Wrexham wage bill

I'm sure the netflix series and all the increased exposure/ sponsorship from the owners covers it.
 
basilrobbie3 said:
The thing that interests me about this supposedly romantic story is that much of the money that these two blokes have put in is in the form of loans at several percent above base rate. They are not quite the philanthropists they would have us all believe.
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Isn't that the way most FC loans work? VB's £1m loan for CA, NE and HB was at 8% which was well above base rate.
 
fcblackpool said:
Isn't that the way most FC loans work? VB's £1m loan for CA, NE and HB was at 8% which was well above base rate.
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That's a fair point, but to answer your question - most, but not all of them.

Wrexham's current business model is no more sustainable in the long term than Fleetwood's, and if they go up this season, they are about to collide with financial reality. It will be interesting to see what they do then.
 
If that number is monthly it's not a massive number, 25 players, team management, backroom staff, club management and staff, then the youth players, and all the people that entails, match day staff, etc. There's probably 40, 50, 60 or more full time and part time employees. It soon adds up.

If you want to get promoted and stay up then the infrastructure has to be in place beforehand. Is it sustainable, maybe not. In the L1/2 they need a set up that's championship level, in the champs once established they will need a PL set up. If they get promoted then there's the pay day, maybe the owners have that long term perspective.
 
basilrobbie3 said:
The thing that interests me about this supposedly romantic story is that much of the money that these two blokes have put in is in the form of loans at several percent above base rate. They are not quite the philanthropists they would have us all believe.
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basilrobbie3 said:
That's a fair point, but to answer your question - most, but not all of them.

Wrexham's current business model is no more sustainable in the long term than Fleetwood's, and if they go up this season, they are about to collide with financial reality. It will be interesting to see what they do then.
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So if they are not the philanthropists people think they are why are they there then? What's the end game? How would they get their money back ?
You're seriously comparing them with Fleetwood? They could get 15k every week if the ground was bigger not 2 and a half. They get 12 now.
I know the TV series is heavily manufactured to show them in a certain light but have you ever watched it?
You posted the other week that we should be sympathetic towards Everton and now load on these two. I don't get it. 99.9 per cent of Wrexham fans would be behind this. Anyone looking in having a go are either the clubs competing with them or its just jealousy.
 
basilrobbie3 said:
That's a fair point, but to answer your question - most, but not all of them.

Wrexham's current business model is no more sustainable in the long term than Fleetwood's, and if they go up this season, they are about to collide with financial reality. It will be interesting to see what they do then.
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tbh we know what's going to happen. At the moment you have 10000 fans loving every minute and maybe another 50000 thinking it's great for the town and area. Then when it goes boobies up and there's no money or Americans there, they'll be in serious trouble. That 10000 drops back to 5000 and of those 5000, 500 complain about owners and controls on football demanding handouts when the community really doesn't care.
 
Up to now its been a great story and it's Good to see how much potential there is in all Football clubs when things are on the up, but what I will say is bank rolling the conference and league 2 is one thing but once they get near league 1 or Championship that will be a true test financially for the American owners.
 
Look at the sponsors on the shirts. Look at the TV deal.

They’re playing a different game to most at that level.

But you’ve got to work within your own set of circumstances and they’ve managed their circumstances incredibly well.

Wrexham are and we’re a massive club for non-league. Marketing themselves as North Wales’ and the Welsh diasporas club is incredibly smart.

They’re no longer representing their town but a big chunk of a country. They’re also marketable in a similar way to a big city club now.

They’ll be just fine as long as they continue to manage it well.

I certainly don’t think it’s a financial black hole.

Reynolds alone will be raking it in from sponsorship and advertising for his other brands which will likely cover much of his costs.

McElhenney is a much higher profile figure as a result and his day-job has likely been boosted as a result.

Everyone but maybe the city of Chester is happy !
 
PNENIL said:
So if they are not the philanthropists people think they are why are they there then? What's the end game? How would they get their money back ?
You're seriously comparing them with Fleetwood? They could get 15k every week if the ground was bigger not 2 and a half. They get 12 now.
I know the TV series is heavily manufactured to show them in a certain light but have you ever watched it?
You posted the other week that we should be sympathetic towards Everton and now load on these two. I don't get it. 99.9 per cent of Wrexham fans would be behind this. Anyone looking in having a go are either the clubs competing with them or its just jealousy.
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Also they have put money in in the form of loans, but are they really banking on it being repaid? I suspect not, unless they reach the PL, and even then you need to put pretty much all income back in to try and compete.
 
