And another one bites the dust.....

Phil_bfc deux said:
Like i keep saying there really isn't much difference between the Starmer Labour party and this Useless Tory party
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Anything has to be better than the current government. What we really need is a bigger swing to the left and a government that will genuinely attempt to improve lives for the majority rather than lining their own pockets and the pockets of their mates. I can live in hope….
 
She smells like a bit of a shady opportunist to me. Took over her husband’s constituency when he was charged with sexual assault and stood down - she was the only candidate on the Tories’ constituency list - and was elected in 2019. Then, after he was convicted and jailed for two years, she sold the story of her divorce to The Sun newspaper for £25k. Worked for nearly a year for a private housing company (set up by Cameron/Clegg) paying her £3k/month for just 8 hours per week.

And now crosses the floor to join Labour in the hope of protecting her 12k+ majority in Dover - is the deal that she will be adopted as the Labour candidate in the GE later this year? If so, Labour must have already selected a prospective parliamentary candidate though; I wonder how they feel?
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
It's funny how these MPs suddenly discover a conscience when the dole queue is beckoning.
I'll bet her voting record doesn't suggest 'Labour candidate'.
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Archibald Knox said:
She smells like a bit of an opportunist to me. Took over her husband’s constituency when he was charged with sexual assault and stood down - she was the only candidate on the Tories’ constituency list - and was elected in 2019. Then sold the story of her divorce to The Sun newspaper for £25k. Worked for nearly a year for a private housing company (set up by Cameron/Clegg) paying her £3k/month for just 8 hours per week.

And now crosses the floor to join Labour in the hope of protecting her 12k+ majority in Dover - is the deal that she will be adopted as the Labour candidate in the GE later this year? If so, Labour must have already selected a prospective parliamentary candidate though; I wonder how they feel?
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She is standing down at the next election - Dover to keep it's selected Labour candidate.
It does seem odd at this point - with only 6 months to go.
 
EdgeleyTangerine said:
Anything has to be better than the current government. What we really need is a bigger swing to the left and a government that will genuinely attempt to improve lives for the majority rather than lining their own pockets and the pockets of their mates. I can live in hope….
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I disagree completely with your first sentence, its got nothing to do with left or right and to be frank this Labour party certainly aren't left wing
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
I disagree completely with your first sentence, its got nothing to do with left or right and to be frank this Labour party certainly aren't left wing
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So you think the current government should remain in-situ? A government that has systematically eroded our standard of living?

I agree that current Labour Party probably isn’t enough but something has to change because we cannot continue with this conservative government.
 
Here's what Elphicke has to say about her decision to move to Labour:

From small boats to biosecurity, Rishi Sunak’s government is failing to keep our borders safe and secure. Lives are being lost in the English Channel while small boat arrivals are once again at record levels. It’s clear they have failed to keep our borders secure and cannot be trusted.

On housing, Rishi Sunak’s Government is now failing to build the homes we need. Last year saw the largest fall of new housing starts in England in a single year since the credit crunch. The manifesto committed to 300,000 homes next year – but only around half that number are now set to be built. Renters and leaseholders have been betrayed as manifesto pledges to end no fault evictions and abolish ground rents have not been delivered as promised.

The last couple of years have also seen a huge rise in homelessness, in temporary accommodation and rough sleeping - with record numbers of children now in temporary accommodation, without a secure roof over their head.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
She is standing down at the next election - Dover to keep it's selected Labour candidate.
It does seem odd at this point - with only 6 months to go.
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OK, I wasn’t sure so asked the question. Thanks for the update.
It does seem odd, I don’t understand how she benefits, unless it’s revenge against Sunak for some reason. Or, surprisingly for an MP, maybe she does have a conscience. As a qualified lawyer, with plenty of interest from housing associations and companies, I don’t think she will be on the dole though.
 
