1 Million people forced to flee North Fylde

Status
Not open for further replies.
Totally inhumane. Neither side, Israel or Hammas, come out of this with any credit. Grant Shapps backs Israel but ducks the question whether it is legal or not whilst Labour stay, not unsurprisingly, silent!!

The whole episode is beyond belief, and I pray for those innocent men, women and children on both sides who simply want to live and make the best of their lives.
 
I actually think there’s a chance this could be over quickly. Israel will send the land force in to destroy the underground network.
They’ll face very little resistance as Hamas won’t want a gun fight with their pocket knives. Israeli forces could within 7 days obliterate all the infrastructure with little resistance (this isn’t Ukraine with a brave rearguard being fought)

Israel can then sit at the table knowing job done and allow the UN to look good as peace negotiators.

Is this feasible?

One thing is for sure. They’ve wanted this moment for a long time and now have justification for taking a massive ground force into Gaza. Hamas knew this would happen too - it all now rests on the big boys too when this stops….. (if Saudis, UAE, Egypt all stay out of the fighting then it’s done)
 
Chunkylad said:
I actually think there’s a chance this could be over quickly. Israel will send the land force in to destroy the underground network.
They’ll face very little resistance as Hamas won’t want a gun fight with their pocket knives. Israeli forces could within 7 days obliterate all the infrastructure with little resistance (this isn’t Ukraine with a brave rearguard being fought)

Israel can then sit at the table knowing job done and allow the UN to look good as peace negotiators.

Is this feasible?

One thing is for sure. They’ve wanted this moment for a long time and now have justification for taking a massive ground force into Gaza. Hamas knew this would happen too - it all now rests on the big boys too when this stops….. (if Saudis, UAE, Egypt all stay out of the fighting then it’s done)
Click to expand...

Surprisingly the financial markets haven’t sent the balloon up yet over this. Seems they might be expecting some kind of similar outcome.
 
Chunkylad said:
I actually think there’s a chance this could be over quickly. Israel will send the land force in to destroy the underground network.
They’ll face very little resistance as Hamas won’t want a gun fight with their pocket knives. Israeli forces could within 7 days obliterate all the infrastructure with little resistance (this isn’t Ukraine with a brave rearguard being fought)

Israel can then sit at the table knowing job done and allow the UN to look good as peace negotiators.

Is this feasible?

One thing is for sure. They’ve wanted this moment for a long time and now have justification for taking a massive ground force into Gaza. Hamas knew this would happen too - it all now rests on the big boys too when this stops….. (if Saudis, UAE, Egypt all stay out of the fighting then it’s done)
Click to expand...
Yep, I think the Israelis think they can fumigate the vermin out of the tunnels etc and make it safer.
 
"Plans for the invasion itself will be a closely guarded secret, but Israel has been getting ready for years. It's been training troops in a multi-million
dollar urban warfare centre in the south, dubbed mini-Gaza.
There they have learnt how to fight through a maze of tightly packed buildings and tunnels, of which Hamas is believed to have built more than 1,000.
Yaakov Katz, a former editor of the Jerusalem Post and the author of several books on Israel's military, says the military has been configured to operate for this very purpose in specialist brigades - combining engineers with armoured bulldozers working alongside tanks and infantry.
dollar urban warfare centre in the south, dubbed mini-Gaza."

BBC Website
 
There seem to be 2 views of the reason behind the Hamas atrocities.

1 They were way more successful than they thought they could be, due to Israeli unusually slow response times

2 It was planned to draw the Israelis into a ground offensive in Gaza. This would involve the Israelis killing thousands of innocent Palestinians with subsequent international condemnation, and they will meet dug in Hamas terrorists amply supplied with anti tank weapons.

No way of knowing what the reality is, but I feel for both the Israelis and Palestinians killed and made homeless.

There needs to be a proper negotiated settlement, outwith Hamas, and the US has a major role in caling the Israelis to recognise Palestinians right to life. Otherwise ths will happen again in a few years, led by a new generation of radicalise Palestinians.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
There needs to be a proper negotiated settlement, outwith Hamas, and the US has a major role in caling the Israelis to recognise Palestinians right to life. Otherwise ths will happen again in a few years, led by a new generation of radicalise Palestinians.
Click to expand...
How do you negotiate with a terminator?