Jeff Stelling tells a story that the Americans were looking at 5 English clubs. One was Hartlepool but the owner refused their offer and they ended up at Wrexham.
 
PNENIL said:
So if they are not the philanthropists people think they are why are they there then? What's the end game? How would they get their money back ?
You're seriously comparing them with Fleetwood? They could get 15k every week if the ground was bigger not 2 and a half. They get 12 now.
I know the TV series is heavily manufactured to show them in a certain light but have you ever watched it?
You posted the other week that we should be sympathetic towards Everton and now load on these two. I don't get it. 99.9 per cent of Wrexham fans would be behind this. Anyone looking in having a go are either the clubs competing with them or its just jealousy.
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Sorry, only just seen this.

I think they are (now) genuinely emotionally involved with the club - winning every week helps, of course. Whether they were in the beginning we will probably never know.

I'm merely saying that they are getting nearer and nearer to the glass ceiling. For Fleetwood it was League 1 , for Salford it seems it is League 2. I doubt that the current owners of Wrexham have the financial wherewithal to take them much further and if they do go up they are going to find themselves playing with quite a few clubs who are better supported and equipped than they are. Spending their way through that is probably beyond them - but we'll see.

I agree with you that - unlike Fleetwood and Salford - they are a club with significant history and potential. But the ground ISN'T bigger, and it will cost a hell of a lot to do anything about that. They could conceivably get 15k in different circumstances - equally, if things go wrong, support could fall back towards the 4k that they traditionally attract. It only gets harder for them from here, once they lose their spending advantage. It's nothing to do with jealousy. I'm just observing that they are heading for a bit of a conundrum.

As for Everton, I think you are paraphrasing what I said. My sympathy for them is entirely for their supporters ; the club itself is a complete dog's breakfast, and what you have at the moment is a mix of poor ownership, inept regulation and a potential external "partner" who might do the club irreparable harm if they get their hands on it.
 
Wizaard said:
Isn't that exactly what Karl used to say? Players didn't care about training grounds etc, just how much.
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He did say something to that effect, but on the other hand when a player has a similar offer the club with the better training set up and ground etc will have the advantage.

Koko wouldn’t factor that in as there is a cost involved as we all know.
 
basilrobbie3 said:
Sorry, only just seen this.

I think they are (now) genuinely emotionally involved with the club - winning every week helps, of course. Whether they were in the beginning we will probably never know.

I'm merely saying that they are getting nearer and nearer to the glass ceiling. For Fleetwood it was League 1 , for Salford it seems it is League 2. I doubt that the current owners of Wrexham have the financial wherewithal to take them much further and if they do go up they are going to find themselves playing with quite a few clubs who are better supported and equipped than they are. Spending their way through that is probably beyond them - but we'll see.

I agree with you that - unlike Fleetwood and Salford - they are a club with significant history and potential. But the ground ISN'T bigger, and it will cost a hell of a lot to do anything about that. They could conceivably get 15k in different circumstances - equally, if things go wrong, support could fall back towards the 4k that they traditionally attract. It only gets harder for them from here, once they lose their spending advantage. It's nothing to do with jealousy. I'm just observing that they are heading for a bit of a conundrum.

As for Everton, I think you are paraphrasing what I said. My sympathy for them is entirely for their supporters ; the club itself is a complete dog's breakfast, and what you have at the moment is a mix of poor ownership, inept regulation and a potential external "partner" who might do the club irreparable harm if they get their hands on it.
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You really are out of touch with modern football

I have no love for Wrexham, living in Wales and seeing the way fans of non league or Welsh league clubs are jumping on the bandwagon actually makes me sick in my mouth

However to suggest that the club will reach a ceiling very soon and that the owners won't continue to invest in the club and town as a bit miss guided to say the least

You only have to look at the global sponsors that they have to realise they are playing on a much higher field to the majority of clubs in the football league

Then you have to look at where they are based and the catchment area that they have, this story is far from ending Robbie

As much as you hate modern football unfortunately money does make the world go round and these guys have bucket loads of cash with the only professional club in North Wales behind them

They sell out every single game and have had to build a temporary stand for additional home fans
 
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Yeah, i'm with you Phil. For the vast majority of supporters it's all about "living the dream" and that's what Wrexham fans are doing now. Just like we did. Why do people want to keep putting that down?!

