BFC_BFC_BFC
Well-known member
I think Sadler was sold a pup tbh… Half what he paid wouldn’t have been unjustified, given the state of the place
A STATEMENT FROM SIMON SADLER........
- Thread starter Simonized
- Start date
AngelBFC
Well-known member
Not according to his statement . It’s on top of what he paid for the club .
voyeur
Well-known member
Yes Phil is wrong.
"I paid a full price for what in reality was a very distressed asset that had suffered years of chronic under-investment. Then, as now, my motives were not financial.
Since then, I have ploughed a further GBP18m of my family’s money into the Club. In this financial year alone, I expect to provide an additional GBP5m, this before any contribution to any large infrastructure projects."
"I paid a full price for what in reality was a very distressed asset that had suffered years of chronic under-investment. Then, as now, my motives were not financial.
Since then, I have ploughed a further GBP18m of my family’s money into the Club. In this financial year alone, I expect to provide an additional GBP5m, this before any contribution to any large infrastructure projects."
TwelveAngryMen
Well-known member
I agree
Phil_bfc deux
Well-known member
The accounts don't read like that
kerrytangerine
Well-known member
How did that go then?
S
Scratcher67
Guest
Indeed he is.
voyeur
Well-known member
How do they read, Mr Accountant?
TwelveAngryMen
Well-known member
Pretty sure the purchase price was £8.2m
Phil_bfc deux
Well-known member
I think it was something like that and I recall the club losing around 6 million during the covid times so I'm unsure where the other 12 million or so came from
The last accounts showed a small profit didn't they?
TwelveAngryMen
Well-known member
Operating loss was just under £1.4m however £ in on players / manager was just under £2m so yes a small profit
Note that’s 21/22 not 22/23
Note that’s 21/22 not 22/23
bollieboy
Well-known member
You are looking at P&L. You need to look at the cashflow.
SS (directly and via Blackpool Holdings put £12m in accounts to end of June 2020, £5.5m to end of June 2021 and £3.3m to end of June 2022. That comes to £20.8m - there was £2.1m cash in the accounts at June 2022 so I assume that is where the £18m figure comes from (£20.8m - £2.1m).
So basically he has burnt £18m cash since buying the club. The club is most likely valued greater than £8.2m now but I very much doubt £18m more.
Matesrates
Well-known member
So basically those whinging should get off his back, there’s no way we’re going to get an American or Saudi billionaire, so we’re lucky to have him.
JOHNMAJORTOM
Well-known member
wtf do we expect. its certainly not cheap running a football club. s/s seems like a decent bloke with his heart in the right place. no one eanted to be releagated. if we do bounce back this season then it will be great. it took TWO SEASONS before we got back to the CHAMPIONSHIP.
Matesrates
Well-known member
Listen, we’re going up, thanks to Sir Simon Sadler.
BFC_BFC_BFC
Well-known member
When you look at what has already been invested as well as ongoing support for the team as well as future capital projects, it’s no wonder that SS gets frustrated with our fans.
Fair enough, I really don’t think he expects a standing ovation every time he walks in the room or even for the fans not to be critical from time to time, but the bloke certainly doesn’t deserve for his commitment or endeavour to be called into question..
Our fanbase owe him a huge debt of gratitude imho and as far as I’m concerned he’s still well in credit for our respect and patience, regardless of last season.
Fair enough, I really don’t think he expects a standing ovation every time he walks in the room or even for the fans not to be critical from time to time, but the bloke certainly doesn’t deserve for his commitment or endeavour to be called into question..
Our fanbase owe him a huge debt of gratitude imho and as far as I’m concerned he’s still well in credit for our respect and patience, regardless of last season.
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Toastrack
Well-known member
I doubt he's lying about about the 18m. That would be incredibly stupid and he isnt.
Ah. Bollie explains.
The group accounts to 30 June 2022 state "...the company and group owed Mr SP Sadler, director of Blackpool Football Club Holdings Ltd, a total of £15,990,035 (2021: £16,001,665). This loan is interest free" (Note 24 on page 30).