How do you negotiate with an organization who's only objective is to see every Israeli dead?
 
Lost Seasider said:
How do you negotiate with a terminator?

How do you negotiate with an organization who's only objective is to see every Israeli dead?
Click to expand...
You didn't read my post, you just jumped in. I said outwith Hamas.

What a one dimensional view of a complex situation. Will you be happy if all the Palestinians in Gaza are killed? America and the UN must use their muscle to start negotiations with Palestinians , HAMAS has lost so many personnel, they will become a minor player. Many major conflicts have been resolved in this way, including the Israel v Egypt conflict.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
You didn't read my post, you just jumped in. I said outwith Hamas.

What a one dimensional view of a complex situation. Will you be happy if all the Palestinians in Gaza are killed? America and the UN must use their muscle to start negotiations with Palestinians , HAMAS has lost so many personnel, they will become a minor player. Many major conflicts have been resolved in this way, including the Israel v Egypt conflict.
Click to expand...
Where do you think Hamas are going to go? Do you think they, plus Iran, are just going to disappear because you say so?

If it seems a one dimensional view, it's because it's a very one dimensional conflict, Hamas, plus a sizeable proportion of the population of the Palestinian territories want all Jews in Palestine dead, there is nothing else to discuss, and the idea that some kind of negotiated settlement is possible is pure fantasy and an attempt to shift the blame for Saturday's massacre onto Israel for not negotiating sooner.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Where do you think Hamas are going to go? Do you think they, plus Iran, are just going to disappear because you say so?

If it seems a one dimensional view, it's because it's a very one dimensional conflict, Hamas, plus a sizeable proportion of the population of the Palestinian territories want all Jews in Palestine dead, there is nothing else to discuss, and the idea that some kind of negotiated settlement is possible is pure fantasy and an attempt to shift the blame for Saturday's massacre onto Israel for not negotiating sooner.
Click to expand...
Wrong on so many levels, but if you are so blinkered you cannot see the real causes of this conflict, there is no point discussing any further. I trust your conscience is clear as thousands more Palestinians and Israelis die because you see only one side at fault.

I will keep repeating, the only permanent soution is negotiation, recognised by the UN, many Israelis, most of the Arab world and many who bother to research the origins of the conflict around the world. There is no right and wrong, only innocent people of all faiths, and none, dying.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
Wrong on so many levels, but if you are so blinkered you cannot see the real causes of this conflict, there is no point discussing any further. I trust your conscience is clear as thousands more Palestinians and Israelis die because you see only one side at fault.

I will keep repeating, the only permanent soution is negotiation, recognised by the UN, many Israelis, most of the Arab world and many who bother to research the origins of the conflict around the world. There is no right and wrong, only innocent people of all faiths, and none, dying.
Click to expand...
They'll never be peace I’m afraid in this region.
As long as you have countries like Iran and Syria (who back these radical militant groups like Hamas and Hezbollah) saying the state of Israel should be eradicated and all Jews killed it’ll never happen in a million years.
 
Last edited:
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
They'll never be peace I’m afraid in this region.
As long as you have countries like Iran and Syria (who back these radical militants groups like Hamas and Hesbaloh) saying the state of Israel should be eradicated and all Jews killed it’ll never happen in a million years.
Click to expand...
So we just give up and walk away, leaving thousands more to die?

Egypt and Jordan used to say the same, the timing of this has stopped a deal with Saudi, who have said the same, was close before the Hamas atrocities.

A fair 2 or 3 nation solution is there for the taking, but both sides will need to dial down the rhetoric. Hamas needs destroying, without inflicting thousands of casualties, and the Israeli government needs to stop its settlers taking whatever they want.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
So we just give up and walk away, leaving thousands more to die?

Egypt and Jordan used to say the same, the timing of this has stopped a deal with Saudi, who have said the same, was close before the Hamas atrocities.

A fair 2 or 3 nation solution is there for the taking, but both sides will need to dial down the rhetoric. Hamas needs destroying, without inflicting thousands of casualties, and the Israeli government needs to stop its settlers taking whatever they want.
Click to expand...
I didn’t say we give up and walk away did I? I said there won’t be peace in this region plain and simple.

If there’s going to be a solution it’ll have to come from the hard line Arab countries (two I’ve already mentioned) because Israel is not going anywhere.