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Archibald Knox said:
OK, I wasn’t sure so asked the question. Thanks for the update.
It does seem odd, I don’t understand how she benefits, unless it’s revenge against Sunak for some reason. Or, surprisingly for an MP, maybe she has a conscience.
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Symbolism. With the local and mayoral elections still in people's minds this is the sort of gesture that makes a mark.
 
Archibald Knox said:
OK, I wasn’t sure so asked the question. Thanks for the update.
It does seem odd, I don’t understand how she benefits, unless it’s revenge against Sunak for some reason. Or, surprisingly for an MP, maybe she has a conscience.
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Maybe a deal has been done - I think she has worked in local housing authorities. Perhaps she will be appointed to some quango. The local Conservative association must be seething - they gave her a free hit. Her words against Sunak are also scathing, it looks like some score settling is going on there.
 
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1966_and_all_that said:
Here's what Elphicke has to say about her decision to move to Labour:

From small boats to biosecurity, Rishi Sunak’s government is failing to keep our borders safe and secure. Lives are being lost in the English Channel while small boat arrivals are once again at record levels. It’s clear they have failed to keep our borders secure and cannot be trusted.

On housing, Rishi Sunak’s Government is now failing to build the homes we need. Last year saw the largest fall of new housing starts in England in a single year since the credit crunch. The manifesto committed to 300,000 homes next year – but only around half that number are now set to be built. Renters and leaseholders have been betrayed as manifesto pledges to end no fault evictions and abolish ground rents have not been delivered as promised.

The last couple of years have also seen a huge rise in homelessness, in temporary accommodation and rough sleeping - with record numbers of children now in temporary accommodation, without a secure roof over their head.
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She's full of sh!te
 
Given the voting record of these Tory defectors, I'm surprised Starmer doesn't tell them to do one, particulalry as non are standing at the next election.
 
E
Phil_bfc deux said:
You do realise it was Labour who started the housing crisis and who also challenged the need to build new houses yet she has the cheek to blame her previous employers
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Employers? She wasn't in the Government.

Besides, the origins of the housing crisis lay in the 1980s privatisation of public social housing and the liberalisation of mortgage markets. The former massively reduced the availability of social housing whilst the latter forced many into the private rental sector. But then, you already knew that.
 
1966_and_all_that said:
E

Employers? She wasn't in the Government.

Besides, the origins of the housing crisis lay in the 1980s privatisation of public social housing and the liberalisation of mortgage markets. The former massively reduced the availability of social housing whilst the latter forced many into the private rental sector. But then, you already knew that.
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She still got a wage so yeah

Blairs legacy wasn't just taking us to war on lie causing the death of a million people it was the housing fiasco with the average wage 10 times lower than the average house price with people unable to get on the housing ladder

All this whilst Blair building a personal property portfolio of about £40 million quid

The country still hasn't recovered
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
She still got a wage so yeah

Blairs legacy wasn't just taking us to war on lie causing the death of a million people it was the housing fiasco with the average wage 10 times lower than the average house price with people unable to get on the housing ladder

All this whilst Blair building a personal property portfolio of about £40 million quid

The country still hasn't recovered
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As I said, the liberalisation of mortgage markets, courtesy of Thatcher. Oh, and Elphicke's wage is paid by the State because she is an MP. Her employer is the electorate of Dover.
 
Costero Poderoso said:
Same as the thatcherist Blair government. Starmer doesn't even have Blair's limited capability to lie with conviction.
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The difference between Blair and the Tory procession of PMs, is that despite all the bad stuff, he did get things done. Improvenments to the operation of the NHS, reduction in Child poverty, increase in average life expectancy, NI peace settlement.
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
Maybe a deal has been done - I think she has worked in local housing authorities. Perhaps she will be appointed to some quango. The local Conservative association must be seething - they gave her a free hit. Her words against Sunak are also scathing, it looks like some score settling is going on there.
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I pose a question here which I am not sure of the answer, or know if it’s the case here.

Who is worse?