It's highly credible that this would have risen to £18m in the 14 months between then and SS's statement earlier this week.
(Accounts filed on 9 March 2023)
BLACKPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB HOLDINGS LTD filing history - Find and update company information - GOV.UK
BLACKPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB HOLDINGS LTD - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity
find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk
straightatthewall
Well-known member
There's far too many facts being quoted here rather than online gossip opinions. Facts are for sheeple. FACT.
AngelBFC
Well-known member
Phil ?The group accounts to 30 June 2022 state "...the company and group owed Mr SP Sadler, director of Blackpool Football Club Holdings Ltd, a total of £15,990,035 (2021: £16,001,665). This loan is interest free" (Note 24 on page 30).
It's highly credible that this would have risen to £18m in the 14 months between then and SS's statement earlier this week.
(Accounts filed on 9 March 2023)
BLACKPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB HOLDINGS LTD filing history - Find and update company information - GOV.UK
BLACKPOOL FOOTBALL CLUB HOLDINGS LTD - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity
voyeur
Well-known member
Some thoughts from the forum of fan owned club Exeter....
Statement from the Blackpool owner, note they have a top 6 player budget!
5mn cash injection. And they still looked poor against us
To be Top of the league speaks volumes for Exeter City at the moment-competing against sides like this with sugar Daddy Chairmen-just look at the money the Blackpool guy has ploughed into the club in recent years!
Sorry, I saw it was 5m this season. 23m in total!
From some of the names he's quoted, to prove how much he's investing, it feels like he's spending big money unnecessarily. Why spend loads of money on someone like Jordan Rhodes at this level? Weird statement that contradicts itself.
And they are only 24 million quid away from being self sustainable as well. His stated aim.....
I guess this rather pitiful statement was prompted due to some fans getting on his back because they’re not storming little old League 1 early doors.
You would’ve thought he’d have a slightly thicker skin than this and also not be so naive. Fans will naturally think he’s a source of unlimited cash and that success on the pitch will follow.
I think you have to take it in the context of the appalling happenings at Blackpool under the previous owners the Oystons.
Also in regard to their fans carping on social media asking where the monies raised from player sales has gone, and why it hasn't been spent on strengthening the team, it is just par for the course. There have equally been similar posts here on Exeweb recently, in regard to cash from Ampadu, Collins and Key !
On the figures given he's every right to say that. I still think his bigger point is valid.
If a club is lucky they will get someone in willing to pump funds but also with an eye on the long term sustainability of the Club. If not, you cede ownership to someone who may promise or even deliver immediate success but at the risk of the club becoming an asset that is always up for grabs to future, different owners of various degrees of competence and altruism.
And Barnsley fans are bemused too....
barnsleyfc.org.uk
Statement from the Blackpool owner, note they have a top 6 player budget!
5mn cash injection. And they still looked poor against us
To be Top of the league speaks volumes for Exeter City at the moment-competing against sides like this with sugar Daddy Chairmen-just look at the money the Blackpool guy has ploughed into the club in recent years!
Sorry, I saw it was 5m this season. 23m in total!
From some of the names he's quoted, to prove how much he's investing, it feels like he's spending big money unnecessarily. Why spend loads of money on someone like Jordan Rhodes at this level? Weird statement that contradicts itself.
And they are only 24 million quid away from being self sustainable as well. His stated aim.....
I guess this rather pitiful statement was prompted due to some fans getting on his back because they’re not storming little old League 1 early doors.
You would’ve thought he’d have a slightly thicker skin than this and also not be so naive. Fans will naturally think he’s a source of unlimited cash and that success on the pitch will follow.
I think you have to take it in the context of the appalling happenings at Blackpool under the previous owners the Oystons.
Also in regard to their fans carping on social media asking where the monies raised from player sales has gone, and why it hasn't been spent on strengthening the team, it is just par for the course. There have equally been similar posts here on Exeweb recently, in regard to cash from Ampadu, Collins and Key !
On the figures given he's every right to say that. I still think his bigger point is valid.
