Class war if you want to improve your wages.Hundreds of them picketing the Old Bailey tomorrow by all accounts! Cripes things really are going bonkers.
Things are getting rather odd.Class war if you want to improve your wages.
First I wasn’t a barrister.So that’s where Mex is.
What are the rates they are on Mex ?First I wasn’t a barrister.
Secondly I didn’t do criminal defence work for the same reason these lads and lasses are protesting. No money in it.
Not being involved in the field I don’t know to be frank. But anecdotally a young barrister 3 years qualified, and after he/she has contributed to Chambers expenses, is supposed to be on about £12k pa. So not the “fat cat” lawyer beloved of the media.What are the rates they are on Mex ?
You need to look at this a bit more closely.The barristers who I have met are very wealthy people, and for anyone who has tried to hire one to defend them, they certainly don't come cheap. Their huge charges can & do deter some individuals from taking their case to the crown court.
Why anyone would go through the several years of study / pupillage and toil they do to become a barrister, only then to quit because their salary (which they knew before going down that path) isn't high enough, is quite baffling.
Thanks PB. However, it's not a group of people who I empathise with and was only paying passing attention to the post.You need to look at this a bit more closely.
The fact is that the ones leaving the criminal justice sector are those undergoing pupillage and junior qualifieds as they cannot live on the fees from legal aid, and that then deters newcomers.
If you want to hire one privately, that is a different story and not the issue here.
Vast majority of criminal legal aid barristers dont work on private fees but on legal aid.The barristers who I have met are very wealthy people, and for anyone who has tried to hire one to defend them, they certainly don't come cheap. Their huge charges can & do deter some individuals from taking their case to the crown court.
Why anyone would go through the several years of study / pupillage and toil they do to become a barrister, only then to quit because their salary (which they knew before going down that path) isn't high enough, is quite baffling.
Don’t comment on something you know very little about so obnoxiously then.Thanks PB. However, it's not a group of people who I empathise with and was only paying passing attention to the post.
I can comment how I like, and who appointed you as the AVFTT policing dept?Don’t comment on something you know very little about so obnoxiously then.
Obnoxious ?? Get a lifeDon’t comment on something you know very little about so obnoxiously then.
A full day in Crown Court for a Barrister is £126 fixed fee. Deduct, expenses, travel, chambers fees, tax and NI. I earned more in a few hours as a DJ.What are the rates they are onA full day in court Mex ?
I think you are quite right to discourage him from criminal fence work Tim. Now criminal defence work may be another matter.You only have to read a couple of chapters of the Secret Barrister to get the flavour
My son is a law student and criminal fence work is the only sector I would actively discourage him getting involved in
Like Mex we cut criminal work from our services perhaps 20 years ago
Some make it pay but the perception I have is that's it's a slog and the junior bar bears the brunt
They are on about 100 a day less than your average plumber apparently.
Both worthy jobs but these criminal defence lawyers dont seem to be rewarded well.
That said they have been offered a 15% pay rise which flies in the face of what the rest of government workers will be getting.
My dad actively discouraged me from becoming a plumber like him, he said my knees would be worn out in no time.How do I become a plumber ?
It won't hold water.How do I become a plumber ?
If only they could get a free tree house. No strings attached, obviously.Aside from your health your liberty is the next most important thing you have because it affects your ability to work provide your family with a home etc etc
These people are doing an incredibly important job for peanuts.
They could quit work altogether and get a free house if Bojo’s latest vote winning scheme comes to fruitionIf only they could get a free tree house. No strings attached, obviously.
Some build up their practice well and gradually become increase their fee rates and earn very good money. Others are not so fortunate and given the poor wages at the beginning are not able to ride out the early years and move out of the profession.The barristers who I have met are very wealthy people, and for anyone who has tried to hire one to defend them, they certainly don't come cheap. Their huge charges can & do deter some individuals from taking their case to the crown court.
Why anyone would go through the several years of study / pupillage and toil they do to become a barrister, only then to quit because their salary (which they knew before going down that path) isn't high enough, is quite baffling.
You’re right so far as barristers who act privately for clients are concerned. The clients pay and the price is negotiated (or the client just pays what’s asked for if he wants a particularly sought after barrister).Some build up their practice well and gradually become increase their fee rates and earn very good money. Others are not so fortunate and given the poor wages at the beginning are not able to ride out the early years and move out of the profession.
It’s a bit like footballers. Some progress and some don’t and it’s down to a combination of ability, reputation and to some extent connections.
And train workers !They are on about 100 a day less than your average plumber apparently.