Either the Arab countries except Israel as a recognised Jewish nation and call a truce to hostilities or it continues.

And I’m afraid the above will never happen in a million years so sadly it goes on as I can’t see an end solution.
 
Last edited:
Tangerinemoss said:
Wrong on so many levels, but if you are so blinkered you cannot see the real causes of this conflict, there is no point discussing any further. I trust your conscience is clear as thousands more Palestinians and Israelis die because you see only one side at fault.

I will keep repeating, the only permanent soution is negotiation, recognised by the UN, many Israelis, most of the Arab world and many who bother to research the origins of the conflict around the world. There is no right and wrong, only innocent people of all faiths, and none, dying.
Click to expand...
I'm afraid you're the one who can't see the real causes of the conflict, or the true simplicity of the situation.

They (Hamas etc) want all Jews in Israel dead, there is nothing to negotiate, and any concessions that Israel does make will only be used to further this goal.
 
Chunkylad said:
I actually think there’s a chance this could be over quickly. Israel will send the land force in to destroy the underground network.
They’ll face very little resistance as Hamas won’t want a gun fight with their pocket knives. Israeli forces could within 7 days obliterate all the infrastructure with little resistance (this isn’t Ukraine with a brave rearguard being fought)

Israel can then sit at the table knowing job done and allow the UN to look good as peace negotiators.

Is this feasible?

One thing is for sure. They’ve wanted this moment for a long time and now have justification for taking a massive ground force into Gaza. Hamas knew this would happen too - it all now rests on the big boys too when this stops….. (if Saudis, UAE, Egypt all stay out of the fighting then it’s done)
Click to expand...
I doubt any of those 3 countries will step in Chunks the frontrunners for that will be Iraq, Syria (encouraged by Russia) and possibly Iraq, where do China sit remains the question 🤔
 
Jaffa_The_Hut said:
I didn’t say we give up and walk away did I? I said there won’t be peace in this region plain and simple.

If there’s going to be a solution it’ll have to come from the hard line Arab countries (two I’ve already mentioned) because Israel is not going anywhere.

Either the Arab countries except Israel as a recognised Jewish nation and call a truce to hostilities or it continues.

And I’m afraid the above will never happen in a million years so sadly it goes on as I can’t see an end solution.
Click to expand...
So there is no solution?

There is always a solution, it might be really difficult, and take time, but if Eygypt, Jordan and Saudi can agree with Israel's fundamental right to exist, why not others?
 
Lost Seasider said:
I'm afraid you're the one who can't see the real causes of the conflict, or the true simplicity of the situation.

They (Hamas etc) want all Jews in Israel dead, there is nothing to negotiate, and any concessions that Israel does make will only be used to further this goal.
Click to expand...
Concessions like not stealing other people's land, homes and flattening their schools and hospitals?

History is not your strong point, I guess.
 
Netanyahu is getting a free run in the West whilst many Israelis are blaming him for this disaster. Firstly his culture war on areas such as the legal system has divided Israel, he appointed right wing politicians and has encouraged an Israeli expansion programme into occupied territory. Another populist politician the world is suffering from, although he's everything Trump would like to be (actually fought in active combat and not dodged it). He's consistently ignored the Oslo peace accord and doesn't believe in a two state solution.
Straight for Haaretz editorial, admittedly a Liberal, left leaning newspaper:
"The disaster that befell Israel on the holiday of Simchat Torah is the clear responsibility of one person: Benjamin Netanyahu. The prime minister, who has prided himself on his vast political experience and irreplaceable wisdom in security matters, completely failed to identify the dangers he was consciously leading Israel into when establishing a government of annexation and dispossession, when appointing Bezalel Smotrich and Itamar Ben-Gvir to key positions, while embracing a foreign policy that openly ignored the existence and rights of Palestinians"
 
70 people from North Fylde killed when their convoy was hit by bombs near the Gynn.

Critically ill people in Nursing Homes in Fleetwood, Rossall and Cleveleys having to be relocated. WHO and the UN condemn this unacceptable disregard for human life.
 
The Israelis are enthusiastically embracing the passage from the Old Testament - "an eye for an eye"

They'll end up blinding a lot of people.

It's ironic that the passage is from Exodus 21: 23-27.

They could solve all the problems they're faced with with getting out of Palestinian land.
 