If a club is lucky they will get someone in willing to pump funds but also with an eye on the long term sustainability of the Club. If not, you cede ownership to someone who may promise or even deliver immediate success but at the risk of the club becoming an asset that is always up for grabs to future, different owners of various degrees of competence and altruism.
And Barnsley fans are bemused too....
Blackpool Chairman
Explaining how much money he is having to plough into the club. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/66706455
barnsleyfc.org.uk
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Mark_GT
Well-known member
Here is a fact about our previous owner. The boards behind all the flags hung around the North Stand are...... plasterboard. Factamumdo.
Here is a fact about Valeri Belokon. Without his case for unfair prejudice we would still be mostly boycotting under the Oyston yoke. Thank you Valeri.
However, his murky business record means that even if he was interested in putting his truly massive winnings into BFC (which he isnt btw), it would be a very bad idea indeed. Factamundo 2.
There is really no point in looking back in the hope that money could flow. It won't.
Here is a fact about Valeri Belokon. Without his case for unfair prejudice we would still be mostly boycotting under the Oyston yoke. Thank you Valeri.
However, his murky business record means that even if he was interested in putting his truly massive winnings into BFC (which he isnt btw), it would be a very bad idea indeed. Factamundo 2.
There is really no point in looking back in the hope that money could flow. It won't.
Phil_bfc deux
Well-known member
Yeah it's more than i thought to be honest
But it is a loan and he hasn't wrote it off
voyeur
Well-known member
That's just standard though isnt It?
The issue for me is how little he's got to show for his 23m. Exeter are above us with fan ownership and no such investment.
AmericanTangerine
Well-known member
He has a lot to show for it to be honest, concrete plans for training ground and new stadium, along with already tangible improvements to both stadium and current training ground.
The overall amount spent on wages and the squad has significantly improved since he came on board resulting in a playing squad that is significantly better than it has been before he did take over.
Also, the overall running of the club has been much more efficient and professional.
He doesn’t get everything right, but I think the £23m he’s spent has plenty to show for.
poolseasider
Well-known member
Isn't that what all owners do put money in as loans to avoid paying tax?
They all know they'll never get it back it will be written off at some point.
Problem is as fans we expect an owner to put in £2 when he does we want £4 then £8 whilst only putting in a £1 ourselves.
This should now be end of the debate Sadler is putting bigs sums into our club and as the Coventry fan who read it on BBC website said to me last night making us look a bit of a laughingstock.
Phil_bfc deux
Well-known member
Its the statement that has made us into a bit of a laughing stock and it wasn't needed
I would have preferred a statement regarding last season and what went wrong and how he plans to put it right this season along with what the long term plan is and the process for achieving it
poolseasider
Well-known member
Last season in the main was down to having bottom four budgets in the league how do we rectify it same as previous season decent coaching improving players and finding your Bowlers out there exactly what we've reverted to.
This statement was about the accusations of Sadler not putting money in which has proven to be utter bobbins.
Phil_bfc deux
Well-known member
He's only made the statement as we had a poor transfer window and he's a bit thin skinned about being questioned on stuff
BFC_BFC_BFC
Well-known member
They’re above us at the moment
It’s a long old season and I’d expect us to improve over the course of the season as the side starts to gel properly.
Also, think a lot of the money spent by SS to date has been for improvements to the stadium and facilities as well as layering the infrastructure within the club itself… Some of that won’t pay immediate dividends on the pitch.
I did a quick comparison yesterday of how we’d performed (average league position) since Sadler took over, when compared to the Teams who were with us in L1 at that time…. Only Coventry has significantly outperformed us and we came in 4th overall behind (Coventry, Sunderland & Rotherham) - Exeter would be miles behind us.
If we discount our first season back ( bearing in mind the shit show that was left behind by Oystons) only Sunderland and Coventry has faired better than Blackpool.
In terms of ‘attendance’ we’re averaging 7-12 places above our average attendance position.
There’s a lot to feel very positive about at this club when we take a step backwards… However some of our supporters (a small minority admittedly) seem determined to ignore all positives and are focused intently on pursuing their own agendas… unfortunately these individuals are detrimental to our club and have the potential to ruin things for us all.
poolseasider
Well-known member
Did we have a poor transfer window?
