So Why are People Racist?

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1950`spoolfan

Well-known member
There is always plenty of discussion and accusations about what is racism and who is racist but you rarely hear debate about why is there racism, and if so is there ever any understanding of or even any justification for discrimination of this sort? People seem ill at ease or even afraid of addressing this issue.Political correctness often seems to prevent honest debate on sensitive issues where a more open approach may actually help to find some resolution to very difficult subjects rather than hiding from them and leaving them to fester.

Is it because perhaps many are more comfortable with those who are most similar to themselves and are therefore less tolerant of or comfortable with those who are more dissimilar to them?

Is it an inevitable unavoidable instinctive knee jerk human response for many perhaps?

I am neither trying to justify nor condemn but rather to understand because when attempting to deal with what most would regard as a serious problem the first need is to understand its root causes and origins that in this case rarely seem to be aired, which may well be exacerbating the problem rather than helping to resolve it.

We are all members of the human race so what do others think are the root causes of racism?
 
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Just my opinion, and I can only talk about over here in England, and I’ll hold my hand up and be as guilty as others when it comes to this....

*** The following applies to the stubborn older generation of migrants. ***
Whilst I don’t condone violence , and can never understand why the human race can be so hurtful to others, the one thing I feel offended by are the masses that have migrated to our little island, refuse to speak ( or even attempt to learn ) our language .. ( at least that way we could at least try to at least communicate ) and then they practice their homelands ways ( religion etc.. ).

If they feel so strongly and won’t adopt our way of living ,I feel they should return to their homelands.
 
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TangerineSeasider said:
Just my opinion, and I can only talk about over here in England, and I’ll hold my hand up and be as guilty as others.

The following applies to the stubborn older generation of migrants. !!!
Whilst I don’t condone violence , and can never understand why the human race can be so hurtful to others, the one thing I feel offended by are the masses that have migrated to our little island, refuse to speak ( or even attempt to learn ) our language .. ( so we could at least try to communicate ) and practice their homelands ways ( religion etc.. ).

If they feel so strongly and won’t adopt our way of living ,they should return to their homelands.
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Your in trouble now 🙈, I often wonder if our country is so racist and the people here are so hurtful why do so many people still stream across the channel to get here ?
 
Scaramanga said:
Your in trouble now 🙈, I often wonder if our country is so racist and the people here are so hurtful why do so many people still stream across the channel to get here ?
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I probably am in need of donning a tin hat , but I only expressed my feelings of what others are thinking.
 
It’s an interesting & fair question. I believe that one cause is an innate tribal instinct, stronger in some than others.

To step outside the minefield of politics, I think this can most easily be illustrated in a sporting context. For example, Blackpool dislikes Preston & Bolton, but will join together when Lancashire face Yorkshire (Similarly Leeds, Bradford & Sheffield will set aside their rivalries to support Yorkshire). Lancashire & Yorkshire will however unite in a North v South scenario, whilst North & South will happily join forces to back England against Germany....

This need to belong, to unite against a perceived common ‘enemy’ appears to me to be a strong driver. Again, I’m not condoning or condemning it, but simply offering a response to the o/p’s question.
 
Bluecabinboy said:
It’s an interesting & fair question. I believe that one cause is an innate tribal instinct, stronger in some than others.

To step outside the minefield of politics, I think this can most easily be illustrated in a sporting context. For example, Blackpool dislikes Preston & Bolton, but will join together when Lancashire face Yorkshire (Similarly Leeds, Bradford & Sheffield will set aside their rivalries to support Yorkshire). Lancashire & Yorkshire will however unite in a North v South scenario, whilst North & South will happily join forces to back England against Germany....

This need to belong, to unite against a perceived common ‘enemy’ appears to me to be a strong driver. Again, I’m not condoning or condemning it, but simply offering a response to the o/p’s question.
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Ive never thought of it like that. Well put👍
 
Lack of education, historical stereotyping and the divide and rule aspect. E.g.. rich man has a thousand gold bars, he gives one to a poor man (after lots of work) and then points at the brown person and says 'watch out he's after your gold bar' You've got the likes of Trump & Farage who openly exploit that with the white working class, who unfortunately seem to lap it up.
 
