Almost completely caused by humans

Shandypants said:
My mate has lived in London for the last 10 years and despite being in a highly paid job hasn't got a car as public transport is so good. The problem up north is the system is so poor, if we had a system half as good why would you need a car? I bloody hate driving and sooner chill out on a train all day long. I also walk a fair bit, averaging 6 miles a day, I never dream of jumping in the car for journeys less than a mile or two I'd sooner walk. I read that 50% of adults walk less than half a mile per day, thats utterly pathetic.
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TBH I would have thought that percentage to have been higher.
I bet the percentage in 16 to 25 year olds is even higher too.
 
Agree with Sooty about the younger generation, they seem worse than most on a personal level. TV ads claiming "we are the first generation to care", bollox!
I have been banging on about this since I first witnessed destruction of the barrier reef in the late 1980s when living in Queensland.
I lived in Germany in the 90s where recycling has been all but mandatory for 30 years. Came home with the same attitude and was laughed at because of this for years.
Walking to work this morning and a guy in his car with engine running for about 15 minutes while waiting for Costa to open. The area stank of carbon born fumes. He probably watched the news last night and thought "isn't that awful". That's what were dealing with 🙁
 
Matesrates said:
My post was of course fantasy, but there are millions in this country who don’t need a car for work and could find other ways of getting around. Look at the so called Chelsea tractors, mums driving a mile to drop their kids at school for example.

So unless you need it for work, you can’t have one. That solves your problem.
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i agree with you on some people i know drive to the shop they have to go on a one way route which takes about a mile and a half round trip unbelievable as the shop is only 300 yards walk
 
Don't get me started on the school run. I left school in 85. In a school of 1500 pupils you could count on one hand the number of kids dropped off in a car. Fast forward 35 yrs you can count on one hand the number of kids who walk or get public transport. WTF happened???
 
Shandypants said:
Don't get me started on the school run. I left school in 85. In a school of 1500 pupils you could count on one hand the number of kids dropped off in a car. Fast forward 35 yrs you can count on one hand the number of kids who walk or get public transport. WTF happened???
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I live a few houses away from a junior school.
I was walking home from an early doctors appointment and noticed an erratic woman screaming at her children to get in the car quick or they'd be late for school.
I couldn't believe it as I arrived at my house the woman was parked outside!!

She had travelled the vast distance of ONE street 🤦‍♂️

Not only are these school drop offs causing climate change but the kids health isn't benefiting from this either.
 
Wizzerboy said:
I live a few houses away from a junior school.
I was walking home from an early doctors appointment and noticed an erratic woman screaming at her children to get in the car quick or they'd be late for school.
I couldn't believe it as I arrived at my house the woman was parked outside!!

She had travelled the vast distance of ONE street 🤦‍♂️

Not only are these school drop offs causing climate change but the kids health isn't benefiting from this either.
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Vicky Pollard
 
Wizzerboy said:
AVFTT at its finest.

Folk on here saying go down to one car per family or even get rid of the car all together.

On another thread someone asking on the pros and cons of having a motor home!!
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But the carbon footprint of a few caravan/motor home trips, where you park up & travel on foot mostly as opposed to flying/car rental should be less. You can’t expect people to stop living. Legislation & pricing & an alternative solution, would be the only way, but can you imagine the reaction, FFS there’s been a shitstorm over vaccinations.
 
Well done all posters who have said they would start (or continue) to vote Green. Little by little the message will get through. Maybe in the university constituencies first: Lancaster, York, Gloucester for example. It doesn't need the Greens to have enough seats to form a Government, simply a large enough voice to pressurise the Tories, Labour & Lib Dems into shifting their focus.
 
Shandypants said:
I voted green last election but the first past the post system means voting green is pissing in the wind.
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In most regions voting for the opposition is pissing in the wind - look at how many seats have been Tory for decades.
I have zero faith in either of the 2 leading parties so even if I voted for them I’d feel it’s a waste of my vote.
Im going Green at next election as at least I register my dismay at the status quo and if enough people do the same, the tide might continue to rise over time (as it certainly will at this rate in a literal sense).