A The person offering tax payers cash in the future for a deal to gain publicity today.

B The person accepting future tax payers cash to help someone gain publicity today.

C It’s politics and it is only tax payers cash so it does not matter.

D Both should be kicked out of politics for being corrupt.

Just asking for a friend 👍
 
Natalie Elphicke should have defected to Reform where she belongs she is not fit for the Labour Party, then again neither is Starmer. She isn't even a one nation Tory just a flat out right wing bar steward, I thought I was reading The Onion* when I first read about it.
*Other satirical websites are also available.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
The difference between Blair and the Tory procession of PMs, is that despite all the bad stuff, he did get things done. Improvenments to the operation of the NHS, reduction in Child poverty, increase in average life expectancy, NI peace settlement.
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Yeah tax increases and a failure to support the British manufacturing industry or small business
 
Tangerinemoss said:
The difference between Blair and the Tory procession of PMs, is that despite all the bad stuff, he did get things done. Improvenments to the operation of the NHS, reduction in Child poverty, increase in average life expectancy, NI peace settlement.
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Joined in an illegal war by knowingly presenting false information 👍
 
seasideone said:
I pose a question here which I am not sure of the answer, or know if it’s the case here.

Who is worse?

A The person offering tax payers cash in the future for a deal to gain publicity today.

B The person accepting future tax payers cash to help someone gain publicity today.

C It’s politics and it is only tax payers cash so it does not matter.

D Both should be kicked out of politics for being corrupt.

Just asking for a friend 👍
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We don't know a deal had been done. But it seems odd, I had her down as a right winger [not an extremist btw].
Let's see what happens, the timing was designed to damage Sunak. It could just be score settling within Conservative party.
Will there be more?
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
Yeah tax increases and a failure to support the British manufacturing industry or small business
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You're a card Phil, taxes are at a record high under the Tories and Thatcher did for manufacturing and thousands of small businesses. Everything wrong with this country economically is the fault of Tories and their crony capitalism. They don't know the likes of you and I exist.
 
She's defected to put pressure on Sunak as he's not extreme enough for her. As someone pointed out she belongs in the Reform Party. Starmer is guilty of opportunism. Come the election I won't be voting for any of the Charlatans.

I always preferred the Inspiral Carpets
 
seasideone said:
Joined in an illegal war by knowingly presenting false information 👍
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As I said, despite the bad stuff, and that was just one of them, he improved many basics of life for so many.

Remember when he got pelters for waiting times for a GP at 48 hours, treatment for cancer at a week and taking hundreds of thousands of kids out of poverty? Real growth in wages, national debt paid off until the World Banking crash, river pollution decreasing and fish stocks improving.

The lessons from history are that few are all bad or all good
 
ElBurroSinNombre said:
We don't know a deal had been done. But it seems odd, I had her down as a right winger [not an extremist btw].
Let's see what happens, the timing was designed to damage Sunak. It could just be score settling within Conservative party.
Will there be more?
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I agree we do not know if a deal happened.

I still post the question to you though?
 
Tangerinemoss said:
As I said, despite the bad stuff, and that was just one of them, he improved many basics of life for so many.

Remember when he got pelters for waiting times for a GP at 48 hours, treatment for cancer at a week and taking hundreds of thousands of kids out of poverty? Real growth in wages, national debt paid off until the World Banking crash, river pollution decreasing and fish stocks improving.

The lessons from history are that few are all bad or all good
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I agree few are all bad and few are all good.

Lying to everyone to join a war is pretty much down there with the worst of the worst things any politician could do though.

Bluntly, it’s indefensible under any circumstances and any other track record is pretty much immaterial to this.

He should be in prison for what he did, it was criminal and British service people lost their lives and limbs because of it.

FYI - I actually voted for him first time round.

I also do not blame them for the Financial crisis and I think Alastair Darling handled it about as well as anyone could.
 
seasideone said:
I agree few are all bad and few are all good.