Bluecabinboy said:
It’s an interesting & fair question. I believe that one cause is an innate tribal instinct, stronger in some than others.

To step outside the minefield of politics, I think this can most easily be illustrated in a sporting context. For example, Blackpool dislikes Preston & Bolton, but will join together when Lancashire face Yorkshire (Similarly Leeds, Bradford & Sheffield will set aside their rivalries to support Yorkshire). Lancashire & Yorkshire will however unite in a North v South scenario, whilst North & South will happily join forces to back England against Germany....

This need to belong, to unite against a perceived common ‘enemy’ appears to me to be a strong driver. Again, I’m not condoning or condemning it, but simply offering a response to the o/p’s question.
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Tribalism is certainly one reason I agree.

It’s perfectly understandable for a person to feel more comfortable in the company of people who share the same language, culture, history etc.

The downside is when people start to believe their “tribe” is inherently superior to the others.
 
Shandypants said:
Lack of education, historical stereotyping and the divide and rule aspect. E.g.. rich man has a thousand gold bars, he gives one to a poor man (after lots of work) and then points at the brown person and says 'watch out he's after your gold bar' You've got the likes of Trump & Farage who openly exploit that with the white working class, who unfortunately seem to lap it up.
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Very good example of the divide and rule issue. It certainly worked very well in the southern states of the US in particular where, no matter how poor they were, the impoverished whites could console themselves by believing there was still one group they were superior to. Instead of asking the blindingly obvious question - “is it fair that person has 99 gold bars and we’re squabbling over one?”
 
I think the word racist is used far too commonly today for something it’s not.

People who want tighter border controls and kerb immigration are not racists but unfortunately today it’s a term they have have been tarnished with and its pathetic.

And for the record Racism is about there is no doubt about it but you don’t become a racist for wanting better border control.
 
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Old_Laytonian said:
Ignorance and fear
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Yep. Coupled with stereotyping - this group are all lazy; this group are all fanatics; this group are all benefit scroungers, after my hard earned money. That sort of thinking.

And then along comes covid19 and shows, for instance, just how reliant the NHS is on immigrants and foreigners. And yet some still cling to the “they’re all queuing up to cross the channel” narrative.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Yep. Coupled with stereotyping - this group are all lazy; this group are all fanatics; this group are all benefit scroungers, after my hard earned money. That sort of thinking.

And then along comes covid19 and shows, for instance, just how reliant the NHS is on immigrants and foreigners. And yet some still cling to the “they’re all queuing up to cross the channel” narrative.
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If they were all doctors nurses and other professionals then surely France wouldn’t be turning a blind eye to them leaving their shores?
 
I think 99% of us couldn’t give a monkeys about colour or sexual orientation, especially living on the Fylde coast where it’s mainly white anyway....
Obviously somewhere like London is like a diff country, where it’s clearly much more of an issue....
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
I think the word racist is used far too commonly today for something it’s not.

People who want tighter border controls and kerb immigration are not racists but unfortunately today it’s a term they have have been tarnished with and its pathetic.

And for the record Racism is about there is no doubt about it but you don’t become a racist for wanting better border control.
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It’s certainly true that not everyone who wants
stronger border controls is a racist.

However it’s also a fair bet that all racists will want stronger border controls.

And it’s then easier for the racists to hide in the crowd and pretend they aren’t.
 
What a great thread. I have thought for many years that a big percentage of what is classed as racism is actually xenophobia, brilliantly described by BlueCabinBoy above, we are more comfortable with those whose life experience we share, it's our safe zone.

True racism seems to be both what is mentioned above in terms of "at least I'm better than them" and also where the world view of a race is outside another group's understanding. An example of this might be Chinese racism to the west, they regard us as a very new civilisation, where they have a much older one with greater wisdom.

It's also a lazy way of stopping an argument. It reminds me of that film, Invasion of the body snatchers, when the snatched all turn on anyone not like them, making that awful ululating noise.
 
