's not beyond the wit of man to imagine that if Lancs police can fuck up policing a relatively small number of fans then it's possible that policing plays a large part here too.

I can't stand Liverpool. I really can't. But it's also true that the policing of football matches is problematic and even truer that event like this are becoming further and further out of reach of fans in general as they become ever more expensive and ever more liggers are getting tickets and they resemble more of a corporate shindig than a game of football.

That shit grates on me as much as Liverpool do. In fact more so.
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Yes but there wasn't thousands of ticket less fans at those games, thats just pure incompetence from lancs police.

I've no doubt that things are organised poorly and police use heavy handed tactics abroad and poor ones in this country too at times.

But if many fans don't turn up and try and blag their way in or climb things, the whole situation is made a lot easier.
 
Having seen some of the coverage & listened to reporting, it appears that most of the gate rushing was "local" youths.

That said many of us have been to games & got in without tickets or with fakes (2006 Cologne for me), it is unfair to suggest that Liverpool is the common thread in all these events which they are involved with. The authorities for some reason don`t appear on the initial view to have got their cordons in place correctly?

No doubt they will use the party line to suggest the blame lies with football supporters not the organisation.
 
I don’t know the full story yet, but I’ll hear it next week. My 74 year old father in law, 55 yr brother in law and niece all had official tickets and travelled on official coaches.
Got to ground well in advance (2hours). Brother in law refused entry, no idea why yet?
They were all walking back to the coach and decided to give it another go. They got in, albeit just before half time.
I imagine the blame lays with a mix of idiotic fans, over aggressive police and under pressure stewards. No doubt everything will come to light this week.
 
JJpool said:
Yes but there wasn't thousands of ticket less fans at those games, thats just pure incompetence from lancs police.

I've no doubt that things are organised poorly and police use heavy handed tactics abroad and poor ones in this country too at times.

But if many fans don't turn up and try and blag their way in or climb things, the whole situation is made a lot easier.
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But of course that happens. It's part of the event. People have tried to jib in to events for ever and ever and ever.

My point is - if police can screw up policing relatively easy things then they can screw up policing more complex things.

People being crushed outside a ground, a lack of communication. Stewards downing tools and walking off the job.

It sounds to me like the cheapest possible security with minimal experience were employed for tbe occasion. Millions will have been spent on pre match shows and fireworks, millions spent on corporate hospitality and so on. Stewarding the actual fans who turned up was done on the cheap.

Fans are almost an inconvenience to events like this now.
 
Lala said:
Looks like a bit of both to me.

Fans without tickets climbing fences and getting in, not good.
Innocent fans waiting for 3 hours to get in, and not getting in, and getting pepper sprayed. Not good. It’s this latter bunch I really feel for. The first bunch ruin it for everyone.

Reports verify that the organisation was a shambles, again not good. But still no excuse for ticketless fans to be running wild over fences.

What a mess and a shame.
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Was it run by Lancashire constabulary?
 
20togo said:
ask yourself why there seemed to be no problems at the other end of the stadium. I can't put a definitive number on ticket less fans or those with forged tickets but I'd suggest it was a significant number to be able to cause the problems that it did.
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It’s always a few who spoil it for everyone else,On this occasion it looks like the police was mainly at fault.Lets hope the Qatar World Cup is better organised.
 
Raging_Bull said:
FY8, I like most people have seen enough documentaries and read enough evidence to realise that the police at Hillsborough were a total disgrace to their uniforms and the management of the game by senior officers at that game was criminal to say the least. However fans are still turning up hoping to get access to the ground by fair means or foul and bearong in mind what happened in the past people seem to be unable to learn lessons.
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Ok, enjoy the newsletter 👍
 
Bandagem said:
I don’t know the full story yet, but I’ll hear it next week. My 74 year old father in law, 55 yr brother in law and niece all had official tickets and travelled on official coaches.
Got to ground well in advance (2hours). Brother in law refused entry, no idea why yet?
They were all walking back to the coach and decided to give it another go. They got in, albeit just before half time.
I imagine the blame lays with a mix of idiotic fans, over aggressive police and under pressure stewards. No doubt everything will come to light this week.
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Andy Robertson had got a ticket for a pal was stopped from going in and was told it was a fake when it clearly wasn't so it seems they had many problems at the gate.
 
20togo said:
ask yourself why there seemed to be no problems at the other end of the stadium. I can't put a definitive number on ticket less fans or those with forged tickets but I'd suggest it was a significant number to be able to cause the problems that it did.
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Ask yourself why we have had issues this season without any ticketless fans at all?

When I spent 25 minutes outside the south stand people were able to exit the west with no issue. Does that mean the fans in the south were to blame?

Preston fans were able to exit Deepdale with no issues. We were not. Is that thus our fault?

And yes, I realise exiting is different from entering but it demonstrates a simple point - policing/stewarding does not always impact all parts of the ground the same.

I'm not trying to claim that no one turned up without a ticket - but that's not exactly a surprise when it's the showpiece of the year.

The UEFA cup final was an absolute shambles as well. Basic provisions we're not made. No ** water in the stadium. Was that Rangers fans fault? Had some crazed scots run in and stolen all the water? Of course not. This final was a shambles too.

These are multi million pound events that people spend huge amounts to attend and get treated worse than cattle at. I have no doubt there were some scallies about but that is all part of the job of staging the event and it's not as if there is a lack of money in the game to invest in such things.
 
td53 said:
Ask yourself why we have had issues this season without any ticketless fans at all?

When I spent 25 minutes outside the south stand people were able to exit the west with no issue. Does that mean the fans in the south were to blame?

Preston fans were able to exit Deepdale with no issues. We were not. Is that thus our fault?

And yes, I realise exiting is different from entering but it demonstrates a simple point - policing/stewarding does not always impact all parts of the ground the same.

I'm not trying to claim that no one turned up without a ticket - but that's not exactly a surprise when it's the showpiece of the year.

The UEFA cup final was an absolute shambles as well. Basic provisions we're not made. No ** water in the stadium. Was that Rangers fans fault? Had some crazed scots run in and stolen all the water? Of course not. This final was a shambles too.

These are multi million pound events that people spend huge amounts to attend and get treated worse than cattle at. I have no doubt there were some scallies about but that is all part of the job of staging the event and it's not as if there is a lack of money in the game to invest in such things.
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Really don't get your point about exiting the stadium. They clearly had tickets. And for me you really understate your point "there were some scallies about" Hey, what's the problem with a few scallies being about? Well clearly it was a problem.
 
Preston away wasn't even bad, there are some sheltered individuals 😆
 
Bts70 said:
Having seen some of the coverage & listened to reporting, it appears that most of the gate rushing was "local" youths.
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Yep, that was noted by Henry Winter on 5 Live this morning.
The locals clearly knew the stadium setup and organisation was crap and they would have a good chance of getting in.

Winter also mentioned inadequate outer cordon to check tickets, spectator access to the Liverpool end not as straightforward as at the Madrid end, and fans being funnelled into smaller, tighter spaces.

It's a bloody great mess.
And a minor miracle that there wasn't a tragedy.
 
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