It’s a total clusterfuck. Too many people on the planet and too high an expectation of what others should do for them.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
To achieve something, everyone needs to change their behaviour, even if only a few tokens, The biggies are burning carbon in the big industrialed countries, but hundreds of millions of people making small changes will help.

Eat meat one day less a week. Walk more, its better for your health as well. Put on an extra layer rather than the heating, saves you money too. Shower rather than bath, saves even more money. Work from home if you're allowed.

Every journey starts with but a single step.
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All great, but when you're being told to expect a pay cut for working from home, 'because you're saving on the commute' it's hard to reconcile the mixed messaging from senior leaders.
 
Sooty59 said:
But the carbon footprint of a few caravan/motor home trips, where you park up & travel on foot mostly as opposed to flying/car rental should be less. You can’t expect people to stop living. Legislation & pricing & an alternative solution, would be the only way, but can you imagine the reaction, FFS there’s been a shitstorm over vaccinations.
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Your joking Motorhomes guzzle fuel and pulling a caravan doesn't do your MPG any good either and there's thousands on the roads.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
More than us not doing it.
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Really? How much more?

I worked out once that if I killed myself I'd possibly delay climate change by about 4 - 5 seconds, so any more marginal changes at a personal level are going to have an effect that is orders of magnitude lower to the extent that it is essentially immeasureable.

Personally I think if anything these sort of actions are counter productive, rather than have an adult conversation about energy strategy, mitigation measures, climate engineering and our role as a relatively small country in a world that includes China and India we're resorting to ritual behaviour that is about as effective as the power of prayer, we'll end up spending vast sums of money to achieve nothing, funds that could possibly have been put to far better use developing solutions that could be applied on a global scale.
 
Lost Seasider said:
Really? How much more?

I worked out once that if I killed myself I'd possibly delay climate change by about 4 - 5 seconds, so any more marginal changes at a personal level are going to have an effect that is orders of magnitude lower to the extent that it is essentially immeasureable.

Personally I think if anything these sort of actions are counter productive, rather than have an adult conversation about energy strategy, mitigation measures, climate engineering and our role as a relatively small country in a world that includes China and India we're resorting to ritual behaviour that is about as effective as the power of prayer, we'll end up spending vast sums of money to achieve nothing, funds that could possibly have been put to far better use developing solutions that could be applied on a global scale.
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No Lost, you're looking at individual efforts vs industrial vs trans-national strategic efforts. I'm saying that individuals should make their own commitments alongside these larger efforts. It will take all of these things to deliver any marked difference but rather than not doing anything personally because, "it is essentially immeasurable", my family will do what we can whilst hoping that others do likewise.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
No Lost, you're looking at individual efforts vs industrial vs trans-national strategic efforts. I'm saying that individuals should make their own commitments alongside these larger efforts. It will take all of these things to deliver any marked difference but rather than not doing anything personally because, "it is essentially immeasurable", my family will do what we can whilst hoping that others do likewise.
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What you are unwittingly doing is treating the whole thing into a religious cult, demanding ritual sacrifices to the climate gods in the vain hope that you'll be protected from the eternal damnation of climate change, it will do absolutely nothing to affect the climate regardless of how many individuals are involved or how committed they are and in the end is only being done so that they can feel good about themselves for "doing their part".

The reason I have a problem with this is that in a democratic system this kind of collective delusion has knock on effects on policy at the national and trans-national level, which means that instead of a well thought out response to a global problem policy instead tends to get built around the need to meet meaningless and ineffectual targets that in many cases are actually likely to be counterproductive.

Electric cars are one of the big topics at the moment, supposedly internal combustion won't be sold after 2030, but the reality is we have no way of generating enough electricity to power them and no way of distributing it if we did, renewable energy is another area where the benefits are far less clear cut than might be supposed, even CO2 emissions reduction targets can have the effect of increasing global CO2 output.

It's a complex area, and trying to reduce it down to "we must do our bit" probably in the end makes the situation worse.
 