As someone above mentions Nigel Farage as being a racist all I can say is in the 2015 general election his then party (UKIP) pulled in almost 4 million voters so based on comments on here we have one hell of a lot of racists in this country and it’s a bigger problem than we all think. 🙄
 
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In Sapiens it was contended that the move from foraging society to farming was one of the great catalysts in tribalism and racism.
Our ancestors out of Africa were aggressive though even pre-farming era in the slaughter of the other human species on the earth we encountered.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
As someone above mentions Nigel Farage as being a racist all I can say is in the 2015 general election his then party (UKIP) pulled in almost 4 million voters so based on comments on here we have one hell of a lot of racists in this country and it’s a bigger problem than we all think. 🙄
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A fair few of those people who voted for Farage will believe themselves to not be racist but will no doubt have racist attitudes that they themselves don't recognise. The challenge is to get these people to understand these underlying attitudes and and address them - they are in the main decent people but don't understand the effect their attitudes have.

The out and out racists(though there are a few on here) have declined which is good news but latent (and unthinking racism) is still a problem and needs addressing.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Tribalism is certainly one reason I agree.

It’s perfectly understandable for a person to feel more comfortable in the company of people who share the same language, culture, history etc.

The downside is when people start to believe their “tribe” is inherently superior to the others.
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The whole of India is based on the 'cast' system is it not? That's part of their culture which seems not to be relevant or challenged over here. Why?
 
bollieboy said:
20's - read up about Britain and the Indian caste system.
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Look, I've no problem admitting I'm pretty ignorant on a lot of this stuff and I'm not gonna get into lengthy debates on it all but if Britain had a negative affect on the caste system back in the 19th century then as we no longer ae involved are they not capable of reverting it back to what it was? Or does that not suit those who have benefitted from it?

I'll read your response and pretty much accept what you say because like I say I know pretty much nothing about it whatsoever.
 
I worked with a guy from a Pakistani heritage and he used to look down on people from Bangledesh. Didn't like them at all, I think a lot of this comes down to trying to feel superior to something. I'm sure Bangedeshi's look down on someone? That's why i think white working class are often overtly racist, it's an easy way to feel superior
 
20togo said:
The whole of India is based on the 'cast' system is it not? That's part of their culture which seems not to be relevant or challenged over here. Why?
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Because most non Indian Brits are completely unaware of the caste system I suppose. If they did I imagine most would identify a lot of similarities between racism, the caste system and the English class system. Or, as you often get on here, a distinction between the “deserving working class” and the scummy chavs. An unwarranted sense of superiority; the despising of what is perceived to be an inherently inferior group; the attribution of the same characteristics to that “inferior” group (lazy, feckless, fanatics).

In short people across the world just seem to need someone else or another group to look down on. It may just be that race, along with class, is a hook to hang the hatred on.
 
west_paddock_casualret said:
Maybe cos people are fed up hearing black this black that , not enough back footballers not enough black managers not enough black window cleaners not enough black weathermen not enough black presenters, us blacks are hard done by ffs nobody apart from black people give a fuck about colour were all fuckin human at the end of the day, it’s all bull shit and now with all this BLM prople have just had enough. I’d say to anyone if they don’t likr our country then do one, it does not matter whether they are blue ,pink ,white ,green orange or purple fuckin spotted we are what we fuckin are, Prejudice in any form is wrong and there is a lot of worse prejudice goin on in the world.
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John 11:35
 
20togo said:
Look, I've no problem admitting I'm pretty ignorant on a lot of this stuff and I'm not gonna get into lengthy debates on it all but if Britain had a negative affect on the caste system back in the 19th century then as we no longer ae involved are they not capable of reverting it back to what it was? Or does that not suit those who have benefitted from it?

I'll read your response and pretty much accept what you say because like I say I know pretty much nothing about it whatsoever.
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20's - in answer to your question the caste system has been made illegal in India. Despite that its historical influence is still pervasive and a lot is still required to remove prevailing prejudice. As you infer there are certainly parallels with racism in the UK.
 
Mexboroseasider said:
Because most non Indian Brits are completely unaware of the caste system I suppose. If they did I imagine most would identify a lot of similarities between racism, the caste system and the English class system. Or, as you often get on here, a distinction between the “deserving working class” and the scummy chavs. An unwarranted sense of superiority; the despising of what is perceived to be an inherently inferior group; the attribution of the same characteristics to that “inferior” group (lazy, feckless, fanatics).