Ollygon said:
The Israelis are enthusiastically embracing the passage from the Old Testament - "an eye for an eye"

They'll end up blinding a lot of people.

It's ironic that the passage is from Exodus 21: 23-27.

They could solve all the problems they're faced with with getting out of Palestinian land.
Click to expand...
another anti-semite comment.
 
Interesting article: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...ng-as-palestinians-want-to-annihilate-israel/

It is understandable that the West wants to believe that many Palestinians engage in violence because they seek “freedom from occupation”, or are “angered by settlements”, or “want to improve conditions in Gaza”. Those are rational, limited, and understandable goals that Westerners can feel good about supporting. But they are projected goals, inventions of a Western mind.

The vaunted Palestinian “cause”, of which Abu Daoud spoke, and which Hamas has dutifully pursued, has never been about any of those goals. Its followers have made it clear, for more than a century, in words, actions, and strategic decisions, that their “cause” was always one: the prevention, and then the destruction of a Jewish state in any part of the territory between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea. Hence “Free Palestine” and “From the River to the Sea”.

Had Palestinian leaders ever sought only an independent state in part of the land, had they only wanted to end Israel’s military occupation of the Gaza Strip and West Bank (which began in 1967, whereas the organisation to “Liberate Palestine” was established in 1964), had they wanted to improve living conditions in Gaza, had they truly pursued the rational goals the West had projected on them, they would have achieved them a long time ago. The Palestinians could have been celebrating 75 years of independence next to the Jewish state of Israel.

But the Palestinian “cause” was always singularly and consistently about nothing less than ensuring that the Jews have no state in any part of the land.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Interesting article: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/20...ng-as-palestinians-want-to-annihilate-israel/

It is understandable that the West wants to believe that many Palestinians engage in violence because they seek “freedom from occupation”, or are “angered by settlements”, or “want to improve conditions in Gaza”. Those are rational, limited, and understandable goals that Westerners can feel good about supporting. But they are projected goals, inventions of a Western mind.

The vaunted Palestinian “cause”, of which Abu Daoud spoke, and which Hamas has dutifully pursued, has never been about any of those goals. Its followers have made it clear, for more than a century, in words, actions, and strategic decisions, that their “cause” was always one: the prevention, and then the destruction of a Jewish state in any part of the territory between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea. Hence “Free Palestine” and “From the River to the Sea”.

Had Palestinian leaders ever sought only an independent state in part of the land, had they only wanted to end Israel’s military occupation of the Gaza Strip and West Bank (which began in 1967, whereas the organisation to “Liberate Palestine” was established in 1964), had they wanted to improve living conditions in Gaza, had they truly pursued the rational goals the West had projected on them, they would have achieved them a long time ago. The Palestinians could have been celebrating 75 years of independence next to the Jewish state of Israel.

But the Palestinian “cause” was always singularly and consistently about nothing less than ensuring that the Jews have no state in any part of the land.h
Click to expand...

In the Telegraph!!!!!!!!!!

For a different point of view Google Conservative MP Crispin Blunts opinions on this.

.... and he has a fantastic sister.
 
Just watching Anna Foster on BBC News.

She's been reporting from the Gaza border, and now the border with Lebanon. She had to cut short her report because of an incoming missile!

A few months ago she was one of the first journalists to arrive in south east Turkey/northern Syria. What a very brave woman, and looks just like a mum you'll see picking her kids up from school.

She's becoming the new Kate Adie.
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
I think it's very charitable giving notice
Click to expand...
It's a humanitarian act and correct .
I know done will say what about the Hamas invasion last week but they are terrorists and Isreal is a democracy.They are showing they are different.

However make no mistake, we have seen nothing yet in terms of the Israeli response .
I don't want to see anymore people massacred and displaced
The smashing of Hamas causes me zero problems
 
Not even all Israelis. Just the ultra right wing extremists who hold the sway of power.

Just like Russia. I'm sure the great majority of Russians are peace loving. They unfortunately are stuck with the lunatic in charge.
 
Ollygon said:
Not even all Israelis. Just the ultra right wing extremists who hold the sway of power.

Just like Russia. I'm sure the great majority of Russians are peace loving. They unfortunately are stuck with the lunatic in charge.
Click to expand...
Presumably, by ultra-right wing, you mean those Israelis who don't want to see their sons and daughters exterminated by Hamas.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top