I just told you, I think it's unhealthy cynicism. And presumably nobody wants this to be a cash cow being pursued just to line a Labour councils pockets so I thought me pointing out they don't get the money would be a welcome relief. Also I guess I am vaguely interested to see how this expands considering the Tories are pushing it and other such 'war on motorists' rhetoric front and centre of their pre-election campaign
20 mph speed limit
- Thread starter Ollygon
- Start date
Phil_bfc deux
Well-known member
So the only reason you are bothered is to try and make a political point
Ok nice one
Anyway I'm out
Someone said it was a cash cow and I was genuinely curious how on could be, so I asked him. You replied prompting the 5 seconds of google searching it took to recognise this makes no money for the Welsh councils and government so I thought I'd update the thread with this information, since it was relevant. I would imagine if I interjected to make a 'political point' that Labour were bad you'd be agreeing and not asking why I care.
Phil_bfc deux
Well-known member
2 billion has been raised through motorist fines in the last 10 years
That's a cash cow to me
Doesn't effect you anyway
And to be frank I couldn't give a shit about any political party
Yes to the UK government, which is Conservative led. They have spent 8,460 billion in that time. So fines, of which some are obviously necessary, I'm sure we can agree, amount to 0.02% of the budget. Looks like more of a rounding error than a cash cow.
Phil_bfc deux
Well-known member
I'm not bothered who the government is 2 billion from motorists is a cash cow
0.02% of the overall budget is irrelevant as we are talking about what the government gets from speeding fines
Yes and if it amounts to 0.02% of their budget it isn't a cash cow. It's a government of 67 million people, that they deal in big numbers isn't surprising. The insinuation is here they are doing this for the money - and I guess for some reason now are using all fines over the last 10 years, including poeple going 70 mph in a 30 zone. So that's when you have to look at the context of their overall budget. Nobody would say Manchested United selling a player for 5 grand was a 'cash cow'. That's what 0.02% of their transfer spend would equate to.
Phil_bfc deux
Well-known member
Fines dont go to transport. It's goes into general expenditure and the government assigns the budget of each department as it decides each year. The government could choose to put the fines into it, or the other trillions of pounds they get from taxes and borrowing over the last decade. But if you truly think this is all being done just to to raise 0.02% of the Conservative government budget, then I still need to understand what Welsh Labour councils have to do with it.
Phil_bfc deux
Well-known member
So what is the budget for driving fines? As using this 0.02% doesn't make any sense
The facts are that the monies raised from motorists fines have increased massively year on year
It's a Welsh Labour idea hence why I mention them
I don't care where the money goes and equally i don't believe any of the reasons why they have implemented it in Wales as none of them make any sense at all
It's not good for the environment, it won't encourage more people to use public transport and its debatable if it will improve the NHs. All reasons that have been spouted by Drakesford
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I dont understand the question. The budget for driving fines?
I understand it's a Welsh labour idea in this instance and I'm not seeking to promote or defend the decsion. But TN (with the admittance of putting his cynics hat on) was questioning whether this was just being done to raise money. If they aren't actually getting the money, and it is such an insignificant amount of the money the government has, I would think it is patently obvious to anyone we can rule that out as a motivation. I don't know whether the policy is terrible for other reasons or whether it will do the things Drakesford claims. That's too big of a rabbit hole for even myself to go down so I will take your word for it in the interest of not dragging this out further. Up the Pool tonight and all that. I just think it is unhealthy when we automatically assume all these policies are motivated only by money, and in this instance it clearly isn't. Then it's a question of competence and we can have healthier debate about policies. But when we automatically and erroneously presume it's all about greed I think that is quite harmful.
Old_Laytonian
Well-known member
Phil_bfc deux
Well-known member
You keep telling me the mones raised from fines are only 0.02% I'm asking what the budget is for that department as using the overall budget for the government to make a point of argument doesn't make any sense at all
You are arguing that they aren't a cash cow based on the 0.02% its ridiculous
Its estimated that speed cameras cost £5.7million each year to run, while bringing £78.3million in speeding-fine revenue into central Government.
Cash cow indeed
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Yes but 'fines' isn't a department. Do you mean transport in general? There is no direct flow of fines into a certain department. The department of transport does not make up laws and enforce them and then keep the money themselves. If they did, this line of inquiry would have some value. But the government pools speeding tickets together with all the other money they bring in, the trillion pounds a year they get off borrowing, tax, trade, other fines etc. How it allocates it is up to them. Transport is generally one of the most profitable departments for spending because infastructure spending leads to growth. Every pound you spend generates multiple more.
Phil_bfc deux
Well-known member
Banging my head against a brick wall on motoring issues with someone who doesn't even drive
The facts are that speed cameras and motoring fines are a massive source of income for the government however you dress it up
If you want to turn this into an argument about whether or not 2 billion is a big number then please go ahead. 1,000 is a big number for me. I'd love an extra grand in my wage this month. I dont really know what purpose that would serve but you won't find me disagreeing. But if you are actually referring to the significance of £2bn then we have to put it into the context of where that £2bn goes, and it goes into a pot of £8,400bn, of which counts for 0.02%, then it is vastly insignificant. A rounding error. And if we want to stay on track with the actual discusssion of this thread, to assign financial motive to this plan you need to be arguing that this makes any sort of discernible difference, and that the Labour Welsh councils would want the Tory government to have it, for some reason.
Phil_bfc deux
Well-known member
I've told you I'm not arsed about Tory or Labour I'm saying speed cameras and motoring fines ARE A CASH COW
That's it the government rakes in billions in motoring fines the figures prove it and it doesn't matter a jot how many times you mention 0.02%, its completely irrelevant
Well it's a shame that I can't help you understand the basic concept of relativity but I can't say I didnt try. Since I was actually referring to TN's post which does refer to a political point, that this could be being done cynically for financial motivations, the value of the money raised in context and who gets it is pretty relevant. If you want to start a different thread about how billion is a big number go and do it, but that's not what the point is.
Phil_bfc deux
Well-known member
No the point is you jumped on a thread to say that the monies raised from motorists isn't a cash cowWell it's a shame that I can't help you understand the basic concept of relativity but I can't say I didnt try. Since I was actually referring to TN's post which does refer to a political point, that this could be being done cynically for financial motivations, the value of the money raised in context and who gets it is pretty relevant. If you want to start a different thread about how billion is a big number go and do it, but that's not what the point is.
It clearly is and the figures prove it
Goodbye
Nope, replied to Neil questioning whether this is motivated by Welsh Labour wanting money. You wanted your own little argument about UK wide speeding fines over the last 10 years for some reason.
Phil_bfc deux
Well-known member
So now you are changing the narrative
Impeccable reading comprehension skills.
Wizaard
Well-known member
Courts money goes to Central Government, Westminster.
Wizaard
Well-known member
The Tories have picked up the ULEZ baton and see there are votes in characterising motorists as victims. That's all this is about.
It seems to have passed them by that a big chunk of motorists also sometimes have kids at schools and are old folk trying to cross roads on foot.
Yeah I mentioned earlier more Welsh voters actually support this than oppose.
1966_and_all_that
Well-known member
Yep,
the freedom to die from carbon monoxide poisoning.
The freedom to die from speeding motorists.
The freedom to destroy humanity through global warming.
I blame these woke types.
Wilburrabbit
Well-known member
Bought into the narrative then? Carbon emissions from gear changes and revs will if anything increase. I was in Wales last week and driving at 20mph a couple of cars over took other cars and nearly caused serious accidents. The manufacturing of electric vehicles and their sustainability is even more damaging than normal cars.
It’s good to see that someone has fallen for the rhetoric.
[Citation needed]