In short people across the world just seem to need someone else or another group to look down on. It may just be that race, along with class, is a hook to hang the hatred on.
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Yes, thanks for that Mex. I think that's an excellent summary. So whether it's racism or whatever other term you want to call it, I think as a principle it's wrong. But as much as we should have principles, life is just not like that and it's inherent in human nature to in some ways look down on people for whatever reason. Shandys post has just proven that as he clearly looks down on WPC. So people can protest as much as they like and indeed it will do a lot of good but ultimately as long as man walks the planet there will always be discrimination of some sort.
 
west_paddock_casualret said:
Maybe cos people are fed up hearing black this black that , not enough back footballers not enough black managers not enough black window cleaners not enough black weathermen not enough black presenters, us blacks are hard done by ffs nobody apart from black people give a fuck about colour were all fuckin human at the end of the day, it’s all bull shit and now with all this BLM prople have just had enough. I’d say to anyone if they don’t likr our country then do one, it does not matter whether they are blue ,pink ,white ,green orange or purple fuckin spotted we are what we fuckin are, Prejudice in any form is wrong and there is a lot of worse prejudice goin on in the world.
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And just when you think WPC can’t get any lower.☹️
 
bollieboy said:
20's - in answer to your question the caste system has been made illegal in India. Despite that its historical influence is still pervasive and a lot is still required to remove prevailing prejudice. As you infer there are certainly parallels with racism in the UK.
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cheers Bollie and I agree with your last sentence. I do also make a point covering the rest of your post in reply to Mex.
 
20togo said:
Yes, thanks for that Mex. I think that's an excellent summary. So whether it's racism or whatever other term you want to call it, I think as a principle it's wrong. But as much as we should have principles, life is just not like that and it's inherent in human nature to in some ways look down on people for whatever reason. Shandys post has just proven that as he clearly looks down on WPC. So people can protest as much as they like and indeed it will do a lot of good but ultimately as long as man walks the planet there will always be discrimination of some sort.
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I take your point about the inevitability of bigotry but I don’t think it follows we just have to accept the status quo. It’s a bit like arguing death is inevitable, so why bother treating people with cancer.

And on a slightly different point I think I prefer the term bigotry to the term you used - discrimination.
Bigotry is what people carry in their hearts, what they feel, and that I agree is very difficult to combat. Discrimination is the way the bigoted person behaves and that can be addressed by legislation but also by social disapproval.

And bigotry, of course, can manifest itself in many ways; racism, religious bigotry, the caste and class systems etc. So racism is simply one strand.
 
west_paddock_casualret said:
Maybe cos people are fed up hearing black this black that , not enough back footballers not enough black managers not enough black window cleaners not enough black weathermen not enough black presenters, us blacks are hard done by ffs nobody apart from black people give a fuck about colour were all fuckin human at the end of the day, it’s all bull shit and now with all this BLM prople have just had enough. I’d say to anyone if they don’t likr our country then do one, it does not matter whether they are blue ,pink ,white ,green orange or purple fuckin spotted we are what we fuckin are, Prejudice in any form is wrong and there is a lot of worse prejudice goin on in the world.
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Well I agree with you that prejudice in any form is wrong. And I agree there’s a lot worse prejudice, certainly in terms of outcome and body count, in other parts of the world.

But what I suppose I don’t get is the suggestion that racism in this country only exists because black people keep banging on about it. If that’s what you’re arguing? Or it might be you’re agreeing there is racism in the UK but you’d prefer not to hear about it?
 
bollieboy said:
20's - in answer to your question the caste system has been made illegal in India. Despite that its historical influence is still pervasive and a lot is still required to remove prevailing prejudice. As you infer there are certainly parallels with racism in the UK.
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The caste system may be illegal, but it is still very much alive and kicking. Bit like racism over here
 
Mexboroseasider said:
I take your point about the inevitability of bigotry but I don’t think it follows we just have to accept the status quo. It’s a bit like arguing death is inevitable, so why bother treating people with cancer.

And on a slightly different point I think I prefer the term bigotry to the term you used - discrimination.
Bigotry is what people carry in their hearts, what they feel, and that I agree is very difficult to combat. Discrimination is the way the bigoted person behaves and that can be addressed by legislation but also by social disapproval.