Norburn and Pennington are very good for this league yet to see Joseph and Rhodes looks class.
Morgan has shown glimpses and Weir as a loan is decent.
Phil_bfc deux
Well-known member
Exeter have something we don't have
And that's a thriving Academy that's produced several top players over the last few years that have all been sold on for massive profits
And that's a thriving Academy that's produced several top players over the last few years that have all been sold on for massive profits
Phil_bfc deux
Well-known member
I think the issue was more the final day after Critchley said he was expecting a few in
BFC_BFC_BFC
Well-known member
That just shows the extent of this Club’s ambition though. The fact that we have already done some fantastic business and yet we’re still looking to make further additions if possible.
The good thing this time is that those last minute signings would have been more about icing the cake….
The new recruitment team now has time to plan for January.
Toastrack
Well-known member
I'd say that up to the summer of 2022, with us finishing comfortably in the Championship and and two very saleable assets in Bowler & Yates, SS got a good return for his money.
It's last season's shitshow that's taken the gloss off.
But that's part of football, the jeopardy that means neither success or failure is guaranteed, regardless of how well a club is funded.
The Coates family has poured £338m into Stoke City, but they still get relegated from the Prem.
Steve Lansdown has put £240m into Bristol City, and they can't even get near the Prem.
Exeter develop players brilliantly. They're only a Cat3 academy, but there aren't many clubs in the south west so they have relatively little competition, and they cast their net widely with satellite academy sites as far as Dorset and Somerset.
With all the clubs in the north west, competition for young talent is much greater.
Which is why that new training ground is vital, to get Cat2 status, be a more attractive destination for young players, get regular fixtures against higher quality opposition and so develop players who can graduate to the first team quicker.
fcblackpool
Well-known member
The value would be higher in the c/ship than now, coupled with the decrease in income really does ask questions about last season.
I'd also be interested to see where the actual money has been spent, given there was natural football income.
As @Phil_bfc deux says he probably would have been better explaining last season, but that should have been done months ago.
On the loan and tax avoidance, I don't think it's a problem with the ongoing football side, but when it comes to the East and the TG(if?) the loans are likely to be very high and crippling if there were to be recalled (who knows what will happen in the future in a number of ways).
voyeur
Well-known member
I realise we may finish above Exeter (but equally we may not) but whatever happens they are doing similarly to us without the invested 25m we've had over 5 years. If I was Sadler I would or should be wondering why. The list of 18 players who left us after last season provides some solid clues.
Pros on good wages who rarely played like Garbutt Stewart Lubala Bridcutt.
Loan players who cost a lot but were wasted by inadequate managers.
And two academy lads are listed, representing a yourg system that again hasn't supplied a single player to our first team squad. Only Bolton and Wycombe in L1 also have no home developed players.
Exeter also survived Covid and they produce players that help fund the club. But they also seem to be far less wasteful with their squad budget. Maybe they have some expertise (across a group of people) that Sadler lacks?
Perhaps if Sadler wants to be sustainable he should look closely at the few clubs that are. Get someone to write a dossier.
Pros on good wages who rarely played like Garbutt Stewart Lubala Bridcutt.
Loan players who cost a lot but were wasted by inadequate managers.
And two academy lads are listed, representing a yourg system that again hasn't supplied a single player to our first team squad. Only Bolton and Wycombe in L1 also have no home developed players.
Exeter also survived Covid and they produce players that help fund the club. But they also seem to be far less wasteful with their squad budget. Maybe they have some expertise (across a group of people) that Sadler lacks?
Perhaps if Sadler wants to be sustainable he should look closely at the few clubs that are. Get someone to write a dossier.
voyeur
Well-known member
Good post.