And of course money/investment is a very big factor but it's not the only one. You have to get a lot more right as well.
 
You have to look at their motives for buying it in the first place. They could have started much higher up the pyramid but their main criteria was a working class town and revitalising the area. Rob McElhenney in particular just seems to get it.
Wrexham fans are living the dream and after years of neglect who could begrudge them that? How much money has gone into other clubs in increased away attendances when playing Wrexham ? It's win win. Glass ceiling maybe but if everyone thought like that then no one would do anything. Brighton a prime example and even Luton at the other end of the spectrum. There are still romantic stories in football . I certainly don't think Everton is one.
 
PNENIL said:
You have to look at their motives for buying it in the first place. They could have started much higher up the pyramid but their main criteria was a working class town and revitalising the area. Rob McElhenney in particular just seems to get it.
Wrexham fans are living the dream and after years of neglect who could begrudge them that? How much money has gone into other clubs in increased away attendances when playing Wrexham ? It's win win. Glass ceiling maybe but if everyone thought like that then no one would do anything. Brighton a prime example and even Luton at the other end of the spectrum. There are still romantic stories in football . I certainly don't think Everton is one.
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Everton's is a comedy! 😂😂😂
 
Satriale's Pork Store said:
Their weekly wage bill is about a third of what a hard working top Premier league player takes home.
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Quite. I think some people are completely underestimating the size of the chasm(s) that Wrexham have to bridge if they are to get much further up the pyramid. Full marks to them for what they have done for the local area ; but they are taking a leap into the unknown from here on in (assuming they go up, which they probably will). You only have to look at what our own owner has had to say about the realities of moving from L1 to the Championship to know this is a real issue. It's certainly a lot more demanding than paying L1 wages to buy your way out of the National League.
 
basilrobbie3 said:
Quite. I think some people are completely underestimating the size of the chasm(s) that Wrexham have to bridge if they are to get much further up the pyramid. Full marks to them for what they have done for the local area ; but they are taking a leap into the unknown from here on in (assuming they go up, which they probably will). You only have to look at what our own owner has had to say about the realities of moving from L1 to the Championship to know this is a real issue. It's certainly a lot more demanding than paying L1 wages to buy your way out of the National League.
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I’m sure if Rotherham can get to the championship that Wrexham can too ?
 
basilrobbie3 said:
Quite. I think some people are completely underestimating the size of the chasm(s) that Wrexham have to bridge if they are to get much further up the pyramid. Full marks to them for what they have done for the local area ; but they are taking a leap into the unknown from here on in (assuming they go up, which they probably will). You only have to look at what our own owner has had to say about the realities of moving from L1 to the Championship to know this is a real issue. It's certainly a lot more demanding than paying L1 wages to buy your way out of the National League.
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They turned over £10.8m last financial year. They are, by most fiancial metrics a lower Championship club in waiting.

That's before you factor in the increase for, y'know, actually becoming a Championship club.

It's you who is underestimating.
 
basilrobbie3 said:
The thing that interests me about this supposedly romantic story is that much of the money that these two blokes have put in is in the form of loans at several percent above base rate. They are not quite the philanthropists they would have us all believe.
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Until they call it in, it's immaterial. In fact, it's a debt owed from an entity they own to themselves so it makes sense to have it inflated, for both parties.

This sort of financial illiteracy from someone at BST is alarming, to be honest.
 
Tango1953 said:
Until they call it in, it's immaterial. In fact, it's a debt owed from an entity they own to themselves so it makes sense to have it inflated, for both parties.