And bigotry, of course, can manifest itself in many ways; racism, religious bigotry, the caste and class systems etc. So racism is simply one strand.
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Just one more observation on a comment you've made. You say we don't have to accept the status quo and I'm sure that's valid that we shouldn't.
But in the fifteen or so years I've been posting on AVFTT we have never discussed this issue to the extent we are doing so now. Is it because, human nature means we accept the status quo until the next incident comes along to rile us. And in our haste to all state our much held abhorrent beliefs about these events we overthink our anger, our hatred of the system. In other words we play right into the hands of the anarchists. Our history is our history both bad and good and should be remembered as such and lessons learnt from it. And in my view there's a better way to do that than by simply dismantling pretty much every godddam statue we've got. Because by doing that we are hiding from our past, not educating the future generations about the rights and wrongs of it.
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
As someone above mentions Nigel Farage as being a racist all I can say is in the 2015 general election his then party (UKIP) pulled in almost 4 million voters so based on comments on here we have one hell of a lot of racists in this country and it’s a bigger problem than we all think. 🙄
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I don't think Farage is racist at all, I do think he hides his true corporate intentions behind some little Englander persona pining for a past that never existed.
 
I visited South Africa many years ago when apartheid was in place, where very few groups of people in this world have had to endure such hardships, I could list what the Black South Africans could do or what they had to do to comply with the White South African government and many of you would not believe it and yet statues of some of the oppressors still remain in place even though apartheid and white rule ended some time ago.
Mandela believed former oppressors should not be forgotten but not punished and when asked about the statues of Kruger and Rhodes and the renaming of the Kruger national park he believed they should remain., even after what they had gone through.
History cannot be altered, as Mandela said the future is the challenge, the past is just that in the past, not forgotten but to remember where we have been and not to return.
 
It’s a shame that you won’t get an answer as there are no racists on this site. But we can celebrate that 😀

Go over to the old board for your answers.
 
Yep, well said Whits. Pretty much the same point I was making. Imagine we must have both been typing our posts at the same time.
 
20togo said:
The whole of India is based on the 'cast' system is it not? That's part of their culture which seems not to be relevant or challenged over here. Why?
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It is challenged over here. It's not in play in this country.
 
Wizaard said:
It is challenged over here. It's not in play in this country.
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Not sure about that Wiz, when it comes to marriage, the caste system is very much in play.
Then again I suppose it's not different to your average British family wanting there kids to marry up
 
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The statue of Robert Peel in Leeds is under threat because people have looked up Robert Peel and seen he was an anti-abolitionist and a cotton mill owner.

Turns out the statue is that of his son, the founder of the police force but protesters still want it taken down.

They don't help the cause with that kind of zealotry IMO.
 
Wizaard said:
The statue of Robert Peel in Leeds is under threat because people have looked up Robert Peel and seen he was an anti-abolitionist and a cotton mill owner.

Turns out the statue is that of his son, the founder of the police force but protesters still want it taken down.

They don't help the cause with that kind of zealotry IMO.
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It reminds me of a few years ago when mob rule decided to hunt out Paedophiles,one bunch burnt a pediatrician's house down.
 
Ignorant and ill-educated people are more likely to be racist but those factors are not pre-conditions. A lack of integration also had an impact. Here on the Fylde coast, as has been noted above, the population is very largely white British. There is no metropolitan mix that helps people to understand and appreciate each other.
Racism is, definitively, a belief that other people, by distinction of race, colour, creed or ethnicity, are inferior to one's self and
People of one's own race, colour, creed or ethnicity, simply by virtue of those differences.
I may turn to a black man and say, "you are a bully, a thief and a bad influence." That is not racism. However, to turn to an Asian lady and say, "we don't want your kind here," is racist because the only factors influencing the disapproval are that person's race and ethnicity.
 
Victorsponge said:
It reminds me of a few years ago when mob rule decided to hunt out Paedophiles,one bunch burnt a pediatrician's house down.
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Quite. What has shocked me is that the 'activists ' are continuing with the campaign despite being aware of the facts.
 
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