Lost Seasider said:
What you are unwittingly doing is treating the whole thing into a religious cult, demanding ritual sacrifices to the climate gods in the vain hope that you'll be protected from the eternal damnation of climate change, it will do absolutely nothing to affect the climate regardless of how many individuals are involved or how committed they are and in the end is only being done so that they can feel good about themselves for "doing their part".
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I can't think of anything to say.....
 
Levi501 said:
Can’t disagree with that, plus the great unwashed will still look at the Greens as kranks, odd balls and hippy tree huggers! but we live in hope.
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Organic methods of growing were met with that same attitude back in the '70s and '80s look how popular it is now, maybe there is some hope for an attitude change.
 
seasiderjohn said:
Thats ok if your local and office based.
there is no direct public transport to where i work so i woud need to get a bus then 2 trains to work then walk which would make my commute time 2 and a half hours each way added to my day then when i get to work i then pick up people to take to job then have to drive to collect tools then drive to several different sites during the day then back to tip off then drop people back at base without a vehicle .So then I become unemployed great idea
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There will always be those who have a genuine need of their own transport, I used to work with a lady who did a 70-mile round trip, between work and home. Maybe we need to start thinking about employing people who live locally when possible rather than out of the area.
 
Sooty59 said:
It'll take a gigantic disaster to wake us up, by which time it'll be too late, to do anything worthwhile, so we'll just have to live with the consequences. What surprises me are the younger generations, they seem even more wasteful & given it's supposedly been drummed into them at school, that in itself is worrying.
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And that's the generation that's been preaching to us oldies about our attitudes and the damage WE have done! 😂
 
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1966_and_all_that said:
Not too far fetched actually. When I lived in London I gave up my car after a year because the public transport system was better for getting around.
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Everyone does not have the same thinking though' 66, take my daughter and son-in-law, for instance, he needs a car not so much for the distance he travels to work but because there is no direct public transport, but my daughter has a 10-minute bus ride and a short walk to where she works but she still insists on using her car to get there..................."it is more convenient" is the response when I question why she drives to work.
 
Shandypants said:
Don't get me started on the school run. I left school in 85. In a school of 1500 pupils you could count on one hand the number of kids dropped off in a car. Fast forward 35 yrs you can count on one hand the number of kids who walk or get public transport. WTF happened???
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Cheaper cars! When I was a kid we hardly saw one, I think about 3 or 4 people in our street owned cars and us kids were always playing in the street, no chance of that now.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
China actually produce less than half the emissions per head of population when compared to the US. We need them to take action, but the US needs to lead by example on this.
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China produces more per capita than the UK, and from a population 20 times the size, I don't think we can ignore them just on the basis of what the US does.
 
Lost Seasider said:
China produces more per capita than the UK, and from a population 20 times the size, I don't think we can ignore them just on the basis of what the US does.
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I’m not sure I said we could ignore them, but so long as the US continues to set a bad example, it makes it harder to persuade China to take action.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
I’m not sure I said we could ignore them, but so long as the US continues to set a bad example, it makes it harder to persuade China to take action.
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I doubt China gives a damn about what the US or the rest of the world does and they are not going to change course unless it's in their interests to do so, which it isn't.

It's important policy background, what's the point in trying to reduce our emissions when China (and India and other developing countries) are increasing theirs at a much faster rate? Would the vast amounts of treasure not be better utilised in areas that might have an actual effect on climate change?
 
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Lost Seasider said:
I doubt China gives a damn about what the US or the rest of the world does and they are not going to change course unless it's in their interests to do so, which it isn't.

It's important policy background, what's the point in trying to reduce our emmissions when China (and India and other developing countries) are increasing theirs at a much faster rate? Would the vast amounts of treasure not be better utilised in areas that might have an actual effect on climate change?
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At least it will slow it down......................hopefully until everybody sits up and take notice. But why should what other people do affect your choices to do the correct thing?
 
Sooty59 said:
What surprises me are the younger generations, they seem even more wasteful & given it's supposedly been drummed into them at school, that in itself is worrying.
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It's unbelievable watching youngsters dumping their rubbish on the beach. They seem to be far worse than their parents.
 
EagleDay said:
At least it will slow it down......................hopefully until everybody sits up and take notice.
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A policy based on hope, yeah........................