Both worthy jobs but these criminal defence lawyers dont seem to be rewarded well.
That said they have been offered a 15% pay rise which flies in the face of what the rest of government workers will be getting.
Yes I agree and the amounts payable to Criminal Barristers are derisory. The protest is a just one.You’re right so far as barristers who act privately for clients are concerned. The clients pay and the price is negotiated (or the client just pays what’s asked for if he wants a particularly sought after barrister).
This dispute is about clients who have been charged with criminal offences who rely on legal aid. There the fees are fixed by the state: no negotiation. And the fees have been whittled away in real terms over the last two decades.
Which is why criminal lawyers have turned, and will continue to turn, to practice areas other than crime. Carve out a niche that serves mostly the rich people. Make a reputation for yourself in that field (exactly as you say) and yes you can make a very good living.
But there are repercussions for wider society.
This is a Government lie. It’s 15% in over 12 months time. The way they are structuring it it’s less than 9%. There hasn’t been a single penny increase since 1997. There’s no other public service that has had no pay increase for 25 years!They are on about 100 a day less than your average plumber apparently.
Both worthy jobs but these criminal defence lawyers dont seem to be rewarded well.
That said they have been offered a 15% pay rise which flies in the face of what the rest of government workers will be getting.
No it’s not. All legal aid rates are based on fixed fees calculated in a fairly complex way. The only profitable way to run a case load is by volume It’s hard work. Read the secret barrister the justice system is in complete meltdownSome build up their practice well and gradually become increase their fee rates and earn very good money. Others are not so fortunate and given the poor wages at the beginning are not able to ride out the early years and move out of the profession.
It’s a bit like footballers. Some progress and some don’t and it’s down to a combination of ability, reputation and to some extent connections.
By way of analogy the civil legal aid rates paid are lower now than when I came into the profession 33 years agoYou’re right so far as barristers who act privately for clients are concerned. The clients pay and the price is negotiated (or the client just pays what’s asked for if he wants a particularly sought after barrister).
This dispute is about clients who have been charged with criminal offences who rely on legal aid. There the fees are fixed by the state: no negotiation. And the fees have been whittled away in real terms over the last two decades.
Which is why criminal lawyers have turned, and will continue to turn, to practice areas other than crime. Carve out a niche that serves mostly the rich people. Make a reputation for yourself in that field (exactly as you say) and yes you can make a very good living.
But there are repercussions for wider society.
That's fine until we find there is no one left !If you don't like it, get out. Lazy idol buggers.
I chose to work away from home, not because i wanted too but for the financial stability it gave my family. If the caps doesn't fit,don't wear it.That's fine until we find there is no one left !
See Tigger's post above regarding the age demographic of duty solicitors
After studying and running up a substantial student loan what you expect is going to happen if you have a choice of undertaking criminal work often earning less than NMW or pursuing far more stable and more remunerative employment elsewhere ?
Junior doctors are threatening to strike over pay and they certainly earn significantly more than a barrister / solicitor undertaking criminal legal aid work
I know that Criminal Barrister rates are poor and the system has been broken for years. A lot of the work is done by very junior barristers and they don’t stay long before converting to civil or getting out completely. Others jump ship and move to the CPS.No it’s not. All legal aid rates are based on fixed fees calculated in a fairly complex way. The only profitable way to run a case load is by volume It’s hard work. Read the secret barrister the justice system is in complete meltdown
Surely it should be a wig not a cap !I chose to work away from home, not because i wanted too but for the financial stability it gave my family. If the caps doesn't fit,don't wear it.
Criminal barristers versus Civil Barristers is chalk and cheese. One pays and the other doesn’t. You apply to chambers and hope to get in but then you have little say over what work the clerks give you initially.I really can't understand why people choose professions and then complain about it. It's akin to becoming a carer thinking that you'll earn mega bucks.
Most are not rich mate. I wouldn't be surprised if some of them were going to foodbanks.They look greedy to me. The barrister on good morning Britain says that 15% is not enough for the conditions they have to endure . What are these terrible conditions these rich people have to endure. Is it because they have to come across criminals that most are committing their crimes because they have lost their jobs or are so poorly paid they have to go to food banks. Or is it because their paperwork is a bit heavy. Why 15% plus ? 9% is the inflation rate and if there was a problem with Legal Aid ,should they not have gone on strike earlier.
Completely agree. If they don’t get a brief they don’t get paid. There is no salary or sick pay etc.Most are not rich mate. I wouldn't be surprised if some of them were going to foodbanks.