20togo
Well-known member
yes, it is a good post but for a bit of counter balance if that's the right terminology, the north west is far more densely populated and there will be far more youngsters growing up in the area. As said, there are many clubs but equally so there are many youngsters who are discarded by the big clubs and I think it's been said often enough that one of our clubs strategies is to tap into the market of youngsters released by the big clubs. Of course we're then in competition with the lesser clubs but these youngsters will be then still be keen to get fixed up. And is it fair to say, that the youngsters don't necessarily look at the status of the academy, they look at the name of the club. For instance if Crewe,well renowned for development of youngsters, get some-ones vote over some-one like even PNE simply because their cat status may be higher. [don't know if it is or not,just an example.
Just thoughts that's all.
voyeur
Well-known member
Not a great post IMO. Concrete plans dont include any concrete. Or grass. Stadium and training ground improvements will have swallowed money but not that much out of 25m.
Spending on the playing squad is meaningless unless it achieves resukts and we are currently in Terry McPhillips territory.
"The overall running of the club has been much more efficient." Has it? How?
I'm in no way anti Sadler but for me there is a value for money problem and he needs to stem the flow of money on players who give little back. We could be better than we are, or as good, with less spending on players. And probably on men in suits too. We've had a business model that hasn't functioned anywhere near as well as it should.
So thanks for the money Simon, but let's get better at spending it. When it comes to people, in particular. The words "Appleton did a fantastic interview" still make me shudder. Bez Lubala, due diligence. Callum Wright, how planned was that? Kev Stewart contract extension. McCarthy, dragged off the golf course in his 70s after a year of grandkid duty. Never got out of grandad mode.
Expensive and very avoidable mistakes.
BFC_BFC_BFC
Well-known member
I’m inclined to wait until the end of the season, before drawing comparisons with any other clubs.
The comparisons that I have done, relate to actual final league standings and Blackpool have faired very well on average.
In some respects Blackpool has been a victim of our own success. Arguably the quick promotion to the Championship (possibly a season earlier than we might have expected) required additional investment, left us needing to offload some contracted players and meant that the standard for any incoming academy lads was much higher…
We’ve then essentially thrown money at trying to maintain our Championship status … with a couple of poor management choices..You can burn through money quickly in the Championship as the finances of those clubs demonstrate..
By comparison Exeter City have been dabbling at the shallow end of the pond….
Their Trust has been in charge 20 years ? So well established. (Sadler is only a few years in post)
They have pretty much averaged L2 during that time (some time in non league and a bit of time in L1)… So it’s not a massive step to accommodate academy players in the first team.
The cost of living in L2 is relatively cheap and so you’re not going to burn through cash etc..
So two markedly different roads travelled at this point in time..
The comparisons that I have done, relate to actual final league standings and Blackpool have faired very well on average.
In some respects Blackpool has been a victim of our own success. Arguably the quick promotion to the Championship (possibly a season earlier than we might have expected) required additional investment, left us needing to offload some contracted players and meant that the standard for any incoming academy lads was much higher…
We’ve then essentially thrown money at trying to maintain our Championship status … with a couple of poor management choices..You can burn through money quickly in the Championship as the finances of those clubs demonstrate..
By comparison Exeter City have been dabbling at the shallow end of the pond….
Their Trust has been in charge 20 years ? So well established. (Sadler is only a few years in post)
They have pretty much averaged L2 during that time (some time in non league and a bit of time in L1)… So it’s not a massive step to accommodate academy players in the first team.
The cost of living in L2 is relatively cheap and so you’re not going to burn through cash etc..
So two markedly different roads travelled at this point in time..
bollieboy
Well-known member
Loans for the infrastructure actually make more sense tax wise than loans for pure football side.
voyeur
Well-known member
It was only a loose comparison of current squads and league positions.
You're right that Exeter have lived in a much more affordable part of the pyramid in recent years. Clearly ahead of us on the academy front, some players have moved higher up for good fees.
It does highlight that trying to compete in the Championship is financially very challenging for us. And we need to avoid recruitment mistakes like those we have made if we want to punch above our weight. Or we drop back and compete with clubs that are better managed on smaller but sustainable budgets.
You're right that Exeter have lived in a much more affordable part of the pyramid in recent years. Clearly ahead of us on the academy front, some players have moved higher up for good fees.