Also, slow it down, by how much? My best guess is you're talking weeks rather than years.


EagleDay said:
But why should what other people do affect your choices to do the correct thing?
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How do you know it is "the correct thing"?

Do you know if "the correct thing" is impacted by the actions of others?

Have you calculated the effect of "the correct thing"?

Have you calculated the effect of alternative policy responses?

Have you costed the various policy options and used that to calculate an optimum cost-effective policy response?

Have you considered the effect of the policy options on other countries, the effect upon their environmental emissions and the global climate effect as a whole?

And if you've done all of the above, why are you talking in simple phrases like "do the correct thing"?
 
Lost Seasider said:
I doubt China gives a damn about what the US or the rest of the world does and they are not going to change course unless it's in their interests to do so, which it isn't.

It's important policy background, what's the point in trying to reduce our emmissions when China (and India and other developing countries) are increasing theirs at a much faster rate? Would the vast amounts of treasure not be better utilised in areas that might have an actual effect on climate change?
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Of course China give a damn as does everyone else. It’s in our collective global interests to resolve the problem, however it is only reasonable to expect the burden to be shared equally and given that China and the US have competing economic interests, they have every right to look to the US.

At the end of the day, whether it is Africa, India, China or whoever, we all have a right to expect the same standard of living…The US doesn’t have some god given right to be fatter than everyone else.

The point in reducing our emissions is that we are a global leader and we need to set the highest possible standards for others to live up to.

You can basically make the “what’s the point” argument about action on a national or an individual level, but at the end of the day it’s just an excuse for inaction.

The whole point with reducing emissions is that it requires lots of small individual actions. Individual changes like 1966 referenced and you attempted to poo poo.
 
BFC_BFC_BFC said:
Of course China give a damn as does everyone else. It’s in our collective global interests to resolve the problem, however it is only reasonable to expect the burden to be shared equally and given that China and the US have competing economic interests, they have every right to look to the US.

At the end of the day, whether it is Africa, India, China or whoever, we all have a right to expect the same standard of living…The US doesn’t have some god given right to be fatter than everyone else.

The point in reducing our emissions is that we are a global leader and we need to set the highest possible standards for others to live up to.
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I suggest you have a think about how the government of China works and what their global aims are for the 21st century, I suspect you'll conclude that climate change does not appear terribly high upon the list.


BFC_BFC_BFC said:
You can basically make the “what’s the point” argument about action on a national or an individual level, but at the end of the day it’s just an excuse for inaction.
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I'd rather see it as a call to direct our efforts at areas likely to have a meaningful effect upon the future climate rather than waste our resources chasing pointless and ineffective targets for the sake of short term newspaper headlines and the small amount of political capital it generates.


BFC_BFC_BFC said:
The whole point with reducing emissions is that it requires lots of small individual actions. Individual changes like 1966 referenced and you attempted to poo poo.
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No, it takes massive investement into the research and development of new technologies that fundamentally change energy generation and the global economy into the 22nd century, investment in the order of hundreds of billions of dollars that can only be provided by governments and on a scale necessary to revolutionise the world.

Pretending that sacrificing your log burner as a burnt offering to the gods of climate change is going to make the slightest bit of difference is a distraction from the above and as such is likely to hamper efforts to fight climate change by diverting resources from where they can do the most good, to where they make us feel better.
 
The ‘Targets’ will be the driver for technological advancement, but I’m afraid we need to get used to the idea that the ‘consumer economy’ is done.

That means a transition to consumption based on reasonable need as opposed to the ongoing collection and proliferation of ‘shiny things’.

So switching off the log burner, taking less trips in the car, eating less meat etc..is precisely what people need to be doing….

We ain’t getting out of this by carrying on regardless and hoping for the elusive ‘clean energy’ - it doesn’t exist.
 
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Lost Seasider said:
I suggest you have a think about how the government of China works and what their global aims are for the 21st century, I suspect you'll conclude that climate change does not appear terribly high upon the list.
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World domination won't count for much if said world is on fire or flooded. Foolish comment.
 
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