This sort of financial illiteracy from someone at BST is alarming, to be honest.
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Is Sadler in the Wrexham category then?
 
basilrobbie3 said:
Quite. I think some people are completely underestimating the size of the chasm(s) that Wrexham have to bridge if they are to get much further up the pyramid. Full marks to them for what they have done for the local area ; but they are taking a leap into the unknown from here on in (assuming they go up, which they probably will). You only have to look at what our own owner has had to say about the realities of moving from L1 to the Championship to know this is a real issue. It's certainly a lot more demanding than paying L1 wages to buy your way out of the National League.
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I don't think they are at all

When you consider the size of the region as in North Wales with no other professional football club in the area along with the wealth of the owners i think its you who is underestimating what they can do

There are smaller clubs in the Premier League now

i honestly don't see the point of the reference to our owner given he doesn't have anywhere near as much money as the Wrexham owners and even if he did he wouldn't be spending it in the same way

They have several players now on higher wages than the majority of our squad, in fact our Championship wage bill was very close to the one Wrexham had in non league

If i was you i would give up on this thread before you make yourself look even more ridiculous
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
I don't think they are at all

When you consider the size of the region as in North Wales with no other professional football club in the area along with the wealth of the owners i think its you who is underestimating what they can do

There are smaller clubs in the Premier League now

i honestly don't see the point of the reference to our owner given he doesn't have anywhere near as much money as the Wrexham owners and even if he did he wouldn't be spending it in the same way

They have several players now on higher wages than the majority of our squad, in fact our Championship wage bill was very close to the one Wrexham had in non league

If i was you i would give up on this thread before you make yourself look even more ridiculous
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He’s doing loans to the club currently to the tune of over 19 million pounds, n’est ce pas?
 
What gets me is the people who think L1 would somehow be harder next season if Stockport and Wrexham are in it but Bolton and Derby and Portsmouth who between get average home gates of 65k per game, exit !!!!!
Things level out and that’s what will happen with Wrexham
 
BlackpoolFC said:
What gets me is the people who think L1 would somehow be harder next season if Stockport and Wrexham are in it but Bolton and Derby and Portsmouth who between get average home gates of 65k per game, exit !!!!!
Things level out and that’s what will happen with Wrexham
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Bolton, Portsmouth and Derby don't represent half a country like Wrexham currently do
 
fcblackpool said:
Is there the appetite in N Wales? You'll know far more than me.
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Oh Yeah they are massive all over North Wales now, I've noticed it where i live with pubs running coaches to matches, trains from Anglesey etc

People seem to forget that there are nearly a million people in North and Mid Wales within about 150 miles or so of Wrexham with no Pro Welsh football club to support

Whoever advised the Hollywood stars to go for Wrexham is a genius given the potential they have, they have done the hard work by getting people interested in the story and massively increasing their fanbase
 
Sooty59 said:
What pisses me off is. It’s our national game and we’ve been taken over by foreigners as their vanity projects. Of course in the short term the fans are happy enough to see their team winning a lot more. But it’s never sat right with me. When just when will it all come crashing down.
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Out of interest, was that the stance you took when Belokon (all hail Valerei!) was acting as such a pivotal figure during the time of his involvement with BFC, back in the day?
 
Raging_Bull said:
Lets face it, players who should be playing higher don't go and sign for clubs just because they all of a sudden decide they like the area or a couple of Hollywood stars decide to buy it, they do it for cash, end of story.
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Some people on here still think we missed players because of the training ground.
 
Sooty59 said:
What pisses me off is. It’s our national game and we’ve been taken over by foreigners as their vanity projects. Of course in the short term the fans are happy enough to see their team winning a lot more. But it’s never sat right with me. When just when will it all come crashing down.
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Football clubs have always been someone's vanity project. It's just changed from local captains of industry to rich Arabs and Americans.
 
Tango1953 said:
Until they call it in, it's immaterial. In fact, it's a debt owed from an entity they own to themselves so it makes sense to have it inflated, for both parties.

This sort of financial illiteracy from someone at BST is alarming, to be honest.
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Not questioning their achievements and/or abilities but you do realise that BST is a clique and not a group of qualified accountants and financial analysts.

Most of the stuff that used to be published in the Gazette from BST were just the personal views of one person within the trust.
 
I know there is probably a chasm between Wrexham heading for a disaster and the North Wales giants heading for success but I'm in the middle.

Do Wrexham really have that much more potential than some of the other clubs currently languishing in the lower leagues ?

Is there really anything wrong with aggressive investmemt in a lower league club in the eyes of the supporters at such clubs, would they rather "live the dream" and kick on up the leagues or finish fifth bottom and win the Sensible Sustainability Award every season ?
 
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