Lying to everyone to join a war is pretty much down there with the worst of the worst things any politician could do though.

Bluntly, it’s indefensible under any circumstances and any other track record is pretty much immaterial to this.

He should be in prison for what he did, it was criminal and British service people lost their lives and limbs because of it.

FYI - I actually voted for him first time round.

I also do not blame them for the Financial crisis and I think Alastair Darling handled it about as well as anyone could.
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Fair points, but I wish we still could boast as a nation the same brilliant NHS, reducing poverty and environmental improvement. We really have gone backwards in so many ways in the last 14 years.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
Fair points, but I wish we still could boast as a nation the same brilliant NHS, reducing poverty and environmental improvement. We really have gone backwards in so many ways in the last 14 years.
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Not arguing that at all!

This government should be taken out and shot with Tony Blair - now that’s an extreme point of view 👍

BUT the reality is Gordon Browns economic policies did not work in the long term as they were fundamentally wrong, and IMHO didn’t take into consideration the real economic cycle.

Hence the return to debt to fuel things (under Labour) and the famous note.

In fairness to the Tories Covid did screw government finance and the economy - as well as the self inflicted wound of a stupid Brexit.
 
seasideone said:
Not arguing that at all!

This government should be taken out and shot with Tony Blair - now that’s an extreme point of view 👍

BUT the reality is Gordon Browns economic policies did not work in the long term as they were fundamentally wrong, and IMHO didn’t take into consideration the real economic cycle.

Hence the return to debt to fuel things (under Labour) and the famous note.

In fairness to the Tories Covid did screw government finance and the economy - as well as the self inflicted wound of a stupid Brexit.
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Factually incorrect. The paydown of National debt in the first 7 years of the Labour Government was only matched by Maggie selling the family silver, Brown did it on growth. The forecasts were always that debt would not be balanced over the economic cycle, but it was until the Banking Crisis. Darling spent a lot of money keeping the banks from going bust, and continuing large capital projects to provide a soft landing and avoid recession. He achieved that. The Tories then won a minority vote, got the LibDems onside, and immediately imposed austerity and put the country into recession. These are all matters of historical fact.

Please, not the old famous note. Someone as well read as yourself will know it has been an ongoing joke between Governments since first written by Reginald Maudling for Jim Callaghan in 1964
 
Phil_bfc deux said:
Wrong
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Not sure you are old enough to remember, Phil. I am, that Government decimated manufacturing as it was a hotbed of Union Activity, which was an anathema to her (or more correctly, Keith Joseph's) politics. Early 80's, driving round the north of England, places like Consett and Manchester were wastelands with staggering unemployment rates. Many of those places never recovered.
 
Tangerinemoss said:
Not sure you are old enough to remember, Phil. I am, that Government decimated manufacturing as it was a hotbed of Union Activity, which was an anathema to her (or more correctly, Keith Joseph's) politics. Early 80's, driving round the north of England, places like Consett and Manchester were wastelands with staggering unemployment rates. Many of those places never recovered.
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I'm not denying it didn't happen in the 80s as i know it did I'm also saying Blair also had a part to play when he was in charge
 
Tangerinemoss said:
Factually incorrect. The paydown of National debt in the first 7 years of the Labour Government was only matched by Maggie selling the family silver, Brown did it on growth. The forecasts were always that debt would not be balanced over the economic cycle, but it was until the Banking Crisis. Darling spent a lot of money keeping the banks from going bust, and continuing large capital projects to provide a soft landing and avoid recession. He achieved that. The Tories then won a minority vote, got the LibDems onside, and immediately imposed austerity and put the country into recession. These are all matters of historical fact.

Please, not the old famous note. Someone as well read as yourself will know it has been an ongoing joke between Governments since first written by Reginald Maudling for Jim Callaghan in 1964
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Not at all - will reply properly tomorrow as it’s now 3.00am here and off to bed.
 
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