It does highlight that trying to compete in the Championship is financially very challenging for us. And we need to avoid recruitment mistakes like those we have made if we want to punch above our weight. Or we drop back and compete with clubs that are better managed on smaller but sustainable budgets.
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poolseasider
Well-known member
The loans for infrastructure are to secure Sadlers money so if he decides to sell or someone comes in with an offer they ain't getting 50 million of building work for free.
At a guess SS will right most of it off over time.
JJpool
Well-known member
So one minute we're a club trying to live within our means according to some, the next we've got fans of other clubs saying the financial bubble will burst, like we're some sort of basket case club, when on the last accounts we were far closer to breaking even than most at that level 
So he's put 18 million in not including the cost of buying the club...
There were big losses during covid, well big but nothing compared to some clubs, but still.
Here's that info.
The next accounts for the first championship season show a profit, but only after an injection of 3.3 million. It's not really a good headline for the club as it appears profit is made yet it's not really, the casual fans read the headline and suddenly it becomes fact.
In the gazette it said...
"Addressing the group profit of £452,608, which was up from a loss of £5m the previous year, the club said: “To achieve this position, Blackpool Football Club Holdings was supplied with interest free, unsecured loans of £3.3m (down from £5.5m the previous year)."
"As of June 30, 2022, Seaside Holdings have provided £4.8m to the BFC group. Its director Simon Sadler has provided £16.16m, including the initial purchase of the group and its assets of £8.4m and a gift of £0.17m, with total tax reimbursements of £0.61m."
“Cumulative total funds received amount to £21.57m. This number is forecast to increase by £4m in the year 2023.”
Can someone lay this out in a better way? Adding up the losses from the covid seasons and the 1st year championship, we get to about 10m. With the final championship season left and the beginning of this one, it's a way to go to reach 18m. The last championship season, for which there aren't accounts yet, I'd imagine some big sums came in too.
Is anything being missed off here?
Yet on their other statement about the
cumulative funds and the amount put in including the purchase, it would make more sense to get to that 18m figure. Can anyone clarify?
Are there things thay don't show on the accounts that's he invested?
Anyway, you can see why someone, especially a fan, might be a bit annoyed when the amount it can cost is downplayed amd dismissed at times.
So he's put 18 million in not including the cost of buying the club...
There were big losses during covid, well big but nothing compared to some clubs, but still.
Here's that info.
The next accounts for the first championship season show a profit, but only after an injection of 3.3 million. It's not really a good headline for the club as it appears profit is made yet it's not really, the casual fans read the headline and suddenly it becomes fact.
In the gazette it said...
"Addressing the group profit of £452,608, which was up from a loss of £5m the previous year, the club said: “To achieve this position, Blackpool Football Club Holdings was supplied with interest free, unsecured loans of £3.3m (down from £5.5m the previous year)."
"As of June 30, 2022, Seaside Holdings have provided £4.8m to the BFC group. Its director Simon Sadler has provided £16.16m, including the initial purchase of the group and its assets of £8.4m and a gift of £0.17m, with total tax reimbursements of £0.61m."
“Cumulative total funds received amount to £21.57m. This number is forecast to increase by £4m in the year 2023.”
Can someone lay this out in a better way? Adding up the losses from the covid seasons and the 1st year championship, we get to about 10m. With the final championship season left and the beginning of this one, it's a way to go to reach 18m. The last championship season, for which there aren't accounts yet, I'd imagine some big sums came in too.
Is anything being missed off here?
Yet on their other statement about the
cumulative funds and the amount put in including the purchase, it would make more sense to get to that 18m figure. Can anyone clarify?
Are there things thay don't show on the accounts that's he invested?
Anyway, you can see why someone, especially a fan, might be a bit annoyed when the amount it can cost is downplayed amd dismissed at times.
fcblackpool
Well-known member
I can see that, I'm purely thinking of the loan that is coming being called in if something unexpected happens. Calling a football loan in would devalue the club and +/- may be counterproductive.
bollieboy
Well-known member
Calling in an infrastructure loan would have exactly the same effect. The risk of loan being recalled is the same whatever reason the loans are made for. Can't really see what your concern is.